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Go Home Santorum and the Idiocy of Home Schooling

POLITICS MARCH 3, 2012

Santorum and the Idiocy of Home Schooling

BY MARTIN PERETZ

No sooner had Mitt Romney triumphed in the Michigan primary than Rick Santorum edged into his victory by succeeding in winning an equal number of delegates. Romney polled 3 percent higher than Santorum in the popular vote. But that meant nothing in the arcana of counting at the polls that will be translated into 15 delegates each at the Tampa convention in August. Whether this gives Santorum momentum to break whatever lead Romney has going into the ten Republican “Super Tuesday” primaries in Ohio, Massachusetts, Tennessee, Idaho, Oklahoma, North Dakota, Georgia, Alaska, Virginia, and Vermont we will see soon enough. Believe me, I am not eager for this to happen. Some smart-asses wrote in after I blogged about the Mormons and Zionism that I was subtly hinting that I was moving towards Romney. Or maybe even not so subtly. The fact is that, as of now, I am voting for Norman Thomas.

You don't know who Norman Thomas is? Well, first of all, he's dead. Second of all, he was the grandfather of my student Evan Thomas, an editor at both Time and Newsweek, now teaching journalism at Princeton. And, oh, yes, he was six-time candidate of the (very much anti-communist) Socialist Party for president of the United States. His last time around, in 1948, was when Harry Truman won over Thomas E. Dewey, and the communists rallied around the astral Progressive Party candidate, FDR's former vice president Henry A. Wallace who gained nearly 2.5 percent of the tally with about 1.15 million votes, most of them, I am ashamed to say, among Jews in New York and Los Angeles. 139,000 citizens voted for Norman Thomas, accounting for .29 percent of the whole. This wasn't a lot. But many of my parents' friends were among them. (Being very much against Stalin and very much for Israel, my folks voted for Truman.) Even in 1952 and 1956, when Adlai Stevenson ran against Dwight Eisenhower, an election which in retrospect turned out quite alright, a lot of intelligent folk yearned for Norman Thomas. I was at Brandeis in 1956 and Michael Walzer and I yearned for Norman Thomas. And so did Irving Howe. (Herbert Marcuse? Well, he probably yearned for Wallace or probably someone worse who was not available.) The truth is that, right now, I'd vote for socialist Thomas in the bat of an eye. I am afraid this riff may not even have the charm of quaintness to it: I just came back from dinner with a brilliant young political scientist. Alas, he did not even know who Norman Thomas was. I asked him about Eugene V. Debs. Nope, he hadn't heard of him either. But you know who he is, don't you?

I watched the Arizona debate on the tube, actually from outside Tucson with Michael Kinsley. The most salient feature of the four-candidate confrontation was, as USA Today reported, that they “mauled a few facts.” Still, it's interesting to watch a discussion in which one has no stake in anyone coming out on top. But, frankly, I thought that Rick Santorum had the most charm, was the most honest, and conveyed the most sincerity and earnestness of all the four. The index of his candor is, while he may rise in the estimation of primary voters, he continues to alienate the general electorate. But the fact is that he's a nutcase, a very genial nutcase. Even strategically, he seems to be going after the support of those Republicans who will block his way to other Republicans. Now, these latter Republicans, generically “Rockefeller Republicans,” are a dying breed. Oops, they may all be dead. We once called them liberal Republicans. But even conservative Republicans like the son of the former president of the United States and the Chief Justice William Howard Taft, Senator Robert Taft, the Senate's leading opponent of the New Deal who ran against Ike at the 1952 G.O.P. convention and who was the standard bearer of the party's right, would find nothing comforting in anything Santorum, Gingrich or Paul said. For that matter they might not have trusted Romney either. After all, Taft was no trimmer. So the question between Mike and me was whether this Republican Party could ever win this election in November.

The fortunetellers have switched their divinations, and that makes for a wave. Ten days or maybe two weeks ago, mostly they foresaw the president losing. Now he's winning. Actually the polls don't tell you much. But what they do tell you is that the Republican debates are alienating the electorate from the party's contenders. Just wait till after Tampa, however. The nominees will change their tune. And maybe the stock market, now going up a bit, will come down again. And gas prices will continue their climb. Anyway, it's eight months before D-day. This does not necessarily translate into Democrat's day.

Now, one of the causes on which Santorum is basing his campaign is the end of the public school system. He's not saying it quite that clearly, and maybe he doesn't grasp that's where his (illogical) logic leads us. But his ramblings are crystal clear. He wants to have parents take over the teaching function in society. In a way, it all reminds me of the black “people power” movement in Brooklyn where, in the late sixties and early seventies, parents (or their manipulators) took over the schools and made more of a mess of them, adding racial and religious rancor to the mix. In which, to be sure, Woody Allen, with fashionista politics, participated by slipping into his movie Sleeper a line about Al Shanker, the head of the beleaguered Teachers' Union, “getting hold of a nuclear warhead and destroying the world.” Of course, Santorum would reject any analogy between what he's saying now and what the black activists were saying then. Yet it is the fantasy of their children being intellectually and socially attacked by the authorities that fuels both resentments.

I do not assume that our declining educational systems can be remedied easily. Quite to the contrary. But the idea of parents being in control is an illusion—more than that, a delusion. Charles Murray's new book, Coming Apart, which I read this week, is much better than Tim Noah says it is. It has none of the racial biases that for decades have been attributed to him. It is, in fact, a coherent reading of the social and economic anomie that is both a cause and a result of the disintegration of family across all classes and races. Except for the new and quite large analytic category which is cross-ethnic, cross-racial, cross-class, and loyal to the old virtues and verities. It is they who will save the day.

And certainly not those who are schooled in creationism and the rejection of evolution and of other proven theories that have illumined the mind and the world. Even the spirit. The fact is, in any case, that unless we want our children to be ignorant of the sciences and high literature we'd better leave teaching them to certified teachers. Long ago, I got an A in calculus at the Bronx High School of Science, not a bad school, as they say. I couldn't teach my grandchildren trigonometry or algebra, and my children couldn't either. Schooling is still a problem. But Santorum's remedies would make it worse. We are, after all, ignorant. 

Martin Peretz is editor-in-chief emeritus of The New Republic

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69 comments

First (and off-topic), tomorrow (if nothing goes ill) I will attend the local GOP nominating caucus for Washington state. I thought nobody would be there so I could amuse myself with a narcissistic rant. However, at the gym tonight, one of the trainers said that her husband is a precinct worker, so I will have at least someone as a victim. 1. Based on advice from someone here, I will cast my straw vote for Gary Johnson. (Why is he better than Ron Paul? Tell me by tomorrow morning.) 2. What should I say to the other people at the caucus?

- skahn

March 3, 2012 at 12:39am

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Second, I have known some sensible, secular people (including my brother) who have home schooled their children with some success. I don't think it would be a good system for the United States for everyone, but I think we should be allowed to do it, just as I think that we should be allowed to own guns, even though some people will kill themselves and neighbors with their guns. After all, we are a free country under an (imaginary) God. Also children except in the case of singular child abuse are essentially the property of their parents until they are old enough to fend for themselves. They are not the property of the state. However, most people are not going to want to home school their children, so in the end it will all work out unles the supervolcano under Yellowstone erupts in 2012. In which case, run for the hills.

- skahn

March 3, 2012 at 12:44am

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The problem with government schools is that they are subject to political pressures from both the right and the left that prevent the majority of them from teaching anything. The religious right doesn't allow the teaching of evolutionary biology The left doesn't allow the teaching of anything except inane multi-culti garbage, aka goo-goo. According to the "progressive" educrats in charge, all cultures are equal, except that those of the US in particular and the West in general are inferior to the others. The answer is for government to get out of the education business altogether. Certainly the federal government should butt out. The federal government has spent billions upon billions on education without anything to show for it.

- bulbman1066

March 3, 2012 at 12:51am

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"The fact is, in any case, that unless we want our children to be ignorant of the sciences and high literature we'd better leave teaching them to certified teachers. Long ago, I got an A in calculus at the Bronx High School of Science, not a bad school, as they say. I couldn't teach my grandchildren trigonometry or algebra, and my children couldn't either. Schooling is still a problem. But Santorum's remedies would make it worse. We are, after all, ignorant." Excellent conclusion to a fine article.

- arnon1

March 3, 2012 at 12:51am

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bulbman1066 "The problem with government schools is that they are subject to political pressures from both the right and the left that prevent the majority of them from teaching anything." Anything? Lot's of well educated students of all ages out there. Learning goes on in spite of political pressures. Political pressure has been around since the creation of public schools.

- arnon1

March 3, 2012 at 12:54am

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skahn speaks the truth. That most "liberals" disagree with him confirms my belief that contemporary "liberalism" is soft-core totalitarianism.

- bulbman1066

March 3, 2012 at 12:56am

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"contemporary "liberalism" is soft-core totalitarianism." Unlike conservativism and libertarianism which is a model of tolerance, unless you have the misfortune of being poor. Then tolerant conservatives will tell you shape up or ship out.

- arnon1

March 3, 2012 at 1:15am

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arnon1, The poor standing of American children in basic subjects compared to those in other industrial countries says you're wrong. The stagnation in test scores says you're wrong. Even when you adjust for ethnicity and social class the picture is not pretty. The exception is that, surprise, surprise, upper middle class American children are well educated. For genetic and other reasons they are and always will be. But surely working and lower middle class children deserve better than they are getting. How about we emulate the Europeans and provide quality vocational education and stop pretending that all children should go to college? As it is, out of political correctness we insist that colleges enroll large numbers who fail to graduate. The waste of human and financial resources in that policy is unconscionable.

- bulbman1066

March 3, 2012 at 1:24am

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"The poor standing of American children in basic subjects compared to those in other industrial countries says you're wrong. The stagnation in test scores says you're wrong. Even when you adjust for ethnicity and social class the picture is not pretty." Most other countries have strong centralized education systems run by their governments. Hence, you are the one who is wrong.

- arnon1

March 3, 2012 at 1:33am

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Aron1, you write, "contemporary "liberalism" is soft-core totalitarianism." Unlike conservativism and libertarianism which is a model of tolerance, unless you have the misfortune of being poor. Then tolerant conservatives will tell you shape up or ship out. What you write as quoted above is, as the physicist Wolfgang Pauli said about a paper of a physicist of the time, "not even wrong". It is utterly without sense. My contribution to fighting poverty is to hire Asian and Latino immigrants to work for me. One of my laborers is contemplating buying a second home, now that he has sent his daughter through UCLA. Democrats like "poverty" because it creates a large bloc of voters dependent on the Democratic Party. There are, it seems, two choices, to work for a living or to vote for a living. When people choose the former they prosper, as does society as a whole. When they choose the latter they stay stuck in poverty and do predictable harm to society.

- bulbman1066

March 3, 2012 at 1:50am

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Arnon1, You write: "The poor standing of American children in basic subjects compared to those in other industrial countries says you're wrong. The stagnation in test scores says you're wrong. Even when you adjust for ethnicity and social class the picture is not pretty." Most other countries have strong centralized education systems run by their governments. Hence, you are the one who is wrong. Arnon1, You are missing the point. The European education system, precisely because it recognized that not more than a fraction, say 20% of children, are qualified for higher education, was better than the American system. The said fact is that after the leftist "reforms" of the sixties and seventies the European system of higher education went downhill. Even after that, the European secondary school system is still on average ahead of ours. But when it comes to higher education the US has moved ahead of Europe. Ambitious European (and Asian) students come to the US to study. Why? Because the American colleges and universities are mostly privately run. Because most of the once great European universities have have by taken over the the left any lazy doofus can major in Social Justice Studies and be supported by the taxpayer. Question: given the trend toward takeover of American higher education by the peecee left at its most moronic, how much longer can we attract students from abroad?

- bulbman1066

March 3, 2012 at 2:45am

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Last sentence of the penultimate paragraph with typos corrected: Because most of the once great European universities have been taken over by the left, any lazy doofus can major in Social Justice Studies and be supported by the taxpayer.

- bulbman1066

March 3, 2012 at 2:53am

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bulbman owns the Dictionary of Wascally Wiberals. He looks up terms like "poverty" and "Democrats" and reads from the text. That's the extent of his interpretive and analytic skills. If anything is proof that public-school education doesn't work, he's it. Fortunately, some people manage to wrench an education from the hell that is government schooling. In fact, most of the great minds and achievers in America in the last 100 years have attended public schools. And, oh, by the way, once "home schoolers" take big guv'mint subsidy money for schoolin' their children like Santorum did, they ain't home schoolers no more. They's guv'mint varmints.

- magboy47.

March 3, 2012 at 3:03am

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How have "great European universities" been taken over by the left? Why should "Social Justice Studies" particularly involve support from the taxpayer while "Theoretical Physics" doesn't? It's a heck of a lot more expensive to do the latter. Is social justice an unworthy aim?

- ironyroad

March 3, 2012 at 3:05am

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Apparently, TNR is a secretly libertarian cabal. As far as I can tell, there is no moderation of these forums whatsoever. I can flame anybody I want and my message will not be deleted. For example !*&#% is a f*cking idiot! (As you can see -- two for one -- my messages will not be deleted for using bad language.) Also, my comments will not be deleted for for being demented. What other taboos are there to test? See next comment.

- skahn

March 3, 2012 at 8:03am

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I should also note that being off-topic does not lead to deletion, nor does posting repeated comments. Anyway, what about spam. Does spam lead to deletion? In the next comment I will post a spam comment!

- skahn

March 3, 2012 at 8:07am

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Perhaps Marty (who has money, I believe) will fall for this spam comment. My wife wants a new pickup truck. To help pay for it, I am going to print up and sell bumper stickers. The stickers will say the following: He who dies with the least stuff wins Obviously, I am trying to sell this bumper sticker to collect stuff, so along with my other offenses and crimes, I am a hypocrite. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORGaACYbAk0&feature=related (My wife is cuter than Janis Joplin, and she just wants to be a truck drivin woman, not a Mercedes Benz drivin woman.)

- skahn

March 3, 2012 at 8:18am

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So MP is fond of socialists. As long as they are dead. The lesson: a dead socialist is the only good socialist. I suppose there are advantages to being the most unselfaware person around.

- rayward

March 3, 2012 at 8:23am

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Martin, Well done, all in all, except: "I do not assume that our declining educational systems can be remedied easily." Our educational systems are declining? That's as sweeping an assumption as it is doubtful. Dan Dan

- dbuck1

March 3, 2012 at 8:58am

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I look at public education in this way. Suppose you are the coach of a high school basketball team who wants to win. Would you go to the lower schools and establish city recreational leagues and set up training at the lower levels of the school system, so a larger pool of trained players arrives at the high school level? Or like Santorum, would you consider such acts to be too much control over the individual? Suppose you are in charge of the country and you want your country to compete in the global economy. What would you do?

- Nusholtz

March 3, 2012 at 11:14am

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Peretz is out-of-date on Bronx HS of Science. I lost track after half of the Social Studies teachers were forced out by one of Bloomberg's new principals, immersed in the student-centered self-learning theories that requires the teachers to be as silent as possible lest they interfere with the students teaching each other in forced group activities. I was trying to re-train as a teacher, but knew it was folly when one of my grad school professors questioned why I wanted to take a course on teaching literacy. She exclaimed"I thought you wanted to teach Social Studies. What does literacy have to do with that?" Well, at least I learned who Norman Thomas was, in my last attempt at learning something new so I could be re-deployed into the workforce. Between 2002-2005, I judged senior essays for NYC History Day. Most of the NYC public high schools actively discouraged participation because it was a competition (I was told that was official NYC policy by a key person working on American History curriculum at CUNY). I gave up when my last judging centered on a poorly composed essay on Jane Austen as proto-feminist by a student from NYC's other top school, Stuyvesant HS.

- K2K

March 3, 2012 at 11:30am

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I am amazed by this article. I always thought that the battles about public schooling in the US have been fought long time ago and won somewhere around the 70s. Isn't elementary school mandatory in the US? Home schooling? What a bizarre notion that somebody would entertain this idea in the 21th century.

- rmakover@swbell.net-OLD

March 3, 2012 at 12:36pm

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Public schools are supposed to be an instrument of public policy to create competent citizens. They somehow made immigrants into Americans and qualified working class children for jobs and higher education. If we give up public education to trendy political fads and religious reactionaries, we fail to assure the future of the country. Mass public education is supposed to foment a democratic culture of capable citizens and a mass middle class. Also at work is an abdication of civic responsibility by the upper middle class. In my city, my peers are concerned with putting their kids thru charter schools, not with improving the public schools. Absent public education leadership, I can understand why my friends are scrambling with their own available resources to protect their children. But this does not auger well for the future. Conservatives are trying to fan the panic driving the middle class out of the public schools. Next, it'll be social security and other unifying components of the American state. As Christopher Lasch has written years ago in The Revolt of the Elites and the Betrayal of Democracy, the real upper class of high powered professionals and business people has already seceded from the national community for membership in the international upper class. Santorum and other conservatives would demolish public education because they really want to destroy the American national state, as we can see, by undermining public faith in our public institutions and diverting public revenues to schools segregated by class, ethnicity, and sect. The destruction of the national state, as we have seen in some countries such as Lebanon, can lead to very unpretty results. We cannot take the United States for granted. It is riven by regional, economic, and cultural differences. Public education is one of the cements of the national state. We still face major challenges: the unfinished integration of black Americans, the acculturation of a mass Latino immigration, the decline of scientific understanding, and the restructuring of public education to current economic realities and new technologies. Mass home schooling is a farce. Most parents don't have the time or skills to teach their kids. Home computers can't make up the difference. Socialization to the larger society is absent.

- amidut

March 3, 2012 at 12:53pm

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rayward "So MP is fond of socialists. As long as they are dead." This is very dumb, rayward. You have very strong opinions but they are based on very little most of the time.

- arnon1

March 3, 2012 at 12:56pm

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"Well, at least I learned who Norman Thomas was, ..." This speaks volumes about you K2K. The Bronx School of science is still one of the best public schools around. "Faculty The Bronx Science faculty includes educators with advanced degrees, including the Ph.D., in their field, and many have taught at universities. Unlike most New York City public schools, teachers are not hired according to seniority. Instead, teachers are interviewed and reviewed by a committee of current teachers from the department. Some teachers are also alumni of the school: Michael Contente (ret. June 2007), the former coordinator of the Department of Mathematics (1966); Jean M. Donahue, Ph.D., the assistant principal of the Science Department (1977); Fred Levy, assistant principal of the art, music, and technology departments; David Cohen (math and technology), Richard Lee (biology), Sherrill Mirsky (ret. June 2009), Dorothy Klausner (ret. June 2009), Beatrice Robertson (math), Polly Schoenfeld (English), Daniel Abella (filmmaking), John Liu (Global and U.S. History). James Perna, a Teacher of the Year Many teachers also play an active role in the advancement of the school's vision. For example, Fanny K. Ennever, Ph.D., a former teacher in the Physical Science Department and adjunct assistant professor at Columbia University,[46] was responsible for securing a $27,500 grant in both 2004 and 2005 for developing and modifying the Bronx Science chemistry laboratory curriculum, in order to make sessions less "cookbook" and more inquiry-based.[47] Every year, the senior members of ARISTA National Honor Society vote for the Honored Teacher Award. Winners of the award include Patricia Nunez, Gregory Greene, James Perna, Pat Drury, Mr. Reutershan, Dr. Wheeler, Mrs. Ramos, and Louis DiIulio." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bronx_High_School_of_Science#Faculty

- arnon1

March 3, 2012 at 1:00pm

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My mom voted for Norman Thomas, I remember hearing about him as a little girl; she also liked Adlai Stevenson. Well she was a Socialist, so, mother's milk:) PS boy is she rolling in her grave right about now, with these so called Republicans. Anyway, the home schooling thing is nonsense in my opinion; of course people should have the RIGHT to do it since we are The Land Of The Free, unless we are women, black, Latino or poor of course, or have an illness, but I digress. "Public schools" in rightwingspeech = Those People, ie, folks who are the wrong color/minority group, such as Latinos or black or not-Christian. Obviously we can't have our kids intermingling with THEM. You've got to understand this underlies a great deal of the home-schooling thing. It's a desire to keep the kiddies away from from undesirables, and also, give them a religiously biased education. There are surely some on the Left or among Libertarians who are into home-schooling but I'd bet the farm that most are right wing religious types and they are probably also not big fans of diversity. Plus, there's the money issue. Public schools in wealthy suburbs are quite excellent; in the cities, in poor towns and neighborhoods, people struggle with failing infrastructure, and just keeping the kids' attention is a challenge. But the answer isn't destroying the system altogether. It's balancing things economically and only a commitment to good, strong, universal PUBLIC education can do that. The worst thing that could happen is an end to the public school system. It chills me to the bone when I hear that vouchers to private parochial schools are in any sense a substitute to improving the public school system, supporting good educators and rebuilding infrastructure. You can't teach in a freezing, broken down building! Also, too much standardization is not the answer. Some of the focus of testing strikes me as absurd. Learning is a process, it's a lifelong joy and we need to rethink how to make national standards clear and universal whilst empowering individual teachers and schools. Not all students are alike, not all communities face the same challenges. Regardless, kids should love school, look forward to going and get a great education wherever they happen to live. Oh ps: stop cutting the arts. Every time there's a budget issue guess what gets chopped. The very thing that teaches the joy of creativity, of learning, of doing. Art.

- Sophia

March 3, 2012 at 1:40pm

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"Isn't elementary school mandatory in the US? Home schooling? What a bizarre notion that somebody would entertain this idea in the 21th century." Home education is no more the solution to the US educating every student to his or her full potential than back yard gardens are the solution to world hunger, but that doesn't mean there is no place for home education or for backyard gardens. My children were both home educated through age 18. Both are now working on PhDs. One speaks 4 or 5 languages, the other does applied mathematics that is both highly useful to the world, and way beyond the ken, I suspect, of most posters here. Both are highly engaged citizens - we would all be fortunate indeed to live in a world where all their cohort were as capable and engaged as they are. That would certainly ease my fears for the future of the country. But, none of that means I think that parents should all home educate their children - I fully support robust quality public education in this country, because it is the foundation of an informed and reasonable citizenry. I supported it with taxes when we were home educating our children, and today, if doubling the taxes I pay toward schools would make it the world class system it should be, I'd sign up tomorrow for doubling those taxes. And, I would expect the overwhelming majority of parents to take advantage of public education for their children. But that doesn't mean that parents who are capable and interested shouldn't be allowed to home educate. Diversity is the mother of richness, and diversity in how we educate the next generation will only benefit that generation, provided we insist on real results for each system. For the record, we also grow the overwhelming majority of the vegetables we eat. That doesn't mean I want to do away with vegetable farmers.

- IowaBeauty

March 3, 2012 at 3:26pm

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" I fully support robust quality public education in this country, because it is the foundation of an informed and reasonable citizenry." This is the reason why right wing conservatives are against public education. They don't want a citizenry that can think for themselves.

- arnon1

March 3, 2012 at 3:59pm

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Once again, this is the "trap crop" forum for isolating pests and nudniks from cluttering up the other articles/discussion threads as much as they do. I am just back from participating in the Washington state South Island County Republican caucus. I will post a brief summary of what happened for almost everyone to ignore. About 200 or so people attended. The general attitude was Christian libertarian; however, there were people all over the map. I controlled myself and did not speak very much. I was kind of a single-issue category-jumper; I lobbied people not to sign the petition making the rounds to repeal Washington's recent homosexual marriage bill. The younger libertarians were all for homosexual marriage being legal; a lot of the older cranks whined about "Obama care," and then argued for it without realizing they are for it. i asked how many there were not religious believers. I saw about 10-15 hands out of the crowd. I now describe myself as an "ethical nihilist"; but I did not use the phrase at the caucus. I am not likely to change my voter registration to Republican, or try and go to the state or national conventions. There was quite a bit of support for Ron Paul, especially among the few younger particpants. I said that I have an emotional attachment to libertarianism [to be brief I did not expand the thought that it does not much work in practice.] I said that althought I am n not demented, I am getting there; while Ron Paul is still pretty sharp, people at our age should know when they should refrain from taking on projects and goals beyond their sensible capacity. Therefore, I said, I endorsed Gary Johnson. I am pretty sure the only one endorsing him at this caucus; perhaps the only one in Washington state. I will write him and tell him that I endorsed him; although his attempt to gain the GOP nomination is as quixotic as Jon Huntsman's, I do want to encourage him.

- skahn

March 3, 2012 at 5:08pm

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It is a shame that on the rare occasions when Peretz writes something interesting, thoughtful, and half way coherent, his posts still attract the always ready platoon of kooks, flat earthers, and sociopaths. I enjoyed this article mainly because Peretz references historical characters, somewhat on the gadfly spectrum yes, but still interesting. And in what must have been a Herculean effort, he doesn't mention Obama once. Marty Peretz has always been a fascinating specimen and every now and then, you can see why at one time, people cared about what he said and took him seriously.

- MrCookie1

March 3, 2012 at 6:58pm

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I haven't read this thread because I'm on a slight high from the enjoyment of just having read this good piece by Pertetz at his discursive best, as opposed to his discursive worst. I really liked his roaming around dropping various thoughts and insights along his winding way. I agree with his views on Charles Murray's book which I quite liked though I skipped over the graphs and explanations of them. And I completely agree with with what a lost, hopeless cause is home schooling as a general proposition save perhaps in outlier cases. I would have read the thread but reading Ken's last post made me decide not to.

- basman

March 3, 2012 at 8:56pm

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...lost, hopeless cause... Should have been ...lost, hopeless and reactionary cause...

- basman

March 3, 2012 at 8:57pm

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Itzik - I agree, I liked the discursive, stream of thought. The man is so smart and has lived and experiences quite a life. I just wish he would write more articles like this one. I liked it.

- MrCookie1

March 3, 2012 at 9:07pm

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Mr. Cookie, with people like Martin Peretz you need to read each post as unique. I find many of his posts too absurd to take seriously, but once in a while he really rises to what he must have been like in the early years of his editorship. This is one of them.

- arnon1

March 3, 2012 at 9:13pm

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I really agree with the last half a dozen or so comments. As my wife said today (after she mislaid some screws for a furniture remodeling project she is working on) "You know, getting old really sucks."

- skahn

March 3, 2012 at 10:45pm

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Yes, maybe getting old is Martin Peretz's real problem.

- arnon1

March 3, 2012 at 11:38pm

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... "You know, getting old really sucks."... It's terrible: half the time I can't remember if I've pressed the button to open my garage door from inside my house. And a few days ago on the same day--what the hell was distracting me?--I absent mindedly took off my sweaty shirt right inside my gym rather than in the appropriate locker room for that--I couldn't believe I'd done that as soon as I realized I had-- and then right after forgot to put the gas cap back on after putting gas in my car and needless to say lost the cap.

- basman

March 3, 2012 at 11:44pm

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Public education worked when there was a consensus in this country in favor of the ideas in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. But since the sixties the elites of politics, education and journalism have rebelled against the classical liberalism on which this country had hitherto been based. The old system of government based on the Constitution has come under challenge from the elites, whose contempt of liberty knows no bound and who value power above all else. The modus operandi of the new ruling class is to bribe "minorites" to vote for them with handouts from the Treasury while passing out favors to selected corporations. Call it socialism, call it fascism, call it crony capitalism, call it what you will. I call it "liberal fascism" and along with the millions of Americans who either work for a living or want to work for a living I say it sucks.

- bulbman1066

March 4, 2012 at 12:38am

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I met Norman Thomas on a few occasions when I was a youngster. I yearn for Norman, also. What I find fascinating is that Prof. Peretz can spend decades smashing democratic socialism ("Social Democracy") in the New Republic and then state he yearns for Norman Thomas for President. The major crime is the kids don't know much about Norman and Eugene V. Debs. Well, if you spend 20 or 30 years denouncing democratic socialism and Social Democrats from the rooftops, how in heaven's name can your expect the kids to have any appreciation for Norman and Eugene V Debs?

- LawrenceGulotta

March 4, 2012 at 12:56am

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LawrenceGulotta as I've told you I always enjoy your comments. How in your opinion does Bernie Sanders compare to Norman Thomas?

- basman

March 4, 2012 at 1:37am

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The whining amoral nihilist indulges in patronizing ad nauseous. If he only prayed to the almighty his whining would disappear. A bigot discrimination wise will soon have all dead chickens.

- JAIMECHUCH

March 4, 2012 at 2:12am

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Now the turret syndrome infirm has the audacity to demonize MP. Makes him fill relieved from his inferiority.

- JAIMECHUCH

March 4, 2012 at 2:17am

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The disgusting old fool of a chuchold ignoramus has the nerve to come here and display his racist self. His presence deforms any place he goes. He needs to be combined to that mental ward which is his home.

- Packard

March 4, 2012 at 7:07am

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To restate: Chuchhold's presence deforms any place he goes. He needs to be confined to that mental ward for old infirm and bigoted narcissists which is his home.

- Packard

March 4, 2012 at 7:12am

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Thank you basman. Although I don't live in Vt, I will be contributing to Senator Sander's re-election campaign. Norman was never elected to public office but became a moral compass for many independent thinking Americans, socialist and non-socialist. Sanders is that rare socialist able to push past the anti-socialist and anti-humanist bias of everyday experience and achieve trust and real results. Sanders doesn't wear the halo of sainthood like Norman, but he does project fervor and passion based on his practical and Socialist idealism. Unlike Norman, he is not tied to a political party; he is a very successful political independent. I think Norman might be delighted to have witnessed the ascendancy of Bernie Sanders to high political office. Sanders success is also a testament to the good people of Vt.

- LawrenceGulotta

March 4, 2012 at 7:35am

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arnon: I spent a semester observing Social Studies classes at Bronx HS Science in 2003. Always regretted I did not ask to do my student teaching there in 2004, not just because it is in my neighborhood and I can walk there, but because of the quality of the teachers, who seemed to be under some private pressure to change the way they taught. Then I read this: A version of this article appeared in print on September 16, 2011, on page A18 of the New York edition with the headline: At Prestigious Bronx School, an Exodus of Teachers and Criticism for Leaders. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/16/education/16bronx.html?hpw "At Prestigious Bronx School, an Exodus of Teachers and Criticism for Leaders" By ANNA M. PHILLIPS Published: September 16, 2011 "Simmering tensions between the faculty and administration at the prestigious Bronx High School of Science have led to an exodus of teachers, with 8 of the school’s 20 social studies teachers choosing not to return this year. ... Out of a teaching staff of about 140, 26 people — about 19 percent — did not return to Bronx Science this year. School officials said 11 of them retired. Citywide, the turnover rate last year was about 14 percent. At Bronx Science, 23 percent of teachers in 2010 had less than three years of experience in city schools. The percentages at Stuyvesant High School and Brooklyn Technical High School, Bronx Science’s two main competitors for the city’s top students, were 6 percent and 1 percent. The grievances of the Bronx Science social studies teachers are reminiscent of those made in a special complaint in 2008. At that time, 20 of the school’s 22 math teachers accused Rosemarie Jahoda, the math assistant principal, of harassing and intimidating new teachers. In 2010, an arbitrator ruled that both Ms. Jahoda and the school’s chapter leader, Peter Lamphere, should be transferred to other schools. City education officials did not follow the recommendation. The years of turmoil and infighting have attracted the attention of administrators at other high schools. ..." A version of this article appeared in print on September 16, 2011, on page A18 of the New York edition with the headline: At Prestigious Bronx School, an Exodus of Teachers and Criticism for Leaders.. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/16/education/16bronx.html?hpw

- K2K

March 4, 2012 at 9:15am

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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/16/education/16bronx.html?hpw "At Prestigious Bronx School, an Exodus of Teachers and Criticism for Leaders" By ANNA M. PHILLIPS Published: September 16, 2011 "Simmering tensions between the faculty and administration at the prestigious Bronx High School of Science have led to an exodus of teachers, with 8 of the school’s 20 social studies teachers choosing not to return this year. ... Out of a teaching staff of about 140, 26 people — about 19 percent — did not return to Bronx Science this year. School officials said 11 of them retired. Citywide, the turnover rate last year was about 14 percent. At Bronx Science, 23 percent of teachers in 2010 had less than three years of experience in city schools. The percentages at Stuyvesant High School and Brooklyn Technical High School, Bronx Science’s two main competitors for the city’s top students, were 6 percent and 1 percent. The grievances of the Bronx Science social studies teachers are reminiscent of those made in a special complaint in 2008. At that time, 20 of the school’s 22 math teachers accused Rosemarie Jahoda, the math assistant principal, of harassing and intimidating new teachers. In 2010, an arbitrator ruled that both Ms. Jahoda and the school’s chapter leader, Peter Lamphere, should be transferred to other schools. City education officials did not follow the recommendation. The years of turmoil and infighting have attracted the attention of administrators at other high schools. ..." A version of this article appeared in print on September 16, 2011, on page A18 of the New York edition with the headline: At Prestigious Bronx School, an Exodus of Teachers and Criticism for Leaders.. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/16/education/16bronx.html?hpw

- K2K

March 4, 2012 at 9:17am

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2K2, The NY Times articles speaks of tensions but doesn't support you comment that: K2K "Peretz is out-of-date on Bronx HS of Science. I lost track after half of the Social Studies teachers were forced out by one of Bloomberg's new principals, immersed in the student-centered self-learning theories that requires the teachers to be as silent as possible lest they interfere with the students teaching each other in forced group activities." You tend to take some incident and re-interpret it as if it were something political. Here you claimed that "Social Studies teachers were forced out by one of Bloomberg's new principals," Where does the article mention Bloomberg? Here is the relevant quote: "In interviews with seven current and former Bronx Science teachers, blame was placed on the school administration, particularly its principal, Valerie Reidy. Ms. Reidy has been at the school for 34 years, and principal since 2001." How is Ms. Reidy "Bloomberg's principle?" And how did these tensions (which are present in most schools from time to time) affect the overall standing of the Bronx HS School of Science? btw: I also missed the quote from your post above in the NY Times article: 03/03/2012 - 11:30am EDT | K2K "Peretz is out-of-date on Bronx HS of Science. I lost track after half of the Social Studies teachers were forced out by one of Bloomberg's new principals, immersed in the student-centered self-learning theories that requires the teachers to be as silent as possible lest they interfere with the students teaching each other in forced group activities. I was trying to re-train as a teacher, but knew it was folly when one of my grad school professors questioned why I wanted to take a course on teaching literacy. She exclaimed"I thought you wanted to teach Social Studies. What does literacy have to do with that?"" Where is this last quote from?

- arnon1

March 4, 2012 at 9:56am

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Mr. Bulbman - I do believe that public education is facing many challenges - in CA stemming primarily from the on going effects of Proposition 13 and an ever expanding clientele that is poorer and darker than back in the days that you appear to venerate - but in examining them, citing FOX news cant about demonic elites, so called loss of liberty, and desertion of Constitutional principles only shows that you are not serious about the issue and only interested tossing about ad hominem and baseless polemics. The thing that I liked about this article is that Peretz briefly tackles the underlining theocratic zealotry a large portion of the home schooling community. These are people who really do not believe in democratic plurality and the separation of church and state. They also carry with them a huge distrust of government, and from what I can see, it is because they have been convinced that government exists only to serve 'bad" (read non white) people. I think a longer and more challenging article on home schooling is recommended. And this jaimechuch person is insane. It just boggles my mind that anyone would engage with anyone who is so obviously disturbed and plainly unbalanced.

- MrCookie1

March 4, 2012 at 11:37am

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We all went to public schools. Our children two are MD's, one chemical engineer and mathematician, one business administration and law. Two daughters two sons. Simply said the opportunities are there. We have lived in New Jersey, Delaware.

- JAIMECHUCH

March 4, 2012 at 12:12pm

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Mr. Jaimechuch - I applaud the success of your children. Obviously, you and your wife are fine parents who have raised successful children. You must be proud. I do have a suggestion - The next time you feel an impulse to send one of your usual screeds, ask yourself, what would my children say if they read this post? I suggest that if you do this every time you send a post, the readability of your contributions will markedly improve. Sincerely, KG

- MrCookie1

March 4, 2012 at 12:24pm

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Mr Cookie1. Thank you for your comments. Yes my late wife was a terrific mother. I just pushed our children to study. I will take your advise at full value. However my children, God bless them, except my younger, I don't think they like me very much. They don't know about my rantings, otherwise maybe I would be institutionalized by them. On the other hand I have been answering to vicious attacks, excluding distinguished gentleman roidubouloi. Don't be misguided by Mr. skahn, that we had a friendly relation until w/o warning he proceeded to ignore me when he found I respected religion, although I am secular. Sincerely JG-E

- JAIMECHUCH

March 4, 2012 at 1:22pm

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I am secular but also Jewish Buddhist, a secular Jew Bud. Buddhists advise to avoid negative karma individuals like arnon1, noga1, nr106646, recently ironyroad. I am doing it. Of course I always have skipped Packard apparently dedicated entirely to attack me, that is standard procedure used by paid Iranian bloggers, I have encountered in other places.

- JAIMECHUCH

March 4, 2012 at 1:32pm

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Folk wisdom advises that the pot calling the kettle black is a ludicrous and even embarrassing sight (to the disadvantage of the pot).

- ironyroad

March 4, 2012 at 2:01pm

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"The exception is that, surprise, surprise, upper middle class American children are well educated. For genetic and other reasons they are and always will be. " Genetic reasons? Now I'm beginning to understand why you are bent as you so obviously are.

- scrubby

March 4, 2012 at 2:34pm

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My above comment is for the bulb man. He comes bearing light.

- scrubby

March 4, 2012 at 2:38pm

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JG-E Here is some advice that helped me: Re calibrate your posting perspective towards engaging friends, not necessarily answering critics. On line posting will always subject us to criticism, some of it juvenile, nonsensical, and maddening. However, I have made some very good friends here at tnr - Jack R, Itzik, Neil P, so many others - and these friends have helped me to rein in my more aggressive, ill considered tendencies. And, as in life, people who care about us will always tell us when we're making a complete ass of ourself. Now, this is always a challenge for me with Marty's posts but I do my best to not go viral because I know that Jack R and Itzik will be reading and if I get too offensive, they will tell me. So, it is a subtle shift. Last, when I do get criticism, I do my best to answer in an even tone and not get too street.

- MrCookie1

March 4, 2012 at 2:56pm

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Chuch keeps changing his posts to suit the moment. None of his self claims can be verified. Does anyone really believe what Chuch says about himself? Today he is a Jekyl "Jew-Bud" he will become Mr. Hyde. Are his actions voluntary or does he have a compulsion to annihilate does he thinks are against him? Let's find out.

- Packard

March 4, 2012 at 3:35pm

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KG thank you. Will follow.

- JAIMECHUCH

March 4, 2012 at 3:44pm

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packard, let sleeping dogs lay.

- arnon1

March 4, 2012 at 3:52pm

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BTW. My late wife graduated as teacher, and concert pianist. We were married took care of the children. Once the children grew, she obtained a degree in biotechnology worked for a large chemical company. On retirement she went to UD, got a degree in languages Italian and French. Myself I got a PhD in chemical engineering, worked for a large chemical company. Retired.

- JAIMECHUCH

March 4, 2012 at 3:54pm

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arnon1. Thank you.

- JAIMECHUCH

March 4, 2012 at 3:56pm

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However I may add I have never read even one of Packard's posting I successfully skipped all of them.

- JAIMECHUCH

March 4, 2012 at 6:00pm

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Mr. Cookie, you are so out of connection with reality. That you claim that the only problem with public education is lack of funding shows that you are utterly clueless. Intelligent liberals don't believe that garbage. See the article in the liberal New Yorker about how in NYC you can't fire even child abusers so long as they are members of a teachers' unions. (If that doesn't make you feel sick to your stomach then you are beyond help.) Sheesh, even the Obama administration has been forced to pay lip service, however insincere, to education reform. The fact is that public education has become a racket. It is dominated by bloated educrat bureaucracies and unions who are concerned above all with their own financial self-interest. I have a friend whose politics are far left liberal. He teaches in the public schools, and he agrees with with most of most of my opinions on the subject of education. Reality has a way of trumping ideology, at least among the the minority of the population who are capable of thinking for themselves.

- bulbman1066

March 5, 2012 at 1:52am

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Mr. Bulbman, My example of how the funding mechanism in CA has slowly strangled the K though UC system in this state is not an example of ideology but pure structural fact. Also, if you read my post closely, you will be reminded that that was only one of the two factors I cited in that short post. There are lots of problems with public sector unions for sure but it is a canard that you cannot fire public employees for performance. How do I know this? Because in my long admin career, I have done it. It takes time, it takes patience - about 2 years - but it can be accomplished. As for child abusers, I cannot comment on the NY situation but in my state, chid abuse is punishable by progressive discipline and depending upon the severity of the offense, could very well be lead to dismissal at the first incident. The thing that is most challenging about your argument is your projection of intent and dialectic criticism: you accuse me of ideological blinders. Perhaps. However, everything you say has almost no basis in fact or experience. You cite a friend, you rattle off boiler plate conservative talking points that are all rooted in extreme ideological biases. In other words Mr. Bulbman, your opinions are just that: opinions, with almost no basis in experience, factual analysis or even context. This is a familiar strain in your comments in general, I am afraid.

- MrCookie1

March 5, 2012 at 7:39am

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arnon asked K2K: "Where is this last quote from?" after copying from my first comment in this thread: "I knew it was folly when one of my grad school professors questioned why I wanted to take a course on teaching literacy. She exclaimed"I thought you wanted to teach Social Studies. What does literacy have to do with that?"" gee arnon, that was a direct quote of one of my professors to me when I was trying to get permission to take a grad school course on teaching methods for Literacy scheduled for summer, 2004. I finally, after weeks and three other professors, got permission. Paid the tuition from my savings. Showed up only to find someone had changed the class from Literacy to Teaching methods for English, and it was all about finding post-modern literary sources the 'students' could relate to. So, I never learned how to teach literacy, which was the single biggest problem I was observing in high schools throughout the Bronx. anyway, I have no intention of being further lured into your trap. I was physically in the classrooms of Bronx Science. I know what has gone wrong under Bloomberg's education program. end of thread for me.

- K2K

March 5, 2012 at 8:45am

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K2K: The Bronx High School of Science and Stuyvesant High School deserve their place in the sun. What is missing from the consciousness of elite alumni of "Science" and "Stuy" is the world renowned pre-eminance of Brooklyn Technical High School, the leader in mathematics, technology, engineering, etc. etc. etc. It should be noted that BTHS alumni raised $20 million in private funds to keep Brooklyn Tech at the cutting edge of innovation. More innovation and educational excellence is on the way!

- LawrenceGulotta

March 5, 2012 at 9:49am

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Since the comments section to a Marty Peretz article is a safe place to ask questions, I would like some perspective on Rick Santorum's home schooling efforts -- namely, why is a fervent Catholic like himself home-schooling his children as opposed to sending them to Catholic schools? Isn't the whole ethos of the Catholic Church that parents are not sufficient to teach the Catechism and basics of Canon Law to children, but that this requires ordained priests and nuns? What's the deal here? It's not like he lives in the middle of Wyoming, where there may not be enough Catholics around to form a school. Similarly, it's not like he's being forced to send his children to "watered-down" Catholic schools near home -- certainly he and other conservative Catholics like him at St. Catherine of Siena parish can form their own school to emphasize the teachings of John Paul I and Benedict XVI in preference to those of Vatican II. What am I missing here?

- wildboy

March 5, 2012 at 4:34pm

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Really, really, TNR needs to start a junior edition before the entire subscriber base (not just me and other people I won't mention) slide into senility/dementia. I have a proposal. I will suggest my 8-year-old non-genetic granddaughter who attends a private school for young geniuses and who has two mommies and two daddies (so she bathes each morning in the essence of political correctness) become a staff writer for TNR Jr. Her first assignment: attend a screening of The Lorax and write a review.

- skahn

March 5, 2012 at 5:17pm

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