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Go Home A Libertarian’s Lament: Why Ron Paul Is an Embarrassment...

POLITICS SEPTEMBER 2, 2011

A Libertarian’s Lament: Why Ron Paul Is an Embarrassment to the Creed

I don't put much stock in politicians, so I've only twice donated to political campaigns. In 2006, I tossed a few dollars at the Democrat running for Senate against the loathsome Rick Santorum. It could have been a three-headed goat, for all I cared, but Wikipedia says it was Bob Casey. (You're welcome, Bob.) And late in 2007, I gave $50 to Ron Paul. I was working at the time for the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, but it wasn't that I had any plans on voting for him. I liked the congressman’s anti-war rants in the 2007 GOP debates, not least because they made Rudy Giuliani delightfully apoplectic. So I chipped in.

Paul’s candidacy that year, as we all know, didn’t lead him to the White House or anywhere close. But he evidently wasn’t discouraged. Four years later, Paul is not only back on the campaign trail, he's doing better than ever in the polls. And I'll admit I still vibrate happily to his indignant disquisitions on foreign policy. (Why shouldn't Iran have nukes!) I just can't get myself to regret that $50 when I hear him say "blowback" in the vicinity of Mitt Romney.

Yet it irks me that, as far as most Americans are concerned, Ron Paul is the alpha and omega of the libertarian creed. If you were an evil genius determined to promote the idea that libertarianism is a morally dubious ideology of privilege poorly disguised as a doctrine of liberation, you'd be hard pressed to improve on Ron Paul.

Much of Paul's appeal comes from the impression he conveys of principled ideological coherence. Other Republican presidential aspirants are transparently pandering grab-bags of incoherent compromise. Ron Paul presents himself as a man of conviction devoted to liberty, plain and simple, who follows logic's lead and tells it plain. The problem is, often he’s not.

According to Paul's brand of libertarianism the inviolability of private property is the greater part of liberty. And Paul is crystal-clear about the policy implications of his philosophical convictions about property rights. As Paul writes in his 2009 book Liberty: A Manifesto, the income tax implies that "the government owns you, and graciously allows you to keep whatever percentage of the fruits of your labor it chooses." To Paul, the policy upshot is evident: "What we should work toward ... is abolishing the income tax and replacing it not with a national sales tax, but with nothing." Whatever you think of this, you can't accuse Paul of dancing around the issue. However, Paul is not so dogged in consistently applying his principles in other domains.

In the Appendix to his most recent book Liberty Defined, Paul usefully lists "The ten principles of a free society." First among these is the proposition that "Rights belong to individuals, not groups..." The second asserts that "All peaceful voluntary economic and social associations are permitted..." So, if groups have no rights, Americans as a group have no collective right to impede non-American individuals in the exercise of their rights to free movement and association (which, Paul insists, "derive from our nature and can neither be granted nor taken away by government"). These are principles that ought to lead straightaway to the conclusion that anything but a policy of open borders and open labor markets is violation of fundamental individual rights, and Paul does recognize this, sort of. "In the ideal libertarian world, borders would be blurred and open," he admits in the immigration of Liberty Defined.

But suddenly we find Paul dancing daintily around the policy sombrero. "Civilization,” he writes, “has not yet come even close to being capable of such a policy, though it engages in some historical discussion."

So when it comes to protecting the wealth of propertied Americans, Paul is an absolutist who will brook no compromise. Taxation is slavery! But when it comes to defending an equally basic, principled commitment to free immigration and unrestricted labor markets, Paul develops a keen sensitivity to complicated questions of feasibility, hemming and hawing his way to a convoluted compromise that would continue to affirm the systematic violation of the individual rights of foreigners who would like to live and work in America, and those of Americans who would like to live and work with them.

"I strongly believe in the principle of peaceful civil disobedience," Paul begins in a chapter on that subject. "Those who resist the state nonviolently, based on their own principles, deserve our support," he says. But when it comes to mostly poor foreigners who break immigration laws that straightforwardly violate Paul's own principles, the congressman can hardly summon a flicker of sympathy. "The toughest part of showing any compassion or tolerance to the illegal immigrants … is the tremendous encouragement it gives for more immigrants to come illegally and avoid the wait and bureaucracy," Paul writes. In other words, if we allow ourselves to go soft on brown people with bad English, even more of them may wish to exercise their "individual rights that derive from nature and cannot be granted or taken away by government."

As a rule, libertarians have an unhealthy tendency to apply their principles without due regard to America's history of state-enforced slavery, apartheid, and sexism, or to the many ways in which the legacy of these insidious practices persists to this day. Paul represents this tendency at his worst. The Civil Rights Act of 1964, Paul has argued, led to "a massive violation of the rights of private property and contract, which are the bedrocks of free society."

It’s hard to interpret Paul’s position on this matter in a kind light. During the last campaign season, James Kirchick revealed in the pages of this publication that in the late 1980s and early 1990s Paul had published newsletters under his name containing rank bigotry against African Americans and gays. Paul claimed he did not write the columns in question or even know about them. Whether you believe that or not, the newsletter scandal highlighted Paul's longstanding ties with figures, such as Lew Rockwell, with a history of catering to racist and nativist sentiments for political gain.

But let’s give Paul the benefit of the doubt, and assume his opposition to anti-discrimination legislation is a principled stand untainted by prejudice. Even then, it’s not so clear his stance is underwritten by his stated principles. Paul's third principle of a free society says that "Justly acquired property is privately owned by individuals and voluntary groups, and this ownership cannot be arbitrarily voided by governments." I follow Ron Paul enthusiasts in endorsing this principle wholeheartedly. Nevertheless, it's hard to say exactly what "justly acquired property" amounts to in a country built in no small part by slave labor on land stolen from indigenous people. How much of Thomas Jefferson's property was justly acquired?

These issues get complicated fast. Most of us think there's a sort of statute of limitation on the sins of our fathers, and for good reason. But it’s absolutely undeniable that the distribution of property and power in America partly reflects hundreds of years of constant and systemic violation of precisely those rights Paul claims to prize. Anti-discrimination legislation indeed puts some limits on rights to property and free association. But in light of America's cruel history of official social, legal, and economic inequality, it's hard to see these limits as "arbitrary," even if we want to pretend, for the sake of social peace, that the distribution of property reflects a history of mostly just acquisition.

Again, it appears that Paul is least tolerant of ambiguity and complexity when it muddies the case for protecting privilege. To deny that structural discrimination, with or without the backing of the state, can limit an individual's liberty more injuriously than a sales tax requires the triumph of dogmatism over commonsense. But Paul’s career is a case study of such bullheadedness. Not only does he deny that anti-discrimination statutes have anything to do with promoting liberty, he insists, again and again, that anti-discrimination policies have only heightened resentments between man and woman, black and white, and do nothing whatsoever to improve social amity. He would have us believe that the enormous gains over the past several decades in racial and gender equality, the dramatic rise of mixed-race marriages, and the happy detente in the gender wars have all occurred despite recent attempts to rectify centuries of legal oppression through law.

In any case, the philosophical basis of Paul's property-rights absolutism is mysterious. Like many libertarians, Paul sees ironclad property rights as a straightforward implication of the moral impermissibility of coercion in human affairs. But, of course, a system of property is itself a system of coercion. If I cannot waltz into your home, raid your fridge, and make myself a hoagie, it is because you might shoot at me or call the cops to drag me off at gunpoint. If you're like me, you think the enforcement of property rights through the use of violence, or the treat thereof, is justified. But it does need to be justified.

Here’s my best attempt: A system of secure property rights is conducive to a society of peaceful cooperation that benefits even the least among us. The important thing for libertarians to remember—and the thing that Ron Paul forgets, or, rather, never knew—is that a system of secure property rights is a means to a peaceful society of mutual benefit, not an end in itself. And there are other legitimate public goods beyond the police protection of property rights. The need to finance the provision of these goods can justifiably limit our property rights, just as a system of property can justifiably limit our right to free movement. The use of official coercion to collect necessary taxes is no more or less problematic than the use of official coercion to enforce claims to legitimate property.

Of course, those who suffer most from the absence of adequate public goods are the poor and powerless. So it’s sadly no surprise that this isn't one of those issues that compels Paul to consider the complexities of political practicability. What good are taxes anyway when, as Paul argues, “[t]he only people who benefit are the bureaucrats, and the special interest recipients of government spending programs”? Recipients like poor kids who go to public schools.

Thanks to Ron Paul, libertarianism of a certain stripe may be more popular than ever, and its influence on the Tea Party and the broader conservative movement is not hard to see. All the same, this brand of libertarianism is never going to "cross the chasm," as the marketing folks like to say. It's destined to remain a minority creed, and that’s not because most Americans are stupid or immoral. It’s because libertarians have done a terrible job countering the widespread suspicion that theirs is a uselessly abstract ideology of privilege for socially obtuse adolescent white guys. Ron Paul sure isn't helping.

Will Wilkinson blogs about American politics for The Economist. He lives in Iowa City. 

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46 comments

Excellent! This is why I subscribe.

- Sancho

September 2, 2011 at 12:55am

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Somewhat convoluted, but W.W., my hostility towards you has decreased slightly. Ron Paul's so-called libertarianism is just not well thought-out enough to hang as a coherent system. A better name for it is palaeo-palaeo-conservatism. Straight-up palaeo-conservatism is the isolationist old school of Buchanan. It traces its origins back to the Henry Cabot Lodge response to the League of Nations. It was the prevailing Republican sentiment between the world wars, and was muscled out in the 1950s by both World War II and the Eisenhower presidency. As a result, I define double palaeo-conservatism as the standard that existed before the Spanish-American War. It harkens back to a world where contract rights were supreme (the ideological soil for the Lochner era cases in the early 1900s) and people fought over federal impositions like the Interstate Commerce Act and the Sherman Antitrust Act. The Radical Republicans had faded from prominence with the end of Reconstruction and the re-admission of the southern states put a severe damper on the growing power of the federal government. This is one of the reasons why Wilkinson should be dismayed but not entirely surprised at Ron Paul's positions: he is a historically peculiar conservative, rather than a true libertarian.

- chaitless

September 2, 2011 at 1:41am

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To me, libertarianism is like organic farming, there's something to be said for its principles, but they won't feed the world.

- Nusholtz

September 2, 2011 at 2:07am

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Don't feel bad about Ron Paul. Even without him, I am quite convinced that libertarianism is a "uselessly abstract ideology of privilege for socially obtuse adolescent white guys and much, much worse." Turns out that the only function I can see for libertarianism is to dress up various morally repellent views with a veneer of abstract ideology, and most of the people I know who hold those views lately have come to think of themselves as libertarians. On the polite end of the spectrum, we have the Cato Institute itself whose principal undertaking is to champion a crackpot version of economics because it purportedly justifies the morally repellent views of libertarians. Come to think of it, Ron Paul is making you guys look good. The willingness even occasionally to consider effects, outcomes, and not just the conclusions compelled by useless and abstract ideology is a good thing.

- roidubouloi

September 2, 2011 at 6:39am

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What a witty, delightful voice - very refreshing from the turgid, self righteous gluck most politicos force on us. Really enjoyed the piece. I'd say as a writer, just take the "not taking yourself too seriously" vibe up a notch and you'd have a real contribution to make to political journalism (such that it is).

- WandreyCer

September 2, 2011 at 9:04am

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Even though your political views are fantasy, of course (but anyone who hates Santorum carries alot of weight with me).

- WandreyCer

September 2, 2011 at 9:06am

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My son who is wealthy recently declared himself a proud Libertarian. I quietly told him where his money came from. He is a very good person but he sometimes fails to see that his privileged life is just that and can't be used as the basis for a just and fair society.

- paskunac

September 2, 2011 at 9:14am

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Good job, Will. The hysterical and at times infuriating assumption of bad faith on the part of the left won't come to an end because of thoughtful libertal-tarians like yourself. But, the ones who continue to assume that we're all purely racists will look dumber and more desperate the more you, Julian Sanchez and Dave Weigel keep writing.

- travis

September 2, 2011 at 9:32am

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Sorry, it's hard to take seriously someone whose attraction to Ron Paul was driven by, oh, "Why do anything about nuclear proliferation?" Having an engaged and aggressive foreign policy isn't just, "Oh, warmongering!" and wanting a world with fewer nuclear weapons and no more nuclear powers is not a bad thing.

- Crock1701

September 2, 2011 at 10:45am

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travis, I don't get your point. Pointing out the Paul is a crackpot is easy enough, it doesn't, in itself, lead to an affirmative case for Libertarianism. In a world of 7 billion people, and growing, depleting resources, a degrading environment, a greater and greater wealth gap between rich and poor Libertarianism is nothing but a childish wish that the world can not afford. If a Libertarian creates an interstellar spacecraft and opens up the Universe to exploration, then maybe we can indulge in such fantasies, until then Libertarians are essentially the enemy of the earth.

- blackton

September 2, 2011 at 10:50am

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I'm with Roi. It's not Ron Paul who is an embarrassment to Libertarianism; its the philosophy itself. A very basic question is "how do I prevent my neighbour from dumping a pile of manure on my driveway?", the answer to which is "... well ... we need *some* rules". Whoops. That been said, I have no problems with people protesting (and eventually getting overturned) senseless rules (licensing etc). However you don't need to be a Libertarian to do that.

- Nari224

September 2, 2011 at 10:51am

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This is the best piece I've seen in TNR in months. I also like the commenter's comparison with organic farming. Nicely put

- gwcross

September 2, 2011 at 11:23am

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"The important thing for libertarians to remember—and the thing that Ron Paul forgets, or, rather, never knew—is that a system of secure property rights is a means to a peaceful society of mutual benefit, not an end in itself." A peaceful society of mutual benefit. Mutual benefit. I suppose Paul would say that the coercive power of the state may be used only to protect fundamental rights, including property rights, that mutual benefit may well be a byproduct of doing so but it cannot be an end in itself; that natural law (the Creator), not the state, confers fundamental rights, and fundamental rights are individual not collective rights ("rights belong to individuals, not groups..."). Yet, a word count of the Declaration of Independence would reveal that "our" and "us" appear the most often, and "me" and "my" don't appear at all.

- rayward

September 2, 2011 at 12:29pm

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"the idea that libertarianism is a morally dubious ideology of privilege poorly disguised as a doctrine of liberation" Like it or not, this is what Libertarianism is. When you atomize society to the individual level in all things, it will always always always benefit those who have at the expense of the have-nots. One of the few ways that the less-privileged members of our society can assert their Constitutionally-derived rights is through collective action - strikes, protests, class action lawsuits, petition, and civil disobedience. Viewing society exclusively through the lens of the individual is to deny that these things have legitimacy. How liberating is that to the average person? Libertarianism is nothing more than the privileged believing that they shouldn't have to be bothered worrying about these meddling plebes. This is the "liberty" that they seek, the liberty from social responsibility.

- tealeaves

September 2, 2011 at 2:05pm

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Roi for President. I cannot believe any thinking person gives Ron Paul money, ever; or supports the Libertarian philosophy. Especially in a so-called democracy. The end.

- Sophia

September 2, 2011 at 3:11pm

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Oh man this is SO bad - I had to link it - registering poor people to vote is unAmerican? Is this a paean to the Libertarian screed or is it just plain hateful? Or both? http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/09/registering_the_poor_to_vote_is_un-american.html

- Sophia

September 2, 2011 at 3:14pm

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The ideal of Liberty is not constrained by arguments against it by people who engage in worst case scenario, take it to the most extreme extension kind of rhetoric. I voted for Ron Paul in a presidential election, forget which one, but agree wholeheartedly with Will's excellent critique of his principal intellectual flaw. As Keynes wrote to Hayek after reading "The Road to Serfdom" on the way to Breton Woods: "A grand book. Morally and philosophically I find myself in agreement with virtually the whole of it; and not just agreement but deeply moved agreement." Keynes went on to write, "You agree that a line has to be drawn somewhere, and that the logical extreme is not possible." We're still trying to figure out where to draw that line.

- Robert Powell

September 2, 2011 at 3:36pm

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Thanks (???) Sophia - that article displays how very anti-democracy the priviledged can be. Democracy actually means that everyone gets to vote, not just those who agree with you. So I must abide by the tea-party vote and tea-partiers must allow even those without a job to vote. I have had some sympathy with libertarians myself, off and on. I do think it is like organic farming. Farming should be as organic as possible and politics should be done to maximize liberty. The fact that both are hard to do should not eclipse the ideals. But libertarians lost me in that they simply cannot account for children. According to their theory, children are private property until eighteen and can have no rights (except life) that with the state they enforce against their parents. Then the parents drop all responsibilty for them, even if the children are disabled. This struck me as so perverse and unnatural, that how can this be any kind of true theory? Liberty requires responsibility and responsibilty requires, alas, oversight. "To secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." Oh well, I've gone on too long again.

- polijunky

September 2, 2011 at 3:50pm

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We face a greater danger from the unraveling of the American state today, thanks to the Republican Party, Tea Party subdivision, and delusional libertarians. It protects our property and liberties. Drug lords, jihadists, some foreign states, and right wing oligarchs would like to undermine the US government that limits their freedom of action.

- amidut

September 2, 2011 at 4:08pm

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Unobstructed liberty is what keeps our profitable private prisons full.

- Weston

September 2, 2011 at 4:20pm

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Uh Weston, I wouldn't try that shtick on anyone whose pensions were nuked in a criminally unregulated marketplace (Oregon Gas and Electric, in just one example). Also, the concept of a "pension" at all anymore is a quaint anachronism thanks to "unreconstructed liberty," whatever that means. No one has pensions anymore. "Unreconstructed liberty" means nothing. It is a phrase that is nothing more than empty, sloganistic SOMA for the Fox News idiot masses, especially in this context - anyone using it, please provide an explicit example of how it plays out in your lives and how government restricts you from it - details only pllease. You want to be China? If so - just admit it. If not - wake up.

- WandreyCer

September 2, 2011 at 4:52pm

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Right wing ideologues use ideas as weapons not as principles. No one should take Ron Paul’s idea seriously enough to want to refute them logically. The best way to fight Ron Paul is politically since his ideals are part of a larger ideology.

- arnon

September 2, 2011 at 5:26pm

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Sophia, Great catch. The article you posted and especially the comments below it demonstrate perfectly the trouble with libertarians and Libertarianism. They're solely interested in being free of the influence of "vagrants" and "scoundrels" (to quote but two of them, in reference to the poor) and the commenters were almost invariably in favor of returning to a system where only property owners would be able to vote. This is quite nearly the very antithesis of egalitarian democracy and, yet, we get authors like Wilkinson attempting to claim that this poisonous ideology is benign and even beneficial. It's time for you to open your eyes, Will.

- tealeaves

September 2, 2011 at 5:43pm

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It all has to do with the drawing of lines. Several commentators get at this. There's the quote of Keynes to Hayek and the insightful remarks about organic farming. Point is: (1) the goal is liberty, (2) the means are not perfectly known, (3) the rules for setting the means, dynamically, are rules of democracy. Democracy will set the bar short of the perfect goal. It typically does this for good reason (i.e.: property has not always been acquired with perfect justice). That causes libertarians to see democracy as opposing the perfect principles of liberty and insofar as they perceive it that way, they are actually anti-democratic. One imagines when arguing with a libertarian that if they could have an all-powerful emperor, but one who could be relied upon to adhere perfectly to libertarian philosophy, then this would be a more desirable polity than democracy. A curious feature of libertarians, especially under the influence of Ayn Rand and especially as cultivated by the Tea Party, is the bedrock conviction that the corporate free market justly allocates wages. That this isn't true seems to be a flat on its face fact. At very least it is a wholly unproven proposition. Neither fact seems effective in deterring these groups, their leaders or thinkers. That needs to be our lesson though: no appeal to reason works. We are dealing with principles combined with thick dollups of sentiment and blind-spots both applied in equal measures, so that the principles are obscured. That principles are applied in unequal purity such that privilege is protected: sentiment. That liberty of any measure is fairly innovative, and historical injustices are largely to credit for present distributions of resources: blind-spot. Add to that years of listening to Limbaugh, Hanity, etc repeating the principles, sentiments and blind spots over and over again and there's no penetrating it. I wish I had a good answer for it, I just know that reasoned argumentation is not enough.

- dcwood10

September 2, 2011 at 6:17pm

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I doubt that even Hayek would have endorsed Ron Paul's mindless and inconsistent libertarianism. There are so many things wrong with this ideology that even at its most articulate (and Paul is hardly that) it unable to account for most of what people and how they live. To follow, Paul's logic one should not only be against government but also against all large business and corporations. I doubt he will ever get the nomination, much less get elected, but that so many support him is really maddening. Many of the people who support him probably don't even know what libertarianism is: what fools these mortals be.

- arnon

September 2, 2011 at 6:39pm

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Ron Paul has to protect his gold portfolio. A conflict of interest?

- amidut

September 2, 2011 at 6:58pm

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Class war is about to return. News at 11 pm.

- skahn

September 2, 2011 at 7:22pm

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It's already here, Skahn.

- arnon

September 2, 2011 at 7:28pm

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And, as an antedote to said class warfare, let us celebrate Labor Day! http://www.borowitzreport.com/2011/09/02/labor-day-officially-moved-to-china/

- Sophia

September 2, 2011 at 9:17pm

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The comments on the American Thinker piece linked by sophia are truly frightening, but they are the true face of libertarianism in practice.

- roidubouloi

September 2, 2011 at 11:38pm

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There is no such thing as "libertarianism in practice". This is similar to the perfect state of communism which is achieved when the State (somehow) "withers away", and everyone lives happily ever after. C'mon people, we're talking philosophy here, not politics. Ron Paul's shortcomings as a messenger, and the corruption of libertarian ideals by hacks like Santorum or DeLay & Co., should not detract from the very important and valid points made about how people can, do, and might organize themselves made by people like Kropotkin and Hayek.

- Robert Powell

September 3, 2011 at 7:57am

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Your analogy to communism is perfect. Marxism foresees an ideal world, a perfect state. The reality of communism is brutality. Libertarianism too imagines an ideal state. The reality, even from small doses, but certainly as expressed by the adherents in their comments to the American Thinker pieces, is brutality. There really is not a shred of difference between libertarianism and, "Might makes right," except that the libertarians are careful to consider the power of violence only (not every other sort of power) to be the monopoly of the state. Once those with money have all the power, this is a distinction without a difference as they own the state and its monopoly on violence and can reliably be expected to use that monopoly to enforce their monopoly. With the Citizens United case, we are well on our way to libertarian hell. The libertarian daydream is in the end indistinguishable from the communist daydream. Liberalism must be the enemy of both.

- roidubouloi

September 3, 2011 at 9:53am

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Absolutely roi. And if you get a chance to read Hayek, you'll see that he's as liberal as it gets. As Keynes pointed out it's all about where we draw the line. The State should be in the business of protecting individual liberties from the depredations of monopolistic corporate bureaucracy and groups operating out of unconstitutional frameworks like racism. But there is also no doubt that once a state crosses a certain line it becomes a predator too, and one that operates by demoralizing its increasingly dependent serfs. So far, people have realized that this line was crossed in retrospect, when it has been too late.

- Robert Powell

September 3, 2011 at 1:16pm

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Ummm - define "increasingly dependent serfs," please. Would that be retired people? Unemployed people? What about the working poor who depend upon food stamps to feed their kids because their homes are now underwater due to circumstances entirely beyond their control? What about the young who can't find work, any work in this economy? The government isn't preying upon them. I know who is and it isn't the government, unless you see the government as belonging solely to the rich and the corporations; many of whom spout Libertarian nonsense while crippling their fellow citizens and polluting the atmosphere in the name of "freedom."

- Sophia

September 3, 2011 at 1:36pm

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"Ron Paul's shortcomings as a messenger, and the corruption of libertarian ideals by hacks like Santorum or DeLay & Co., should not detract from the very important and valid points made about how people can, do, and might organize themselves made by people like Kropotkin and Hayek." Last time I read Mutual Aid, I didn't see Kropotkin as a libertarian of any kind. One might with more justice refer to him as an anarchist socialist. Libertarianism is about individualism while Kropotkin was about mutual aid in society which is to say small groups of people engaging in cooperative existence. This is a far cry from the individualism of libertarianism.

- arnon

September 3, 2011 at 3:59pm

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It's probably not worth the trouble to get bogged down too much in labels--anarcho-syndicalist, anarcho-libertarian, etc. As you know, arnon, Kropotkin had a "bottom up" perspective that placed most emphasis on the local community and abhored the coercive centralized state, which is why he fell out with the socialists at the Second International. He was right, they were wrong, and if you don't want to call his thinking "libertarian" you must admit that it's at least compatable. At the end of the day responsible libertarians, and I include Will Wilkerson in that group while definitely excluding yahoos like the one linked above by Sophia, are not fanatical individualists. Virtually all of their thoughts on reform focus on the local community and voluntary associations rather than pure lone-wolf individualism. I think it's a useful perspective, and certainly needed in a time when many people seem to assume that a dollar sent to Washington is automatically a dollar spent on the public good--clearly not the case. Some things done by the Feds is certainly necessary, but I can think of a very great deal that is not.

- Robert Powell

September 4, 2011 at 6:18am

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Nusholtz and others--the comparison to organic farming is unwarranted, though the put-down is repeated often by people who should know better. Organic farming is scalable and by design sustainable; it would out-compete "conventional" techo-ag in a heartbeat if the latter weren't subsidized both directly and by stealing unrenewable resources (topsoil, vast quantites of natural gas for fertilizer) from the future. Just because the early adopters are boutique operations, doesn't mean it is inherently small-scale.

- jhigbie

September 4, 2011 at 12:57pm

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"responsible libertarians . . .are not fanatical individualists" But they are. The types you describe are exactly as rare as these people who supposedly believe that any dollar sent to Washington is automatically a dollar spent on the public good. When have liberals professed anything other than that empirical results, not ideology, should be, ultimately, the only guide to policy? That is what distinguishes liberals from the communist radicals of the left and the increasingly radical libertarian right. Libertarianism is no more useful a perspective than communism. Both absolutist and absolutely as indifferent to reality when it differs from what the ideology claims "must" be the outcome.

- roidubouloi

September 4, 2011 at 1:03pm

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"When have liberals professed anything other than that empirical results..." Economic stimulus? Regardless, to make an empirical evaluation, one must have a figure of merit. For Libertarians, it seems to be "maximize an individuals freedom to choose." I'm still not sure what it is for the Liberals. "Buy the most votes?"

- karlwk

September 4, 2011 at 11:59pm

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Thanks karlwk. Right you are. Or, as Tocqueville's prediction of the "new kind of servitude" when: "...after having thus successively taken each member of the community in its powerful grasp, and fashioned him at will, the supreme power then extends its arm over the whole community. It covers the surface of society with a network of small complicated rules, minute and uniform, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate to rise above the crowd. The will of man is not shattered but softened, bent and guided; men are seldom forced by it to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting. Such a power does not destroy, but it prevents existence; it does not tyrannize, but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to be nothing better than a flock of timid and industrial animals, of which government is the shepherd. I have always thought that servitude of the regular, quiet, and gentle kind which I have just described might be combined more easily than is commonly believed with some of the outward forms of freedom and that it might even establish itself under the wing of the sovereignty of the people."

- Robert Powell

September 5, 2011 at 3:56am

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Too bad, karl, you are not following along the debate about the stimulus here: http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/94517/obama-vs-the-left-stimulus Before it was enacted, Paul Krugman estimated that it would reduce unemployment by, at most 1.7%, and was less than a third the size of what was necessary, in part because loaded up with tax cuts that are inefficient as stimulus, being to a large extent saved rather than spent. In the event, unemployment was reduced by 1.3% from its peak to its lowest point, 8.8%, before it started to rise again. Empirical enough for you? Or is it indeed the fault of liberals or empiricism that we have a government in the grip of right-wing libertarian fanatics aided by the de facto requirement of an unconstitutional 60-vote majority in the Senate? Lovely quote by Tocqueville, but it describes the reality of the very right-wing libertarian hell in which the vast majority are to be industrial animals so that a handful of plutocrats can be "free." And here is what we get: "As Lewis acknowledges in his prologue, this is actually the end of a story that he started many years ago with Liar’s Poker, a brilliant description of the corporate culture in Salomon Brothers, the great bond trading house of the 1980s. What seemed extreme to Lewis (and his readers) at Salomon became totally mainstream on Wall Street during the next two decades. The rules were swept aside—typically at the behest of people who were making monstrous amounts of money trading bonds—and the movement of smart types into finance became a flood. This (mis)allocation of talent flows out of Liar’s Poker, into Patterson’s story, and then back into The Big Short. The problem is not just that “efficient markets” turn out to be an oxymoron. It is also that “for profit” companies are not necessarily better run than—say—the Pentagon during the 1960s. People in the private sector are trying to advance their own careers, and their fame, just like McNamara’s generals. We are almost all gaming the system, in some sense—it’s just that some of us have acquired a much greater ability to damage other people along the way. And quantitative finance involves great complexity—in the form of both subtle mathematics and vast quantities of digital data. The idea is simple: to find value where others do not detect it, by squeezing out returns while not taking on extra risks. But it is awfully easy just to load up on risk, take the cash returns today, and let someone else worry about the consequences tomorrow." Simon Johnson, right here at TNR http://www.tnr.com/book/review/the-worst-and-the-brightest Yet another case of the extreme freedom for a few leading to oppression and loss for the many. No matter. Libertarians True Believers will continue to believe in their ideological religion no matter how much evidence accumulates that it is hogwash. Just like the communists.

- roidubouloi

September 5, 2011 at 7:57am

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"Paul Krugman estimated... tax cuts that are inefficient as stimulus, being... spent" As I recall, an awful lot of Liberals voted for that silliness. "Estimated" is the key word in the quote. I bet I could quote some other learned economist who'd "estimate" that nearly any attempt at stimulus is doomed to fail. I don't deny Keynes had a point, but it is difficult to come up with gov't spending that will fix the fundamental problem, namely that a certain percentage of the population's work is no longer needed. Instantly creating productive work for them is difficult. Spending on deferred infrastructure or military procurement is viable, but I'm not sure it could pick up the slack enough for such a big housing bust. Economics isn't my specialty, but I do wonder if a big part of the problem isn't the very concept of banks: a mutual fund in which it is impossible to loose principle. Twenty years back when I looked over some Libertarian literature, I recall a fellow named Rothbard proposing more flexible schemes for money. I don't know if any school of economics carries that theme. I see here many Liberals picking on the Libertarians for "ideology." As I noted above, I'm still not sure how Liberals define themselves. Sadly, my sarcastic "buy the most votes" comment many times seems closest to the truth.

- karlwk

September 5, 2011 at 1:39pm

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Tocqueville's point is exactly opposite of the one you draw, Roi. He is saying that it is the power of the state, even in a democracy, which has a tendency to stultify the population, an outcome he finds abhorrent. Libertarians generally agree with him, that state power should be limited, so as to allow the broadest range of individual choice, as karlwk mentioned. This is not remotely close to the notion of communist nirvana where the state withers. If you believe libertarians are really anarchists, then you are mistaken. You may not like it, but the constitution is the best example, perhaps even the basis, of libertarian thought in the US. Simplified, keep the federal government as small as possible because it is the greatest threat to individual liberty. Obviously, as Lincoln made clear, there is such a thing as too small. I agree that libertarian governance is almost an oxymoron, but that does not mean that libertarian thought should not play a major role in our democracy. Vouchers for example allow society to provide services while maximizing individual choice while limiting the power of the state as an intermediary. Maybe not to your liking, but certainy worthy of debate.

- ds111

September 5, 2011 at 1:58pm

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"There is nothing in the basic principles of liberalism to make it a stationary creed; there are no hard-and-fast rules fixed once and for all. The fundamental principle that in the ordering of our affairs we should make as much use as possible of the spontaneous forces of society, and resort as little as possible to coercion, is capable of an infinite variety of applications." Hayek

- Robert Powell

September 5, 2011 at 3:30pm

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How can a political movement based on a third rate philosopher plagiarism and misinterpretation of the original have any political future. It appeals for a while to some college students to lazy to really read the original and utilize the little grey matter they still have that have not been burned by too many brew's. Libertarians are so passé!

- Poupic

September 11, 2011 at 6:33pm

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Ron Paul believes that the US is at fault in our struggle with Islamofascist terrorism. He is a crank, a traitor and a fool. His views on foreign policy are identical with those of the neo-Stalinists who write for The Nation magazine. The "libertarianism" of Ron Paul we must hope is passé. The realist libertarianism of Frederic von Hayek, Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher is a light unto the ages.

- bulbman1066

September 16, 2011 at 12:07am

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