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POLITICS FEBRUARY 29, 2012

Friends of Syria: Obama, Clinton, the Saudi King, All Pusillanimous, One Worse Than the Other

I know that this is harsh. But I use the word pusillanimous in its ugliest meaning—which is the “unmanly” meaning—especially in relation to Saudi Arabia, having stockpiled weapons and trained soldiers for decades so that by now it is the only Arab country capable of taking on the monstrous regime in Damascus … and winning. I say “unmanly” because the kingdom has done nothing of the sort. “For sure,” as the Arabs say in their English, it is wholly a man’s country, ugly and unnatural in any depiction of a crowd, actually camouflaged, and thus preposterous in its laws, mores, culture, and presentation of self. Of course, there are women in the country and they can do nothing for or by themselves, save if they are foreigners when servitude is their lot, like foreigners who are men. In fact, servitude is the only guarantor of gender equality in the kingdom. 

Now, the military is a proud lot, mostly deriving from the fact that a Saudi royal (graduate of Sandhurst, Prince Khaled bin Sultan bin Abd Al Aziz, the nomenclature denoting him as a grandson of the founder of the kingdom, son of the late defense minister and one of thousands of princelings) was commander of the coalition of the so-so allies, including Syria (!), which freed Kuwait from Saddam Hussein’s Iraq in 1991. OK, maybe Norman Schwarzkopf was really commander of Desert Storm. But let’s not quibble. The monarchy also scurried to arms when, during the last year, no Arab force was completely excused from warfare, and the Saudis eagerly took up the cause of the minority Sunni rulers of Bahrain, one sheikh to another, against the vast majority of Shia who are their subjects. And, to be sure, our country patrols the Persian Gulf against what soon may be a very mischievous flotilla of Iranian soldiers and sailors, to say nothing of terrorists who roam the seas already.

Saudi Arabia took the initiative in the Arab League to demand and command that Bashar Al Assad cease the brutalization of the Sunni majority dispersed among the country’s pastiche of minorities. The League designated a certified brutalizer himself—the Sudanese architect of the Sudanese genocide—to bring calm, or such calm as one can imagine to a country that is nowhere near a nation state. Anyway, this seedy initiative increased the killing … and it is increasing still.

Saudi Arabia and the League have not given up, however. The ongoing official murders continue, and the rebels have also certainly not given up. Of course, there is more and more division in the ranks, in all the ranks. Truly ugly allies like Hamas, the premier Sunni organization among exiled Palestinians, which had been sheltered from Israel by Assad, walked out on their long-term savior. And in Haifa, Israeli-Arab citizens, perhaps 500 of them, demonstrated for Assad; nobody bothered them. So there is little clarity in the big Arab street running from Tunis to Baghdad via Beirut, where Hassan Nasrallah and Hezbollah, his armed mob, is still a force deeply allied with Assad. What you make of the lopsided dictator’s vote for his new Syrian constitution is what you make of it. But remember that Stalin won his elections to “beloved leader” with somewhere between 97 percent and 99 percent.

The evidence for the lingering animus, the intensifying animus for Assad of the other Arabs is still in the League. It has drafted Kofi Annan to be its interlocutor with the murderous brute. But the choice of Annan to negotiate the end of a bloodbath or work in some other manner to do so is, I am sorry to say, a grotesque joke. No man or woman in “progressive” officialdom, and surely no international civil servant, has a record of such aversion to evidence of deliberate butchery as this elegant African aristocrat, honored Park Avenue dinner guest par excellence, first in Rwanda where a million Tutsis were wiped out, next in Srebenica where the U.N. simply permitted thousands of Bosnian Muslims to be slaughtered by the military forces of Christian Serbia. (Allow me to intrude to say something personal: In retrospect, The New Republic was probably the most significant voice in persuading the Clinton administration to save the remaining Muslims from sure death at the hands of an army of the Cross. Look at our collection of essays, The Black Book of Bosnia, for heavy evidence of this proud claim.)

Annan is a man of dutiful patina but without a functioning conscience, and his shocking designation as the healer of the Syrian catastrophe will bring no good. Isn’t the whole Annan enterprise premised on a diplomatic (i.e., a negotiated) solution? This would leave the murderer in power. Which rebellious Syrians would countenance that? 

As it happens, Annan has dealt with Assad before, actually as his intermittent interlocutor with Israel when—wouldn’t you know it?—as secretary general he was trying to persuade Jerusalem that Damascus is an honest partner for peace. Isn’t it tiresome by now, as the Arab world—to say nothing of the Muslim world—is at its most combustible in modern history, that missionaries and messengers are still trying to persuade the Jewish state to cede perilous principles and critical cartography to a reckless and fissured pair of political revolutions? Certainly no one can even assure the internal stability or the peacefulness of the Palestinians. So, in this regard, where is Salam Fayyad, the most recent great hope for comity in fractured Palestine?

I have it on excellent authority that it was Saudi Arabia which in desperation forced on the Arab League the retention of Annan. Someone more honest would be too exotic for its members to bear. But it is a fact that, for whatever reason, Riyadh had hoped that America would take the initiative on Syria, given especially that the French (who have historic ties in the country, having dethroned Faisal I from being king of Damascus and having the British crowning him king of Baghdad) had cleared up any insinuations that they might do to Assad what they did to Qaddafi. Well, the U.S. was not ready for this kind of leadership. And neither was the kingdom. 

Which brings me back to the pusillanimity of the Saudis. Just the other day, the U.S. Department of Defense announced that it will sell to Riyadh 84 additional latest model Boeing F-16 jets and upgraded 70 F-15 jets. They are not yet in the Arabian Desert. But there are already so many aircraft, tanks, reconnaissance vehicles, and rocket launchers available and ready for work that one wonders why the monarch waits. Sixteen operation prepared military airfields etc. This equipment puts more than 200,000 full-time soldiers as a potential threat. Why shouldn’t they be a real threat to Syria? They could get to Damascus within hours, passing through Jordan, which the Assads have always despised. Anyway, King Abdullah could not refuse a request from Riyadh and he wouldn’t want to. But the Hashemites are not the obstacle. It is the al-Saud who are. And given the four decades of family tyranny and mass murder in Syria, the reluctance of the most powerful Arab state, the most powerful monarchy in the world, to take out these killers is what I said at the beginning: pusillanimity.

I’m afraid that President Obama is also pusillanimous on this matter. Now, this should not be surprising. The president is not touched, not touched at all by mass violations of human dignity. Moreover, he is not touched by mass takings of human life … anywhere. I dare my readers to challenge this dismal assertion. And the fact is that the world of American progressives, the world we used to call “liberal,” is also not stirred by the killing of Arabs by other Arabs. (Or, for that matter, the killing of Christians by Muslims. Or Muslims by Muslims. But let Israel kill an old Hamas chieftain, Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh, guilty of murdering dozens, and the international press goes haywire for months. Look this up anywhere.) God knows, I recall the pierced looks I got from friends in 1958 when I told them that my girlfriend and I had visited Franco Spain.  

Now, Obama knows that he has to say something about Syria. And he has. He may also have done something … but nothing meaningful and surely nothing stunning. Yes, of course, he doesn’t like Assad, at least not now, after months and months of humiliating courtship. Here is his latest pronouncement: shabby, flabby, and inconclusive:

All of us seeing the terrible pictures coming out of Syria and Homs recently recognize that it is absolutely imperative for the international community to rally in sending a clear message to President Assad that it is time for a transition. 

Terrible pictures, recently , absolutely imperative, international community, rally, clear message, time for a transition! These are the words of a trimmer. And trimming like this in these circumstances is also pusillanimous.

I am afraid that Hillary Clinton is the most repellent of the trimmers, the coarsest and finally just plain odious in her blaming innocent and unprotected Syrians for not walking into lines of random and directed fire. Our secretary of state was in Rabat, Morocco on February 26. She gave three interviews: The first was with Kim Ghattas of the BBC. I am asking you to read it.

The second entretien was by Elise Labatt of CNN. Please read this one, as well.

Her third colloquy was with Wyatt Andrews of CBS. Somehow, it is the most revealing of her moral clamminess. Her arrogance. Her unwillingness to take responsibility for her own and the president’s failed policies. Blame it on the victims. Here it is in full:

QUESTION: Madam Secretary, good morning.

SECRETARY CLINTON: Good morning.

QUESTION: Thank you for doing this. Let’s get right to Syria, please. I know and respect that you think the Friends of Syria Conference on Friday was a success. But the shelling continues. I don’t think we have any evidence that humanitarian aid is going in as the conference demanded. So on what level exactly was the conference a success?

SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, Wyatt, perhaps I take a longer view than some in looking at the way that, again, the Arab League has led, which has been one of the most remarkable developments in the last year that they would take positions against fellow Arab nations on behalf of the aspirations that we all hold for the Arab Spring. The fact that so many other countries were present and all speaking with one voice – this is not to be, I think, diminished in terms of its importance. It doesn’t mean that we aren’t deeply distressed by what has continued.

QUESTION: But the world is united. I take your point, but what does that do?

SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, except that – well –

QUESTION: What does that do?

SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I think it does several things. Sometimes, overturning brutal regimes takes time and costs lives. I wish it weren’t so. I really, really do. I wish that those around Assad would realize that it may not be tomorrow, may not be next week, but they’re done. I wish the military that serves that regime would quit staining their own honor and stand up for the rights of the Syrian people. I wish the businesspeople who are still sitting on the fence would realize that they’re going to be so tightly sanctioned that it’s going to be a big price for them to pay and so on. Because it’s not just one man; it is a regime. And we think that we’re putting a lot of pressure on that regime, and that there will be a breaking point. And we think that the regime itself is dishonoring who they are and what they stand for. They don’t represent the Syrian people anymore; they represent a family, maybe the Ba’ath Party, a small group of insiders.

And so we’re – we are pushing this day by day. But they also have very, very strong friends, if you look at Russia, China, and Iran, who are in there determined to keep Assad because he does their bidding, he buys their arms, he sells them oil. This is as clear a contrast between the values that the world now is embracing and the past.

QUESTION: But on the point of the pressure and the pressure you’re trying to apply, our correspondent in Syria yesterday was interviewing some of the people still being shelled in Homs, and there was a poignant moment in this interview where this man says, who is under the shelling, says, “Where are you, Friends of Syria?”

SECRETARY CLINTON: Right.

QUESTION: He specifically mentions the conflict. He says Baba Amr – that’s the suburb of Homs –

SECRETARY CLINTON: The – right.

QUESTION: – is being shelled as if you did not exist, that – meaning the Friends of Syria Conference.

SECRETARY CLINTON: Right.

QUESTION: Does he have a point?

SECRETARY CLINTON: Of course he has a point, and I am deeply, deeply distressed for the people that he represents who are trapped under this artillery bombardment. But the problem for everyone is you have a ruthless regime using heavy artillery and tanks that are war weapons of the greatest impact against defenseless people. So there will be – and I’ve said this before – there will be those who are going to find ways to arm these Syrians who are under attack. But even if they are given automatic weapons against tanks, against heavy artillery, the slaughter will go on.

And what I’m at – I’m wondering is what about the people in Damascus, what about the people in Aleppo? Don’t they know that their fellow Syrian men, women, and children are being slaughtered by their government? What are they going to do about it? When are they going to start pulling the props out from under this illegitimate regime?

QUESTION: You’re sending a message to them?

SECRETARY CLINTON: Yes, I am.

QUESTION: The Administration made a point this week of suggesting that if Assad does not step down, does not stop the violence, that the U.S. would consider additional measures. Talk to me. What are the additional measures?

SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I’m not going to go into that, Wyatt. I think we did signal that this kind of wanton violence is just unacceptable. There are countries that are much closer with a much greater stake in the neighborhood who are looking at what they might do. Obviously, we are talking with them to see whether they intend to take action and whether they need any kind of logistical or other support, but no decisions have been made.

QUESTION: You’re suggesting nonlethal support? Or are you suggesting that the United States may support the closet backchannel arming of the rebels that’s going on now?

SECRETARY CLINTON: We have made no decisions to do any of the above. We are in consultations with others who are watching this as we are watching it, and trying to determine what more can be done.

QUESTION: When I go back to the plight of the folks being shelled and who are very plaintive in their requests of the international community to be stronger, the question is: How long does the killing go on before the additional measures you’re talking about kick in?

SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I think, Wyatt, if you take just a moment to imagine all the terrible conflicts that go on in the world, we have seen in the last 15 years millions of people killed in the Eastern Congo in the most brutal, terrible, despicable ways. It wasn’t on TV. There were no Skype-ing from the jungles that were the killing fields. And I could point to many other places where governments oppress people, where governments are turning against their own people. And you have to be very clear-eyed about what is possible and what the consequences of anything you might wish to do could be.

I am incredibly sympathetic to the calls that somebody do something. But it is also important to stop and ask what that is and who’s going to do it and how capable anybody is of doing it. And I like to get to the second, third, and fourth order questions, and those are very difficult ones.

QUESTION: The U.S. has repeatedly said that it’s reluctant to support the direct arming of the dissidents. The U.S. has been reluctant to arm the dissidents. Why?

SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, first of all, we really don’t know who it is that would be armed. We have met some of the people from the Syrian National Council. They’re not inside Syria. This is not Libya, where you had a base of operations in Benghazi, where you had people who were representing the entire opposition to Libya, who were on the road meeting with me rather constantly, meeting with others. You could get your arms around what it is you were being asked to do and with whom. We don’t have any clarity on that. We –

QUESTION: But what’s the – Madam Secretary, what’s the fear?

SECRETARY CLINTON: Well –

QUESTION: On the ground, what is the fear –

SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, first –

QUESTION: – of arming the rebels?

SECRETARY CLINTON: First of all, as I just said, what are we going to arm them with, and against what? You’re not going to bring tanks over the borders of Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan. That’s not going to happen.

So maybe at the best, you can smuggle in automatic weapons, maybe some other weapons that you could get in. To whom, where do you go? You can’t get into Homs. Where do you go? And to whom are you delivering them? We know al-Qaida. Zawahiri is supporting the opposition in Syria. Are we supporting al-Qaida in Syria? Hamas is now supporting the opposition. Are we supporting Hamas in Syria?

So I think, Wyatt, despite the great pleas that we hear from those people who are being ruthlessly assaulted by Assad, you don’t see uprisings across Syria the way you did in Libya. You don’t see militias forming in places where the Syrian military is not trying to get to Homs. You don’t see that, Wyatt. So if you’re a military planner or if you’re a Secretary of State and you’re trying to figure out, do you have the elements of an opposition that is actually viable, we don’t see that. We see immense human suffering that is heartbreaking and a stain on the honor of those security forces who are doing it.

QUESTION: We’re out of time, but thank you.

SECRETARY CLINTON: Thank you.

Martin Peretz is editor-in-chief emeritus of The New Republic.

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64 comments

"I am afraid that Hillary Clinton is the most repellent of the trimmers, the coarsest and finally just plain odious in her blaming innocent and unprotected Syrians for not walking into lines of random and directed fire." Peretz has been blaming Hillary for everything since the day she snubbed him at a party.

- arnon1

February 29, 2012 at 12:08am

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Mr. Peretz doesn't understand diplomacy (which includes the actions of American presidents) that well. Obama could do just the right thing in Peretz's eyes against Assad, and then 10 minutes later the whole thing could blow up, even if Assad loses power. Peretz takes an extremely localized view of a lunatic asylum that is the Middle East. A diplomat or a president can't make crazy people sane. Every time a dictator is taken down in the madhouse, his replacement is as bad or worse. Obama and America can't save the world. Not even God seems to be able to do that.

- magboy47.

February 29, 2012 at 1:08am

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Right, and two minutes after that ten minutes Marty would be loudly excoriating Obama for having endangered Israel with his ill-advised policies.

- ironyroad

February 29, 2012 at 1:38am

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Hillary sounded quite reasonable in that interview. Peretz's affected sympathy for the Syrian people is about as bullshit as it gets. Dependably despicable - thanks for being a putrid beacon of consistency, scumbag.

- alphprol

February 29, 2012 at 2:17am

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Yeah, all of the above is true. With respect to Marty, whose passion I understand, it isn't clear exactly how we are supposed to proceed and also, I doubt that Obama doesn't care; indeed I am sure he does. However, whereas it is true we have enormous destructive power and could decimate Syria with a few B-52's, within a very short time, rebuilding the nation and empowering the people, free of other dictators and ongoing civil violence, is apparently not within our power, or NATO's. MAYBE the Arab League could do something but I doubt it: state-building is a virtually impossible task especially in the modern Middle East. With Syria, we have a country that was dug out of the Ottoman Empire by the British, acquired an Arabian king, who subsequently wound up as King of Iraq after a battle with France; the borders of which were created by Britain and France in the Sykes-Picot Treaty; which didn't make sense to begin with; and is now ruled by a western-educated dictator whose political party was, I think, established by agents of Vichy France. Then we had the Cold War and Syria was involved in several wars including against Israel, in a partnership with Egypt, and Syria I think at one point fought on the same side as Israel during the Lebanese Civil War, and presently finds itself aligned with Iran. You know what? If Marty has an idea what we should do about this, I wish he would say so.

- Sophia

February 29, 2012 at 2:27am

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Required reading. Neighbors of Syria a primer from Al Jazeera. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/02/201222613517197680.html

- JAIMECHUCH

February 29, 2012 at 4:07am

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Every day this week, Marty has laid a stinking turd on the otherwise respectable pages of this periodical. Tell us, please, what manly acts have you ever performed in your coddled, self-satisfied life? Sitting on your fat ass enviously complaining about those who chose to actually serve something in life beside their own petty urges doesn't strike me as masculine in the least.

- bunthorne

February 29, 2012 at 6:13am

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You know what wouldn't be pussilanimous? Marty parachuting into Syria to lead the Free Syrian Army against Assad's tyranny. I'm probably not the only one here who wishes that he finally did something like this. If all goes well, it would lead to some great on-the-ground journalism about the civil war in Syria. If all doesn't go well, it would spare us ever again having to read drivel like this article.

- wildboy

February 29, 2012 at 9:28am

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Obama and Clinton are correct in avoiding direct intervention in Syria. Yes, Syria is a tragedy, but a very multi-faceted one. Syria, a country, not a nation, is the result of British and French artifice a century ago after they destroyed Ottoman power in the region. It was held together through tremendous violence. Peretz and TNR haven't thought through the goals and strategies of the intervention they seek. If I had children in the US military, I would not want to send them out on a poorly defined mission.

- amidut

February 29, 2012 at 9:34am

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' “For sure,” as the Arabs say in their English...' Mr Peretz, are you actively seeking to goad people into calling you a bigot? Do you suppose that you have a more legitimate claim on the English language than an Arab? Do you not recognize that millions, perhaps billions, of non-Arabs use "for sure" all the time? Have you ever listened to the song "Valley Girl" by Moon Unit Zappa? How would you characterize a person who said, "'Fo sho,' as the Negroes say in their English"? Does any current or past editor at TNR ever tell you that you are a total embarrassment and that your baleful influence has turned this once superlative publication into a shadow of its former self?

- AaronW

February 29, 2012 at 9:38am

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I hate to admit it. I think exactly like Clinton I despise. We know who Assad is and so far, beside arming Hitzbollah and Hamas he did nothing against Israel for years. He is the devil we know. Arming the opposition we do not know at all might be Al Qaeda or the Muslim Brotherhood we know too well. Sorry to read that you supported screwing our old ally the Serbs who had been exterminated with the Jews of Yugoslavia in Concentration camps manned by exactly the Muslims of Bosnia and Kosovo. For the first time in history the Serbs were on top and you took the side that had oppress the Serbs for a very long time.

- Poupic

February 29, 2012 at 9:40am

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I hate to admit it. I think exactly like Clinton I despise. We know who Assad is and so far, beside arming Hitzbollah and Hamas he did nothing against Israel for years. He is the devil we know. Arming the opposition we do not know at all might be Al Qaeda or the Muslim Brotherhood we know too well. Sorry to read that you supported screwing our old ally the Serbs who had been exterminated with the Jews of Yugoslavia in Concentration camps manned by exactly the Muslims of Bosnia and Kosovo. For the first time in history the Serbs were on top and you took the side that had oppress the Serbs for a very long time.

- Poupic

February 29, 2012 at 9:40am

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"Have you ever listened to the song "Valley Girl" by Moon Unit Zappa?" Aaron, surely you know that Moon Unit was part-Arab herself, thanks to her dad Frank Zappa being partly Arab. Clearly whatever the Zappas ever said or did has been tainted by their Arab-ness in Marty's eyes.

- wildboy

February 29, 2012 at 10:05am

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Never, even in the days of "Muslim life is cheap, especially to Muslims", have I seen a Peretz piece without a single positive comment beneath it. You finally did it, Marty. You made your last supporters give up. Here's hoping the State of Israel doesn't follow your example.

- Shorpe

February 29, 2012 at 10:13am

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Peretz's two favourite bugbears, Muslims and Inattentive Negroes, all rolled up into one - an article more or less par for the course. Because he really is on a bit of a rant this past week, first with those lip-licking columns on attacking Iran and now with this. Off his meds, or does he just have a hot date?

- SMacEachern2

February 29, 2012 at 10:32am

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Look at a freaking map Marty, doesn't Israel actually border Syria? Can they not dispatch Assad in a matter of hours? If Clinton, Obama, the King of Saudi Arabia are somehow complicit in the slaughter because they do nothing, then how come Israel, the country that freaking borders Syria, not complicit? I am not criticizing Israel for not doing anything, I am just pointing out the insane inconsistency of Peretz. Saudi Arabia is supposed to invade Jordon to get to Syria??? And what is their rational for war besides their fellow co-religionists are dying? I have no idea what the proper response in Syria is. If Israel took out Assad I would support it, if it doesn't I have absolutely no reason to criticize it. Hey Marty, I know you are too old, why don't you send in your children to fight (or grandchildren)? Oh, right. It is for the lesser humans to do the fighting, not for elites the like of you.

- blackton

February 29, 2012 at 10:41am

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In case if Noga comes, here is a variation on her Yiddish tale, with a very different meaning: Here is a variation on that tale: A Polish Jewish peasant owes a powerful landowner, a good sum of money. Yankel somehow convinces the landowner to forgive the debt if he, the Jew, can teach a bear how to pray. Faced with the need to produce results, Yankel obtains a cub and hands him a prayer-book with a drop of honey on its cover and on each of the book's pages. The bear wipes up the first drop of honey with its paw and puts it on his tongue. Bright bear that he is, he opens the book and locates and eats the other drops of honey too. The next day, Yankel gives Boo-Boo the same prayer book, this time with a drop of honey only on every other page. The bear, with a murmur of disappointment at each page bearing only words, still manages to service his sweet tooth from the others. The following day the honey is only on random pages. The bear goes through the book, wiping up what drops of sweetness he finds and licking his paw, murmuring all the rest of the time. The Jew is now ready. Presenting the cub to the poritz, he declares the animal synagogue-worthy and hands him the here-and-there-honeyed prayer book. The bear opens it, turns a few pages, murmuring all the while, then stops a minute to lick his finger before resuming the page-turning and murmuring. The poritz is not impressed. "That's not praying," he says sternly. "Come with me," says the Jew, leading the poritz to the local synagogue. Morning services are underway and the Jew opens the door. Lo and behold, the poritz gazes upon an entire congregation of supplicants doing an excellent imitation of the bear. The poritz has no choice but to forgive the debt.

- blackton

February 29, 2012 at 10:51am

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by the way, that little story was related by Rabbi Avi Shafran, director of public affairs for Agudath Israel of America.

- blackton

February 29, 2012 at 10:56am

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AaronW: “For sure,” as the Arabs say in their English...' I think Aaron you misunderstand the saying. I think that Peretz refer to the Arab tendency to speak one thing in English and a completely different thing in Arabic. This is not bigotry, this is a fact.

- rmakover@swbell.net-OLD

February 29, 2012 at 11:22am

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blackton: "Look at a freaking map Marty, doesn't Israel actually border Syria? Can they not dispatch Assad in a matter of hours?" Come on blackton, don't be naive. Israel cannot do anything to Assad without some severe repercussions. Israel's touch is a toxic touch that will forever stain the resistance.

- rmakover@swbell.net-OLD

February 29, 2012 at 11:26am

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makover, you did read the rest of what I wrote, right? Somehow though it is ok for the US to do it though? It is not like the US has any negatives in the world right? What Muslim could possibly hold anything against the US? As to Israel, it already has a toxic touch so it can do whatever it wants and it could get rid of Assad right quick. And what repercussions can they face that they don't already face? What, the Palestinians will throw the rocks a little bit harder? Or pray harder when they launch their rockets? Hell, if they could get rid of Iranian nuclear scientists with impunity, they very well can get rid of Assad. A car bomb nearby where he is could be from anyone, the US, the insurgents. But I don't expect Israel to do anything, this is the key point. Marty expects the US though to face who the hell knows what kind of hornets nest by getting involved in Syria. And he bizarrely expects Saudi Arabia to invade Jordan to invade Syria. That is just nuts. I don't have a freaking clue what to do in Syria. Anyone who can claim we can get involved and everything turn out wonderful is flat out bonkers.

- blackton

February 29, 2012 at 11:37am

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amidut: Peretz and TNR haven't thought through the goals and strategies of the intervention they seek. If I had children in the US military, I would not want to send them out on a poorly defined mission. Amen to that. I am a hawk, I supported the war in Libya, Afghanistan, and Iraq (I think the execution was horrendous, not the goal of getting rid of the cancer that was Saddam) but Amidut is right. Syria is a mess. Has it ever been a real nation?

- blackton

February 29, 2012 at 11:51am

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This is the very last article by Marty I will read. Its unfortunate, as idiotic as what he writes typically is it has spawned some great conversations on these boards. But from now on I'm sticking to Tim, Alec, John, Noam, et al. Mazel, everybody.

- Tristan

February 29, 2012 at 11:55am

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You have to understand, it's far better to be George W. Bush and grimly call out "hey, bring it on" when you don't know what's going to be brought on. That's presidential leadership, apparently. Start a large war that you don't know how to finish.

- ironyroad

February 29, 2012 at 12:06pm

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blackton: I didn't say the US should do anything. I think the US should let the Syrians and the Arabs take care of this problem.

- rmakover@swbell.net-OLD

February 29, 2012 at 1:37pm

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I'm here with those for their reasons given above who think Hillary Clinton sounded reasonable in that interview and that Peretz is full of disingenuous bluster and quite sincere impotent rage at... Well I'm not sure at what, but it's apparently an old story with him.

- basman

February 29, 2012 at 1:49pm

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makover, I think the US should let the Syrians and the Arabs take care of this problem. And I agree, just as long as we know the Arabs won't actually do anything. My own view is that the Arabs and Turks can secretly fund the resistance, that a long lasting insurgency will bring the regime down because 10% of the people can't forever rule. Look at how the insurgency bled us dry in Iraq and Afghanistan. When Syrian fanatics start blowing themselves up in Damascus, when regional governor or mayor after another gets killed, eventually Assad will either die or flee,and be a Syrian baby doc and live his life out in Iran

- blackton

February 29, 2012 at 2:21pm

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wildboy, I did not know that about the Zappas, however inasmuch as in "VG" Moon Unit was not singing about herself but mocking the speech patterns of Anglo Californians, I think the song's relevance to my point holds up. makeover, leaving aside whether it frees you from charges to bigotry to make the general claim that Arabs more than other bilingual people say one thing in English and another in their native tongues, for your interpretation to hold up, Marty would have to have gotten rid of the word "their". "'For sure', as the Arabs say in English. The "their"--italicized--snidely implies that Arabs speak an English that is different from and inferior to Marty's. I grew up in the American South around a lot of black people, and I saw first hand the way that differences in everyday speech can be used as instruments of bigotry and racial ridicule. What Peretz showed us here is right in line with that.

- AaronW

February 29, 2012 at 3:02pm

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The question I increasingly ask myself is How will I know when I am too old to engage in some of the activities I have pursued for many years? Will I have the sense to know when to stop?. I agree with Blackton's comment: I don't have a freaking clue what to do in Syria. Anyone who can claim we can get involved and everything turn out wonderful is flat out bonkers. I probably can still make my way out to the chicken yard and check for eggs without getting lost. If you don't get another comment from me by tomorrow, I will probably be lost. If you do get another comment from me by tomorrow, you can tell me if I am too old and too demented to continue posting comments. I may or may not listen when you do tell me. Tell me if anyone figures out what to do about Syria.

- skahn

February 29, 2012 at 4:21pm

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I agree with 02/29/2012 - 2:09pm EDT | malahat. There is no solution to Syria, and Hillary sounds credibly diplo-speak in what Peretz quotes here. It is kind of interesting to get the Peretzian update on the Saudi military capabilities. Sounds like the Saudis can take out Iran's nuclear installations. Peretz's personal dilemma is that he seems to only see the world when people are being unfairly murdered. Nothing else matters. I have only been sort of reading TNR since 2008, so I do not know if his brain was ever able to connect the dots. Yes, I am in the "It is what it is" category - most of the world is a dark, Hobbesian place, and why should the USA always have to be 'the decider'? However, no one should post anything about Syria without mentioning the offshore scramble for natural gas. I am surprised there has not yet been a submarine crash in the Eastern Med with so many subs from so many nations sonar-watching the seabeds. Just because Peretz is bouncing off his many walls, does not mean his posts should be shunned. Where else can those of us interested in foreign stuff share our thoughts? I do think Peretz should stop thinking about Syria. Maybe get a dog, move out of Cambridge. He can buy my house here in the Berkshire Hills, in this breathtakingly beautiful right-to-farm village full of cantankerous old flatlanders like him, with just enough curmudgeonly oldtimers who wish the flatlanders would go somehwere else. You would think the oldtimers would have surrendered by now - this village has been a haven for bleeding hearts since the 1865 Civil War, and still no black people...how very curious. I am signing off to watch more of the Leapyear Day snowstorm.

- K2K

February 29, 2012 at 4:56pm

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Says Peretz: "But there are already so many aircraft, tanks, reconnaissance vehicles, and rocket launchers available and ready for work that one wonders why the monarch waits." Hard to imagine that a country with a military wouldn't be eager to use it in war, isn't it? I mean, what's the thing for?

- roidubouloi

February 29, 2012 at 4:57pm

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Asks Sophia, "You know what? If Marty has an idea what we should do about this, I wish he would say so." Marty doesn't do what to do.

- roidubouloi

February 29, 2012 at 5:01pm

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AaronW: Maybe I did not make myself clear since English is not my first language either. I think that what Peretz refers to is that the Arabs, when speaking to Arab audiences, for Arab consumption say one thing and when they speak to Westerners say another, many times in contradiction of the Arabic version when it serves their interest. Yasser Arafat used to be the master of this double speak but others are just as versed in this. I do think though you are a little too fast with attributing bigotry. "And I agree, just as long as we know the Arabs won't actually do anything." That is probably true, so what? Does the West needs to pull the chestnuts from the fire for them? They have Arab League don't they? They buy weapons like there is no tomorrow, this is the time to use them.

- rmakover@swbell.net-OLD

February 29, 2012 at 5:12pm

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That is true, malahat -- it's a good point and reminds us that Israel isn't the only country in the region sees Iran as dangerous. When it comes down to wanting the U.S. to take care of the Iranian nukes, a bunch of other states want that too, and the difference is of course that (in contrast to Israel) they will then condemn us publicly for it afterwards, while secretly congratulating us. I have had a little whimsical image in my head for a while: one night a Royal Saudi Air Force cadet will 'accidentally' trip over a cable and -- Whooops! -- all Saudia Arabia's air defense radar will be down, needing repair. It'll take a few hours, of course, but during that window of time, who knows what can happen? Anyway, subsequently the Saudis will be saying, yeah, odd coincidence that it happened that night when our systems were down. Anyone could have flown over our territory -- we couldn't tell. Pity, but what can you do?

- ironyroad

February 29, 2012 at 5:43pm

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Quick question, is Pusillanimous where the pejorative 'Pussy' comes from?

- CRS9TNR

February 29, 2012 at 7:04pm

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I think that the folks running our country don't have a plan, and really don't have any emotion in dealing with the middle east. Mssr Assad has been such an asshole, and for so long, I would have been carving up his country the first chance I got. Send a little towards Jordan and the Crown Prince there to reward him for his support and keeping things quiet. Send a little bit towards Iraq, and let's go take a look at what else Assad was doing in the dessert. Talk a bit with Turkey and see if maybe they want a piece and can make a deal. Tell Israel they can keep the Golan heights, the family that lost that piece of land is dead and won't be coming back. Maybe do a little trading and try to get Iraq & Turkey to kick in some land for the Kurds while you are at it. You don't waste a good crisis like this. Not if you are prepared to put the knife in that murderous bastard's back.

- CRS9TNR

February 29, 2012 at 7:08pm

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"It has been informally suggested in folk etymology that it is a shortened form of the word "pusillanimous", which comes from Latin words meaning "tiny spirit" and is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as "showing a lack of courage or determination" or cowardly. Though this meaning would seem to be consistent with the intention of the word "pussy" when used as an insult toward a man, it is a false cognate unrelated to the Germanic derivations of puss and pussy. Although unclear, the local term for "cat" in several Austronesian languages have similarities to the word "pussy"." (Wiki)

- noga1

February 29, 2012 at 7:13pm

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"Talk a bit with Turkey and see if maybe they want a piece and can make a deal. " The Turks already occupy a piece of Syria. It's called Alexandretta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatay_Province#Turkish-Syrian_dispute

- noga1

February 29, 2012 at 7:29pm

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CRS9TNR "Quick question, is Pusillanimous where the pejorative 'Pussy' comes from?" This is funny, CRS. I never heard that joke before. It sounds like the kind of question some bright and mischievous undergraduate student would ask.

- arnon1

February 29, 2012 at 8:03pm

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Tsk, tsk, Tristan. Abandon Marty for all those earnest 30-something policy wonks! Me, I relish the rough-and-tumble of this forum and feel cheated when too many issues of TNR go by without a posting by Marty. It reminds me of group therapy for people with anger management issues; here the "therapist" is both catalyst and unseen observer, watching from behind a one-way mirror as his clients have first at him, then at one another. Those who reproach Marty for not proposing any constructive and realistic solutions miss the point, I think. Peretz's real beef is not with Obama, or Hillary, or Kofi Annan, or George Mitchell or, the House of Saud. It is with the Creator. In the absence of a proactive and hands-on God, injustice flourishes throughout the world, and the righteous, when they are not staging spectacles of shock and awe, are reduced to making indignant noises.

- lfeinber@email.unc.edu

February 29, 2012 at 8:06pm

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You gotta hand it to Marty in one respect. He gets some peppy threads going. They are the most enjoyable to read on the site.

- magboy47.

February 29, 2012 at 8:32pm

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http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/state-world-explaining-us-strategy?utm_source=freelist-f&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20120228&utm_term=gweekly&utm_content=readmore&elq=3390dca73b7146b09e91166b6dee3d4d

- roidubouloi

February 29, 2012 at 11:12pm

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malahat: Thunderdome. I like that metaphor for Peretziana, the imaginary State of Why? Too bad the pigs here are not creating any useful energy :)

- K2K

March 1, 2012 at 8:27am

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Too bad indeed.

- roidubouloi

March 1, 2012 at 9:14am

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But pigs follow Peretz like the night the day because they like his muck.

- roidubouloi

March 1, 2012 at 9:15am

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I have decided to do a "Am I too demented to keep posting comments at TNR" comment once a month. I was talking with my neighbor (after our volunteer service session) about how great the United States is that it requires its leaders to step down before they become too demented to realize they are no long fit to govern [contrast to Assad, etc., etc. etc.]. Here at TNR lots of people accuse each other of being too far gone to be fit to continue. A few people do know when to quit. http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/story/2011-09-16/retire-leaders-ceos-coaches/50417870/1. The last leader of our volunteer team also retired when he became too old to keep up supervising the team.

- skahn

March 1, 2012 at 12:19pm

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So the point of the last comment is: tell me if I have become too incoherent, too boring, too irritating, too exasperating, etc. Of course, I will probably ignore you if I am really too far gone. [I will re-post this once a month, unless I forget to do so. If Peretz retires, I will worry about ruining a perfectly good thread, but I will do it anyway.

- skahn

March 1, 2012 at 12:24pm

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Asskahn. Still whining this fake atheist. Go back to your chickens before they die. This amoral nihilist. He discriminates people that practice religion. You should start praying if you don't want to go to he'll.

- JAIMECHUCH

March 1, 2012 at 12:46pm

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asskhan why don't you quit while the going is good. Your chickens need you.

- JAIMECHUCH

March 1, 2012 at 12:49pm

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Here we go again! Why does Marty go for uproar 9 times out of 10? Has he always been like this?!?

- Tgossard

March 1, 2012 at 3:32pm

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Talk about loaded questions!

- Tgossard

March 1, 2012 at 3:36pm

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malahat, I don't want to be understood as blanket endorsing what Friedman says, but I think he has a very interesting take. As to the first paragraph you quote, I think he is saying that it is not actually in the interest of the United States to take great risks to prevent Iran from getting the bomb. Israel wants to be the regional hegemon, with a monopoly on nuclear arms. Of course, who wouldn't. But that doesn't mean that we are best served by an imbalance of power or would be poorly served by a balance, at least not to the point of taking significant risks to prevent it. Iranian power will in part curtail Israel's freedom of action, but will also elicit a response from Turkey that may in the end create a fairly stable balance that does not require the US to do much. Therefore, Friedman says that the sanctions have as their ultimate purpose creating cover that allows the US NOT to intervene militarily, whether the sanctions work or not. Because that is what we most want to avoid. Not saying that is true, but it is a rational thesis. Israel, trying to maintain its monopoly, wants to force us to abandon sanctions in favor of military intervention. Up above somewhere I mentioned that our biggest problem may be that Bush was too unambiguous, declaring that we wouldn't allow Iran to obtain nuclear arms without any plan for how we were going to prevent. Obama cannot back down from that rhetorical claim, but seems to want to introduce greater ambiguity so that the US can avoid any military action as long as possible or indefinitely against the possibility that: a) perhaps a stable balance of power emerges (a la George Friedman), b) the political situation in Iran may change (as may perhaps have occurred in North Korea), c) consensus for sanctions builds until they become powerful enough to work. Notwithstanding Peretz's hyperventilating about Iran being a threat to western civilization (exactly the sort of rhetoric that would make any Iranian leader want the bomb sooner rather than later), Iran presents many fewer risks than we are already living with with Pakistan. Those risks are truly hair-raising, but we have managed not to panic. As to Friedman's second paragraph, I don't agree. A balance of power strategy is always the result of a shortage of resources, tangible and intangible, with which to exert positive control over the entire sphere a great power seeks to influence. The goal is therefore to de-centralize, to establish reasonable balance so that just the threat of our putting our thumb on the scale suffices, and if action is needed it is not everywhere at once and not necessarily that burdensome. The risk to us is strategic overreach and the strategy Friedman describes is a very rational response, even if Israel doesn't like. I don't think it makes a bit of difference whether the recognition is due to an immediate crisis, such as the 2008 economic meltdown, something else. The lack of sufficient resources to be everywhere is a long-term state of affairs, and looking for local balance, that elicits greater effort and restraint from local powers because we are not standing ready to intervene at any moment, is a sensible response. I don't think we really know the intentions of Israel. It could be that they are chafing to attack Iran. If so, and if we are not going to do what is necessary to prevent that, I think we should place as much distance between ourselves and Israel as possible. Other than making Peretz and his ilk happy (which is a mistake by definition), there is no upside to us in being associated with an armed attack on Iran. However, given the analysis of analysts like von Krefeld, Israel may well be bluffing, like those fight scenes where someone is ostensibly chafing to do battle but making damned sure his friends are holding him back so that he can be angry, look tough, and not actually get into a dangerous battle. Our role in the drama may be to allow Israel to seem threatening, not making idle threats, by being the friend holding it back despite its purported fervent desire to get into a fight. If we are going to not hold Israel back hard enough, our best play is to let it do its worst on its own and see how it plays out.

- roidubouloi

March 1, 2012 at 4:47pm

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"Iran doesn't need nuclear weapons for strategic deterrence - who's the enemy?" Let me take a shot at that, malahat. There are two things at work here, and I channel them below in the way that I think the Iranian leadership regards the scenarios: 1. From their pov, they do in fact have an enemy that is trying to bring them down -- the United States. Regime change is U.S. government policy. The U.S. brought down Saddam Hussein their next door neighbor, and he'd been an ally up until a few years previously. The only thing that will stop the U.S. in its tracks is a country that has nuclear capability. Then the U.S. won't mess with you. 2 Iran was traumatized by the ease at which the Iraqi were able to launch waves of rocket attacks against Teheran in the late 1980s, and the obvious lack of interest the rest of the world (including Muslim nations) had in that experience. If they are to be attacked that way by anyone in the future, they want to have something that will make the "anyone" planning such an attack stop and think very hard before they move. I think you're correct in the implication of your question that, strictly speaking, Israel cannot feature in a strategic defense landscape for Iran, as Israel is not threatening Iran. But if you have bought into 1. and 2., then in a screwy way Israel becomes just the junior regional representative of the United States.

- ironyroad

March 1, 2012 at 6:45pm

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roidubouloi The view from Israel published by NYT. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/01/opinion/israels-last-chance-to-strike-iran.html?_r=1&hp

- JAIMECHUCH

March 1, 2012 at 8:08pm

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malahat, what you say is a very cogent refutation of the case that the Iranian leadership might advance if they were here, and I sincerely hope that one day we (the U.S.) have the opportunity to negotiate a solution to the impending crisis in which your arguments are taken seriously by them.

- ironyroad

March 1, 2012 at 8:24pm

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You're welcome. Although I would say as a footnote that, although your "re: 1" makes sense, regimes tend to believe (see PRNK) that a nuclear weapon also protects them against internally generated popular protests/insurgency -- rather as a guy with a gun feels less scared of wasps even though his gun is useless in repelling a swarm of wasps.

- ironyroad

March 1, 2012 at 8:58pm

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roidubouloi How can you make a statement that Iran is less dangerous than Pakistan, and live with yourself? Then you go to say let Israel do it and USA watch from afar....... with naval vessels in Hormuz eh? You remain a Galicianer dishonest self hatred Jew virulent anti Israel. Your other nicknames apply, roi..dent, hemor..roid. King du stinky baloney. Your biased bigoted silly comments bring the best in the pro Israel crowd. Keep up the good work, you silly old fool. Your obsession with failed international institutions declaring the legality of liberated territories was missing this time.

- JAIMECHUCH

March 2, 2012 at 5:48am

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The chief danger is not state use with a return address, but loose nukes. As to the latter, Pakistan poses a serious risk. It is barely governed, not at all the case in Iran.

- roidubouloi

March 2, 2012 at 8:49am

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agree with roid above -- I hope we have a plan for when Pakistan crumbles

- ironyroad

March 2, 2012 at 9:40am

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half witted ironyroad interjects. I told you stiick to correct grammar, otherwise your brain is half witted. Old roidubouloi apologizer of Iran. Minimizes the Iranian super militaristic terrorist theocratic fanatics. Mon dieu, Iran has planted 55,000 missiles in Lebanon/Hizbullah, 10,000 missiles in Gaza/Hamas, and Iranian operatives are all over Syria killing innocent civilians that happen to be Sunny Muslim Brotherhood. Now good old roi..dent wants Iran to have nuclear capabilities. No, hemor..roid, is not that dumb, he is virulently anti Israel. This coming from a Galicianer dishonest self hatred Jew.

- JAIMECHUCH

March 2, 2012 at 10:12am

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The apologizers of terrorist Iran, like roidubouloi here and Roger Cohen from the NYT, all of them self hatred Jews anti Israel. Do not realize that Israel in bombing Iran nuclear murderous ambitions, will include nightmarish destruction to Gaza , Lebanon, and Syria.

- JAIMECHUCH

March 2, 2012 at 10:20am

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If Pakistan would make any false moves India will take care of them, of course the USA is more than ready to take care of destroying Pakistan nuclear facilities. Not a pretty scenario. One more reason to stop fanatical Iran to acquire nuclear weapons. And I assure you that Israel will be helped by Saudi Arabia and Azerbijan in attacking Iran, even you can count on the Kurds and Sunnis from Iraq. The Kurds will be rewarded with Syria, and parts of Iran. Kurdistan , the Sunnis, will emerge as a country by itself. An already peaceful progressive people. Although defending themselves already from the Turks. You see roi..dent, hemor..roid, with your biased anti Israel postings, you bring the best on the pro Israel crowd.

- JAIMECHUCH

March 2, 2012 at 10:33am

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This is turning to be the JCr show, JaimeChuchi is the ventriloquist roidubouloi is the dummy.

- JAIMECHUCH

March 2, 2012 at 10:46am

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I don't know if Obama will act militarily to stop Iran from going nuclear. But this conflict ,if it occurs, in this election year will help re-elect Obama. In case of major conflict the American people always vote overwhelmingly for the sitting President . I hope there is no war of any kind. But Iran is a very dangerous mischievous country. Why in the world they don't dedicate their resources to improve the lot of their people in a peaceful progressive way. They are in the path of self destruction. I guess you can not reason with mad dogs and Iranians. And roi..dent of course.

- JAIMECHUCH

March 2, 2012 at 11:04am

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