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Go Home Eternal Damnation of the Spotless Mind

POLITICS JANUARY 13, 2009

Eternal Damnation of the Spotless Mind

BY BERNARD-HENRI LEVY

I write this in remembrance of the renowned Turkish-Armenian journalist Hrant Dink, murdered two years ago, on Jan. 19, 2007, for his comments on the slaughter of up to 1.5 million Armenians by Ottoman forces during WWI ... in horror that the police officers guarding the 17-year-old murder suspect, Ogun Samast, saw fit to take a video in which he proudly held the Turkish flag as they recorded their brief association with him for posterity ... in solidarity with the brave group of 200 Turkish writers and intellectuals who recently signed an online petition apologizing for the massacre, risking their freedom to keep pressure on the Turkish government.

Outrages like Dink's murder will continue. They will continue as long as Turkey, fearing the loss of prestige and alarmed by the possibility that it will be obliged to pay reparations to survivors and their descendants, continues to deny that the Armenian genocide took place. This struggle will continue as long as there are no laws in place penalizing genocide denial -- and these laws are needed not only in Turkey, but around the world.

Critics may say, "It is not for the law to write history." That is absurd. History has been written a hundred times over. The facts have been established, and new laws will protect them from being altered.

In 1929, the British statesman and author Winston Churchill wrote that the Armenians were victims of genocide, an organized enterprise of systematic annihilation. The Turks themselves have admitted it. In 1918, in the aftermath of WWI, Mustafa Kemal -- soon to be granted the honorific "Ataturk" -- recognized the massacres perpetrated by the Young Turk government.

The laws already in place in many countries regarding Holocaust denial do not touch historians -- for them the question of whether the slaughter of the Jews was or was not genocide is no longer at issue. What is at stake is preventing the erasure of such crimes from our society's memory.

Take France's Gayssot law, which criminalized the denial of crimes against humanity, and which as yet has been applied only to denial of the Jewish Holocaust. This is a law that reins in the fringe and extremist politicians who engage in lightly cloaked anti-Semitism and who may be tempted to advocate Holocaust denial. This is a law that prevents masquerades like that of historian David Irving's trial in London in 2000.

Irving brought a libel case against Deborah Lipstadt, author of "Denying the Holocaust," who had labeled him a spokesman for Holocaust deniers. Though the judge ruled in notably strong language that Irving was indeed a Holocaust denier, in the absence of laws penalizing this offense, Irving walked free. Meanwhile, the tabloid journalists and talking heads muddied the issues and ultimately drew more attention to Irving's work, which may well have been his intention all along.

Critics will say, "Where will the law stop?" since technically we could also extend this law to include the denial of the crimes that took place during the colonial era, the publication of the Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, even the sin of blasphemy. Must we forbid the expression of opinions that do not mirror our own? This is a trap, for two reasons.

First, the law would be focused specifically on genocide, a large-scale criminal enterprise in which, as Hannah Arendt said, someone gets to decide who has the right and who does not to inhabit this earth. Second, the deniers don't just have conflicting or nonconformist opinions. They categorically deny that this horrific crime took place at all.

The logic and pattern of the crime of genocide was clarified and refined over the 20th century, with the massacre of Armenians as a seminal event. Hitler was impressed, nay, inspired by the scope of the Armenian genocide. In August 1939, days before he invaded Poland, he said to his generals, "Who still talks nowadays about the extermination of the Armenians?"

It was a genocidal test firing. It was the basis for the Allies' use of the phrase "crimes against humanity" in their May 24, 1915 statement regarding the massacre of Armenians "with the connivance and help of the Ottoman authorities." It was a reference for the Polish jurist Raphael Lemkin -- who coined the term "genocide" and is responsible for developing our understanding of this crime -- when he was incorporating the definition of "genocide" into the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.

I have spent some time perusing the Armenian genocide deniers' literature, which is remarkably similar to the literature on the destruction of the Jews. The same arguments minimizing the number of deaths ("sure, there were some, but not as many as they say") and the same reversing of roles -- just as Holocaust deniers render the Jews responsible for the war and their own martyrdom, their Turkish counterparts claim the Armenians betrayed the Ottomans by allying with the Russians, thus sealing their own fate.

Some may ask, "Can't the truth defend itself?" No, I am afraid not. Consider that in 1942, Heinrich Himmler, the head of the SS, ordered the formation of Sonderkommando 1005, whose mission it was to dig up the dead, to burn their bodies and dispose of the ashes. In one of his memoirs of the camps, Primo Levi recalled that the SS militiamen enjoyed admonishing their prisoners that when the war was over, there would not be a single Jew left to testify and if by chance one did survive, they would do whatever was necessary to make sure his testimony would not be believed.

A similar logic drives those who proclaim to Armenians, "No, your brothers and sisters are not dead. Your parents, grandparents and great-great-grandparents are not dead, as you're so foolishly claiming." Such statements betray the absolute, insane hatred they harbor, against which factual evidence and debate are useless and the truth is impotent.

Laws prohibiting Holocaust denial are expressions of the fact that genocide, a perfect crime, leaves no traces. In fact, the obliteration of those traces is genocide's final phase. Holocaust deniers are not merely expressing an opinion; they are perpetrating a crime.

Bernard-Henri Levy's new book, Left in Dark Times: A Stand Against The New Barbarism, was published in September by Random House. This article was translated from the French by Sara Sugihara.

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238 comments

i find it quite interesting that there are so many developed countries in the world which recognize the armenian genocide yet the united states does not. merely a few weeks ago CNN reporter Amanpour had a special program which was to reflect on genocide and the worlds reactions to it. unfortunately i saw barely anything in the report about the armenian genocide and particularly disturbing was the exclusion of the active denial that the turkish government engages in. The armenian genocide is not merely "not admitted to" but there is out right historical revisionists out there paid by the turkish nation to spread lies and teach a false history in american universities. Its a shame when it happens anywhere but when Hrant Dink had to courage to speak out in turkey when faced with endless death threats, then there is no reason for american journalists and politicians to be in fear. The united states will not be blackmailed by foreign countries especially when the fate of humanity and the human civilization is at stake everytime that we deny the inhumanities of man against man.

- James

January 7, 2009 at 8:05am

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Bravo Mr. Levy. Your piece lays out with absolute clarity why recognition of the Armenian Genocide is so vitally important. Very well said.

- Anoosh

January 7, 2009 at 8:40am

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Levy's comments are biased, erroneous, and incomplete. The truth is not in what Levy says, but what he doesn't say. He doesn't tell you that Armenians toop up arms against their government, used their women and children as cover and later as human shields, resorted to terrorism, and perhaps worst of all, treason. Armenians demanded lands where they were a minority and tried to enforce their demands by the use of violence against Muslim, mostly Turkish, women and children. When the Armenians finally took by force the city of Van from their own government and turned it over to the invading enemy, the Tsarist Russian armies, TERESET (temporary resettlement order) was issued, as a wartime home security measure. Levy must answer this: Did Jews establish Jewish armies behind German lines and rsort to mass scale rebellion, terrorism, and treason, in order to establish a Jewish state on German soil? Of course, not. But Armenians committed all of those heinous crimes in the Ottoman Empire. Levy's comments, therefore, are an insult to the silent memory of 6 million Jews killed by the Nazis. "Thousands of Armenians from all over the world, flocked to the standards of such famous fighters as Antranik, Kery, Dro, etc. The Armenian volunteer regiments rendered valuable service to the Russian Army in the years of 1914-15-16." Source: Kapriel Serope Papazian, Patriotism Perverted, Boston Baker Press, 1934, pg. 38 Since when is defending one's home considered a genocide? Ergun KIRLIKOVALI Son of Turkish-survivors from both maternal and paternal sides Western Regional Director Federation Of Turkish-American Assoc., New York www.turkla.com

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 7, 2009 at 11:00am

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Herni Levy's logic is circular and his "facts" are deceitful and misleading.
1. The Turks do not deny that the the crimes against the Armenians "took place at all". They only reject the use of the "genocide" label in describing the whole episode. If Henri Levy's position were truly so unassailable he would not have to make such misleading statements.
2. The supposed Hitler quote which he repeats has been shown to be unauthentic and is rejected by the highest scholars; he presents it as an undisputed "fact".
3. Contrary to Levy's allegation, opponents of the "genocide" label for this event do not base their objections on the number of deaths saying there were "not as many as they say". The objection is based primarily on the provocation by Armenian Revolutionaries. The well-documented inflated death count is merely a peripheral objection.
4. Levy's comments insinuate that the Christian Armenian's treasonous correspondence and collaboration with "Holy Russia" was negligible. In fact this collaboration resulted in huge numbers of non-combatant civilian deaths for the Turks. Levy denies this yet he accuses his ideological opponents of being "Deniers".
5. Levy's constant appeal to comparisons with SS men, Heinrich Himmler, David Irving, Holocaust deniers ...etc... only expose the hollowness and weakness of his position.

But the worst problem with the arguments of Levy who, it should be mentioned, holds a degree in Philosophy, is that his argument is circular. His argument in favor of a "Genocide Denial" law fails to recognize the fact that courts -not propagandists- decide whether a genocide has occurred. In the case of the Holocaust, a court was convened to examine all evidence with due regard for the rules of evidence following a procedure specifically intended to eliminate the influence of propagandists. The "Genocide Denial" laws which Armenians have argued for do not include provision for due process in deciding whether and how the "genocide" label should be applied. "Everybody knows" is not a sufficient proof. He argues that "Deniers" of the "genocide" claims of Armenian Propagandists must be punished on the grounds that "we all know" it was "genocide". No, we don't. There is a long list of authoritative, established Western Historians who reject the "genocide" label for the 1915 events.

- AmericanGuy

January 7, 2009 at 12:28pm

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I think Turkish society is becoming freer because one can publish articles without prior restraint showing solidarity with Armenain suffering, even in support of the Genocide thesis. The problems arise under Turkish law, which allows one to be prosecuted for support of the Genocide thesis, or anything any person feels insults Turkish history or people. Of even more concern is the Turkish government teaching its young systematically, since 2003 that Armenians killed 3M Turks. What grieves me most is that today there are multiple Turkish websites (Turkish Forum, turkla, etc.) which discuss Armenians of 1915 and of today in exactly the same way Nazis discussed Jews: that they are and were "traitors", that they "backstabbed" Moslems, that they are avaricious, liars, you get the flavor. You can read these things, sad to say, for yourself. For a dose of this statist racism, google the writings of a prominent Turkish-American columnist, Ergun Kirlikovali, who champions today the view that only 8,000 Armenians were murdered, saying they died in "feuds". He has gone so far as to joke about their deaths, comparing the deaths to the deaths of flies, in a blog on the Pasadena Star website, post 173, concerning his unsuccessful effort to promote a candidate for Congress, named Hahn.

- jda

January 7, 2009 at 3:09pm

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Why are you censoring my comments? You may like me or dislike me, but you should respect my opinion. Please post what I submitted this morning. Levy's outburst is biased, erroneous, and misleading. He takes Armenian claims at face value with no regard for Armenian rebellions, terrorism, treason, territorial demands, and the Turkish losses at Armenian hands which led to the TERESET (temporary resettlement) of the suspected Armenians. That same TERESET, a wartime defensive measure taken purely for home security reasons, is deliberately misrepresented to the unsuspecting reader as genocide. Since when defending one's home considered a crime? Ergun Kirlikovali Son of Turkish Survivors from both Paternal and Maternal sides www.turkla.com

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 7, 2009 at 5:42pm

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As if on cue, Mr. Kirlikovali has posted here just the types of remarks which Bernard-Henri Levy likens to Nazi and Holocaust Denialist propoganda: No Armenians died to speak of, but as traitors and backstabbers they got what they deserved. But Kirlikovali is only a small particle of an impressive Turkish and Ottoman attack machine which for over 94 years has done everything it can do to suppress even the discussion of the Armenian, Assyrian and Greek Genocides. The problem now is that the machine must focus not only on Armenians, Assyrians, Greeks, French and Americans, not to mention the historical record, but also on its own people, such as a growing number of Turkish scholars who conclude that a Genocide occurred, and the 26,000 brave Turks who signed the apology petition three weeks ago. From at least 1935 through today, the Turkish state has done what it could - and as a major nation it can do a lot - to suppress in this country the open debate of the Armenian, Assyrian and Pontic and other Greek Genocides, including the Greeks of Smyrna. In 1934, Turkish ambasador Ertegun openly threatened MGM and warned the United States Department of State of a bad Turkish reaction if Franz Werfel's book The 40 Days of Musa Dagh (a true account of how 5,000 Armenian villagers held off a murderous Ottoman Army until rescued by French warships) was made into a film. It worked. The film was not made. And, we have seen the Turkish state threaten the United States time and time again if the House merely passes a resolution calling the events of 1915-1923 a Genocide, something Ronald Reagen did while President. Our "ally" interferes with our democracy every day. A favorite technique is to attribute Armenian deaths to "civil war". However, even the Denialists' current favorite academic, Guenter Lewy, wrote in his 2005 book that this claim is a "travesty of history", and he approved a Turkish historian's conclusion that the Armenians suffered "colossal crimes" throughout Anatolia and beyond at the hands of the Ottomans. Lewy concluded that this "civil war" mainstay of Turkish-American lobbying efforts is without historical conscience. Page 122 of his work, which otherwise denies Genocide on the theory that the Ottoman leaders were too disorganized to pull it off. Today in the United States, Genocide Denial uses a folksy and "aw shucks" demeanor. The Turks have hired disgraced former House Republican Bob Livingstone to tell Americans just what didn't happen: that somehow, hundreds of thousands of unarmed civilians who died at the hands of Ottoman state actors while under guard on deportation marches were actually "civil war" combatants. The Turkish state figures that a little bit of mud will confuse things. I urge you all to read what the Turkish state says, and how its leading politicians and "historians" to this day refer to Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians as "the enemy".

- jda

January 7, 2009 at 6:58pm

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And of course the deniers immediately come out of the woodwork... Mr. Krilikovali's mentality is still genocidal: If someone is organizing armies to fight against you, then you slaughter the entire civilian population of that someone. What did the Armenian women and children have to do with Armenian self-defense forces operating against Turkish and Kurdish death squads? Furthermore, why was my gradnfather's family, like hundreds of thousands like his living in and around Istambul, away from any miliary activity, away form the Russian front, subjected to the "deportation" and the ensuing slaughter??? I think Mr. Kirlkovali, as a bearer of this uniquely genocidal mentality, is qualified to answer the question.

- John

January 7, 2009 at 7:22pm

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jda is an Armenian cyber-stalker who like to post convoluted messages insulting, libeling, ridiculing, and/or even threatening me. He must be upset at me for asking him two questions he could never respond:

1- How many Muslims, mostly Turks, did Armenian kill during World War One?

2- Were Armenian clergymen physically involved in those raids and killings?

I ignore the rest of jda's falsifications and misrepresentations about me. I always write my full name and never hide behind obscure intials or fake names. Let the readers judge who to trust: the tricky Armenian or the honest Turk.

Ergun Kirlikovali

Son of Turkish Survivors from both Paternal and Maternal Sides

www.turkla.com

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 7, 2009 at 7:30pm

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Please get a life Mr. Kirlikovali. This is already the third forum you have disrupted in the past 2 weeks with your mindless drivel and denial of the Armenian Genocide. Already enough scholars have put this issue to rest and the consensus is, a genocide indeed happened and the Turks are to blame. I'm not surprised how handicapped you are with all this propaganda you have been raised with.

- Armen Manukyan

January 7, 2009 at 7:45pm

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its funny when people justify the killing of my people by treason. first of all, there has been no evidence of a large scale collective rebellion. people dont want to die like sheep, that why they fight back. the same happened in the jewish gulags. second to say that armenians joined and faught witht the russians was warrant enough for deportations is insane. what most people dont know is that there were more jews and azeris serving in the russian army than any group of armenians. why werent jews and azeris "reloacted"? the fact remains clear genocide denial is present all over the world. it is happening today in darfur, turkey, japan, russia, the list goes on. and one needs to ask "why"? but i dont feel the need any more to privide facts and figures. deniers will always deny. that is what they do. i know what happened, and most respected historians know what happened too. i dont need the recognition of a turk to justify myself!

- tigran

January 7, 2009 at 11:36pm

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I disagree as a Turkish academic with any laws prohibiting speech apart from inciting violence,inducing fraud, or other wrongful conduct. I agree utterly with the evil of Genocide denial in the cases of Armenians and our other perished minorities. To quote Berktay,a Turkish historian, I am full of revulsion at my former government's denials.I am even more disgusted at my countrymen in this nation who kill the Armenian dead of 1915 over and over. Honoring what is good in our culture does not require hating Anyone.

- burcu

January 7, 2009 at 11:40pm

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Thank you Mr. Levy for your article. It is a sad truth that the cozy political relationship Turkey has enjoyed with the West, with a good measure of periodic bullying, has enabled successive Turkish governments to make a mockery out of an in-your-face truth of the systematic destruction of the Armenians of the Ottoman Empire, only to be patted on the back by the West, led famously by successive US administrations. This in turn seems to have given the Turks more freedom to be even more bolder in their officially sanctioned lies. But today, all of a sudden, we have witnessed these brave Turkish individuals who decided enough was enough with lies and defied a long held erroneous, if not altogether fictitious, views of Turkish "innocence" towards the Armenians, brainwashed into the Turkish public consciousness for so many decades. More than 200 writers and academics issued an apology to the Armenians for their suffering and having been unjustly ignored for almost a century. BRAVO to them! Within a month almost 27000 signatures have been collected. This apology that does not even mention the word "genocide" of course does not sit well with Turks who have imbedded hatred towards the Armenians and use every opportunity to attack all those who do not agree with them, now apparently it is in you who they see a biased and an unjust individual. How pitifully sad indeed. As much as I believe in absolute freedom of speech, I find the harsh measure of making it illegal to deny the Armenian genocide an effective tool against a well-financed anti-Armenian campaign of the Turkish government. A law that punishes the denial of the Armenian genocide is an unfortunate necessity, at least at this stage of the struggle when one sees how Turkey bullies the entire NATO alliance into submission on this issue. One hopes such legal norms would be rendered as obsolete once the Turkish government listens to its intellectuals, its people and puts an end to futile attempts to deny the undeniable and finally apologizes to the Armenian people for the Genocide of 1915 and paves the way for a truly lasting peace and friendship.

- Zareh

January 8, 2009 at 1:03am

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1. The Armenians are sure that Armenian genocide really occured and claim that Turkey does not want to face with her history. On the other hand, they persistently refuse Turkey’s suggestions to discuss these events together with historians from both sides, in spite of this claim. For example: *In 2004, the Viennese Armenian-Turkish Platform (VAT) was founded to exchange documents about the 1915 events by Austrian, Turkish and Armenian historians. After receiving 100 Turkish documents, the Armenians refused to send their documents which they promised, to the Turkish historians and afterwards the Armenian foreign minister announced that they did not want to discuss the 1915 events with historians. *Armenia refused the Turkish prime minister's and the Turkish Assembly's invitation announced on April 13, 2005 which suggested to establish a Joint Commission composed of historians from both sides and discuss the events which took place during the 1st World War. *Turkey sent full page ads to five popular newspapers of the United States (US) calling on Armenia to ‘bring light the events of 1915 together with Turkey and to establish a joint commission composed of historians from both sides in addition to historians from other nations’, in April 2007. *And the Turkish prime minister repeated the same invitation on February 2008 , in Munich at the 44th Security Conference where the Armenian Minister of Foreign Affairs Mr. Oskanian also attended? In neither of these invitations was there any precondition, unlike it is claimed by the Armenians. *Why did the Armenian historian Sarafyan, who accepted the invitation of the then chief of Turkish History Foundation, Halacoglu, for cooperation to investigate Harput events, abandon the project, after talking the Armenian diaspora?

- akasya

January 8, 2009 at 5:57am

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3. If a genocide had really occured, why did Brian Ardouny of the Armenian Assembly of America announce ‘We don’t need to prove the genocide historically, because it has already been accepted politically’? Why did the chief of the Armenian Archives in Armenia tell that they were not interested in the achives, but all they are interested is the world’s public opinion. In your life, have you ever seen a criminal who persistently calls the victim to bring his evidences? And, have you ever seen a victim who passionately accuses somebody of committing crime and giving him great harm but strictly avoids of bringing his proofs before the referees or going to court, and tells that he need not prove that person’s guilt, because the community has already accepted him as guilty? In this situation would you not ask the question of in which era you are living. 5000 BC or 7000 BC?

- akasya

January 8, 2009 at 5:59am

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American (Turkish) Guy- You may not want to call what your Turkish forebearers did to its Armenian subject population a "Genocide" and that is certainly your right. However, you should not defame Mr. Levy by calling his comments "misleading" and "deceitful" when the Turkish murder of over 1.5 million Armenians was cited by Rafael Lemkin himself as one of the factors he considered when he coined the word genocide. Moreover, the unbiased (not paid off by the Turkish Government) International Conference of Genocide Scholars has unequivocally determined that the Turkish actions toward the Armenians in 1915 constituted Genocide. So, American (Turkish) Guy- you may argue that the Armenians "had it coming." You can shout that they were treasonous and deserved to die. But, you are WRONG. When the Young Turks decreed that they would forcibly evict over a million and a half Armenian men, women and children from the land that had been their home for centuries, forced them at gunpoint to march into the Der Zor desert without food or water, shot, raped and stabbed them on the way, and left them to die they committed TEXTBOOK genocide. Now you try to claim that this is an issue for the "courts" or for a "Joint Commission." I am an attorney and I will share something with you. This is not an issue for the courts or any type of trumped up joint commission. History is history. Facts are facts. Photos and documents and non-Turkish and non-Armenian eye-witness accounts lay out all anyone needs to know. Do yourself a favor...stop fighting history and admit the truth. Then move on. Your idiotic denialist actions have brought much more attention to this issue than a simple acknowledgment would have done.

- Anoosh

January 8, 2009 at 8:41am

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More race hatred from Mr. Kirlikovali, the "Western Regional Director Federation Of Turkish-American Assoc., New York www.turkla.com" [post 9, above]: "Let the readers judge who to trust: the tricky Armenian or the honest Turk." A theme of both Nazi propaganda and the Turkish kind exemplified by the highly placed Mr. Kirlikovali, is the portrayal of the Armenian victim of 1915 as a trickster, a liar, a deceiver. This in part dehumanizes the victim of Genocide, and seeks to fortify the oppressor image as an honest person who would never brutalize anyone. The trickster's complaints of oppression, massacre, exile and ultimately Genocide are to be disbelieved, and his grandson's assertion of Genocide is to be thrown out for that reason. Mr. Kirlikovali, in your fevered efforts to explain away Genocide and dehumanize Armenians, you prove one of Levy's points. I recomemnd readers google Kirlikovali's name to get a fuller picture of the race hatred at the top of the Turkish-American establishment, which hobnobs with lobbyists and former Members of Congress Livingstone and Gephardt, and members like Dan Burton, Robert Wexler, and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (whom I believe Mr. Kirlikovali supports with campaign contributions).

- jda

January 8, 2009 at 11:02am

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To Armen Manukyan (1 of 2): you say “ This is already the third forum you have disrupted…” So when a pro-Armenian view is represented, it is a forum; when a Turkish-American responds, it is disruption, is that right? If this is not bias, bigotry, and racism, I don’t know what is. I got just the quote for you that will please you: “All Turkish children also should be killed as they form a danger to the Armenian nation" Source: Hamparsum Boyaciyan, nicknamed "Murad," a former Ottoman parliamentarian who led Armenian guerilla forces, ravaging Turkish villages behind the lines, 1914. Cited from Mikael Varandean, "History of the Dashnaktsutiun. What genocide are you talking about?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 8, 2009 at 12:00pm

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To Armen Manukyan (2 of 2) : You say “Already enough scholars have put this issue to rest and the consensus is, a genocide indeed happened”. History is not a matter of “consensus, political resolutions, biased op-eds, or hysterical demonstrations.” History is a matter of research, peer review and reasoned debate, which people like you are preventing by resorting to intimidation, threats, lies, libel, and even violence. Dr. Gwynne Dyer, a London-based independent journalist, put it best in 1976, when he wrote: “… The deafening drumbeat of the propaganda, and the sheer lack of sophistication in argument which comes from preaching decade after decade to a convinced and emotionally committed audience, are the major handicaps of Armenian historiography of the diaspora today…”

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 8, 2009 at 12:08pm

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To Tigran (1 of 2) : You say “ first of all, there has been no evidence of a large scale collective rebellion” Facts, however, belie your claims. "The Moslems who did not succeed in escaping [Bitlis] were put to death..." Grace H. Knapp, The Tragedy of Bitlis, Fleming H. Revell Co., New York (1919) , page 146. Here is one of hundreds of Armenian rebellions that no one talks about and others deny. "Thousands of Armenians from all over the world, flocked to the standards of such famous fighters as Antranik, Kery, Dro, etc. The Armenian volunteer regiments rendered valuable service to the Russian Army in the years of 1914-15-16." Source: Kapriel Serope Papazian, Patriotism Perverted, Boston Baker Press, 1934, pg. 38 And here is wide scale treason that Armenians deny. Truth is painful, isn’t it?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 8, 2009 at 12:16pm

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To Tigran (1 of 2) : You say “ people don’t want to die like sheep, that why they fight back. “ Historical facts refute your distortions: . "Only 1,500 Turks remain in Van" Source: The Gochnag, an Armenian newspaper published in the United States, May 24,1915 ... in a proud report documenting the slaughter of the Turkish citizenry of Van. What self-defense are you talking about?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 8, 2009 at 12:19pm

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To Burcu (1 of 2): First of all, I know you are that same Armenian who like to deceive people by introducing multiple messages under many fake names ( jda, ararat53, pierre, manukyan, etc. Etc.) I know you cyber-stalk me to lie about my record, libel me, intimidate or even threaten me. But I will turn this ignominy into something positive by responding to your misrepresentations as if they were questions asked by honest truth-seekers: Berktay you quoted, like Taner Akcam his buddy, are paid Armenian agents who share thesame dark secret: both were on the “wanted” posters of Turkish police in 1970s (to see the original poster, please click on this link: www.tallarmeniantale.com )

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 8, 2009 at 12:33pm

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To Burcu (actually an Armenian posing as a Turk to mislead the TNR readers- 2 of 2) You say “ Honoring what is good in our culture does not require hating Anyone. “ If you are writing as an American, you are right. But if you are writing as an Armenian, you are wrong. Most Armenians in diaspora have never met a Turk and yet they already hate them intensely, enough to kill them. Examples: Yanikian killed two Turkish diplomats in Santa Barbara in 1973; Sasssonian killed one Turkish diplomat in Los Angeles in 1982; Topalian was caught by FBI planning bombings and storing explosives next to a daycare center, a school, and a gas station ion Ohio, convicted, and served a prison term. All these terrorists are cherished and revered by the Armenians as heroes and collections are taken in Armenian churches for legal defense funds. . Need I say more about who is full of hatred and vengeance?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 8, 2009 at 12:34pm

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To Zareh (again that cheating Armenian writing under yet another alias) “Within a month almost 27000 signatures have been collected.” First, it is two montsh and second the no-apology signatures are reaching one million (that’s a ratio of 37 to 1). We do have anti-Tyrkish government and aneti-Turkish state people who are free to say what they want in Turkey which refutes Armenian arguments that dissent about Turkish official views are not allowed in Turkey. If two good things came out of this apology campaign, they are a) the fact that it is established now that dissent is allowed in Turkey, refutign the Armenian lobby claims to otherwise; b) the amazing speed and determination with which one million Turks of all backgrounds (American, European, Asian, African, Australian) came together around a forceful message as if to say “Enoguh is enough” to Armenian liars (like this guy who writes under many fake names: jda, ararat, pierre, hasan, burcu, zareh, manukyan... )

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 8, 2009 at 12:42pm

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To Anoosh (if that’s your real name- yep, you guessed it. It is the same Armenian coward and a pathological liar who likes deceiving people with many fake names and messages: jda, ararat, pierre, hasan, burcu, zareh, manukyan ) This one is especially for you: “…For fourteen days, I followed the Euphrates; it is completely out of the question that I during this time would not have seen at least some of the Armenian corpses, that according to Mrs. Stjernstedt’s statements, should have drifted along the river en masse at that time. A travel companion of mine, Dr. Schacht, was also travelling along the river. He also had nothing to tell when we later met in Baghdad… …In summary, I think that Mrs. Stjernstedt, somewhat uncritically, has accepted the hair-raising stories from more or less biased sources, which formed the basis for her lecture…” H.J. Pravitz, A Swedish officer, Nya Dagligt Allehanda, 23 April, 1917 issue, (A Swedish Newspaper published from 1859 to 1944) This journalist eyewitness exposes the degree of Armenian lies and now you know how 54,000 Armenian dead (8 thousand documented for massacres and 48,000 due to hunger, epidemics) became 200,000 in the 29 March 1919 Paris Peace Conference reports and 1.5 million nowadays. Since the dead cannot multiply, we have to assume the number was artificially jacked up by cowardly liars like thisperson who calls himself Anoosh-Zareh-Burcu-Hasan-Manukyan-jda-etc.etc. Who do you trust? This Armenian liar or me, an honest Turk whois proud to write under his own birth-given name?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 8, 2009 at 12:50pm

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93+ years of smothering the truth about the Armenian Genocide; 93+ years of trying to build up the self-esteem of the Turkish people with nationalistic and racist policies and idealogy; 93+ years of teaching the Turkish people that Armenians are backstabbing parasites that deserved what they got. Is it any wonder that people like Kirlikovali exist and even form the mainstream of Turkish policy? From 2,000,000 people who lived on the land for almost 3 millenia, 1,800,000 disappeared from that land in just 3 years, and the mainstream Turkish thesis still in the year 2008 is that it was a civil war caused by the treacherous, backstabbing, parasitic . . . victims. Genocide deniers want rational people to believe that thesis.

- Phantom

January 8, 2009 at 5:28pm

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Throughout history, millions of civilians have perished in wars alongside the military. Not all of these deaths can be classified as genocide. For it to be genocide, the deaths must have resulted as a "deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group." Yes, the Jews did suffer genocide at the hands of the Germans. This was proven by the Nuremberg Trials. On the other hand, there has been no international court of justice that has proven that a genocide of the Armenians took place at the hands of the Turks. On the contrary, after WW I, a war-crimes tribunal set up on the island of Malta, where about 144 prominent Turks were brought to to be tried for the said-crimes, could not find evidence to convict the Turks of this crime; and they were all sent back home. Mr. Levy perhaps has not been made aware that the Armenians were not innocent bystanders like the Jews were in Germany. There were 100,000 well-armed Armenian militia that fought against the Ottoman army; The Armenians, including civilians, pillaged and burned down towns and villages. They wanted land from the Turks on which the Turks, and not they, were the majority. "The United Nations has not approved or endorsed a report labeling the Armenian experience as genocide." This statement was made by Farhan Haq, U.N. spokesman, on October 5, 2000; and to date, it stands. No declaration by academicians, the media, or parliaments of various countries, will establish genocide without an International Court of Justice verdict. The Armenians are free to bring their case to the Hague. Needless o say, they would first have to open their archives in Yerevan, Lebanon, and Boston -- which they refuse to do. Mrs. Erkin Baker

- Erkin Baker

January 8, 2009 at 6:27pm

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It is sad to see Turkish posters on multitude websites posting the same coordinated, word-for-word libelous claims and outrageous accusations that only serves to humiliate themselves. Worse, these posts essentially produce the opposite results for the Turks, besides the bankruptcy of their ideas a deeply seeded racist views emerge where it becomes clear that TRUTH is not what they are after. Mr. Kivrikovali has no shame in writing words that read right out of Nazi propaganda handbook: "Tricky Armenian vs Honest Turk", This is simply mind boggling. He has the gall to call Mr Levy "bias" and "misleading".

- Zareh

January 8, 2009 at 7:41pm

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Mr. Kirlikovali- Your irrational ranting and raving on this website and others like it shows the true depth of Turkish hatred. Websites likes yours and the others you cite simply spit hatred. Back in the day when Turkey allowed its citizens to access You Tube, Turks showed their venon under clips of aged Armenian Genocide survivors with ignorant, despicable and vile comments. Comments like, "I wish we had finished the job." or "My grandfather raped your grandmother...ha ha." Why don't you just pretend for one moment that you are not Turkish and have not based your entire existence on hate. Spend one month researching this issue using impartial sources. Pick up a copy of American Ambassador Morgenthau's eye-witness account of what was happening in Anatolia in 1915. Read about Ambassador Morgenthau's discussions with the Turkish masterminds of the Genocide and his pleas that they cease their evil plan. Research the archives of any of the major world newspapers at the time. And go back to Anatolia and wander through the Armenian villages, see Armenian homes and churches that have stood on that land for centuries and ask yourself where all of those Armenians went. You may not like what you find, but you will find the truth. By the way, why do you think that there is only one Armenian out here in cyberland who writes post after post under different aliases? That is a very narrow-minded and paranoid assumption. I write under the name Anoosh only. Despite your illogical suppositions, there are many of us who find your comments so deeply disturbing that we take time out of our lives to respond to you.

- Anoosh

January 9, 2009 at 7:32am

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I stumbled over this article. As a strnger to the Armenian issue, but the great grandson of Holocaust survivors, I am disgusted by the hate I read here by the Turkish groups representative Mr. Kirlikovali. I am deeply concerned that Turkish American groups have him in high office. As a member of several Jewish American groups, I will contact my organizations to ensure we do not ally with people who preach hate.

- peter goldwasser

January 9, 2009 at 11:12am

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As Genocide recognition here looms, the hatred boils over against Armenians. Turkey: you need a new PR firm, and some huamne spokesmen.

- jda

January 9, 2009 at 11:23am

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Bernard-Henri Levy’s lack of respect for genuine scholarship , it seems, is only matched with his selective morality. By taking Armenian claims at face value, he shows how easy a prey he is for the incessant Armenian propaganda. I am, of course, referring to his remembering Dink, but somehow, forgetting more than 40 Turkish diplomats, who were all killed by hate-filled Armenian assassins since 1973. I was one of the pall-bearers in 1982 of the Turkish consul general Kemal Arikan’s coffin. I didn’t see then any outpouring of condemnation by the Armenians in Los Angeles, the way Dink murder was protested in 2006 by Turks in Istanbul. Diaspora Armenians treated the young Armenian killer like a hero aand even took up collections for his legal defense. I don’t remember Levy writing any eulogies for the fallen Turkish victims of Armenian terrorism. Talk about double standards and hypocrisy.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 9, 2009 at 11:39am

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In this very same paper, exactly 80 years ago, almost to the date, a world renown American scholar, Professor John Dewey of Columbia University, New York, and who is referred to as one of America's quintessential thinkers and philosophers, wrote the following lines after visiting Turkey and studying the human tragedy there : “…Few Americans who mourn, and justly, the miseries of the Armenians, are aware that till the rise of nationalistic ambitions, beginning with the 'seventies, the Armenians were the favored portion of the population of Turkey, or that in the Great War, they traitorously turned Turkish cities over to the Russian invader; that they boasted of having raised an army of one hundred and fifty thousand men to fight a civil war, and that they burned at least a hundred Turkish villages and exterminated their population. I do not mention these things by way of appraising or extenuating blame because the story of provocations and reprisals is a futile as it is endless; but it indicates what happened in the past to both Armenian and Turkish populations …” Dewey was the rare American who scratched beneath the omnipresent anti-Turkish propaganda that was especially evident in the United States. Levy, on the other hand, will be remembered with his triviality and banality in his unfortunate op-ed above. What a striking contrast in the same space in just 80 years!

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 9, 2009 at 12:04pm

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Thank you Mr. Ergun Kirlikovali for proving Bernard-Henri Levy point. If ignorance was a blessing Sir, you would be a saint.

- Joe Urner

January 9, 2009 at 2:23pm

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To any Turkish American: Why is this racist Kirlikovali a spokesman here and on Turkish Forum? Certainly those who do not subscribe to the Genocide thesis can say what they want without calling Armenians of 1915 and today insulting and vile names. I urge you to google him and see even worse things he has said elsewhere.

- jda

January 9, 2009 at 5:04pm

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A Turkish prosecutor has opened an investigation that could lead to criminal charges against the authors of an online apology for the First World War killings of Armenians, state-run news agency Anatolian reported on Friday. The state prosecutor in Ankara is probing whether the group of intellectuals who offered the apology violated Article 301 of the Turkish penal code, which criminalizes "insulting the Turkish people," Anatolian reported. A big step backwards

- jda part 2

January 9, 2009 at 5:20pm

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why does the canny and accomplished Turkish American establishment hold out this racist Kirlikovali as its voice?

- jda

January 9, 2009 at 5:34pm

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TURKS CONDEMNED THE DINK KILLER; BUT ARMENIANS EMBRACED THE ARIKAN KILLER; THAT’S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TURKS AND ARMENIANS The members of Turkish-American community condemned the murder of Hrant Dink in the strongest possible language; expressed deep sorrow and conveyed heartfelt condolences to the victim’s family, friends, and, the entire Turkish nation. Turks also condemned the killing with their outpouring of heartfelt condolences; tens of thousands of Turks marched in Istanbul streets to protest. Public statements of sorrow and sympathy from top political leaders down to ordinary citizens covered the front pages of every newspaper. The killer’s own father actually turned his son in to the police!.. What more can any honest and fair person ask from a nation whose police caught the assassin within 36 hours!.. Now compare this Turkish reaction to the killing of an Armenian in Istanbul with the Armenian reaction to the killing of a Turk in Los Angeles. How did the Armenians react when the Turkish diplomat, Kemal Arikan, about the same age as Hrant Dink at the time of death, also married, also had kids, was assassinated in the same dastardly way as Hrant Dink, on January 27, 1982, in Los Angeles? Was any protest march organized spontaneously like the ones in Turkey? Did Armenians march down the Wilshire Avenue , for instance, shouting “We are all Kemal Arikan today” and “We are all Turks today”? Were there thousands of Armenians condemning a dastardly hate crime committed in our midst by a brainwashed young Armenian teenager , Hampig Sassoonian (the convicted Armenian killer, was 19 years old? ) Was there a massive opposition by Armenians to hate crimes victimizing Turks? Answers are: No, no, no, and no… How about the other two Turkish diplomats gunned down in Santa Barbara in 1973 by a hate-filled Armenian older man? Did anyone verbal, written, and/or organized protest then? Any march downtown? Any posters bearing the Turkish victims likeness? Any catchy slogans condemning Armenian terrorism? Anything? Answers are, again: No, no, no, no, and no… When you compare the reaction to hate crimes by nations, you know Turks passed the test of empathy, compassion and tolerance with flying colors. And Armenians flunked the test of empathy, compassion, and tolerance miserably, but did pass the test of hate-cultivation, vengeance, and venom with flying colors. I am not judging the Diaspora Armenians; the history of the last 30+ years is.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 9, 2009 at 5:55pm

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ARMENIANS TREATED THE ARMENIAN ASSASSIN LIKE A HERO! When a 17 year old Turkish kid killed an innocent Armenian writer, the killer’s Turkish father immediately turned him over to the police and the Turkish nation from top to bottom condemned the killer. The Turkish assassin and his hate crime were shown zero tolerance by Turks. But when Hampig Sassoonian, the 19 year old Armenian kid who killed an innocent Turkish diplomat, did the killer’s family turn him over to the LAPD? Of course not! In fact, far from it. The Armenian assassin was hidden from view in a series of safe Armenian homes until anonymous tips led to killer’s capture by LAPD. What did the Armenian Diaspora do? They sheltered the killer! As if that was not reprehensible enough, they then raised funds for the murderer's legal defense in Armenian churches. They held candle light vigils glorifying a brainwashed, bloodthirsty teenager assassin. They treated the 19-year-old Armenian assassin like a hero! When you compare these two diametrically opposite reactions against an identical hate crime 24 years and 10,000 miles apart, you cannot help but be impressed by the strong and swift Turkish protests condemning it and absolutely disgusted by the equally strong and determined Armenian embrace of it. This is a documented and irrefutable fact, etched in stone. Even the most biased and virulent Turk-hater should be able to see this big picture and hopefully wake up.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 9, 2009 at 5:57pm

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I PROTESTED THE DINK KILLING ALTHOUGH I STRONGLY DISAGREED WITH DINK’S VIEWS... I did not know Dink personally and I strongly disagreed with him on his characterization of Turkish-Armenian conflict during WWI. Here were our major differences: 1- Dink called it genocide, I know it was not; it was a civil war started by Armenian nationalists. 2- Dink was compassionate about the Armenian suffering and losses; I am compassionate about both Turkish and Armenian, as well as others’ suffering and losses during the same time period and in the same geography. I do not approve of selective morality, double standards, or hypocrisy. 3- Dink ignored or dismissed Armenian treason, revolts, and terrorism; I write about them all the time. 4- Dink hardly ever mentioned the Ottoman-Armenians who donned the uniforms of the invading Russian and French armies to kill their fellow Ottoman citizens, i.e. their Muslim neighbors; I stress that forgotten (or ignored) fact in my writings. 5- Dink wanted dialogue and peace; so do I along with 70 million Turks in Turkey and 5 million Turks around the globe. Dink thought dialogue and peace could come from, well, accepting Dink’s views. Whereas I think dialogue and peace can come from “learning about the other side of the story, namely the Turkish side and making room for Turkish suffering and losses (like my grandparents…)” If you want others to feel empathy for you, then you should not withhold it from others. 6- Dink did not dwell upon more than a million Azeri non-combatants, made refugees at gunpoint on their own soil in 1992 by the Armenians; I wrote about this shameful ethnic cleansing campaign waged in this day and age by Armenia frequently (it still continues as you read these lines.) 7- Dink did not condemn Armenian aggression in Karabagh and the wholesale massacre of the entire population of Khodjaly on February 19, 1992; I did, many times. 8- Dink wanted the Turkish-Armenian border opened, as he thought trade would improve relations and increase prosperity in the region. I want Armenia to end military occupation of Azerbaijan first, allow the 1+ million Azeri refugees to return to their homes in Karabagh and western regions of Azerbaijan, and recognize Turkey’s current borders, delegate the civil war/genocide debate to qualified historians with open access to all archives, then and only then, can the Turkish-Armenian border be opened. 9- While Dink, and many biased and ill-informed and hate-filled Diaspora Armenians and their self-serving allies, wanted Turkey to face her history; I wanted Armenians, and their many western allies, to face their own history along with Turks facing Turkish history (England, France, Russia, the U.S., and others, for example.) 10- Dink implied facing history would build a better future; I am saying facing Dink’s version of history is a bad idea due to falsified and biased nature of Dink’s version of history. As you can see, while Dink and I agreed on the need for calm dialogue and peace between the Turks and the Armenians, we disagreed on how to get there – and pretty much on everything else. Although these differences in opinion are stark, they are no reason for anyone to be hurt or shot. We should be able to settle our differences by words, not bullets. I still see some Armenians and their non-Armenian friends today, for example, who display zero tolerance for the other side of the story and act like crazed lynch mobs with their words and/or deeds. Last word: Let the unadulterated truth , not Armenian propaganda, resolve this controversial debate.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 9, 2009 at 5:57pm

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Let us reevaluate Armenia’s persistence on the word ‘genocide’ from a different perspective: Armenia’s attitude towards Turkey’s land integrity: Article 13 (second paragraph) of Armenian constitution declares the ‘Agri Mountain’ in the Eastern Anatolia of Turkey, as the state symbol of Armenia . Article 11 of the Armenian Declaration of Independence of August 23, 1990; refers to Eastern Anatolia of Turkey as Western Armenia and as such beholds that this area is part of Armenia. Since the Armenian constitution recognizes as a basis “the fundamental principles of the Armenian statehood and national aspirations engraved in the Declaration of Independence of Armenia”, it likewise accepts the characterization of Eastern Anatolia as Western Armenia and this, albeit indirectly, translates into the advancement of territorial claims. The Armenian politicians and school books call Eastern Anatolia of Turkey, ‘invaded mother land of Armenia’ and in Armenia the school children are being grown up being conditioned to be patriots to rescue their invaded land. Even the marches they sing are about this condition. The Armenians who write in such blogs that the Eastern Anatolia cities do not belong to Turkey, as if the present Eastern boundaries of Turkey was not determined by treaties of Gumru (1920), Moscow (1921) and the whole boundaries by Lausanne (1923) Treaties; after the Turkish Freedom War. Additionally Armenia refused Turkey’s recurrent offers to commit an agreement declaring that each country recognizes the other country’s land integrity, in 1992 and later. Why do the Armenians force Turkey to accept a genocide? The answer is hidden in a speech of the chief of Dashnak Party Hrant Markaryan who told that their efforts for the recognition of Armenian (so-called) genocide was not an isolated purpose but it was a part of the struggle for rescue of the West Armenia (Armenian Forum Vol2 No 4; Armenian Weekly On-line, 18 June, 4 July 2003). The Armenian then prime minister Andranik Markaryan told that the internationally recognition of (so called) Armenian genocide and demanding land from Ankara as 'compensation' was possible only after Armenia had strengthened and the Armenians should not have told that they demanded land from Ankara loudly and everywhere (Arminfo 26 May 2004). On one occasion President Kocharian stated that since today’s Armenia does not have the clout to advance such demands, doing so should be left to future generations at a time when conditions would hopefully be better suited to this end'. A poll taken in Armenia revealed that almost all youngsters in the Republic of Armenia wished to follow up with land claims from Turkey and 90% of them said Turkey must unequivocally accept genocide allegations (Milliyet - April 11, 2006). The world should not forget that Germany's claim on Zudetland and Gdansk just because they were its historical lands caused burst of World War II! History is full of wars which broke up because of claims of states on their historical lands. Yet, there are obvious evidences showing that the Armenians did not constitute the majority of the population in neither of the Ottoman provinces which the Armenians call Western Armenia and the Muslim population was 3 to 8 times more than that of the Armenian's ( (Ottoman Population Statistics 1890 and 1914). If an item like the aforementioned Armenian item were present in the lawbook of Mexico claiming that Texas, Arizonna, New Mexico and California which were historical lands of Mexico, belonged to Mexico but invaded, would the American tolerate it? Therefore the world should not overlook Armenia’s aggressivity, which is hidden behind their role of victim and should think about the price of their support to the Armenians very well. So, the most important question which should be asked now is whether the world politicians, journalists and supporters of human rights will go on falling within the scope of Armenian propagandists and go on being major advocates of Armenian aggressivity, while pursuing humanist missions or not!

- aylinata

January 10, 2009 at 8:44am

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For all his protestations about Hrant Dink's killing, Mr. Kirlikovali wrote on the day of the killing that it was probably the work not of Fascist nationalists but of "anti-Turks", which is code for Armenians: "Viewed in this light, one cannot help wondering if this assassination is organized by some anti-Turks." Turkish Digest 1/19/07. At no time after the arrest of the killer Samast or the other Fascist members of his cell did Kirlikovali retract his words. Kirlikovali's unhappiness with Dink's death are akin to a racist complaining aboput the assassination of Martin Luther King - it provided bad publicity and is bad for the cause. Kirlikovali should recognize that the daily torrent of racist attacks he makes and has made for years on Armenians (e.g. backstabbers, treacherous, liars, murderers, traitors)now and then reflected the very words of and culture in which the killers thrive and find ratification for their murders. (See the picture of the police officers posing with Samast under the Turkish flag, cited in the Levy piece.)

- jda

January 12, 2009 at 12:03pm

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What Mr. Kirlikovali fails to report is that Dink was reportedly threatened with death by state officials before he was killed, as reported in RADIKAL newspaper just after his death. As Dink reprted, he was summoned to an official office and told by a woman at the meeting that it would be easy for a youth to shoot him to death. That's just what happened. Young assassins are favored because they get lighter sentences. Samast, the celebrated killer, was 17.

- jda

January 12, 2009 at 1:25pm

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BERNARD-HENRI LEVY’S LACK OF RESPECT FOR GENUINE SCHOLARSHIP , it seems, is only matched with his selective morality. By taking Armenian claims at face value, he shows how easy a prey he is for the incessant Armenian propaganda. I am, of course, referring to his remembering Dink, but somehow, forgetting more than 40 Turkish diplomats, who were all killed by hate-filled Armenian assassins since 1973. I was one of the pall-bearers in 1982 of the Turkish consul general Kemal Arikan’s coffin. I didn’t see then any outpouring of condemnation by the Armenians in Los Angeles, the way Dink murder was protested in 2006 by Turks in Istanbul. Diaspora Armenians treated the young Armenian killer like a hero aand even took up collections for his legal defense. I don’t remember Levy writing any eulogies for the fallen Turkish victims of Armenian terrorism. Ever. Talk about double standards and hypocrisy

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 12, 2009 at 3:50pm

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DEWEY’S SCHOLARSHIP VERSUS LEVY’S PROPAGANDA:

In this very same paper, exactly 80 years ago, almost to the date, a world renown American scholar, Professor John Dewey of Columbia University, New York, and who is referred to as one of America's quintessential thinkers and philosophers, wrote the following lines after visiting Turkey and studying the human tragedy there : “…Few Americans who mourn, and justly, the miseries of the Armenians, are aware that till the rise of nationalistic ambitions, beginning with the 'seventies, the Armenians were the favored portion of the population of Turkey, or that in the Great War, they traitorously turned Turkish cities over to the Russian invader; that they boasted of having raised an army of one hundred and fifty thousand men to fight a civil war, and that they burned at least a hundred Turkish villages and exterminated their population. I do not mention these things by way of appraising or extenuating blame because the story of provocations and reprisals is a futile as it is endless; but it indicates what happened in the past to both Armenian and Turkish populations …” Dewey was the rare American who scratched beneath the omnipresent anti-Turkish propaganda that was especially evident in the United States. Levy, on the other hand, will be remembered with his triviality and banality in his unfortunate op-ed above. What a striking contrast in the same space in just 80 years!

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 12, 2009 at 3:52pm

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If you doubt the ingrained hatred of Christians and Jews of the Turkish state, consider that non-Muslims cannot hold high positions within the Turkish state: Non-Muslims can not become professional soldiers (no officers or NCO's). They are also not allowed to work in foreign affairs, internal affairs (police, governor, etc.), justice (prosecutor, judge) or even municipal garbage collector. The only non-Muslim state employees are either musicians in the philharmonic orchestras or professors at the universities.

- jda

January 12, 2009 at 4:05pm

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WHY IS TNR CONTINUOUSLY GIVING VOICE ONLY TO ONE SIDE OF THE STORY? Why cannot TNR solicit and op-ed presenting the other side of the story to unsuspecting readers? Why is TNR acting like a “journalist with a cause” and thus damaging its credibility? TNR would not think of covering other controversial issues like abortion, gun control, immigration, war in Iraq, taxes, and million others from only one side, would TNR? Why then lower journalistic standards of objectivity, truth, and honesty when it comes to the hundred year old Turkish-Armenian conflict? I would be more than happy to write one representing the other side of the story, namely the heretofore ignored Turkish side, or suggest a list names who can do the same. Isn’t it about time fairness, objectivity, and truth took over Armenian propaganda in this controversy?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 12, 2009 at 4:09pm

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"Since all the able Moslem men were in the army, it was easy for the Armenians to begin a horrible slaughter of the defenseless Moslem inhabitants in the area. They ... simply cleaned out the Moslem inhabitants in those areas. They performed gruesome deeds, of which I, as an eye witness honestly say that they were much worse than what Turks have been accused of as an Armenian atrocity." General Bronsart von Schellendorf , "A Witness for Talat Pasha," Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, July 24, 1921 Why is everyone so silent about Armenian hate crimes and Muslim, mostly Turkish, suffering? Isn’t this a different manifestation religious and ethnic discrimination as well as covert racism?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 12, 2009 at 4:19pm

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"The Armenians did exterminate the entire Muslim population of Russian Armenia as Muslims were considered inferior to the Armenians by the prominent leaders of the Dashnaks." Mikael Kaprilian, Armenian revolutionary leader, in Yerevan, 1919. Let non-partisan historians show you the Armenian war crimes that biased scholars and bigoted media will not. Include the other side of the story in your coverage of hundred-year-old Turkish-Armenian conflict.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 12, 2009 at 4:21pm

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"There is little news from the interior save that the Russians have entered Van. The contingent is mostly composed of Armenian volunteers who fight with desperate courage, but whose excesses have shocked even the Russian commanders." Lewis Einstein, "Inside Constantinople – A [Diplomat's] Diary During the Dardanelles Expedition, April-September, 1915,". 1917, p. 68; John Murray, London. Horrendous Armenian war crimes belie Armenian the genocide claims.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 12, 2009 at 4:23pm

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"MANY MASSACRES WERE COMMITTED BY THE ARMENIANS until our army arrived in Erzurum... (after General Odesilitze left) 2,127 Muslim bodies were buried in Erzurum's center. These are entirely (Muslim) men. There are ax, bayonet and bullet wounds on the dead bodies. Lungs of the bodies were removed and sharp stakes were struck in the eyes. There are other bodies around the city." Official telegram of the Third Royal Army Command, addressed to the Supreme Command, March 19, 1918; ATASE Archive of General Staff, Archive No: 4-36-71. D. 231. G.2. K. 2820. Dos.A-69, Fih.3. Why is no one talking about Armenian war crimes? The genocide crowds do not seem to know how to process these documented facts revealing gruesome murders committed by Armenian gangs of revolutionaries. Such facts simply trip up the memory in reciting popular Armenian propaganda.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 12, 2009 at 4:30pm

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"...We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Tartars (Turks), and then proceeded in the work of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts into heaps of stones and dust, and when the villages became untenable and the inhabitants fled from them into the fields, bullets and bayonets completed the work." Ohanus Appressian, describing incidents in 1919; Memoirs of an Armenian officer, Men are Like That, 1926. Still doubt Armenian war crimes?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 12, 2009 at 4:31pm

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"The Moslems who did not succeed in escaping [the city] were put to death..." Grace H. Knapp, The Tragedy of Bitlis, Fleming H. Revell Co., New York (1919) , page 146. Here is one civil war that no one talks about. One fears such facts might interfere with the “consensus” on the bogus genocide.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 12, 2009 at 4:33pm

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"I have it from absolute first-hand information that the Armenians in the Caucasus attacked Tartar (Muslim) villages that are utterly defenseless and bombarded these villages with artillery and they murder the inhabitants, pillage the village and often burn the village." Admiral Mark Bristol, Bristol Papers, General Correspondence: Container #32: Bristol to Bradley Letter of September 14, 1920. Facts belie Armenian claims. How come Levy does not mention this fact or many others like it clearly pointing to Armenian complicity in war crimes? Because they categorically reject and refute the genocide claims?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 12, 2009 at 4:38pm

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"Thousands of Armenians from all over the world, flocked to the standards of such famous fighters as Antranik, Kery, Dro, etc. The Armenian volunteer regiments rendered valuable service to the Russian Army in the years of 1914-15-16." Source: Kapriel Serope Papazian, Patriotism Perverted, Boston Baker Press, 1934, pg. 38 How can any decent and fair person dare still talk about that bogus genocide after this and countless other examples of raids, rebellions, terrorist acts, treason, and territorial demands causing 524,000 Muslim fatalities, mostly Turks? Since when defending one's home is considered a genocide?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 12, 2009 at 4:46pm

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"…Only 1,500 Turks remain in Van…" Source: The Gochnag, an Armenian newspaper published in the United States, May 24,1915; in a proud report documenting the slaughter of the Turkish citizenry of Van. What genocide is Levy talking about? What a shameless deception in 21st century!

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 12, 2009 at 4:47pm

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" All Turkish children also should be killed as they form a danger to the Armenian nation" Source: Hamparsum Boyaciyan, nicknamed "Murad," a former Ottoman parliamentarian who led Armenian guerilla forces, ravaging Turkish villages behind the lines, 1914. Cited from Mikael Varandean, "History of the Dashnaktsutiun. Let unmolested archives document the unspeakable hate crimes committed by the Armenian gangs and revolutionaries causing the TERESET (temporary resettlement) of the Armenian community that supported them. Censoring Turkish views do not help peace.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 12, 2009 at 4:50pm

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The Turkish method of rewriting history is based on tailoring events to suit a historical end. To do that one has to twist the events, incidents and voila...your theories become "history". Mr. Kivrikovali's vengeful hatred towards the Armenians are so glaring that he comes across as nothing short of a racist individual with serious issues. He is confused in thinking that dishing out "proof" of Armenian "guilt" will in anyway diminish the burden of the genocide perpetrated by the Ottoman Turkish government to destroy the entire Armenian race from its original motherland, to defend the rest of the Armenian population Armenians responded in a savage war of survival. Cutting and pasting Turkish government fabricated lies is what he does well. Continue Mr. Kirlikovali, you show the true face of an ultranationalist Turk, a proud Grey Wolf! The type that would pose for posterity with the likes of Samast !

- Zareh

January 12, 2009 at 7:15pm

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Dear Ergun. The systematic extermination of the Armenians is etymologicaly connected to the word genocide. Raphael Lemkin, the man who coined the word 'genocide' based it in large part on what happened to the Armenians. So, arguing that what happened to the Armenians was not genocide is like saying the fruit orange is not orange in colour. If you believe that what happened to the Armenians was not genocide, then you should have convinced Raphael Lemkin to not have based the word on the Armenian holocaust.

- John White

January 12, 2009 at 11:30pm

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I suppose Mr. Kirklikovali has never heard of the International Association of Genocide Scholars. Or, perhaps if he's heard of them, he doesn't care for the fact that they have indisputably and emphatically classified the massacres of Armenians in Turkey in 1915 as genocide. On the other hand, I hope anyone reading this article and Kirlikovali's comments has a chance to examine what racist genocidal hatred is really like. If it wasn't horrific, it would almost be comical how this person nor apparently his allies can see what thuggish behavior is like in print.

- Janine

January 13, 2009 at 1:06am

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The Turkish-American establishment today has adopted a strategy of swarming any blog with block quotes from supposed books in which Armenian authors agree that Armenians committed atrocities against Turks. Mr Kirlikovali has placed ten such supposed quotes directly above. and he has done this elsewhere countless times. These quotes come from an aggregation website which purports to be a "neutral" Genocide resource, but which highlights only the most vicious Anti-Armenian propaganda. In many instances these supposed books cannot be located and are likely forgeries of a Turkish gentleman who came up with them in the 90's. More to the point,they are not relevant to whether Ottoman state actors committed Genocide of unarmed men, women and children under guard. The Turkish establishment seeks to create a belief that Armenians somehow died in a civil war, not at the hands of the State. Even the Denialists' current favorite academic, Guenter Lewy, dismisses the 'civil war" thesis out of hand, calling it a "travesty of history", and he endorses the conclusion of another Turkish historian, who said that no historian with a conscience could advance the idea that Armenains did not suffer "colossal" crimes at the hands of the Ottomans. Page 122 of the Lewy book, publioshed in 2005; A Diputed Genocide. For his part, Kirlikovalihas written elsewhere that only 8,000 Armenians died during the Death Marches, and died in what he calls "feuds".

- jda

January 13, 2009 at 10:31am

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Allegations of Armenian genocide are racist and dishonest history. They are racist because they imply only Armenian (or Christian) dead count, the Turkish (or Muslim) dead do not.; thus dehumanizing an entire group of people with political motives. And the allegations of Armenian genocide are dishonest because they dismiss “The Six T’s Of The Turkish-Armenian Conflict”: TUMULT (many Armenian rebellions between 1890 and 1915 and beyond;) TERRORISM (by Armenians between 1882 and 1915 and beyond;) TREASON (Armenians first covertly then overtly joining the invading enemy armies;) TERRITORIAL DEMANDS (by Armenian minority attempting to rule a Muslim, mostly Turkish majority;) TURKISH SUFFERING (caused by Armenians –documented to be 524,000 by the Turkish Historical Institute;) and TERESET (temporary resettlement) triggered by the first five T’s above.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 10:47am

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Those familiar with the Mosin-Gaflan mentality of the Armenians and their “Greater Armenia” dreams will note Levy’s writings as just another link in the chain of deception and defamation of Turkey by the supporters of the official Armenian history. Carefully formulating the question as “Do you accept or deny Armenian Genocide?” shows pure anti-Turkish bias. The question, in all fairness and objectivity, should be rephrased: “What is your stand on the Turkish-Armenian conflict?” Turks believe it was a civil war within a world war provoked and waged by the Armenians with active support from Russia, England, and France, and passive support from the U.S. diplomats, missionaries, media, and others, all of whom coveted the Ottoman lands, wealth, peoples, and/or political influence to varying degrees; most Armenians claim it was genocide but lack a verdict by a competent tribunal –given after due process where the accused is given a fair chance to cross examine evidence and witnesses and properly defend themselves.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 10:56am

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Levy did a great disservice to unsuspecting readers by not telling them, even in passing, the fact that a dozen or more counter campaigns have spontaneously sprouted all over the world (one right here in America: www.ozurdilemiyorum.net) that collected nearly a million votes for “No apology” in reaction to a recent apology campaign that was started by those who are long known for their anti-Turkish government and state views and which campaign only collected some 26,000 votes (that’s less than 3% of the total voters.) How fair or honest is leaving such a story out? This is also significant because this is the first time close to a million Turks of all stripes (Turkish, American, European, Asian, African, Australian) have come together so powerfully and swiftly as if to scream “Enough is enough!” to the Armenian falsifiers and their fellow Turk-haters.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 11:02am

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VERDICT WITHOUT DUE PROCESS AMOUNTS TO LYNCHING ( 1 of 3) Armenian “allegations” of genocide ignore the facts that genocide is a legal, technical term precisely defined by the U.N. 1948 convention and a genocide verdict can only be given by a "competent court" after "due process" where both sides are properly represented and evidence mutually cross examined. Furthermore, for a genocide verdict to be rendered, the accusers must prove at a competent court and after due process the intent of the alleged perpetrator to commit genocide. This could never be done by the Armenians whose evidence mostly fall into five major categories: hearsay, misrepresentations, exaggerations, forgeries, and “other”.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 11:15am

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VERDICT WITHOUT DUE PROCESS AMOUNTS TO LYNCHING ( 2 of 3)Such a "competent court" was never convened in the case of Turkish-Armenian conflict and a genocide verdict does not exist (save a Kangaroo court in occupied Istanbul in 1920 where partisanship, vendettas, and revenge motives left no room for due process.) Genocide claim, therefore, is political, not historical or factual. It reflects bias against Muslims in general and Turks in particular. The term genocide must be used with the qualifier "alleged", if one values ideals like truth, objectivity, and fairness.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 11:16am

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VERDICT WITHOUT DUE PROCESS AMOUNTS TO LYNCHING ( 3 of 3) What we witness today amounts to lynching of the Turks and friends of Turks by Armenians to satisfy the age old Armenian hate, bias, and bigotry. American values like fairness, presumption of innocence until proven guilty, objectivity, balance, honesty, and freedom of speech are stumped under the fanatic Armenian feet. Unprovoked , unjustified, and unfair defamation of Turkey, one of America's closest allies in the troubled Middle East, in order to appease some nagging Armenian activists runs counter to American interests. Those who claim genocide verdict today, based on the much discredited Armenian evidence, are actually engaging in "conviction and execution without due process". And that, according to dictionary, is the definition of “lynch mobs”.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 11:16am

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“…As soon as the Armenian volunteer units commanded by Antranik approach Van, the Dashnak fighters in the area will take to the mountains and unfurl the flag of revolt. The plans for the rebellion will be implemented in April 1915. The Catholicos has informed us that 10,000 armed fighters are ready to join the action.” Source: Dashnak decision, end of February 1915 Armenian National Congress held in Tiblis. [The Armenians in History and the Armenian Question; Esat Uras, Documentary Publications, Istanbul (1988); p.853] Please note how the Armenian “pope”, i.e. the Catholicos, is up to his neck in planning murder and mayhem! This is religion? This is Levy’s “poor, starving Armenians”? Since when defending your home against heinous Armenian war crimes is considered a genocide?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 11:20am

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ARMENIAN REBELLION IN VAN… continued ( 2 of 2) Those 10,000 Armenian “armed fighters” The Catholicos had informed did take up arms against the Muslim population of Van, just as heinously planned, did slaughter the Muslim population of Van; and did turn over Van city to the invading Russian armies. Source: The Armenian Rebellion at Van, Justin McCarthy, Esat Arslan, Cemaletting Taskiran, Omer Turan (The University of Utah Press, Salt lake City, USA, 2006) Those Armenian rebellions and treason, coupled with many hundreds like them happening all over eastern Anatolia between 1890 and 1915, brought about the last minute wartime home security measure of Tereset (temporary resettlement) of the Eastern Anatolia Armenians, sort of like a massive Ottoman-Guantanamo, but not genocide, not even close.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 11:25am

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“…In all the countries, under all the regimes, the staff of the armies in the field evacuate towards the back, the populations which live in the zone of fights and can bother the movement of the troops, especially if these populations are hostile. Public opinion does not find anything to criticize to these measures, obviously painful, but necessary. During winter of 1939-1940, the radical - socialist French government evacuated and transported in the Southwest of France, notably in the Dordogne, the entire population of the Alsatian villages situated in the valley of the Rhine, to the east of the Maginot line. This German-speaking population, and even sometimes germanophil, bothered the French army. It stayed in the South, far from the evacuated homes and sometimes destroyed until 1945….And nobody, in France, cried out for inhumanity…” Source: Georges de Maleville, lawyer and a specialist on the Armenian question, La Tragédie Arménienne de 1915, (The Armenian tragedy of 1915), Editions F. Sorlot-F. Lanore, Paris, 1988, p 61-63. Doesn’t this point poignantly and forcefully to the hollowness of the Armenian claims?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 11:37am

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COINING OF THE TERM “ETHOCIDE”, The Antonym For The Term “Genocide “, by Ergun KIRLIKOVALI (1 of 5): "Ethocide" is a new word, coined by this writer, at exactly 8:58 am, on Wednesday, May 7, 2003, after being frustrated by the incredibly biased coverage of the Turkish-Armenian issue in the American media. The term “ethocide” was first used in my letter to the Boston Globe on that date. Ethocide, my humble gift to the English language, is coined from the words "ethics" and "cide". The definition of ethics (singular in number), by Webster's II, New Riverside Dictionary, is: "The branch of philosophy dealing with the rules of right conduct". Ethocide is related and includes all the meanings and interpretations of the word "ethic" (without "s" in the end), which according to the same dictionary, has the following two meanings: 1. A principle of right or good conduct. 2. A system of moral values. "Cide" is Latin word for killing and is already widely used in modern English language in coined forms: suicide (kills self), genocide (kills a group of people with shared traits), biocide (kills biological growth), insecticide (kills insects); etc. Ethocide is, therefore, "extermination of ethics via persistent and systematic malicious mass deception for political, economical, social, religious, and/or other benefits.”

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 12:17pm

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COINING OF THE TERM “ETHOCIDE”, The Antonym For The Term “Genocide “, by Ergun KIRLIKOVALI (2 of 5): Genocide is a term coined in 1943 by Raphäel Lemkin, a Polish-Jew, a lawyer, and a Holocaust survivor, based on the horrendous extermination of Jews in German Nazi concentration camps. When the UN adopted the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide, no one at the UN seesm to have anticipated any FRAUDULENT AND MALICIOUS USE OF THE TERM GENOCIDE. Therefore, no terminology was included to identify what constituted misuse and no mechanism was created to monitor and prosecute such fraud. Shortly thereafter, when the Armenian lobbies hijacked this term, to justify the Ottoman-Armenian history of armed insurgency, terrorism, and treason, while unfairly defaming the Turkish culture and history, the need for a new term became obvious, at least to me. To add insult to injury, when the Armenians have resorted to international terrorism (1973 to present), killing many innocent Turkish diplomats because of their ethnicity, while still cruelly claiming genocide, the need for an antonym for genocide, became acute. It was not until 2003, when this writer’s letters were censored by the editors of Glendale News Press, followed by Boston Globe’s declaration that the qualifier “alleged” would no longer be used when referring to the Armenian claims of genocide, that this term came rushing to this writer: all this was a systematic extermination all right, but not of Ottoman-Armenians, rather, of the truth, and therefore, of the ethics, by the AFATH (Armenian Falsifiers And Turk Haters.) Hence the term ETHOCIDE was born.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 12:19pm

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COINING OF THE TERM “ETHOCIDE”, The Antonym For The Term “Genocide “, by Ergun KIRLIKOVALI (3 of 5): I am in the process of writing a book with the working title of “Ethocide, Not Genocide”. The third chapter elucidates the origin, definition, analysis, proper use, and impact of the term ethocide, and compares it with its antonym, genocide. Later chapters deal with future trends that this “living term” might inspire. The AFATH (Armenian Falsifiers And Turk Haters) disinformation continues to metastasize daily with ethocidal writings of people like Levy here and intense lobbying by the AFATH-invented genocide scholars and partisan historians. That kind of chicanery, or “ethocidal coverage” of events, now threatens to dethrone history, in the particular case of the Turkish-Armenian civil war during WWI. Ethocide, my humble gift to the English language, is the antidote for the poison of bogus genocides , current and future. This term will be increasingly more potent in time as more and more writers use it to combat dishonest and racist historiographies. The alleged Armenian genocide provides us with an excellent case in the study of ethocide around the world.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 12:19pm

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COINING OF THE TERM “ETHOCIDE”, The Antonym For The Term “Genocide “, by Ergun KIRLIKOVALI (4 of 5): Scholarly definition of Ethocide, however, shall be " Systematic extermination of ethics, via pre-meditated and malicious propaganda, disinformation, and/or other forms of mass deception, designed and/or used by any person, group, institution, country, or block of countries, to destroy partially or wholly, the honor, prestige, dignity, integrity, credibility, image, culture, heritage, and/or history of another person, group, institution, country, or block of countries, for political, social, economical, military, moral, perceptional, and other benefits.” Ethocide shall be a “living term” taking on associate, newer, and/or wider meanings in time, after proper scholarly studies in the disciplines of law, history, psychology, sociology, literature, science, and medicine, and other as deemed necessary.y If the word ethocide is coupled with a qualifier, to identify specific case, then the entire phrase is to be capitalized, such as "the Armenian Ethocide".

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 12:20pm

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COINING OF THE TERM “ETHOCIDE”, The Antonym For The Term “Genocide “, by Ergun KIRLIKOVALI (5 of 5): The crime of ethocide can be committed by words or deeds. Letters, news reports, editorials, op-eds, books, journals, research papers, presentations, panel discussions, and others can be just as "ethocidal" in nature, as TV-shows, full feature films, documentaries, objects of art, exhibits, museums, public demonstrations, individual and/or group attitudes and/or behavior, consumer merchandise, and other public and/or private activities. The originator, this writer, envisages appearance of grass-root citizen groups and all-volunteer organizations, not in too distant future, which will identify, monitor, and expose major cases of ethocide, to bring public pressure on such "ethocidal criminals of conscience", in the hopes of preventing further such ethocidal attitudes and behavior, for the public good. Establishment of Ethocide Research Institute(s) (ERI), Ethocide Museum(s) (EM), Ethocide Films (EF) and other institutes dedicated to exposing ethocidal behavior in our midst, will eventually, exact a terrible price on the spin-doctors, self-described genocide scholars, and the AFATH lobbyists, just like Nazis are dealt a tremendous blow by the proper Holocaust education. Finally, the term ethocide is not to be confused with ethnocide. Latter already exists in the English language and means intentional and systematic destruction of an ethnic culture.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 12:21pm

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One of the weaker tactics employed by Mr. Kirlikovali, and the Turkish-American establishment in which he plays a key part is to demand that they frame the issues of the Armenian Genocide. One of his and their demands is that the term "Armenian Genocide" not be used, and that it be substituted by "Armenian-Turkish conflict". This would stun Rafael Lemkin, who coined the term Genocide with the Armenian Genocide in mind. It is also meant to create the image of Armenain deaths attributable to a civil war, even though this thesis is repudiated by even the Turkish establishment's favorite academic, Guenter Lewy, see page 122 of his 2005 book. Finally, the Turkish establishment brands as "racist" merely referring to the Genocide, in another effort to tell Americans what they can and cannot say. The Turkish state's totalitarian instinct is extraterritorial. The Turkish state does a great, if pitiable effort, to cow its own people, but it has no power here. As if on cue, six Turkish prosecutors are reviewing whether the 200 organizers of the apology petition should be prosecuted for "insulting Turkishness". Apparently that same establishment thinks its writ runs here. Tell it to go to Hell - this is America.

- jda

January 13, 2009 at 2:09pm

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Mr.Kirlikovali presents almost a perfect image here and elsewhere of a true fanatic. He has posted 42 of 75 posts. But it is his gleeful racism and motives which portray more than the brute force of his desire to drown out all voices but his. The interesting riddle is why he hates, and hates Armenians so much. Mr.Kirlikovali's grandparents, according to him, hail from Greece, where he claims they were massacred not by Armenians, but by Greek villagers. I accept the claim at face value, and in my first exchanges with him suggested that the grandchildren of those who suffered exile and murder should work for peace and reconciliation. I think I was immdiately called a "lying Armenian" for my trouble. Mr. Kirlikovali's antecedents were likely native Greeks who converted to Islam in the 17th Century. Why he hates Armenians is a question I hope he answers some day for his own well being, not to mention the preservation of bandwith.

- jda

January 13, 2009 at 2:50pm

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Mr. Kirlikovali writes at post 72, above, that Raphael Lemkin coined the term "Genocide" to refer only to the Holocaust. This is what Kirlikovali said: "Genocide is a term coined in 1943 by Raphäel Lemkin, a Polish-Jew, a lawyer, and a Holocaust survivor, based on the horrendous extermination of Jews in German Nazi concentration camps. When the UN adopted the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide, no one at the UN seesm to have anticipated any FRAUDULENT AND MALICIOUS USE OF THE TERM GENOCIDE. Lemkin actually said this during a 1949 CBS interview: “I became interested in genocide because it happened to the Armenians; and after[wards] the Armenians got a very rough deal at the Versailles Conference because their [Ottoman-Turkish] criminals were guilty of genocide and were not punished. You know that they [the Ottoman Turks] were organized in a terroristic organization which took justice into its own hands. The trial of Talaat Pasha in 1921 in Berlin is very instructive. A man (Soghomon Tehlirian), whose mother was killed in the genocide, killed Talaat Pasha. And he told the court that he did it because his mother came in his sleep ... many times. Here, …the murder of your mother, you would do something about it! So he committed a crime. So, you see, as a lawyer, I thought that a crime should not be punished by the victims, but should be punished by a court, by a national law.” Cong. Emanuel Celler (D-NY), who was also interviewed in that same CBS program, added: “Pres. Wilson, a great democratic leader, tried to save the Armenian people from genocide during the First World War and shortly thereafter.” Mr. Kirlikovali, why do you say demonstrably false things about the origin of the term Genocide and the conclusions of Dr. Lemkin?

- jda

January 13, 2009 at 3:59pm

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Now Mr. Kirlikovali has resorted into spamming this site with his meaningless ranting. Suffice it to say that he has proven to be a worthy member of what I call TRASH, (Turkish Racists Advocating Sickening Hatred). Congratulations Mr. K, it is too bad that the terrible burden of being the grandson of victims of the Balkan wars has turned you into a virulent anti-Armenian hate monger and an anti-Genocide propagandist. Peace! Zareh Sahakian, the son of survivors of the Armenian Genocide.

- Zareh

January 13, 2009 at 4:11pm

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ERGUN, ANNOTATED: COINING OF THE TERM "ETHOCIDE", The Antonym For The Term "Genocide ", by Ergun KIRLIKOVALI (3 of 5): I am in the process of writing a book [jeepers, just staple your posts together]with the working title of "Ethocide, Not Genocide"[don't count on royalties quite yet]. The third chapter [I doubt I'll get through the 85 page preface] elucidates the origin, definition, analysis, proper use, and impact of the term ethocide, and compares it with its antonym, genocide [you're kind of an expert on the word ethocide since you coined it. Only problem is you're the only one who uses it - have you noticed?]. Later chapters deal with future trends that this "living term" might inspire [like what, burning Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians alive (again)]. The AFATH (Armenian Falsifiers And Turk Haters)[Ergun rolls this "AFATH" one out for anyone, including non-Armenians who disagree with him, like Ottomanist Professor Quataert at SUNY Binghamton. I suggest he license it to Jenny Craig instead]. disinformation continues to metastasize daily with ethocidal writings of people like Levy here and intense lobbying by the AFATH-invented genocide scholars and partisan historians [let's see, the Turkish lobby snared Richard Gebhardt, Dick Armey, disgraced former House member Bob Livingston, several neoconic niotwits, and a few large PR firms]. That kind of chicanery [disagreement= chicanery], or "ethocidal coverage" of events, now threatens to dethrone history [last seen headed dejectedly to Elizabeth Arde], in the particular case of the Turkish-Armenian civil war during WWI [even Lewy says the civil war thesis is a "travesty" of history no historian with a conscience could support, but its quite okay with Ergun. Ethocide, my humble gift [very humble, Ergun, in fact non-existent] to the English language [sounds like Martian, actually], is the antidote for the poison of bogus genocides , current and future [huh?]. This term will be increasingly more potent in time as more and more writers use it to combat dishonest and racist historiographies [and that future writer would be you,and your Springer Spaniel?]. The alleged Armenian genocide provides us with an excellent case in the study of ethocide around the world [what you mean, "us", kimo sabe?].

- jda annotating Ergun for fun

January 13, 2009 at 7:29pm

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"For too many years Armenian mothers had lulled their children to sleep with songs whose theme was Turkish fierceness and savagery." Ohanus Appressian, lending testimony to how innocent Armenian children are subjected to the brutality of racism by their parents; their "Love NOT Thy Neighbor" churches are also known to join in this hatred bandwagon. Men Are Like That, 1926. The blame here has to be on the Armenian parents , not their children, although the latter commit the hate crimes against Turks today. That’s why I say” TEACH THE CHILDREN WELL! Peace.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 7:42pm

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"... It's better that I be a dog or a cat, than a Turkish barbarian..." Edna Petrosyan, a SIX YEAR OLD Californian girl who recites hateful poems on the insistence of her mother. It is easy to see how this cycle of hate-perpetuation feeds the "Armenian Genocide" obsession for most Armenians. The Los Angeles Times, February 1, 1990 It is also interesting to note that most Armenian terrorists are young, some in their teens. If one mercilessly feeds a child with gory stories and tall tales cultivating intense hatred, a child cannot take it anymore and goes out to commit acts of terrorism.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 7:42pm

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"...In the early part of 1915, therefore, every Turkish city contained thousands of Armenians who had been trained as soldiers and who were supplied with rifles, pistols, and other weapons of defense. The operations at Van once more disclosed that these men could use their weapons to good advantage..." Source: Henry Morganthau, U.S. Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire, Ambassador Morgenthau's Story, Doubleday, Page & Co., Garden City, New York (1918), page 301. Here is the confession, straight from the horse’s mouth. Armenians were trained as soldiers and supplied with rifles and used them to good advantage. What “poor, starving Armenian?” Genocide is a deception, a lie, a PR gimmick. That’s all. Human suffering? Of course, but on all sides. Why ignore catastrophic Muslim, mostly Turkishm suffering at the hands of Armenians as revealed by Morgenthau himself here?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 7:47pm

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"… I have really found it impossible to sit down and dictate a letter quietly. So I have instructed (Hagop) Andonian to take my diary and copy it with some elaborations of his own. Of course this relieves me of all responsibility for any error…" Henry Morganthau, U.S. Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire (Lowry, 1990; Franklin Delano Roosevelt Presidential Library, New York, Letters; Box 7 May 11, 1915; Box 1 ­ 2 September 1, 1915; Box 8 July 13, 1915) Morgenthau’s Armenian male secretaries Schmavonian and Andonian wrote all the embellished reports demonizing Turks and signed by Morgenthau, sometimes without even appreciating what he was signing. All of these outrageous lies found their ways to the columns of New York Tiems from where they went to the hearts and minds of unsuspecting Americans. This was the shameful Armenian loom weaving hate and vengeance and this is how Armenian propaganda got to where it is today.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 7:51pm

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"It is to be hoped that the future historian will not give too much heed to the drivel one finds in the books of diplomatist-authors." George A. Schreiner, American War/Political Correspondent, "The Craft Sinister: A Diplomatico-Political History of the Great War and its Causes, (G. Albert Gayer, New York, 1920)"; Schreiner criticized Ambassador Morgenthau in a letter, aware of the Ambassador's fabrications in "Ambassador Morgenthau's Story."

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 7:52pm

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"Every Armenian has another Armenian whom he considers his mortal enemy…An Armenian's worst enemies are not odars but Armenians." ("Odars" : foreigners) … Our perpetual enemy — the enemy that will eventually destroy us — is not the Turk but our own complacent superficiality…What kind of people are we?... Instead of reason, blind instinct. Instead of common sense, fanaticism… Our past is filled with countless instances of betrayal and treachery.. ." Source: Ara Baliozian quoting various Armenian writers.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 7:54pm

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" In life, questions outnumber answers. Case in point: If they are bloodthirsty savages, why did they wait for 600 years to slaughter us?" Ara Baliozian, from a Yahoo group. The prior quotes are from the Ara Baliozian from earlier times, but Mr. Baliozian has been producing many gems since. As much as he has been "banned" from mainstream Armenian publications for not fitting in, he is a remarkable man. Here is a questions the members of the AFATH (Armenian Falsifiers and Turk-Haters) grapple with all the time: who really destroyed the millennium of Turkish-Armenian cohabitation in Anatolia with rebellions, raids, treason, land demands, and outright terrorism? Was it the Turks or the Armenians? Think about it!

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 7:59pm

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"...When Turkey had not yet entered the war...Armenian volunteer groups began to be organized with great zeal and pomp in Trans Caucasia. In spite of the decision taken a few weeks before at the General Committee in Erzurum, the Dashnagtzoutune actively helped the organization of the aforementioned groups, and especially arming them, against Turkey. In the Fall of 1914, Armenian volunteer groups were formed and fought against the Turks..." Hovhannes Katchaznouni, First Prime Minister of the Independent Armenian Republic, The Manifesto of Hovhannes Katchaznouni, 1923. (The Armenian Revolutionary Federation Has Nothing to Do Any More, New York, Armenian Information Service, 1955, p. 5.)

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 8:00pm

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"Practically all of the (volunteers were) Turkish Armenians," The New York Times reported, in 1915. [One of the main aspects of Armenian] "national psychology... [is] to seek external causes for [Armenian ] misfortune."..."One might think we found a spiritual consolation in the conviction that the Russians behaved villainously towards us." Hovhannes Katchaznouni, First Prime Minister of the Independent Armenian Republic, The Manifesto of Hovhannes Katchaznouni,1923, Page 8. After the Russians, it would be the turn of the French, the Americans, the British, the Georgians, the Azerbaijanis — the whole world. Welcome to the Armenian psyche. Why is it that way? I don’t know. But don’t take my word for it; listen to the first prime minister of Armenia; he ought to know his people better than I…

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 8:03pm

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"...Kachaznuni's government... like the wolf, eats the calf because such is its nature. That government could not live in peace and was obsessed with battling one or another of its neighbors, for like the wolf, it had to devour everything. Should not the Armenians have realized that, in view of their hostile relations with the Muslims, they must at least cling to the friendship of (Christian) Georgia? But instead they had now burned this bridge as well..." Premier Noizhordonia of Georgia, three days after Armenia attempted a land grab attempt via a surprise and unprovoked attack on its neighbor, on December 14, 1918; as reported by Professor Richard Hovannisian in his book, The Republic of Armenia, Vol. 1. Armenia would be more successful in its land grab attempt against neighbor Azerbaijan some seventy years later... in the manner of another "Pearl Harbor"-like sneak and cowardly attack, with huge monetary backing from the Russians and Americans.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 13, 2009 at 8:04pm

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"The Turkish race was... from the first black day they entered Europe, the one great anti-human specimen of humanity... as far as their dominion reached, civilisation vanished from view." Source: William Gladstone, British Prime Minister, "The Bulgarian Horrors and the Question of the East," 1876. This is the kind of racism that still lingers on in the hearts and minds of most Armenians and their fellow Turk-haters who promote a bogus genocide in spite of overwhelming evidnec that it was a civil war designed, provoked, and waged by Armenians in order to create greater Armenia on Turkish soil. Armenian did get help significant direct from European powers and indirect help from the U.S. missionries, diplomats, and media. Turkish views were censored, eliminating most chances of refuting the fake Armenian charges. It is only in the last 20-30 years that unsuspecting public is learning about the truth, about the other side of the story.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 11:40am

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"The Turks are a human cancer, a creeping agony in the flesh of the lands they misgovern, rotting every fiber of life. I am glad that the Turk is to be called to a final account (referring to the impending Greek invasion of Asia Minor ) for his long record of infamy against humanity." Source: David Lloyd George, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, getting ready to annihilate the last remnants of the dying Ottoman Empire. Britain helped Armenians tremendously to stage rebellions against their own Ottoman government. Such racist attitudes coupled with religious discrimination were lurking beneath the Armenian demands for territory and reforms.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 11:43am

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"The centuries rarely produce a genius. Look at this bad luck of ours, that great genius of our era was granted to the Turkish nation." Source: David Lloyd George, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, referring to Mustafa Kemal (later Ataturk) after Britain’s plans to wipe Turkey off the face of the earth ran into a snag: Turkish Independence War. What is significant here is the fact that even a rabid racist like David Lloyd George (see his comments about Turks above)could find in himself to appreciate the greatness in a person like Ataturk whom the Diaspora Armenian, incurably filled with hatred for all things Turkish, still despise today.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 11:49am

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Levy writes: "Such [Denial and victim-blaming] betray the absolute, insane hatred [Turkish Denialists] harbor, against which factual evidence and debate are useless and the truth is impotent." There is no point posting to persuade Kirlikovali. Instead I recommend satire, jokes, ridicule, and lampoon. Fascists and racists rarely are finalists on "last comic standing", they have no humor. Comedy is the one thing they hate most, other than Armenians, Greeks, Kurds, Alewis, Serbs, Persians, Montenegrins, Cretans, Russians, Georgians, British, Chaldeans, Nestorians and Assyrians, that is. This just in: add Israelis and Jews to the list, per Erdogan's speech yesterday ahbout Jewish media control.

- jda

January 14, 2009 at 11:54am

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“[N]one of the data provided by the archives of any of the Entente powers, the wartime enemies of the Ottoman Empire, can be viewed as entirely impeccable” Vahakn Dadrian, "The Armenian Genocide: A New Brand of Denial by the Turkish General Staff — by Proxy,” Sept. 21, 2004 This is significant because even a master Armenian propagandist like Dadrian knows that documents like the Blue Book, published by the British propaganda office during WWI, and Yellow Book, published by the French propaganda office also during WWI, and others cannot be trusted. So, the question begs to be asked, why do Armenians (and their fellow Turk-haters like Levy) continue to use allied wartime propaganda to substantiate their bogus genocide claims? If you know no allied documents can be trusted, why use them against Turks just to make your mass- deception stick?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 11:54am

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“...[T]he Armenians' dream of independence (developed) following the example of Serbs, Greeks and others when the Ottoman Empire began to crumble... In 1915 they (Armenians) were restless again. The Turks, having their hands full already with a difficult war, took ruthless steps to quell the uprising. They deported what was meant to be the entire population of Armenia to Syria and Mesopotamia. Their organization was insufficient; a third of the Armenian population escaped deportation..." Source: R. P. Lister, "Turkey Observed," 1967. Even racist accounts like these concede that Armenians rebelled, Turks defended their home, and (some) Armenians were (temporarily resettled.) None of this point to genocide. And that’s the point!

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 11:57am

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"Everywhere they eat lamb with gusto and abandon, over-seasoning their meat with peper and garlic, flashing knives at the hapless meat, usually devouring it almost raw, often barbecuing it while they speak of Ghini and onion, without regard to the restaurant's need to turn the tables... and other times they eat flaming soujoukh on swords, and raw chee kufta, without shame" From Among Armenian Diners in Glendale, p.159

- Ergun almost

January 14, 2009 at 11:59am

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“ …When the Russians and the Turks became enemies at war in 1914, the Armenians sided with the Russians. As soon as word spread that the Armenians were massacring Moslem Turks and Kurds and were setting up an Armenian government in Van, the Young Turks passed a law to disarm and deport them. This turned into the 1915-1916 migrations and massacres of Armenians, and was followed by counter-massacres of Muslims by Russo-Armenian forces occupying eastern Turkey n 1917-18..." Source: Eleanor Bisbee, "The New Turks," University of Pennsylvania, 1951, p. 49 Does any of this sound like a genocide? It is about a set of Ottoman wartime measures designed for home security and defense in the face of very real, treasonous, and rebellious warfare waged by Armenians and at times fought by irregulars on all sides.. but no genocide!

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 12:02pm

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"…I am informed, on good authority, that Russia is already commencing her usual intrigues among the Armenians of Asiatic Turkey. Russian agents are being sent into the provinces inhabited by them with the object of stirring up discontent against the rule and authority of the Porte. A Russian party is being formed in the capital amongst the Armenians, which already includes some leading and influential members of that community..." Sir Henry Layard, British Ambassador, in a July 14, 1878 message to British Foreign Secretary Lord Salisbury (British Foreign Office 424/72, pages 160-161, No 211)

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 12:04pm

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"…The aim of the Armenian revolutionaries is to stir disturbances, to get the Ottomans to react to violence, and thus get the foreign powers to intervene..." Source: Sir Philip Currie, the British Ambassador in Istanbul, 28 March 1894 (British Blue Book, Nr.6 1894, p.57 or 87;). Armenians put into action this exact heinous plan and caused many fatalities in the neighboring Muslim communities. This was no act by “poor, starving Armenians” as we are all led to believe in the West; this was a pre-meditated hate crimes committed by “armed and motivated Armenians”. Here is one of millions of proofs.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 12:08pm

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“…Their object has plainly been, by creating an appearance of widespread disaffection, quite out of proportion to their numbers and influence to provoke reprisals on the part of the Turkish Government and people, of a nature to draw the attention of the Powers to the manifest grievances of the Armenian nation, and the necessity for their redressal…” Source: Graves, the British Consul in Erzurum, reporting to the British Ambassador in Istanbul, on January 28, 1895. British Blue Book, Nr. 6 (1894), pp. 222-223. Here is the same message given by a different person at a different time. Armenians resorted to propaganda, agitation, terror, raids, rebellions, and treason, in that order, between 1890-1915. The Tereset (Temporary Resettlement) of 1915 is the result, not cause, of hostilities. Once open-minded truth-seekers see this point, then it is obvious why the Tereset cannot be considered a genocide.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 12:12pm

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The Armenians diabolically fail to admit Turks invented baseball [including the ingenious infield fly rule], hairspray, windshield wipers, cornuts, and crossword puzzles. This is cultural genocide for which they must not only apologize, but in fact surrender.

- almost ergun 2

January 14, 2009 at 12:13pm

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"The Dashnaks and Hunchaks have terrorized their own countrymen, they have stirred up the Muslim people with their thefts and insanities, and have paralyzed all efforts made to carry out reforms; all the events that have taken place in Anatolia are the responsibility of the crimes committed by the Armenian revolutionary committees." Source: Williams, The British vice-consul, writing from Van. (March 4, 1896, British Blue Book, Nr. 8 1896, p.108.) Why isn’t anyone talking about Armenian hate crime and Armenian terrorism and treason which started the Turkish-Armenian conflict in the first place?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 12:16pm

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"Those who in England are loudest in their sympathy with the aspirations of a(n Armenian) people ‘rightly struggling to be free’ can hardly have realized the atrocious methods of terrorism and blackmail by which a handful of desperados, as careful of their own safety as they are reckless of the lives of others, have too successfully coerced their unwilling compatriots into complicity with an utterly hopeless conspiracy." Source: Lord Warkworth, after paying a visit to Van. ( William Langer, The Diplomacy of Imperialism.)

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 12:18pm

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I have coined my own little humble gift to the [vastly inferior]English language called 'vegicide' meaning not eating your vegetables. It is an antonym for Genocide as well as ice skating. We know that secret Armenian agents everywhere seek to promote the over-consumption of fruit in place of vegetables so as to bankrupt honest Turkish vegetable growers.

- semi Ergun

January 14, 2009 at 12:18pm

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''…I do not deny the existence and the active propagandism of Armenian revolutionarists. I do not even deny that, to some extent, the religious war has been stimulated by Armenian political agitators...'' Source: Antranig Azhderian, "The Turk and the Land of Haig, or Turkey and Armenia - Descriptive, Historical, and Picturesque," The Mershong Company, New York, 1898, p. 364. Until and unless Armenian complicity in war crimes and hate crimes are acknowledged by the AFATH (Armenian Falsifiers and Turk-Haters) community, I do not see how there can be a closure on the 100+ year old Turkish-Armenian conflict.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 12:22pm

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"..Our policy is to maintain our gratefulness to Russia, but at the same time induce Britain to help our cause. Our well-being is possible only in an independent Armenia. Do not be surprised at the word, for our motto is this: 'an Armenia ruled by Armenians'…" Source: Nerses Varjabedian, Armenian Patriarch, writing in 1878 to Karakin (Garegin) Papazian, the head of the Armenian Committee in Manchester, England; while Armenians began to approach the Tsar for eventual Armenian independence, and of attempting to bring Britain into the picture. (Ermeniler ve 1915 Tehcir Olayi/Armenians and the 1915 Resettlement Episode, Prof. Azmi Süslü,1990, p.45. Armenian clergymen, unfortunately, were up to their necks involved in planning murder and mayhem. They have to come clean yet and apologize to the entire world for misleading their people down a path of self-inflicted death and destruction. They must cleanse their souls by confessing and letting the world know the truth behind the bogus Armenian genocide.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 12:25pm

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"I will speak a language the whole world knows, a language expressing pain and suffering. In other words, I will weep." Source: Nerses Varjabedian, Armenian Patriarch, when asked how he could undertake a political mission during the Congress of Berlin (1878) without knowing a foreign language. The significance in his reply is that he summed up entirely familiar Armenian boo-hoo'ing strategy to gain attention, in a nutshell. "The Armenians in History and the Armenian Question," Esat Uras, p. 498. Footnote appearing to represent the passage reads K. Mikaelian, The Will of the People, Istanbul, 1909, p.45; in Armenian. Current year: 2009. Nothing much seems to have changed!

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 12:26pm

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"The Turks... themselves are Armenians by birth and origin." Source: Migirdich Khrimian, Armenian Patriarch and Catholicos; letter written 24 June 1878 in the Grand Hotel de Rome, Berlin, setting forth demands at the Congress. The letter "confidently" claimed Armenians "constitute three-fifths of the population," and that the Powers should therefore approve "the administration of Armenia." "The Turks would have no objection," he wrote, for they also are Armenians. "The Armenians in History and the Armenian Question," Esat Uras, p. 484; Bishop Mushegh, Armenian Immigrants in Manchester, Boston, 1911, p. 82-85 [Armenian]. . Armenian clergyme were very much behind the heinous plans of murder and mayhe of Muslims. They even stored weapons and ammunition in churches; collected money for funding arms purchases. They must come clean now and apologize to the entire world for misleading the Armenians down a path of self-inflicted death and destruction. They must cleanse their souls by confessing the truth behind the bogus Armenian genocide. Enough is enough.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 12:29pm

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"The purpose of the Armenian movement has been, from the beginning, to organize as far as possible a long drawn-out fight against the Ottoman tyranny, to create in the country a continuous revolutionary state, always having before our eyes the intervention of the third factor...the European factor" Source: Mikael Varandian, Dashnak ideologue, History of the Dashnagtzoutune/A.R.Federation (Paris,1932 and Cairo,1950), p.3; also, from p. 302: (By inciting massacres, Armenians) "wanted to assure European intervention" What simple, devious, heinous, ruthless, cowardly, and treasonous plan!

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 12:32pm

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Frakly I am surprised that TNR has allowed Mr. Kirlikovali to post as he has. His posts violate more than several rules posted on this site. Moreover his spam does nothing to promote the free exchange of ideas contemplated here. His quotations are unsupported and falsified. Attempts to validate his citations are unsuccessful. He must have a magic library with magic books that say just what he wants them to. His allegations about Ambassador Morganthau's autobiography are so preposterous that they verge on hysteria. I also find it hypocritical that he relies on Amb. Morgenthau's autobiography when he feels the need yet he challenges its authenticity in his next post. For anyone who really wants to know more about the turkish government's Genocide against the Armenians, I suggest that you pick up a copy of Amb. Morgenthau's autobiography (he was the Armerican ambassador to Turkey in 1915). If you also wonder about the derivation of the word Genocide itself, take a look at Andrew Goldberg's excellent documentary which aired on PBS. You can order it from PBS or see the relevant clips on You Tube. Mr. Goldberg includes actual video footage of Mr. Lemkin himself explaining how he came to create the word Genocide. Lemkin quite clearly states that he based the word on his own experience with the holocaust and the experience of the Armenians who suffered a holocaust in 1915 at the hands of the Turks. Mr. Kirlikovali- perhaps you should leave those protected gates of your home in Coto and do some real research. Your true bias against and hatred of Armenians is blinding you. For Kirlikovali's edification,

- Anoosh

January 14, 2009 at 1:13pm

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I can't believe how sad it is to see someone so vigilant in attacking the truth. Ergun Kirlikovali will say or create anything false to nullify true facts. He does not believe anything that non-Turks or non-Armenians say, except of course, when they agree with him. Sad,sad,sad... to see such indoctrination. It's obvious that both sides have been brought up to hate and disqualify the other. Since I was born in the United States, I feel lucky not to be surrounded by censorship. Two of my great-grandparents were killed in the genocide. My great-grandfather was a treasurer of some kind for the Ottoman Turks. He survived becaused the Turks he worked for took pity on him and gave him money and a boat and told him to escape. He was, however, not grateful because the Turks killed the rest of his family; brothers, sisters, etc.. So, what did I learn from all the stories that I heard growing up? An educated person knows that isolated incidents do not tell the whole story. You can quote all you want and even lie, but one day the truth will hit you. Who knows? Maybe one day you will find out your ancestors were really Armenian and what will you do then? Kill yourself, cry, or re-examine history with non-biased eyes. It's sad to see someone so determined to nullify the truth and full of hatred. I have worked with many Turks in the States in my job. My eye doctor is a Turk born in the States. I did not know he was Turkish, since I don't speak the language or know much about their last names. After eleven years of going to the same eye doctor, my husband noticed the doctor's diploma on the wall and said he is Turkish. I said, no way. We asked the doctor and he said, yes he was, but he does not participate in history nor the denial of it. He felt bad that he kept his identity from me as he blushed. I had once asked him if he was Eastern European because his first name is Steve, but his diploma had Sefir, or something like that. I remember years ago, he said, yes, he was "Eastern European, or something like that." He did not elaborate and I dropped the subject. Now, eleven years later, I was shocked that he was Turkish but did not want to reveal it in the beginning. I once went to another eye doctor through my eye insurance and he could not take the correct eye measurements for my contact lens, a special type. His office was closer to my home. Twice he messed up and even though, Steve was not covered by my eye insurance, I went back to Steve. Why? He is better than the other doctor and I actually pay the difference between my eye insurance and his fees. Since I was born here, I don't see a reason to continue "hating." I believe eventually the world will recognize the truth of the genocide and finally put the matter to rest. As I have worked with some Turks in my career, I, too never revealed that I was Armenian, either. They never knew and I did not feel the need to let them know and create an uncomfortable atmosphere. So, I tried to be cordial and eventually, all 4 of them, throughout my 10 year-career, moved to other companies. I don't believe in creating a hostile work environment, so I did not say anything. I just feel that "do unto others" should be the motto. I did not approve of the Dashnag "terrorist attacks of the 70's" of diplomats, but also feel that simply shooting someone for being a journalist (Hrant Dink) is crazy as well. Too bad many Armenians and Turks can't just agree that genocide happened. Why would anyone want to hear such awful stories of the genocide when they can hear positive things? That is my proof that genocide occurred. Too bad we did not have cell phones and video cameras back then. Ergun Kirlikovali would probably refute that evidence by saying it was fabricated by Armenian actors posing as Turks; such would be the brainwashed, indoctrined response. Signed, a sad observer.

- sadobserver

January 14, 2009 at 1:52pm

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Sad, All is not lost. 27,000 brave and honorable Turks risked life and limb merely to show compassion to Armenians, who are widely hated in Turkey.

- jda

January 14, 2009 at 2:52pm

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"(The Dashnaks)’ aim was by crimes and assassinations to invite Turkish reprisals and massacres, and thus create an international scandal that would attract the intervention of the other powers." Source: David Thompson, "Europe Since Napoleon" (Alfred A. Knopf, 1964, 2nd. Ed.) Instead of tackling the truth, Armenian falsifiers resort to insults, deceit, libel, ridicule, intimidation, and threat. But they are no match for one’s passion for truth. How come no one talks about Dashnak hate crimes? But don’t worry, I managed to buy a copy of controlled circulation dashnak book. There, they list, boastfully, how many Turks they killed how, when, where, and by whom. Ah, life is full of surprises, after all…

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 3:48pm

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"The Dashnak revolutionary society is working to stir up a situation in which Muslims and Armenians will attack each other, and thus pave the way for Russian intervention " Source: General Mayewski, Russian Consul General in Bitlis and Van, December 1912; source: Kara Schemsi, Turcs et Armeniens devant l'Histoire, Geneve, Imprimerie Nationale, 1919, p. 11 See how many different people, widely different sources, corroborate the heinous war crimes of the Armenians? Is Levy that biased that he cannot see this?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 3:49pm

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Armenians had people organized under the Turkish flag" (in Bitlis and Van, eastern Anatolia) Source: Dashnak report prepared in 1910 by M. Warandian (likely Mikael Varandian) for submission to the organization's convention in Copenhagen's Socialist International; from the archives (No. B.579238) of the Socialist International in Vandervelde, and mentioned in an article written by Orhan Kologlu in the April 2005 issue of the Turkish magazine, "Populer Tarih" (Popular History)... confirming that Armenian preparations for revolt were in the works years before the outbreak of W.W.I.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 3:51pm

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"When I say that the Armenian massacres were caused by the Armenian revolutionists, I tell the truth, and a very important one, but it is not the whole truth. It would be more correct to say that the presence of the revolutionists gave occasion and excuse for the massacres. That the Turks were looking for an excuse, no one can doubt who has traversed that country." Source: George Hughes Hepworth, "Through Armenia on Horseback" (NY, 1898, p. 339); and why would the Turks have suddenly been looking for an excuse, after a millennium of peaceful coexistence? Moreover, if massacre was so decided upon, would the Turks have needed an excuse? While traveling on horseback, Hepworth no doubt encountered negative opinions on Armenians from Turks, but by this time, there were years of Armenian violence and massacre trying the Turks' patience. The inevitable conclusion: if not for the revolutionists, there would have been no massacres. At least on that final point, we can all agree.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 3:57pm

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"'Do you believe that any massacres would have taken place if no Armenian revolutionaries had come into the country and incited the Armenian population to rebellion?' I asked Mr. Graves [The British consul]. 'Certainly not,' he replied. 'I do not believe that a single Armenian would have been killed.'" Source: Sydney Whitman, "Turkish Memories," London, 1914, p. 74. Any questions?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 3:57pm

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“The Armenian issue, which aims at meeting the economic interests of the capitalist world rather than bearing in mind the veritable interests of the Armenians themselves was best resolved with the Kars Agreement. The friendly ties between two industrious people coexisting peacefully for centuries have been satisfactorily established anew.” Source: Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, 1.3.1922, Inaugural Speech of the 3rd Year of Session of the Turkish Grand National Assembly. Armenian falsifiers tried to smear this visionary leader, too. They fabricated an interview with a Mustafa Kemal in 1926 with a Swiss journalist whom professor Turkkaya Ataov traced with cooperation from the Swiss Government toreveal the fact that that Swiss journalist did not exist. Then the Armenians photo-shopped to remove a puppy at Ataturk’s feet and replace it with a bunch of dad children. The Armenians spread this lie all over the world. Then, when their lie was exposed, they boasted about how smart they were! Go figure this culture that cherishes deceit, lies, and terrorism. Who do you really believe? The tricky Armenian who frequently lies here of this honest Turk?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 4:04pm

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"In fact we have an organization extraordinarily widespread in the United States. . . . It should be noticed that no attack has been made upon us in any quarter of the United States, and that in the eyes of the American people the quiet and subterranean nature of our work has the appearance of a purely private patriotism and enterprise..." Source: Sir Gilbert Parker in a letter to the British Foreign Office. By 1917, the Canadian managing Wellington House's U.S.A. branch had a list of 170,000 to send anti-German and anti-Turkish propaganda to the Who's Who of American society, targeting "every editor and molder of public opinion." That’s how the Armenian falsifications were instilled into the hearts and minds of the unsuspecting Americans.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 4:05pm

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"Armenians lived as local notables. They had no feeling of national unity. There were no political bonds or ties among them. Their only attachments were to the neighbouring notables. Thus whatever national feelings they had were local." Source: Kevork Aslan, Armenian historian, L'Armenie et les Armeniens, Istanbul, 1914 (No wonder they had no loyalty...)

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 4:06pm

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"Wholly opportunistic, Dashnag politics have been variously pro-Nazi, pro-Russia, pro-Soviet Armenia, pro-Arab, pro-Jewish, as well as anti-Jewish, anti-Zionist, anti-Communist, and anti-Soviet — whichever was expedient." Source: John Roy Carlson (Arthur Derounian), author, Cairo to Damascus Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1951, p. 438. Holdwater: Some sites have substituted "The Armenians" for "Dashnag politics." Not all Armenians support the Dashnaks (Carlson was a true Armenian patriot for disliking these scoundrels, who brought such misery to so many), but because the Dashnak terrorist method has been to silence all opposing voices, that works out to be a fair substitution, in my view. Those who are silent, comply.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 4:07pm

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".... Should the Armenians ever get the upper hand in Anatolia, their government would be much more corrupt than the actual administration. It was corroborated by the Armenians themselves..." Source: Fred Burnaby, "On Horseback Through Asia Minor" (Holdwater: while it sounds like the author could be talking about current Armenia, the book detailed an 1876 journey to see whether the Sultan's armies were capable of resisting yet another Russian thrust. Burnaby was reputed to be the strongest man in the British Army.)

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 4:08pm

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"The Turks and Armenians got on excellently together... The Russians restricted the Armenian Church, schools and language; the Turks on the contrary were perfectly tolerant and liberal as to all such matters. They did not care how the Armenians prayed, taught and talked... The Armenians were thorough Orientals and appreciated Turkish ideas and habits... (They) were quite content to live among the Turks.... The balance of wealth certainly remained with the Christians. The Turks treated them with good-humoured confidence..." Source: Sir Charles Eliot, author, "Turkey in Europe" (London, E. Arnold, 1900); regarding the years preceding the Turkish-Russian War of 1877-78. Ingrates!

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 4:09pm

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(The religious toleration of the Ottoman Government) "was complete" (and the state) "never in any way interfered with what the Christians did or taught in the schools or the churches.... it was impossible to desire more absolute liberty of worship or teaching." Source: Gratan Geary, "Through Asiatic Turkey" (London, M.S. and R. Sampson, 1878) And how did the Armenians thank? Wids raids, rebellions, treason, land demands, propaganda, agitation, bloodshed… And when Turks responded with Tereste (temporary resettlement) they cried genocide. Who do you believe? The tricky Armenian or the honest Turk? Who?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 4:11pm

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I forgot Arabs

- jda

January 14, 2009 at 4:40pm

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"The Armenians change their position relating to Rome and the Persian Empire, sometimes supporting one and sometimes the other ... they are a strange people" Source: Tacitus, Roman historian; his Annalum Liber (EK: Tell me about it!)

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 14, 2009 at 4:56pm

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It has come to my attention that the American puppets of the International Armenian Conspiracy each day demean Turkish people by calling our glorious home "Turkey", a dry, flightless bird unworthy of our Ottoman and Turkish culture. We demand that from now on you use the word 'Turkiye'and refer to Armenia, Northern Syria, Northern Iraq, pretty much all of Russia, Alaska and Greece as "occupied Turkiye". We have lawyers.

- almost Errorgun

January 14, 2009 at 7:50pm

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The comments of the Turkish ultra-nationalists here are even more reason to sign this act of muslim mass murder of infidels in 1915 into law ASAP. The so-called "Turkish-Americans" are clearly not integrated into American judeo-christian society but neither are any other muslims in the West living among infidels. The Koran made the Turks do it in 1915. It is clear that it was jihad as their own sultan proclaimed. Turkish Muslim liars practicing Islamic Taqqiya in the lands of the infidels ! Non-Muslims beware!

- pn2009

January 15, 2009 at 1:14am

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Too many innocent ones died. The Turkish nation is improving, but has not been rehabilitated like Germans. When enlightened leaders emerge, we hope Turkey and the Armenians will make peace. How about a parallel Armenian rehabilitation?

- S4200

January 15, 2009 at 9:08am

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I trust nothing that Levy has written, in light of his absurd, counter factual conclusion: "Laws prohibiting Holocaust denial are expressions of the fact that genocide, a perfect crime, leaves no traces. In fact, the obliteration of those traces is genocide's final phase. Holocaust deniers are not merely expressing an opinion; they are perpetrating a crime." The genocides he has described have left abundant traces. The crimes of the Nazis and the Turks, among others, are well known and well documented. And, if by some remote possibility there were no traces, how could one determine that denial constitutes a crime, since there would be no evidence of the crime? Levy is a performer, a clever wordsmith, but ultimately a fraud.

- Pete Beck

January 15, 2009 at 10:14am

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Mr. Henri Levi’s anger over the silencing of brave Turks like Hrant Dinka is well-founded, but it is more than a little disappointing to read his suggestion that the proper response to the suppression of free speech in Turkey is to engage in similar repression in the West. I should hope he is under no illusion that a law against genocide denial could be passed in Turkey itself, where in fact the individual who proposed such a thing would stand a fair chance of finding himself placed on trial for an alternate thought crime like “insulting Turkishness.” That leaves the question of their implementation in Western countries (presumably other than the U.S., given that such a measure would be a patent violation of the First Amendment), where they would serve not the challenge the unreflective views of the political establishment but – as any regulation on speech inherently does, of course – to back up with force whatever opinions carry the political favor of the day. Those who assume that a genocide denial ban would affect only the scattered Neo-Nazi or, at worst, perhaps the stray aggravating fellow like Mr. Kirlikovali, may be interested in knowing that Princeton historian Bernard Lewis was condemned and fined in a French civil suit for a lack of “objectivity” after questioning whether the massacres of Armenians during the war – which he in no way denied – were the result of genocidal intent. The problem? Mr. Lewis’ scholarly credentials aside, the European Parliament had classified the slaughter as a genocide, so genocide it must be. One may agree or disagree with Lewis’ academic opinion, but does anyone truly suspect that he was guilty of the sort of nationalist hate-mongering that genocide denial laws would be intended to prevent? More importantly, do we really believe that such questions are better resolved by resolutions of the European Parliament than by reasoned debate between Lewis, his colleagues, and anyone else who can contribute an informed opinion on the subject? Henri Levi writes that “the facts have been established, and new laws will prevent them from being altered.” This is nonsense, and dangerous nonsense at that. Facts are protected by evidence; only orthodoxies are protected by law. Surely it is a fundamental precept of free academic inquiry that no question, no matter how controversial, must be placed beyond the realm of free and open debate. Certainly there are some questions upon which, in light of the evidence we currently possess, only a crank could deny the scholarly consensus, but in such cases far better to allow hacks, anti-Semites, and madmen to expose themselves for what they are and wither under the pressure of critical assessment than to lend them the subversive glow of being rebels against the state. Henri Levi mentions with regret the attention that accrued to David Irving during his unsuccessful libel suit against Deborah Lipstadt; but he cannot be unaware that Irving’s work garnered at least as much notice from his own 2005 trial and imprisonment in Austria for “trivialising the Holocaust.” (This is hardly an unusual pattern; BNP leader Nick Griffin, for instance, remarked in 2006 that his prosecution over race hate charges had been “very good for the party.”) Henri Levi also suggests that, while outlawing the truly heinous phenomenon of genocide denial, we could avoid sliding down the slippery slope into criminalization of blasphemy or denial of colonial crimes. This is more than a bit naïve. While of course we could technically tailor the law to specify whatever we wished (leaving aside for the moment the thorny question of how to legally distinguish the David Irvings from the Bernard Lewises), once it is passed there is little to prevent it from becoming a political football, with various aggrieved groups angrily questioning why the Jews and Armenians have special protection while their own pet causes are left blowing in the wind – precisely the argument that has been made repeatedly by Muslim groups in order to extend the purview of existing hate speech and blasphemy laws in Europe. In fact, the criminalization of speech beyond the “easy case” of genocide denial is not a distant threat but a reality, from France’s prosecutions of Birgitte Bardot for criticizing Muslim ritual slaughter of animals to Greece’s investigation of an art curator for displaying a painting deemed insulting to the Orthodox Church. What we need now is not the expansion, but the dismantling of such prohibitions. Intellectuals and concerned citizens like Henri Levi simply cannot push for a ban on the forms of expression that they (with good reason) find particularly problematic while expecting that religious and other groups will refrain from doing the same. Yet, Henri Levi argues, the truth will not just defend itself. He notes that permitting genocide to be forgotten would be, in some sense, a belated victory for its perpetrators and their efforts to erase history. That’s an entirely valid point – which is why it’s the duty of Henri Levi, his fellow intellectuals, and all of us who consider ourselves seekers after truth to keep the memory alive; not by appealing to the government for the protection of its sword, but by appealing to the public on the basis of reason. Abandon that principle, whether as a small exception for a particularly important case or a gesture of respect for a particularly aggrieved group, and we are effectively signaling our lack of faith in the very foundation of a free society.

- Ryn

January 15, 2009 at 10:26am

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"…(Armenian) prosperity grew until, by the middle of the 19th century, they became one of the richest communities of the Ottoman empire, prominent not only in trade and professions, but also in the service of state…" Source: Dr. Andrew Mango, March 15, 2001 speech at the Society for the Promotion of Democratic Principles, in Istanbul. (EK: Backstabbing ingrates!)

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 15, 2009 at 11:02am

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"…Armenians are so pleased with their lives that this is impossible...." Source: French Ambassador in Istanbul, in response to Napoleon Bonaparte's query to induce rebellion among the Ottoman Empire's Catholic Armenians and take a kind of revenge for the Akka defeat.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 15, 2009 at 11:04am

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"The great Turk is governing in peace twenty nations from different religions. Turks have taught the Christians how to be moderate in peace and gentle in victory" Source: Voltaire (1694 – 1778), a French Enlightenment writer, essayist, deist and philosopher known for hisdefense of civil liberties, including freedom of religion and free trade

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 15, 2009 at 11:08am

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"Correct behavior" Source: Marechal Franchet d'Esperay, a French commander of the allied occupation army, referring to the Turkish people and military authorities. From the preface of Commander Larcher's "The Turkish War within the First World War." (Genocide is a later fabrication of the Armnenian lobby that came into being in 1965, i.e. 50 years after the events were settled as atragic civil war. Genocide is a political tool, not honest scholarship.)

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 15, 2009 at 11:11am

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"We have studied the Turkish peasant — i.e. the mass of the Turkish people — and got to know him as unconditionally one of the bravest and most moral representatives of the European peasantry" Source: Karl Marx, speaking for himself and Engels, "Karl Marx: His Life and Thought," David McLellan, 1973, pp. 438-439. Any questions?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 15, 2009 at 11:12am

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I disagree with pn2009 on several scores. Although CUP enlisted the religious establishment to kill Christians, and local imams encouraged slaughter, religion was not the primary driver of the Genocide. It was primarily ethnic, although it was the Christian non-Turks who were singled out for the worst slaughter. Moslem Kurds were also relocated at horrible loss of life, but not the kind of slaughter Christians suffered. I also disagree that Moslems here have not integrated. Remember that Greeks, Assyrians and Armenians have typically been well integrated into non-Turk Moslem countries. In Iran, April 24 is a major observation, and Armenians are well integrated into Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and Iraq. The problem is with Turkish Fascists and Racists.

- jd

January 15, 2009 at 11:14am

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"[The Turks] are the most honest and moral of the Orientals." Source: Elder Tanner, Mormon missionary, "Who Can be So Polite and Courteous As a Turk," Millenial Star, June 22, 1886). The Mormon missionaries were not as bigoted as Protestant and Catholic one about Turks. Compare that with the falsifying, deceiving Armenian nationalists, one of whom writes here under million different fake names to dupe the reader. He is so “tricky” that he creates a heated discussion among those fake names he created to show that he is right. I don’t know if pathological liar does justice to this Armenian; perhaps there is a better name to describe liars schemers like him. Diabolical maybe?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 15, 2009 at 11:18am

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"Everywhere they forget their table manners, they don't make their beds, and they laugh during the wrong times at movies" Ms. Clare Ohanessian-Petrossyan-Mkhitchalian, discussing the problems she has with Armenian Camp Fire Girls, My Problems with Kids (Tell me about it-EK)

- Ergot

January 15, 2009 at 11:18am

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“Courageous in misfortune, uncomplaining under the most awful suffering, good-humoured in every situation . . . it is deeply painful to think that the men whom I almost idealized should lie under the accusation of the atrocities which we must believe have been committed in 1896. Yet through the black cloud that hangs over the Turkish Empire today I can still discern the distant stars; for I can look back with honest pride to the high sense of honour, the dauntless courage, the loyalty and true patriotism of those who were my comrades . . . in the earlier and brighter days” Source: Charles S. Ryan, "Under the Red Crescent," 1897, p. 425.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 15, 2009 at 11:19am

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"Everywhere they thank the Turk for their splendid and happy lives; they acknowledge that paying the jizzya tax is the least they can do to show their gratitude, and they thank the Turk and Kurd for reminding them when to harvest their crops by firing their guns and cannon at them; for burning them alive in their Churches to spur new Church-building, and for killing the weak and old to clear out genetic dead wood. Like the American slaves improved by slavery, Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians are happy thanks to the Turk." Diary of Mikhaiel Moogian

- Error Kickthevalley

January 15, 2009 at 11:23am

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But, when Hrant Dink was murdered, Turkish people, president, all members of goverment, bureaucrats from all levels, journalists sincerely mourned and condemned the murderer. Millions of Turkish citizens gathered in his funeral ceremony and shouted as ‘we are all Armenian’ with tears. Including the annual Press Freedom Award of Turkish Journalist Association, Hrant Dink was awarded with many prizes, after his death. Additionally, 60 000 illegal Armenian immigrant workers who are Armenian citizens are working throughout Turkey, at present. If Turkey and Turks also adopted the language of violence and enmity how could these Armenians go on working in this country? Note that, the Armenian criminal of Orly Airport massacre, Karapetyan, a member of outlawed terrorist Armenian organization ASALA, who was imprisoned for 18 years but set free by France, returned to Armenia in May 2001, he was welcomed by the then Armenian prime minister A.Margaryan, the Armenian folk and journalists who applauded him as if he were a national hero. A. Margaryan told that he appreciated this hero’s service for his country. Armenian Yerivan municipality provided work and house for the MURDERER (www.prima-news.ru/news/articles/2001/9/13/15705.html)

- zekiye

January 15, 2009 at 11:28am

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"The Protestant missionaries distributed in large numbers to various places in Turkey made propaganda in favour of England and stirred the Armenians to desire autonomy under British protection…" Source: Horen Ashikian, The Armenian Patriarch, in "History of Armenia." (Mr. Ashikian was probably quoted, and was not the writer of this book, of which there were several... by process of elimination, the book was probably either the 1936 one written by V.C. Vahan, or one by Vahan Kurjian, in 1958. Hovhannes, the Fifth Catholicos of the Armenians, also wrote a book by the same name in 1912.) The fact remains: the missionaries abused the Turkish goodwill and tolerance; got Sultan;s permission to operate in Ottoman lands; but worked hard to divide and polarize Sultan’s subjects; incited rebellions in the country; destroyed a millennium of Muslim-Christian peaceful co-habitation in Anatolia; and they did all that in the name of god. I say they should come clean and apologize to the entire world for their significant role in the human tragedy in the last quarter of 19th Century and the first of 20th. I shall continue to remind the missionaries that they cannot find inner peace and closure until they fess up and apologize.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 15, 2009 at 11:28am

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"(Turkish Sultan) Meliksah's heart is full of affection and goodwill for Christians, he has treated the sons of Jesus Christ very well, and he has given the Armenian people peace, affluence and happiness" Source: Mathias of Edessa, Armenian historian, Chronicles, Nr. 129

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 15, 2009 at 11:29am

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"The Armenians of Byzantium have welcomed the Seljuk conquest with lengthy celebrations in the streets and thanksgiving to God for having rescued them from long years of Byzantine oppression. Seljuk Turks gave protection to the Armenian Church, which the Byzantines had been trying to destroy. They abolished the oppressive taxes which the Byzantines had imposed on the Armenian Churches, monasteries and priests, and in fact exempted such religious institutions from all taxes. The Armenian community was left free to conduct its internal affairs in its own way, including religious activities and education, and there never was any time at which Armenians or other non-Muslims were compelled to convert to Islam. The Armenian spiritual leaders in fact went to the Seljuk Sultan Melikshah to thank him for his protection." Source: Stephanos Taronetsi ASOGHIK, Armenian historian who recorded his impressions on the arrival of Seljuk Turks toAnatolia around 1071, probably from his renowned Universal History.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 15, 2009 at 11:30am

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"How well the Seljuk Turks treated the Armenians is shown by the fact that some Armenian noble families like the Tashrik family accepted Islam on their own free will and joined the Turks in fighting Byzantium." Source: Mathias of Edessa, Armenian historian, probably in his Chronicles, Nr. 129; after the death of Sultan Kilic Arslan, the same Armenian historian also wrote, "Kilic Arslan's death has driven Christians into mourning since he was a charitable person of high caliber and character."

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 15, 2009 at 11:30am

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"There is no crime without evidence. A genocide cannot be written about in the absence of factual proof." Source: Henry R. Huttenbach, professor and genocide scholar, "Bosnia's Killing Fields: The Memory war," The Genocide Forum, 1996, No. 9

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 15, 2009 at 11:31am

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"Historical questions should be left to historians" Source: Mesrob II, Armenian Patriarch, 2001, Istanbul, Turkey.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 15, 2009 at 11:32am

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"The outcry and clamor of Armenians that Turks have been persecuting Armenians are nothing but lies. The Turkish government has done nothing evil to Armenians. Perhaps Armenians have planned a revolution taking advantage of the indifference of the government, have armed bands and sent them to mountains, as for the Turks, perhaps they have been trying only to pursue them and put down the uprisings." Source: Austrian Consul in a report submitted to his government, Nikerled Krayblis, “Rusya'nin fiark Siyaseti ve Vilayet-i fiarkiyye Mes'elesi” [Eastern Policy of Russia and the question of the Eastern Provinces], translated by Habil Adem, Istanbul, 1932, p. 178

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 15, 2009 at 11:34am

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What about the genocide going on in Gaza right now???

- gabrielle

January 15, 2009 at 12:35pm

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As an American, I truly hope we will never see the day when expressing a viewpoint, no matter how contentious with general beliefs it may be, becomes a crime. Then we will be no better than Turkey and it's clear lack of freedom of speech. As a Turkish-American, I ask all of you on this forum if you would ever take into consideration anything I said that differed even remotely from international consensus on the Armenian genocide. Unfortunately there is an inherent bias on both sides, and any type of constructive dialogue seems impossible because you're correct if you believe it was a genocide, and "clearly biased and brainwashed" if you even question it remotely. I am disgusted by Mr. Kirlikovali's remarks, and I agree that those remarks are exactly what discredits any actual dialogue from occuring; however, I just ask that everyone take a look at the own biases they may be bringing into this in every way of the word. Would you respect the opinion of a Turk who didn't believe it was a genocide, even when he/she presented what would be considered scholarly accurate facts and a respectful tone of conversation? And to Mr. Levy, who so quickly uses the Armenian Genocide to support genocide-denial laws--Israel's current argument for its disproportionate attack on Gaza sounds oddly familiar to Turkey's reasoning for it's own attack on Armenians--what say you to that? Is this the foundation for genocide as well?

- Pinar

January 16, 2009 at 12:11am

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To all those here who keep posting about Turkish denial, etc., please keep in mind that the Turkish people do not actually view this as denial. Their statements, though not always the most pragmatically delivered, are reflections of how they truly feel. Blame it on indoctrination, or blame it on oral history that for a century now is or has been interpreted to be true. However, most people in Turkey do not disagree with the term "genocide" just for the sake of being malicious, but because they actually believe that statement is an unfair accusation. Looking at it from their perspective (Turkey's government aside, which does sometimes seem a bit more malicious in its denial--behavior not appropriate for a national government), no country, or no individual, would be prepared to accept something they truly believed to be an unabashedly false. Should an innocent man on death row not fight because he was convicted? That's how the Turks feel. I hope that can help everyone understand the Turkish mindset a bit better and refrain from viewing the Turkish people negatively. They're in the fight for justice just as much as Armenians are.

- Pinar

January 16, 2009 at 12:27am

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From an Israeli newspaper about Turkey, land of tolerance towards Christians and Jews: "In Istanbul, a shop owned by a local Jewish family was targeted, as well. A huge poster saying, "Do not buy from here, since this shop is owned by a Jew," was plastered on the shop and other posters on the wall said, "Jews and Armenians are not allowed, but dogs are." On Wednesday, all Turkish high schools and primary schools will pay homage to Gazans killed in Israel's Operation Cast Lead. Art teachers are instructed to dedicate their classes to the topic, "Human Drama in Palestine," and to offer awards to outstanding compositions. A Turkish-Jewish source wishing to remain anonymous reported that Istanbul is filled with anti-Israel posters and billboards, as well as more explicit graffiti saying things like, "Kill Jews", "Kill Israel," and "Israel should no longer exist in the Middle East." Ergun, racism exists everywhere, but the Turkish kind is really scary because Jews, Armenians, Kurds, Alewis, Arabs, Assyrians, Greeks and Shia know that at any time it can mean mob violence and death. Riots against Christians and Jews occurred in 1955 on government orders. Plenty of government killings since, too. Something missing from Turkish tourist ads, and Bob Livingston's pitches to unsuspecting MCs.

- jda

January 16, 2009 at 1:53pm

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monsieur levy, you are supposed to write like a philosopher, with a logical flow of ideas. i would not give you 5 points out of a possible 10 for this amateurish propaganda piece. but then again, who said that you are a philosopher?

- foo bar baz

January 16, 2009 at 3:56pm

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Speaking only for myself, I want to say to Pinar that I agree: as an American I favor free speech, but I also understand why European nations may need laws criminalizing denial. They -including France - have terrible state and cultural crimes in their pasts towards Jews, and they realize the REAL murderous danger of anti-semitism, which prospers among denialists. In these countries, where there is no history of free speech like ours, they appreciate only the risk of racist provocation and incitement. Yes, Armenians and Turks can and do speak civilly to each other where they disagree about Genocide. There are groups, primarily of young and professional people all over the country who do just that. One outcome is to see our similarities and to listen respectfully to all family stories, including those of oft-overlooked Kurds, Assyrians and Greeks. Armenians do recognize that the Genocide does not fit the later Nazi template, although you would be surprised at some of the similarities such as medical experimentation and transport by railroad. My experience is that Turks in their 40's and 50's and older, esp. from the west of Turkey, often know nothing one way or the other about the Genocide or Armenians of the time. Those younger have been exposed to state sponsored school and political propaganda. And most Armenians condemn the ASALA actions. In fact, it was pressure from within the communty that ended them. But ASALA and the Genocide are not linked. I know of no national Armenian-Americans or organizations that spew hatred like Kirlikovali's, whom the TA groups publish and elevate to high office. I predict he will accuse Pinar of being an Armenian, or of being me. I thank Pinar for differentiating himself from Kirlikovali.

- jda

January 16, 2009 at 4:19pm

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Speaking only for myself, I want to say to Pinar that I agree: as an American I favor free speech, but I also understand why European nations may need laws criminalizing denial. They -including France - have terrible state and cultural crimes in their pasts towards Jews, and they realize the REAL murderous danger of anti-semitism, which prospers among denialists. In these countries, where there is no history of free speech like ours, they appreciate only the risk of racist provocation and incitement. Yes, Armenians and Turks can and do speak civilly to each other where they disagree about Genocide. There are groups, primarily of young and professional people all over the country who do just that. One outcome is to see our similarities and to listen respectfully to all family stories, including those of oft-overlooked Kurds, Assyrians and Greeks. Armenians do recognize that the Genocide does not fit the later Nazi template, although you would be surprised at some of the similarities such as medical experimentation and transport by railroad. My experience is that Turks in their 40's and 50's and older, esp. from the west of Turkey, often know nothing one way or the other about the Genocide or Armenians of the time. Those younger have been exposed to state sponsored school and political propaganda. And most Armenians condemn the ASALA actions. In fact, it was pressure from within the communty that ended them. But ASALA and the Genocide are not linked. I know of no national Armenian-Americans or organizations that spew hatred like Kirlikovali's, whom the TA groups publish and elevate to high office. I predict he will accuse Pinar of being an Armenian, or of being me. I thank Pinar for differentiating himself from Kirlikovali.

- jda

January 16, 2009 at 4:19pm

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Zekiye, Hrant Dink was no Turkish national hero. Not millions, but maybe 100,000 marched in the street in the famous "I am an Armenian" march. Turkish nationalists followed up with much larger "I am a Turk" celebration to answer the feeble humanitarian gesture of their fellow citizens. And, Turkish racists like the celebrated Kirlikovali wrote pieces suggesting that Dink was killed by an Armenian to defame Turkey. I do not know about the celebration of the Armenian from Orly airport, but I condemn his acts. However, if true, these celebratory acts do not show that anyone in Armenia is in danger. By contrast, Armenians in Turkey live in fear and oppression.

- jda

January 16, 2009 at 5:46pm

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Some quick facts about Judeo-Turkic relations: ---------- -Sephardic Jews fleeing the Spanish Inquisition were the first large contingent of Jewish-Turks, settling in Constantinople beginning in 1492. (among which were the ascendants of Bob Dylan) -Turkey served a transit area for European Jews feeling the Holocaust. -Turkey was the first predominantly Muslim country to formally recognize the state of Israel less than a year after it's founding and during the final stages of the Arab-Israeli war (1948-49) -Turkey is Israel's 8th largest trade partner, has conducted joint naval excercises, and are in talks for the construction of a massive pipeline between the two countries. ---------- There is no argument that the ruling party's reaction to the current conflict in Gaza has strained relations between Israel and Turkey. Interpreting the recent (ruling-party sponsored) protests as evidence of deeply engrained anti-semitism in Turkish society, however, is an unfair conclusion that is simply not borne out by historical evidence.

- Charlie

January 16, 2009 at 5:51pm

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"The truth is that the party (Dashnak Committee) was ruled by an oligarchy, for whom the particular interests of the party came before the interests of the people and nation. They (the Dashnaks) made collections among the bourgeois and the great merchants. At the end, when these means were exhausted, they resorted to terrorism, after the teachings of the Russian revolutionaries that the end justifies the means." Source: Dr. Jean Loris-Melikoff, La Revolution Russe et les Nouvelles Republiques Transcaucasiennes, Paris, 1920, p. 81

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 9:23pm

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"Religious communities had long become revolutionary hearts of the Armenian revolutionary parties and most diabolical plans had been drawn up there. Religious spaces had become warehouses of arms and hearths of plots. Religious leaders had been exhorting the people to rise up against the state with their speeches and writings, people that had trusted them. They did not preach any more the teaching of the Gospel and utter noble words in their sermons. Rebellion had replaced loyalty and righteousness in their sermons, hatred and revenge had taken the place of humanity. Meanness and ignominy were preached in place of high morality. Religious leaders presided over festivities, meetings and ceremonies organised by revolutionary committees." Source: Gevand Turyan, Armenian bishop and Ottoman citizen, "A Qui la Faute?" Aux Partis Revue Arménien. (Publication de la Revue Dadiar). Constantinople, 1917, pp. 40-41.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 9:23pm

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"Czarist Russia at no time wanted to assure Armenian autonomy. For this reason, one must consider the Armenians who were working for Armenian autonomy as no more than agents of the Czar to attach Eastern Anatolia to Russia…" Source: Borian, Armenian historian, author of Armeniya Mejdunarodnaya Diplomatiya; SSSR. Cast 11, Moskva, 1929 (Armenians have been used not only by Briatin and France, but also, perhaps to a greater degree, by the Tsarist Russia. Armenian revolutionaries were too consumed with the idiotic notion of greater Armenia to see this. )

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 9:26pm

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(The Armenian revolutionary committees considered that) "…the most opportune time to institute the general rebellion for carrying out the immediate objectives was when Turkey was engaged in war…" Source: Louise Nalbandian, Armenian Revolutionary Movement, University of California Press, 1963 (What would the U.S. do if Armenians plotted similar rebellions here, committed heinous hate crimes, and killed half a million Americans in America to realize a free Armenia, say in Glendale or Fresno? What would France do if Armenians there claimed Lyon was Armenia and killed half a million French citizens? Levy should learn more about what Lewy and Lewis think about Armenian crimes, before jumping to self-serving conclusions.)

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 9:32pm

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"As soon as the Russians have crossed the borders and the Ottoman armies have started to retreat, you should revolt everywhere. The Ottoman armies thus will be placed between two fires. On the other hand, the Armenians in the Ottoman army should desert their units with their weapons and unite with the Russians…" Source: Dashnak committee order to the Armenians preparing to revolt within the Ottoman Empire. (Still insist on a genocide conviction without a court verdict? )

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 9:34pm

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"The entire Armenian Nation will join forces — moral and material, and waving the sword of Revolution, will enter this World conflict ... as comrades in arms of the Triple Entente, and particularly Russia. They will cooperate with the Allies, making full use of all political and revolutionary means for the final victory of Armenia, Cilicia, Caucasus, Azerbaijan. ... [H]eroes who will sacrifice their lives for the great cause of Armenia.... Armenians proud to shed their blood for the cause of Armenia...." Hunchak Armenian [Revolutionary] Gazette, in a call to arms just prior to the formal declaration of war against Germany and the Ottoman Empire, November 1914 issue, Paris. (Note the date you genocide lynch mobs!)

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 9:36pm

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"…The Armenians have taken their place on the side of the Entente states without showing any hesitation whatsoever; they have placed all their forces at the disposition of Russia; and they also are forming volunteer battalions..." Horizon, the Dashnak Society's official organ, as soon as Russia declared war on the Ottoman Empire

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 9:37pm

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"The Hunchak Committee will use all means to assist the Entente states, devoting all its forces to the struggle to assure victory in Armenia, Cilicia, the Caucasus and Azerbaijan as the ally of the Entente states, and in particular of Russia." Source: Hunchak Committee instructions to its organizations in Ottoman territory; Aspirations et Agissements Revolutionnaires des Comites Armeniens avant et apres la Proclamation de la Constitution Ottomane, Istanbul, 1917, pp. 151-153

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 9:38pm

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"…The volunteer Armenian regiments in the Caucasus should prepare themselves for battle, serve as advance units for the Russian armies to help them capture the key positions in the districts where the Armenians live, and advance into Anatolia, joining the Armenian units already there..." Source: Papazyan, the Armenian representative in the Ottoman Parliament for Van, in a published proclamation; he would soon turn out to be a leading guerilla fighter against the Ottomans (Even a pro-Armenian biased Levy should be able understand the rebellion and treason planned here and that the Turks were only defending their home, like any citizen anywhere would do in the face of brutal foreign invasions, domestic fifth columns, treason and rebellions.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 9:41pm

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“…The long-anticipated day of deliverance for the Turkish Armenians is at hand and the Armenians are prepared for any sacrifice made necessary by the performance of their manifest duty...” Source: An Ottoman-Armenian newspaper, probably one of the two published in Van ("Van Kartali" or "Araratli"), as quoted in The New York Times article, ARMENIANS FIGHTING TURKS ("Besieging Van—Others operating in Turkish Army's Rear,") November 7, 1914

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 9:42pm

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"...These gangs were advancing by plundering and pillaging (nehib ve garet) the properties/goods (emvalini) of the Moslem villages they passed through and massacred and destroyed even babies in cradles...." Source: Ottoman Royal Army report describing the actions of 10,000 Armenian committee men (acc'd to the Armenian Catholicos V. the Kevork, B.A. Boryan, Armeniya Mejdunarodnaya Diplomatiya; SSSR. Cast 11, Moskva, 1929, p. 363) regarding the uprising started in "Shitak Country" on April 17, 1915, followed by further riots by Armenians in the entire province of Van, culminating in the Russians' entry of Van on May 19th, causing some 30,000 Turks to flee with heavy losses.(Note the date you genocide lynch mobs!)

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 9:44pm

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"…As it is known, the Russian government gave 242,900 rubles at the beginning of the war for the initial cost of arming and preparing the Turkish Armenians and to start riots within the country during the war. Our volunteer units were obliged to break the chains of the Turkish Army by cutting through, causing anarchy in Turkey and joining the rioters from behind together with those fighting inside the enemy lines if possible and to provide the propagation of the Russian Armies to get hold of Turkish Armenia..." Source: Dashnak Party Military Minister, Armenian National Congress meeting in Tbilisi, February 1915; B.A. Boryan, Armeniya Mejdunarodnaya Diplomatiya; SSSR. Cast 11, Moskva, 1929, p. 360. (A quarter-million rubles in 1915 was a fortune)

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 9:45pm

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"A battalion, consisting of Armenian volunteers , was organized in Kars. Inevitable danger hung over their families numbering 10,000... Please take care of these unhappy victims and don’t let Ottomans take vengeance on Armenians who showed their love for Russia... That’s why I dare to ask you to give me the power to resettle the Armenians in Georgia and Armenia. In my opinion approximately 50 silver rubles for each family will be enough...” Source: Ivan Feodorovich Paskevich (Count of Erivan after the conquest of the province from the Persian war of 1826-28, and field marshal after the Russo-Turkish War of 1828–29), reporting to the Russian Tsar on October 10, 1829. As one can see, the Ottoman-Armenian treachery in helping the invading Russians had begun a long time ago. The Ottoman government was concerned about once-dispersed Armenians who were now compacted into one area along the borderline... a key reason why future rebellions would be made possible. On February 17, 1830 an amnesty for local Armenians was announced, forgiving the Armenians’ betrayal and massacres, chiefly as a strategic move against the Russians. 1915 was the last link on that chain of subversions, rebellion, fifth column, and treason.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 9:49pm

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“…As soon as the Armenian volunteer units commanded by Antranik approach Van, the Dashnak fighters in the area will take to the mountains and unfurl the flag of revolt. The plans for the rebellion will be implemented in April 1915. The Catholicos has informed us that 10,000 armed fighters are ready to join the action.” Source: Dashnak decision, end of February 1915 Armenian National Congress held in Tiblis. [The Armenians in History and the Armenian Question; Esat Uras, Documentary Publications, Istanbul (1988); p.853] Please note: Catholicos is sort of like the pope of Armenians. Can you imagine the pope scheming mass- murder and mayhem? What kind of religion is this where the top clergymen routinely get involved in planning, executing, and waging raids, rebellions, and treason? Weren’t the Armenian churches also involved in raising funds for the legal defense of convicted Armenian terrorists in the past 30 years? What has changed? Not much, it seems…

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 9:53pm

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"… From all countries Armenians are hurrying to enter the ranks of the glorious Russian Army, with their blood to serve the victory of Russian arms... Let the Russian flag wave freely over the Dardanelles and the Bosporus. Let, with Your will, great Majesty, the peoples remaining under the Turkish yoke receive freedom. Let the Armenian people of Turkey who have suffered for the faith of Christ receive resurrection for a new free life under the protection of Russia..." Source: Samson Harutunian, president of the Armenian National Bureau in Tiflis, in response to Czar Nicholas II's visit to the Caucasus, to make final plans for cooperation with the Armenians against the Ottomans. (Source; also cited in p. 45 of Prof. Hovannisian's "Armenia on the Road to Independence" as having appeared in the Nov. 30, '14 issue of Hairenik Taregirk, V, Boston 1947, p. 126)) Genocide crowds today are the ones who ignore history or “selectively remember” some facts that support their foregone conclusion…

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 9:56pm

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"…As demonstrated by the innumerable declarations, provocative pamphlets, weapons, ammunition, explosives, & c., found in areas inhabited by Armenians, the rebellion was prepared for a long time, organized, strengthened and financed by Russia. Information was received on time in Istanbul about an Armenian assassination attempt directed at high ranking state officials and officers..." Source: General Bronsart v. Schellendorf , Chief of Staff to the Ottoman Commander-in-Chief, Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, July 24, 1921; a differently worded translation, with the same meaning, may be found on the TAT page featuring the entire article. (“Poor, starving Armenian” huh? How about” scheming, lying, gun-toting, bomb exploding Armenian?” )

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 9:58pm

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"…When war broke out the Armenians of these regions [the Eastern provinces] made secret contact with the Russian authorities in the Caucasus, and an underground network was created which enabled recruits to be gotten from these Turkish provinces for the Russian Army...” Source: Philips Price, A History of Turkey, 1956, p. 91 (Questions, anyone?)

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 9:58pm

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"…In return for Russia's forcing the Ottomans to make reforms for the Armenians, all the Russian Armenians would support the Russian war effort without conditions…" Source: The Catholicos of Echmiadzin assures the Russian General Governor of the Caucasus, Vranzof Dashkof; source: Tchalkouchian, Gr., Le Livre Rouge, Paris, 1919 (Here we go again, with the Armenian clergymen plotting murder and mayhem.)

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 10:00pm

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"… The liberation of the Armenians in Anatolia would lead to the establishment of an autonomous Armenia separated from Turkish suzerainty and that this Armenia could be made possible with the protection of Russia..." Source: Czar Nicholas, to the Catholicos of Echmiadzin, who was received by the Russian emperor at Tiflis. Tchalkouchian, Gr., Le Livre Rouge, Paris, 1919 ( This heinous collusion would spell a terrible human tragedy back then, but no one seemed to have cared – including the Frenchman, Levy, hundred years later.)

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 10:04pm

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"… The Armenians greeted the Russians with ringing bells and with their priests dressed in their ceremonial robes. In this war, too, the Armenian people took their place beside the Russians... The war broke out and volunteers came from everywhere, from Armenia in Eastern Anatolia, from Egypt under Turkish rule, from the non-Russian areas of Rumania; all these people who were Ottoman subjects, familiar with Anatolia, gathered together and put themselves at the service of the Russian Empire...” Source: Tchalkouchian, in a May 24, 1916 speech addressed to the Armenian Congress in St. Petersburg [The Armenians in History and the Armenian Question; Esat Uras; Documentary Publications, Istanbul (1988); p.854.] (Genocide, huh? Shame on you, Levy.)

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 10:06pm

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"…Armenians do not have the right to live in Erzurum..." Source: First order of the Russian General Commandment during the Russian occupation of Erzurum in 1916. B.A. Boryan, Armeniya Mejdunarodnaya Diplomatiya; SSSR. Cast 11, Moskva, 1929, p. 356. What a shock to backstabbing ingrates, those Armenianswho took up arms against their own government, killed their own Muslim neighbors, joined emphatically the invading Russian armies, only to be told: “No Armenians allowed!” Was it worth it Armenians? Was it worth destroying a millennium of peaceful Turkish-Armenian co-habitation? Russians did not want you. France could not care about you. Britain is not interested people without a seaport. Turks were your family; brothers and sisters for a thousand years. What did you do? Backstab them… Classy… Real classy…

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 10:12pm

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"...The solution to grant independence to the Armenians would not be suitable since the Armenians living in Armenia never had formed the majority, whereas they only formed one fourth of the existing population until now. Under these conditions, the granting of Armenian independence would cause unjustness like the administering of a majority by a minority, and the best feasible solution would be the equal administering of various ethnic groups through the rearrangement of the region taken from Turkey so that these groups never fall into a conflict; they should be granted freedom regarding educational and religious rights along with the free use of their language, thus causing the people to respect the Government and the clearance of all kinds of internal and external incitements and bringing the necessary vital conditions for the local people once present during the Turkish administration...." Source: Sazonar, the Russian Minister of Foreign Affairs, in his project letter to Prince Nicolai Nicolayevich, the Caucasian General Governor, June 27, 1916; Razdel Aziatskoy Turtsii Po Sekretnim Dokumentom Bivshego Ministerstva Inostrannih Del. Sostovitel: E.A. Adamov, Moskva, 1924. Document No: CXL., p. 207-210. From "Armenian Claims and Realities," Dr. Hüsamettin Yildirim, Ankara, 2001. Here was the Russian intent. Armenian did not see it coming.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 10:15pm

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"…The Armenians of Turkey no longer think of separating from the Ottoman Empire. Their problems no longer are even the concern of relations between the Armenian Republic and the Ottomans. Relations between the Ottoman Empire and the Armenian Republic are excellent, and they must remain that way in the future. All Armenian political parties feel the same way. Continuation of this good neighborly spirit is one of the principal points of the program recently announced by the Armenian Government, of which I am Foreign Minister..." Source: Hadisian, Foreign Minister of the Armenian Republic, upon the signing of the Batum Treaty on June 4, 1918 with the Ottoman Government. (Only seven days after the Armenian Republic in Erivan was established.) This treaty was described as involving the Armenians' full disavowal of all claims on the territory or people of the Ottoman Empire including its Armenians and the lands claimed by Armenian nationalists; Feigl, Erich, A Myth of Terror, 1986, pg. 85

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 10:16pm

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"…Russia's policy of hostility toward Turkey emboldened the Armenians of the Caucasus; that is why the Caucasus Armenians were involved in clashes between two friendly races. Thank goodness that this situation did not last too long. Following the Russian Revolution, the Armenians of the Caucasus understood that their security could be achieved only by having good relations with Turkey, and they stretched out their hands to Turkey. Turkey also wanted to forget the events of the past, and grasped the out-stretched hand in friendship. We agree that the Armenian Question has been resolved and left to history. The mutual feelings of suspicion and enmity created by foreign agents have been eliminated…" Source: Hairenik (Horizon), the Dashnak organ, on June 28, 1918; Kara Schemsi, Turcs et Armeniens devant l'Histoire, Geneve, Imprimerie Nationale, 1919, p. 31-32. (Those Dashnaks, and their buddy Levy, sure have a short memory!)

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 10:18pm

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"…The Turks and Armenians lived in peace side by side for centuries; that the Turks suffered as much as the Armenians at the time of the deportations; that only 20 % of the Turkish villagers who went to war would be able to return to their homes; that at the start of World War I and before the Armenians never had anything approaching a majority of the population in the territories called Armenia; they would not have a majority even if all the deported Armenians were returned; and the claims that returning Armenians would be in danger were not justified..." Source: General James G. Harbord, in a report to Congress after touring through Anatolia during September and October; Kara Schemsi, Turcs et Armeniens devant l'Histoire, Geneve, Imprimerie Nationale, 1919, p. 31-32. Another excerpt: "...in the territory untouched by war from which Armenians were deported the ruined villages are undoubtedly due to Turkish deviltry, but where Armenians advanced and retired with the Russians their retaliatory cruelties unquestionably rivaled the Turks in their inhumanity."

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 10:20pm

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"…The Turks had no deliberate policy of genocide at any stage, only the removal of Armenians from the front line with Russia, where they were collaborating with the Ottoman Empire's enemies and were thus a threat to its security..." Source: P. F. Peters, Former Australian Ambassador to Turkey, The Australian, June 9th, 1994

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 10:20pm

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"...(W)e, the Armenians, do not need facts to comprehend that there was a genocide against the Armenian nation..." Source: John Kossakian, Editorial Director of the Armenian Newspaper Asbarez; in a May 04, 2001 letter, exchanging views with the Turkish site, ermenisorunu.gen.tr. All the proof that's necessary is the hearsay of Armenian oral history, the kind that can't be backed up... as Mr. Kossakian goes on to demonstrate.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 10:21pm

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"…Majesty, I would like to ask you not to allow the location of Armenians in the central Russian regions. Because they are such filthy and shameless clans, they would soon shout throughout the world and claim those lands as their 'ancient motherland'..." Source: Aleksandr Sergeyevich Griboyedov, Russian diplomat and playwright who organized the transmigration of Armenians from Iran, as Russian minister to Iran in the early 19th century; in a letter to the Czar. As a result, Armenians were located not in Central Russia, but in the Caucasus... thereby also craftily sowing discontent between the peoples of the Caucasus, who had maintained strong relations since ancient times. ( I would not be surprised at all if I hear tomorrow that Armenians claim Glendale and Fresno as theirs and then add Lyon and Marseilles to their claims the next day. I would like to see Levy’s face then… )

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 16, 2009 at 10:24pm

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Out of curiosity , does anyone know if the Grey Wolves and their various manifestations and political aliases are listed as terrorist organizations by the United States Congress ?I know they are listed as terrorists in Germany . This Ergun fellow is like a Turkish version of Aryan Nations or the Ku Klux Klan ... sad that he lives in America and I can tell his allegiance is not to the United States.I hope he is listed with the Justice Department as a foreign agent .

- pn2009

January 17, 2009 at 12:18am

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Dear Pinar, I think if every side on this issue, Turks and Armenians, approached this important matter as calmly and respectfully as you do we would have solved many problems a long time ago. I appreciate your input and agree with you that most Turks do not believe in the idea of their ancestors could be murderers. However this is a wrong approach in looking at history. Why would a Turk today think that his/her ancestors would be considered as murderers, the Armenian genocide was not the fault of individual Turks or the fault of the collective Turkish nation, the Armenian genocide guilt squarely rests on the shoulders of the leadership of the Ottoman Empire. It is a false and simplistic argument that some Turks regard this as a judgement on the Turkish nation. Nations do not commit murders, governments or dictators do. This is the reason, as an Armenian and the son of Genocide survivors, I do not understand how Prime Minister Erdogan can stand on the podium and declare that he does not accept nor agree with the latest online campaign friendly gesture of apology by Turkish intellectuals. Not satisfied with that declaration, Mr. Erdogan continues by saying the there is no need for an apology because no crime was committed, thus attempting to absolve the criminal actions of the thugs who were at the head of CUP, Committee of Union and Progress party. This is the kind of narrow minded nationalistic and demagogic leadership Turkey continues to provide to its nation which simply poisons the environment and stifles any meaningful discussion in an open and free debate.

- Zareh

January 17, 2009 at 12:44am

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“…I was being employed by His Majesty’s Government to compile all available documents on the present treatment of the Armenians by the Turkish Government in a 'Blue Book,' which was duly published and distributed as war-propaganda!...” Source: Arnold Joseph Toynbee, "The Western Question in Greece and Turkey: a Study in the Contact of Civilizations," Boston, Houghton Mifflin, 1922, p. 50. Please note that the writer himself is saying the Blue Book was propaganda. Yet, the Armenians today are still using that book as the basis for their bogus genocide claims… claims based on war-propaganda.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 17, 2009 at 5:29pm

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"...There is a systematic plan of destruction of Turkish villages and extinction of the Moslem population. This plan is being carried out by Greek and Armenian bands, which appear to operate under Greek instructions and sometimes even with the assistance of detachments of regular troops…" Source: Arnold Toynbee, "The Western Question in Greece and Turkey," p. 284; quoting the commission of the allies for the incidents of Yalova and Gemlik. This was the "reformed" Toynbee, in his later years.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 17, 2009 at 5:30pm

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“…The Ottoman institution came perhaps as near as anything in real life could to realizing the ideal of Plato’s Republic...” Source: Arnold Toynbee, suddenly pro-Turk British historian.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 17, 2009 at 5:31pm

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"...The economic situation was so dismal that not only many Armenians, but thousands of Turkish soldiers as well died of the lack of food supplies, disease, and other consequences of poor organization in the Turkish government. In my division alone, after the battle of Gallipoli, thousands died of malnutrition..." Source: General Liman von Sanders, as witness for the defense, in the trial of Tehlirian, assassin of Talat Pasha. At such a time of economic hardships, destitution, and foreign invasion, Ottoman-Armenians chose to take up arms against their own government and joined the invaders. Turks were only defending their home with the Tereset (temporary resettlement of the untrustworthy Armenian groups.) What did Armenians expect for their raids, rebellions and treason? Flowers?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 17, 2009 at 5:35pm

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"...The domestic situation was deplorable: all over Turkey thousands of the populace were daily dying of starvation; practically all able-bodied men had been taken into the army, so that only a few were left to till the fields; the criminal requisitions had almost destroyed all business; the treasury was in a more exhausted state than normally, for the closing of the Dardanelles and the blockading of the Mediterranean ports had stopped all imports and customs dues..." Source: Henry Morgenthau, U.S. Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire; from his ghostwritten book, Ambassador Morgenthau's Story. Thousands dying daily? Gee. If true, do you suppose at least a few of the Armenian casualties could have resulted from the very same conditions all Ottoman citizens were suffering from?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 17, 2009 at 5:37pm

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The racist Kirlikovali proves why Levy is wrong. The antidote to his nonsense is speech, not prohibition. As the descendent of Turks, Jews and Algerians, I deplore this shame on the Honor of the good people of Turkey, this messenger of the mindless insult, he jokes at deaths and hardship he never endured.

- a la Turka

January 19, 2009 at 11:01am

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Charlie has not lived in Turkey as a Jew, as my family has and does. There is much cultural oppression, much fear. The insult "yehudi korkak" is in everyday usage. It means " cowardly jew". Also, durng WWII, many Turkish Jews were denaturalized, even as new immigrants were accepted. In 1955, government sanctioned riots against Greeks and Jews mirrored Kristallnacht. 1492 was a business opportunity.

- pierre

January 19, 2009 at 11:57am

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In the face of so much cynicism, it is heartening to see Mr. Levy's tireless efforts to bring a voice to the voiceless, whether it be about Bosnia or the Armenian genocide.

- Gary Mikis

January 19, 2009 at 10:59pm

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I agree with Ryn that genocide denial laws are undesirable. But I strenuously disagree that Kirlikovali is merely a "stray aggravating fellow". If you google his name, and read his posts here - no easy task - you see that he is a gleeful racist. You also see -and this is key- that he is at the very heart of the Turkish-American establishment, which promotes and and ratifies his fascist and racist views. He is an honored columnist on turkla.com, turkish forum and turkish digest. His writings attack Armenians of 1915 and today with words like 'backstabber', 'traitor' 'terrorist'and 'murderer' - all the things Nazis said of Jews. He discounts that more than 8,000 Armenians died in 1915-1923 from murder, which he attributes to other Armenians. Two years ago, he published an article saying Dink was likely killed by Armenians. He is a leader of national Turkish-American organizations. He hobnobs with highly placed American representatives and the US Ambassador to Turkey. Just as we defend freedom of speech for racists and idiots, we must also attack the idiocy and racism, if there is to be an answer to it.

- jda

January 20, 2009 at 10:58am

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Are the readers aware of the following excerpts: During World War II, while the Turkish government was giving asylum to many Jews fleeing from Hitler’s tyranny, anti-Semitism engulfed the Armenian circles in the Nazi-occupied territories. ‘Jews being the most fanatical nationalists and race-worshippers…are compelled to create an atmosphere..of internationalism and world citizenship in order to preserve their race…As the British use battleships to occupy lands..Jews use intenationalism or communism as a weapon…Sometimes it is difficult to eradicate these poisonous elements when they have struck deep root like a chronic disease. And when it becomes necessary for a people to eradicate them…these attempts are regarded revolutionary. During a surgical operation, the flow of blood is a natural thing..Under such conditions, dictatorships seem to have a role of saviours. (Quoted by James G Mandalian: Who are the Dashnags, Boston, Hairenik Press, 1944, pp.13,14) *In May 1935, the Armenians of Bucharest attacked the Jews of that city, while the Greeks of Salonika attacked the Jews in August 1935. (Türkkaya Ataöv: Hitler and the ‘Armenian Question’, Ankara, 1984, pp.91) *During WWII, Armenian volunteers, under the wings of Hitler’s Germany, were used in rounding up Jews and other ‘undesirables’ destined for the Nazi concentration camps (same reference) *The Armenians published a German-language magazine, with fascist and anti-Semitic tendencies, supporting Nazi doctrines directed to the extermination of ‘inferior races’ (same reference). *A report in The Times, (19.7.1941,p.5) claimed that the Nazis had picked on the Dashnaktsutiun to do fifth-column work, promising the party an autonomous state for its cooperation. *Christopher J Walker one of the champions of the Armenians, stated that **relations between the Nazis and Dashnakists living in the occupied areas were close and active, **On December 30, 1941 an Armenian battalion was created by a decision of the Army Command (Wehrmacht), known as the ‘Armenian 812th Battalion’. It was commanded by Dro, a former Armenian guerrilla leader, and was made up of a small number of committed recruits, and a larger number of Armenians from the prisoners of war, taken by the Nazis in their sweep eastwards. Early on, the total number of recruits was 8000; this number later grew to 20000. The 812th Battalion was operational in the Crimea and North Caucasus. **On December 15, 1942, an ‘Armenian National Council’ was granted official recognition by Alfred Rosenberg, the German Minister of the occupied areas. From that date until the end of 1944, it published a weekly journal Armenian and broadcast on Radio Berlin. (The whole idea was to prove to the Germans that the Armenians were ‘Aryans’, in order to save their skins). It comprised Prof Ardashes Abeghian president; Abraham Gulhandanian, vice president; Harootiun Baghdasarian, secretary; members outside Germany Der Tovmassian, Vahan Papazian, David Davidkhanian, Garegin Nejdeh, and a master of international intrigue known as General DRO GANAYAN (Dro The Butcher’ Ganayan). (Walker Christopher J. Armenia:the survival of a nation. London, 1980). Some excerpts from the document signed between Nazi Germany and the European Dashnak Council which was made public on February 15, 1943: • 1.The Armenian National Council was organized in Berlinunder the patronage of the Ministry of the Eastern Occupied Areas on December 15th 1942. Thus, the Armenian National Council undertakes to become an agent between Germany and the Armenians. • 3. In order to carry out these objectives and programs freely, to achieve and to establish them firmly, the Armenian National Council considers the political protection of the German Reich over Armenia the most secure guarantee.. • 7. The Armenian National Council is convinced that the efforts of its people should be crowned with success because Armenia, through the powerful help of the German Reich, will become a self-governing country and such, will be built up… • 8. The Armenian National Council will do everything to facilitate the work of its patron government, including the national wealth of the land, taking into consideration the economic reconstruction of Armenia and the interest of the two peoples… • 11. Realizing the historic, political, economic and cultural intimate ties between Great Germany and her protectorate, Armenia, the Armenian National Council will consider it its high duty to strengthen these mentioned ties and tor ender them unbreakable. For this purpose are already called, and hereafter will be called, those auxiliary Armenian forces, which are now active and fighting with the Germans for final victory and liberation. • 12. The Armenian National Council is an agent in the present period of transition. Its jurisdiction and activity cease the moment when, under the leadership of Germany and the help of the Armenian National Council, a new government is created in Armenia. *Armenian Lalaian stated ‘All groups were under the protection of the enemies of peace. Hitler was using the Armenians (Dashnaks) as German troublemakers; they served Japanese militants and got arms from them. Polish officers and others used them as well (A.A.Lalayan’s Editorial. Kaynak Yayinlari, pg. 52) • A news in The New York Times of July 24, 1941: ‘By Ray Brock-Armenians in Iran inflamed by Nazis’ German agents operating in Tehran are attempting to foment disorders and inflame the Armenian population to sabotage and revolt against the present Iranian government, promising money now and territory laterfor ‘Greater Armenia’ after the war, according to disclosures by high diplomatic sources here today. Armenian irredentists are receiving promises of an independent Armenia composed of Azerbaijan and bits of former Armenia in Iran. Germans who provide the funds fort he propaganda and for Armenian terrorists…Creation of disorders and frontier incidents, such as the one that occurred. A paradoxical reality was that while Dashnakist Armenians who had volunteered in the Nazi Army, were sending the Jews to death, the Turkish diplomats in countries under occupation were risking their own lives to save Jewish race humans, by giving them Turkish I.D. papers. An outstanding salvage operation was concluded in France under occupation and some 19 000 Jews were saved and sent with special trains to Turkey Turkish consulates in other cities like Marseilles, Rhodes, Constanza, Varna and others were kept open and were active in similar salvations of Jews by Turkey (see Washington Post June 17, 1943).

- aksy

January 20, 2009 at 11:17am

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Q:Why do I read quotes defaming Armenians as Nazis from Mr Kirlikovali and his minions here, e.g. post 199? A: This is calculated to worry and offend Jewish readers. Even as the Turkish state is quite anti-semitic, it is also terrified that Israel and American Jewish groups such as AIPAC will be less supportive of Turkey with regards to the issues of Cyprus and recognition of the Armenian Genocide. The fear is palpable, now that Erdogan questioned whether Israel belongs in the UN after the Gaza invasion. The Turkish state is also nervous about long-standing contacts Israel has with Kurds. So, there is a tireless effort to portray Armenians as Nazis in blogoland. These unreadable block quotes all appear to come from equally unreadable websites parroting the official Ankara line, and defaming Armenians every day in the exact language Rosenberg and Goebbels used (murderers, terrorists, treacherous, bacstabbers). More than 400,000 Soviet Armenians died fighting fascism in WWII. 25,000 Armenian Americans fought in the US forces, with one winning the CMH, and four Navy Crosses being awarded. For their part, the Turks denaturalized several hundred Turkish Jews during the war, had their own fascist and Nazi movements, and joined a non aggression pact with Hitler four days before the invasion of the Soviet Union, joining the allies only when victory was imminent. Armenians did fight with and in the German Army: 20,000 were recruited from German POW camps, as were far larger numbers of every ethnic group in the Soviet Union - including Buryats, Mongolians and Central Asian Turks as well. Other Armenians did align with Hitler, as did Quisling Norwegians, Dutch, Romanians, Moslem Palestinians, the Grand Mufti, Kosovars, Croats, Azeris, Chechens, and Bosnians.

- jda

January 20, 2009 at 6:04pm

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Nazi-Armenian 812th Battalion: "...Nevertheless there remains the incontestable fact that relations between the Nazis and Daschnaks living in occupied areas were close and active. On 30 December 1941 an Armenian batallion was created by a decision of the Wehrmacht, known as the Armenian 812th Battalion. It was commanded by Dro, and was made up of a small number of committed recruits, and a larger number of Armenians from the prisoners of war taken by the Nazis in their sweep eastwards. Early on the total number was 8000; this number later grew to 20,000. The 812 th Batallion was operational in the Crimea and the North Caucasus. A year later, on 15 December 1942, an Armenian National Council was granted official recognition by Alfred Rosenberg, the German minister of the occupied areas. The Council president was Professor Ardasher Abeghian, its vice-president Abraham Guilkhandanian and it numbered among its members Nzhdeh and Vahan Papazian. From that date until thje end of 1944 it published a weekly journal, Armenian, edited by Viken Shantn (the son of Levon) who also broadcast on Radio Berlin... What was the motive for the collaboration in the occupied areas ? It is possible to see it as a purely vengeful desire to retake Armenia from the Bolsheviks..... There is in the untutored mind a tendency to class Armenians and Jews together (offensive to both peoples); and the malevolent paranoia of the Nazis might have manifested itself against Armenians as well as Jews. Hence it was important to prove to the Nazis that the Armenians were Aryans. With the aid of Dr. Paul Rohrbach they seem to have achieved this. The Nazis did not persecute Armenians, just for being Armenians, in the occupied lands..." Christopher J. Walker's "Armenia —The Survival of a Nation," page 357, para 2. C.J. Walker is one of the most ardent supporters of the alleged Armenian genocide and look, even he is confessing the heinous Armenian Nazi crimes. If one cannot trust Walker, who can one, on the Nazi-Armenians? To think that Armenian compare their WWI experience to WWII Jewish experience must be the cruelest joke of the century. Perpetrators claiming their victim’s suffering? What’s next?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 21, 2009 at 5:44pm

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One person who compared the sufferings of Armenians and Jews was Raphael Lemkin, the jurist and scholar who coined the term "genocide" based upon the experiences of both groups, and who authored the text of the 1948 Convention. While the outcomes were similar - both peoples suffered state-sponsored mass murder - nobody today says these murders were done in the same way. Another who saw parallels was Hitler: in explaining the invasion of Poland he planned in 1939 to his General Staff, Hitler, explained that they should show no mercy to anyone, and that the world would bow down to success, even successful barbarism. Hitler's remark was transcribed by a participant who caused them to be delivered to Ameican journalist Robert Lochner, who delivered them to the US and British Berlin embassies. The speech was subsequently published in 1942 in the NY Times. The Turkish side claims this remark by Hitler ("Who today remembers, after all, the annihalation of the Armenians") was never uttered, chiefly because the version of his remarks attested to by another participant did not contain this remark, and because the person who delivered the speech to Lochner was not identified. However, Hitler made essentially the same remark in 1931 to another journalist named Breiting, and it was recorded then as well.

- jda

January 22, 2009 at 12:04pm

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There is more than enough Nazi mud to go around: In WWII, the Germans made a focused effort to get Turkey to join the Axis, or at least to provide more help than it gave - and it did openly trade with the Reich, and provide raw materials such as chromium, as did neutral Sweden. The Germans negotiated with the Turks about allowing them to have suzereinty over the Middle East, and sugggested that the Crimean and Caucasian Turks would be joined to a greater Turanic whole. The Gerrmans also encouraged Caucasian Turks to massacre Russians and Armenians in situ. Hitler also repatriated the remains of Talat to Turkey in 1942 as part of this effort to win the Turks over to the Axis side. The historians who have studied this appear to agree that the Turks pulled out of negotiations only after the Soviets destroyed the German Army at Stalingrad. The idea that Turkey was pro-allies or anti-Nazi is nonsense: she was waiting to see who would win before taking a stand.

- jda

January 22, 2009 at 3:26pm

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looks like the earliest posts are being deleted

- jda

January 22, 2009 at 5:14pm

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"Surely a few Armenians aided and abetted our enemy, and a few Armenian Deputies committed crimes against the Turkish nation... it is incumbent upon a government to pursue the guilty ones. Unfortunately, our wartime leaders, imbued with a spirit of brigandage, carried out the law of deportation in a manner that could surpass the proclivities of the most bloodthirsty bandits. They decided to exterminate the Armenians, and they did exterminate them. " Mustafa Arif, Ottoman Minister of Interior after Mehmed Talat Pasha (13 December 1918) "These left-overs from the former Young Turk Party, who should have been made to account for the millions of our Christian subjects who were ruthlessly driven en masse from their homes and massacred, have been restive under the Republican rule." Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, in an interview published in The Los Angeles Examiner (1 August 1926)

- jda

January 23, 2009 at 4:42pm

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One series of quotes Mr. Kirlikovali never posts are admissions by Kemal Ataturk that the Young Turks intentionally massacred and destroyed the Armenians. In addition to the August 1,1926 interview published by the LA Times of Ataturk, paragraph 9, here are a few more. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk: In a communication to General Kazim Karabekir, on May 6 1920 about attacking the fledgling Armenian Republic, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk (founder of the Turkish Republic) said: · “The Christian world, especially America will turn against us, associating such an attack the possibility of ‘a new Armenian massacre’”[i] Kazim Karabekir, Istiklal Harbimiz [Our war of Independence], 1969. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk: On September 22 1919, from Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, to Major-General Harbord, the head of the American Military Mission to Armenia: · “Kemal used the 800,000 figure to describe the number of Armenian victims. He, in fact, ‘disapproved of the Armenian massacres.’ (Ermeni kitlini o da takbih ediyordu).”[ii] “Rauf Orbayin Hatiralari” Yakin Tarhimiz [Memoires of Rauf Orbay; Our Contemporary History], 1962. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk: On April 24 1920, the day after the inauguration of the new parliament of the Turkish Republic, Ataturk stated: · “The World War I massacres against the Armenians (Ermenilere karsi kitliam) [was] a shameful act (fazahat).”[iii] “Ataturkün Söylev ve Demerçleri 1918-1938” (The Speeches and Statements of Atatürk) vol.1, 1945. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk: In an interview with a French publicist he (Mustafa Kemal Ataturk) inveighed against the Ittihadist chiefs, whom he blamed for the crime against the Armenians: · “They, [the Ittihadist] and their accomplices…deserve the gallows. Why are the Allies delaying having all these rascals hung?”[iv] (Maurice Prax, “Constantinople: Lectures pour tous,” 1920). Mustafa Kemal Ataturk: · “The massacre and deportation of Armenians was the work of a small committee who had seized the power.”[v] “Rauf Orbayin Hatiralari” Yakin Tarhimiz [Memoires of Rauf Orbay; Our Contemporary History], 1962. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk: In an interview (Los Angeles Examiner, August 1, 1926) with Swiss journalist, Emile Hildebrand, Ataturk said: · “These leftovers from the former Young Turk Party, who should have been accountable for the lives of millions of our Christian subjects who were ruthlessly driven en masse from their homes and massacred, have been restive under the republican rule.”[vi] Turkish Court Martial: To judge Talaat and the other criminals who participated in organizing the genocide of 1915, a Turkish Court Martial was formed on March 8, 1919. The following is an abridged version of the accusation against them: · “…the essential point which emerges from the open inquiry is that the crimes committed during the deportations of the Armenians in different locations and at different times were not isolated and local cases. A central force, organized by and composed of persons mentioned here, premeditated and executed them, through secret orders or verbal instructions. The court declares unanimously the guilt of the charges mentioned earlier of the accused hereby named, members of the General Council which represent the moral person of the Ittihad. According to the disposition of the law, the Court declares the penalty of death against Talaat, Enver, Djemal and Dr. Nazim, and forced labor for 15 years against Djavid, Moustafa Cherif and Moussa Kiazim.”[vii] The Great Free-Mason Loge of Turkey: The Great Free-Mason Loge of Turkey voted the following motion: · “The venerable Assembly reached the conclusion that during the last war, brothers Talaat Pasha, Midhat Chukri, Hussein Dhajid, Behaeddine Chekir, forced compatriots to leave their homes, had them assassinated, and stole their goods, and for these reasons they are expelled from the Masonic ranks.” c2. The Turkish Journal Yeni Stamboul [viii] General Vehib Pasha (Bukat): Commander of the Turkish Third Army · “The massacre and destruction of the Armenians and the plunder and pillage of their goods were the result of decisions reached by Ittihad’s Central Committee…The atrocities were carried out under a program that was determined upon and involved a definite case of premeditation.”[ix] Records of the 1919 Turkish Military Tribunal Mustafa Arif (Deymer): Interior Minister 1918-19 · “Unfortunately, our wartime leaders, imbued with a spirit of brigandage, carried out the law of deportation in a manner that could surpass the proclivities of the most bloodthirsty bandits. They decided to exterminate the Armenians and they did exterminate them. This decision was taken by the Central Committee of the Young Turks and was implemented by the Government…The atrocities committed against the Armenians reduced our country to a gigantic slaughterhouse.”[x] (VAKIT, 13 Dec. 1918) Halide Edib: American Educated Feminist Writer · “…Indeed, we tried to destroy the Armenians through methods peculiar to the Middle Ages. We are living today the saddest and darkest times of our national life.”[xi] (VAKIT, 22 Oct. 1918) “Turks and their history books still cannot accept that there was an organized mass murder of Armenians between 1915 and 1917. Perhaps that is because so many of the murderers and looters were also heroes of the founding of the modern Turkish republic. “The founder of modern Turkey, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, spoke on the subject dozens of times; he condemned the massacres, which he called infamous, and demanded that those who were guilty be punished.”[xii] Falih Rifik Atay, a close friend and confidant of Ataturk, a former Ittihadist, and Kemalist publicist: · When discussing the persecution of World War I Armenian massacres, he too saw fit to characterize them as “genocide,” using exactly this composite Greco Latin term, at the same time lamenting the fact that there were: “…alternative remedies [to the Armenian problem]; why incur the risk of dishonoring the name of the nation? Mustafa Kemal too was against the genocide.”[xiii] Halil Berktay: Professor of History at the University of Sabanci in Istanbul · “I believe that things will change. For decades we have been putting Turkish Opinion to sleep with the same lullabies. Meanwhile there are a ton of documents providing the sad reality…I even cried upon discovering certain clichés. In Turkey, our youth grow up sheltered. Later in life when some go abroad to study, they discover the reality. For me, the discovery at Yale University was very traumatizing. We caused the death of at least 600 000 people in ten months. If we are not racists, we should be feeling the profoundness of such horror.”[xiv] (L’Express, 09-11-2000, The Armenian Question: Resolving a taboo.) Login or register to post comments Print

- jda

January 26, 2009 at 2:09pm

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Ergun, Did Ataturk admit repeatedly that the Young Turk government massacred Christian subjects? a) Yes, you got me copper b) no c) you are insulting Turkishness, Turks, Turkish empire, Turkish taffy, Turkish towels,Turkish baths, she-wolves, Turkish victims of bad Swedish cooking, Ergenekon, [pause for reverent bow to Empire founded by two really smart dogs], Turkish coffee, Turkeys, Tom Turkeys, Tom-Toms, Native "New World Turks" Americans, Turkish Rugs [anything I left out?] d) now what do I do?

- jda

January 27, 2009 at 11:09am

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Ergun, I suggest prayer to your favorite deity: Dear Spirit of Ataurk, The enemies surround me, just as the Greeks, French and British surrounded you. I hold aloft the sacred Goat-head, emblem of our sacred Ergenekon racial beginnings, and implore you for help. And could you send it overnnight/urgent on fedex before the 5:30 pm drop-off, please? The Armenians just won't go away, they must have secret Turkish endurance genes. The Greeks, Kurds, Israelis, Hzbullah, Lebanese, and Assyrians are pissed at us. And now the Alewis and left-wingers and Professors are acting up. Don't get me started on the AK party, I'll be damned if Ms. Turkey wears a headscarf. Yesterday some friggin' Turkish actor admitted killing 10 Greeks on Cyprus while he served in the glorious Army. The week before some dingbat in Anatolia gave his farm to the Assyrian Church, saying he realized it had been stolen during the Assyrian Genocide, Christ, everybody has a Genocide they say was our fault. Who's next? Navajos? I forgot, they are Turks, we're safe there. And I don't have to tell you about the apology petition, plus its two years since Dink got it. Oof, we said we condemned it, why are they saying its our fault? Send us a new PR firm, oh great one. Maybe Oprah is available. Soon, the US congress which the Glendale Armenians control will defame our ancestors, by saying bad things about our Glorious CUP leaders. By the way, after you kicked the bucket, Hitler was nice enough to send us back Talat's remains, but we've got them in what looks like the world's biggest marble wind tunnel. I understand you and he were not the best of friends. Still, can I get some love on this, maybe turn Talat's final resting place into an upscale downtown destination avec le Starbucks? I pray, oh glorious leader, that I may have the strength to keep copying and pasting in our heroic struggle to confuse and mislead. In the meantime, I'm hoping for April 25 to roll around, think I'll be in Cabo the week before. Any Armo's in Mexico? Your faithful stooge, Goon

- jda-2

January 27, 2009 at 11:12am

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Ergun, here's another one for you to use in emergency conditons, each time you worry that the sacred Turkish something or other is at risk: Prayer number 2 Dear Ataturk, And, oh great one, disasterous news on the genetics front... You'll remember how Ergenekon story says that a band of 600 suspiciously Nordic looking ur-Turk dudes headed off from some Central Asian shangri-la, to colonize Pontus and Armenia, oops, I mean Turkey. Instead of a AAA guide book, they got their directions from two really scary looking wolf-dogs. Well, even though me and my friends and associates all agree that we look just like friggin' Genghiz Khan down to the droopy 'staches [named my Cockapoo after Genghiz, gotta represent to my homies], I read this turd in the genetic punchbowl: "DNA results suggests the lack of strong genetic relationship between the Mongols and the Turks despite the close relationship of their languages and shared historical neighborhood. Anatolians do not significantly differ from other Mediterraneans, indicating that while the ancient Asian Turks carried out an invasion with cultural significance, it is not genetically detectable." WTF, dude, are they saying we're just Turkified and Islamized Armenians, Greeks, Arabs and Assyrians? That is totally unacceptable, dude. I am a brave Turk, no way can i be of these other groups. Just ask Turkes, he knows what time it is. I know, I know, he was a Nazi, but maybe he can help us here. racial-purity-wise. Please send me enlightenment, or order the bad scientists all dead. Or make them admit the Armenians bribed them. Thanks again, goon.

- jda-3

January 27, 2009 at 11:17am

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Is someone at TNR replacing the already posted Turkish messages with new Armenian ones? What is going on at TNR, please?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

January 29, 2009 at 10:45pm

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Newer messages replace older without content discrimination. Conspiracy solved, Ergun?

- jda

January 30, 2009 at 3:41pm

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Ergun, I think the audience is down to you, me, the moderator and some Yap Islanders looking to improve their knowledge of primitive rhetoric. It took the conspiracy-minded Turkish media 36 minutes to publicize that the Davos moderator, Mr. Ignatius, is of Armenian heritage. Some even falsely reported that he was part Jewish. Now I understand your fear that TNR plucked out your writings from this blog. You assume they run their press the way you would run yours. Sorry pal, this is America. We let opposing views go on and on. And on. And on some more. Maybe the next generation of American born Kirlikovalis will understand. You surely don't.

- jda

January 30, 2009 at 5:23pm

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Armenians came to this country several generations ago and made it their raison d'etre to demonize and defame Turks. This is one of the reasons why Armenian terrorism reared its ugly head, again, in America. Note that no diaspora Armenian has ever denounced Armenian terrorism. Some even support it overtly. At a time when the U.S. is fighting a global war on terrorism, such illegal support by Armenian-Americans for Armenian terrorism on American soil is cause for alarm. Armenian falsifiers will have to understand sooner or later that one's defending his home in the face of invasion, rebellions, and treason cannot be considered a genocide. Tereset of 1915(temporary resettlement) is nothing compared to Nagasaki and Hiroshima of 1945. Yet, one talks about self defense and although the intent to exterminate was a matter of record, no one blames the U.S. with genocide, in the latter case. Bias, bigotry, and selective morality, are not too difficult to see. Turkish views have never been told until a a couple of decades ago and have been censored since. Yet another example of bias in the media. Consensus is not supposed to be a license to silence dissent. Your editorial freedom is not supposed to trump my freedom of speech.

- KIRLIKOVALI

February 4, 2009 at 2:07am

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Mr.Kirlikvali, Your latest post is perhaps the most idiotic, if not racist, of them all. The only person with a monomaniacal fixation is you. Your subliterate, ahistoric race baiiting shows that Armenians are uppermost in your thoughts. Not the other way around.

- jda

February 4, 2009 at 2:59pm

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I have a few moments to kill, so let me kill off Ergun's latest [aborted] flight of fancy. 1. Actually, plenty of Armenian Americans condemned ASALA then and now, including the California Governor George Deukmejian. I note with sadness that you have yet to denounce the Turks who killed Hrant Dink, choosing instead on January 19, 2007 in the pages of Turkish Digest to say Dink was killed by "anti-Turks", your code for "Armenian". You daily maintain the racist atmosphere of hate and racism which demonizes Armenians, Greeks, Kurds, Greek Cypriots and Assyrians. You are a racist, pure and simple. 2. What evidence do you have of Armenian terrorism in America today? 3. Contrary to your robo-parrotting, alleged acts of rebellion do not justify or diminish Genocide. Even your favoriet academic, Guenter Lewy, states at page 122 of his 2005 boook on the Genocide that [your] "civil war" thesis is a "travesty of history". He also praises Turkish historian Derengel, who wrote that the Armenians suffered :colossal crimes" in Anatolia and elsewhere. 4. Your claim that the Turkish governments and their loyalists have been quiet until recently is demonstrably false. Turkish government efforts to tell Americans what they can and cannot say about the Genocide go back to at least 1933 when Ambassador Ertegun warned the State Department that all hell would break loose if the Forty Days of Musa Dagh was made into a movie by MGM. It wasn't. The Turkish government always threatens a communal tantrum if anyone, or any government, even utters the words "Armenian Genocide". 5. You have posted thousands of hateful, racist posts throughout the blogosphere, and over 100 here. Do you seriously contend you, a bandwith hog, are censored?

- JDA

February 4, 2009 at 6:59pm

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A Kurd explains the pervasive racism in Turkey today: "The Turkish state was established on a racist foundation both ideologically and with respect to its educational system. The implementation of this groundwork was begun by the states founder Mustafa Kemal (Atatürk). Many of Atatürk's speeches and texts are racist in nature, including his motto "Happy is the man who can say: I am a Turk!" This motto is still inscribed above all school entrances in Turkey, especially in Kurdistan, and is even written in enormous letters on the hillsides. Another frequently quoted saying of Atatürk's is: "One Turk is worth as much as the whole rest of the world!" Atatürk's famous "Legacy to Youth" begins: "O Turkish youth" and ends with the sentence: "The omnipotence that you need exists in the noble blood that flows in your veins!" The superiority of the Turkish race and the nobility of Turkish blood are frequently mentioned in Turkish literature and everyday discourse. For example, members of the left, the political opposition, etc. who advocate opinions different from the so-called "national" policy are often called "bloodless ones" or "people of degenerate blood". For decades, pupils in all primary schools in the country have had to swear an oath, in chorus, every morning before their lessons begin. This oath begins: "I am a Turk, decent and industrious" and ends with the sentence, "My life is dedicated to Turkishness!" In the primary and secondary schools, the schoolbooks are full of sentences and poems that are racist in nature. Poems of this kind are performed on radio and television as part of all national ceremonies. One of them begins: "I am a Turk, my religion and my race are sublime!" Racist characteristics can be seen even in the Turkish national anthem, which speaks of "my victorious (heroic) race". With unbelievable exaggeration, Turkish racism declares that the Turks are a superior race, while at the same time denigrating other peoples and representing them as enemies. When the Kurdish rebellion of Ararat was defeated in 1930, the Minister of Justice at that time, Mahmut Esat Bozkurt, said at a public rally concerning the rebellion: "This is a war between two races, and it is neither the first nor the last one." He continued: "We live in the freest land in the world, that is, in Turkey. The Turk is the sole ruler and owner of this country. Those who are not members of the pure Turkish race have merely the right to live as servants and slaves. Let this fact be known by both our friends and our enemies, even by the very mountains!" (quoted from the daily newspaper Milliyet, September 19, 1930) The Prime Minister at the time, who was later to be Atatürk's successor and second President of Turkey, Ismet Inönü, said in a speech he gave to inaugurate a railroad line in Sivas province, referring to the Kurdish rebellion: "In this country, only the Turkish nation, and nobody else, has the right to claim ethnic and racial rights." (Milliyet, August 31, 1930) Many more examples of this kind could be cited. "Scientific" investigations of the Turkish race were carried out on the personal orders of Mustafa Kemal. During the Third Reich, in which the National Socialists wielded power, instruments for measuring the human skull were brought in from Germany. Following directives from above, men who had received the title of Professor in short order were kept busy inventing a series of fictions concerning the typical characteristics of Turks, such as the color of the eyes, the shape of the skull, blood group, etc. In their turn, "scholars" of Turkish history and the Turkish language formulated, in accordance with Atatürk's specific directives, quaint theses about "the Turkish theory of history" and "the theory of a Sun Language". According to these theories, all peoples originated from the Turks and all languages originated from Turkish. These empty and hare-brained theses were defended for decades in Turkish historiography and cultural research. "

- jda

February 5, 2009 at 5:56pm

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The daily disinformation from Monsieur Kirlikovali: Mr Kirlikovali recently posted a series of articles on Turkish sites applauding Jack Lang, French former Culture Minister and Member of the National Assembly, who changed his mind about a bill he once sponsored criminalizing denial of the Armenian Genocide. [For my part, I disagree with all such laws criminalizing political speech, in France or Turkey.] According to Kirlikovali, Lang also [1]received "threats and intimidation" by Armenians, and [2] Lang now denied the Armenian Genocide ever took place. While Lang received harsh criticism from constituents both Armenian and otherwise, he received no threats or intimidation. More importantly, Lang in the last 48 hours re-affirmed his commitment to work for Turkish recognition of the Armenian Genocide, which was never in doubt in his mind. The question is: why do Turkish American sites promote Kirlikovali's propaganda and easily demonstrated lies? Whom do they think is being persuaded?

- jda

February 6, 2009 at 2:00pm

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FROM ZAMAN TODAY'S EDITION, BYLINE COLUMNIST NICOLE POPE RE RACISM IN TURKISH EDUCATION: President Abdullah Gül, on his visit to Saudi Arabia, denounced Islamophobia and the belief, more widespread in the West since Sept. 11, that there is a direct link between Islam and terrorism. His remarks coincided with the first anniversary of the tragic Ludwigshafen arson attack in Germany, in which nine members of a Turkish family died. In Turkey too, racism and anti-Semitism have been much discussed in recent weeks. Keeping prejudice at bay requires constant vigilance in any society, particularly in periods of political upheaval or economic downturn. The best weapon against intolerance remains education, which can create solid foundations for a tolerant society, respectful of diversity. But to achieve this result the curriculum has to be carefully balanced. Promoting the right values is particularly important during the crucial formative years when children are in primary school. So how successful is Turkey's education system in promoting democratic values of tolerance and respect for diversity? Not very, according to a recent report on human rights in school books published jointly by Turkey's History Foundation and the Turkish Human Rights Foundation (TIHV). Researchers spent 18 months scanning primary and secondary school manuals, as well as interviewing pupils and teachers to find out how well human rights principles were promoted in class. The report compares results with a similar screening that took place in 2002-2004, before school curricula were amended. While some progress was recorded in the intervening period, only 11 of the 139 school books examined, a mere 8 percent, are deemed adequate. The content of all the other manuals is found to contain mistakes or deliberate distortions, while some sensitive issues are simply overlooked. School books, the report suggests, neither adequately foster a democratic culture nor support secularism. Critical thinking is a dimension sorely lacking, the study finds. This fact had also been noted by the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) in its Youth Report last year. An excessive emphasis in school books on "national values," shown to be specific to Turks, is promoting an "us" and "them" mentality, and implying that other cultures are inferior. Manuals also reinforce traditional gender roles, which become internalized at a young age, through their use of language and the examples of social roles they supply, the report states. Non-Muslim minorities and ethnic minorities in Anatolia barely figure in school books or are mentioned in terms suggesting they are not an intrinsic and valuable part of the social fabric of this country. As we have witnessed in recent months, the notion that non-Muslim minorities are merely "guests" or even undesirable aliens can even find its way into politicians' statements. This belief, taken to its extreme, can be linked to the murder of Hrant Dink, of Christian missionaries in Malatya and of a Catholic priest in Trabzon, and therefore needs to be nipped in the bud when children are still young. The book used to teach religious culture and ethics was found to be particularly contentious. The researchers complain that religious education focuses on Sunni Islam to the exclusion of other faiths. "Moral values" are depicted as being linked to religion, thus overlooking philosophical and humanistic dimensions, while creationism is taught as a science in biology classes. Among numerous suggestions, the report advocates "de-militarizing" the school curriculum and scrapping national security classes. Recommending closer cooperation between authorities and civil society to promote respect for diversity and dialogue, the researchers advise the government to introduce peace education classes, to teach a culture of debate and conflict resolution techniques. In a society prone to polarization, this would be a good first step to prevent social tension in the future. 06 February 2009, Friday NICOLE POPE

- jda

February 6, 2009 at 2:41pm

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RACISM OVERTLY PRACTICED BY THE ARMENIANS 1/7 : If you stumbled upon this blog, you will realize how racist some Armenians are and how they cannot answer even the most basic questions regarding their genocide claims, because they know these questions refute their baseless allegations. They will, instead, fill this column with racist filth, insults, slander, threats, and more falsification. Also, they will take any opportunity to derail this debate by turning it into a shouting match. So, I suggest we keep our cool and go back to our educational process of discussing facts. Let’s leave Armenian propaganda to the AFATH community. Let’s continue with the gradual dismantling of the 90+ years of bogus genocide, shall we? Here are more of those questions and quotes you may wish to remind the next person who screams genocide in your face, unaware or in denial of massive Armenian hate crimes that led to their TERESET. To be continued… Ergun Kirlikovali, Son of Turkish Survivors from both Paternal and Maternal Sides, www.turkla.com ; Legend: AAG = The alleged Armenian genocide; AFATH = Armenian Falsifiers and Turk Haters; WWI = The First World War; Tereset = Temporary Resettlement; Ethocide = antonym of genocide; extermination of ethics via pre-meditated and malicious mass deception for political, economic, social, and/or moral benefits. [Keywords (or tags) for google searches: Ethocide, Tereset, Armenian Falsifications, Armenian Terrorism, Armenian Treason, Armenian Misrepresentations, Armenian Rebellions, j, jd, jda, manukyan, pierre, hasan, burcu, el mexicano, Charles Webster, Gary, Hijinks, Mr. Beemer, Pasadena Resident, Avo, California Resident, Bob, Raffi, the rat in Ararat, pinocchian ]

- Ergun Kirlikovali

February 6, 2009 at 3:09pm

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RACISM OVERTLY PRACTICED BY THE ARMENIANS 2/7 : Armenian genocide allegations are based on a racist and dishonest history. Racist because it selectively focuses on one side's suffering, ignoring the other's. And dishonest because it dismisses Armenian terrorism, raids, rebellions, treason, territorial demands, and Turkish losses because of these, all of which culminated in the TERESET (temporary resettlement) of 1915. Ignoring half the story in order to justify the political judgment of genocide is cruel, incorrect, unethical, un-American, and inhuman. Ignoring half the story is also ethocidal (Ethocide: systematic extermination of ethics via pe-meditated and malicious mass deception for political, personal, or other gain.) To be continued… Ergun Kirlikovali, Son of Turkish Survivors from both Paternal and Maternal Sides, www.turkla.com ; Legend: AAG = The alleged Armenian genocide; AFATH = Armenian Falsifiers and Turk Haters; WWI = The First World War; Tereset = Temporary Resettlement; Ethocide = antonym of genocide; extermination of ethics via pre-meditated and malicious mass deception for political, economic, social, and/or moral benefits [Keywords (or tags) for google searches: Ethocide, Tereset, Armenian Falsifications, Armenian Terrorism, Armenian Treason, Armenian Misrepresentations, Armenian Rebellions, j, jd, jda, manukyan, pierre, hasan, burcu, el mexicano, Charles Webster, Gary, Hijinks, Mr. Beemer, Pasadena Resident, Avo, California Resident, Bob, Raffi, the rat in Ararat, pinocchian ]

- Ergun Kirlikovali

February 6, 2009 at 3:10pm

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RACISM OVERTLY PRACTICED BY THE ARMENIANS 3/7 : My "refutation series" continues … Today, I will present to you the views of some Armenian leaders and writers, which you will no doubt find gravely offensive, virulent, and blatantly racist. Please note that these quotations are not from ordinary Armenians, therefore, cannot be readily dismissed as hapless repartee by some ignorant or extremist Armenians. The bigoted Armenian leaders who wrote these horrible comments were unfortunately the same ones who influenced, formulated, manipulated, and/or dictated Armenian policies before, during, and after the WWI. You can now understand what the Ottoman government was really up against: a bunch of vicious, racist, treasonous, back stabbers who did not hesitate to kill unprotected women and children of Turkish villages -- as all the able bodied Turkish men were sent to many distant fronts to defend the country against the invaders. Over half a million Muslims, mostly Turks, ruthlessly met their tragic end during the WWI at the hands of these Armenian nationalists. To be continued… Ergun Kirlikovali, Son of Turkish Survivors from both Paternal and Maternal Sides, www.turkla.com ; Legend: AAG = The alleged Armenian genocide; AFATH = Armenian Falsifiers and Turk Haters; WWI = The First World War; Tereset = Temporary Resettlement; Ethocide = antonym of genocide; extermination of ethics via pre-meditated and malicious mass deception for political, economic, social, and/or moral benefits [Keywords (or tags) for google searches: Ethocide, Tereset, Armenian Falsifications, Armenian Terrorism, Armenian Treason, Armenian Misrepresentations, Armenian Rebellions, j, jd, jda, manukyan, pierre, hasan, burcu, el mexicano, Charles Webster, Gary, Hijinks, Mr. Beemer, Pasadena Resident, Avo, California Resident, Bob, Raffi, the rat in Ararat, pinocchian ]

- Ergun Kirlikovali

February 6, 2009 at 3:11pm

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RACISM OVERTLY PRACTICED BY THE ARMENIANS 4/7 : Today, we witness the same kind of arrogant and racist attitude in the writings of many Armenian leaders, their extensions in the media, and their recent innovations and tools, the genocide scholars. To these biased writers, the bona fide cases of genocide around the world do not seem to exist; only the bogus genocide claims of the Armenians do. They only pay a brief lip service to the genocides in Cambodia, Bosnia, and Rwanda, and devote the rest of their writings to the Armenian-Turkish civil war which they unfairly, incorrectly, but deliberately misrepresent as genocide. To these people, Armenian armed uprisings and treason are not important. Who fired the first shot is inconsequential. The facts that the Armenians had standing armies of 150,000 men and that they were belligerents -- and described as such by the wartime Armenian leaders (Boghos Noubar, Katchaznouni, etc.) -- are to be ignored. Also to be dismissed are the rights of the Turks to defend themselves and their country in face of foreign invasion supported by some disloyal citizens. Well, what's left to consider? How else can anyone explain the tragic ending of the millennium of harmonious Turkish-Armenian cohabitation in Anatolia? If Armenians didn't rise up in arms, didn't side with the invading Russians, didn't massacre Turks, didn't undermine the Ottoman war effort; they would still be in Anatolia today, like they have been for a millennium before 1915… It is that plain and simple… To be continued… Ergun Kirlikovali, Son of Turkish Survivors from both Paternal and Maternal Sides, www.turkla.com ; Legend: AAG = The alleged Armenian genocide; AFATH = Armenian Falsifiers and Turk Haters; WWI = The First World War; Tereset = Temporary Resettlement; Ethocide = antonym of genocide; extermination of ethics via pre-meditated and malicious mass deception for political, economic, social, and/or moral benefits. [Keywords (or tags) for google searches: Ethocide, Tereset, Armenian Falsifications, Armenian Terrorism, Armenian Treason, Armenian Misrepresentations, Armenian Rebellions, j, jd, jda, manukyan, pierre, hasan, burcu, el mexicano, Charles Webster, Gary, Hijinks, Mr. Beemer, Pasadena Resident, Avo, California Resident, Bob, Raffi, the rat in Ararat, pinocchian ]

- Ergun Kirlikovali

February 6, 2009 at 3:12pm

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RACISM OVERTLY PRACTICED BY THE ARMENIANS 5/7: As the prominent historian, Justin McCarthy once said, any civil war, including the American civil war, can be made to look like a genocide if one ignores the other side. Think about it; wouldn't it look like genocide if , say, the Northerners only listed the atrocities and killings of the South, totally excluding those committed by the North? The reverse is also true, of course. That is exactly the point. Armenians always dismiss their own terrorism, armed uprisings, atrocities, betrayals, and treason; misrepresent wartime measures taken by Turks in self defense; exaggerate Armenian suffering and losses; and totally ignore the Turkish suffering and losses four times larger than the Armenians'. And then they wonder, why are the Turks "denying" the AAG? While we wonder, in turn, how long can this ethocidal campaign continue to depict the vicious terrorist nationalists and murderers in the Ottoman-Armenian community as "poor, starving Armenians"? How can "poor, starving Armenians" raise a standing army of 150,000 men, slaughtering defenseless Turkish women and children in Eastern Anatolia and elsewhere? To be continued… Ergun Kirlikovali, Son of Turkish Survivors from both Paternal and Maternal Sides, www.turkla.com ; Legend: AAG = The alleged Armenian genocide; AFATH = Armenian Falsifiers and Turk Haters; WWI = The First World War; Tereset = Temporary Resettlement; Ethocide = antonym of genocide; extermination of ethics via pre-meditated and malicious mass deception for political, economic, social, and/or moral benefits . [Keywords (or tags) for google searches: Ethocide, Tereset, Armenian Falsifications, Armenian Terrorism, Armenian Treason, Armenian Misrepresentations, Armenian Rebellions, j, jd, jda, manukyan, pierre, hasan, burcu, el mexicano, Charles Webster, Gary, Hijinks, Mr. Beemer, Pasadena Resident, Avo, California Resident, Bob, Raffi, the rat in Ararat, pinocchian ]

- Ergun Kirlikovali

February 6, 2009 at 3:13pm

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RACISM OVERTLY PRACTICED BY THE ARMENIANS 6/7: “…They (The Turks) have assimilated the blood of slaves from east and west, north and south. Originally Mongolian, they are now partly Negroid, Semitic, and in lesser degree Aryan.... It would be interesting to have a competent ethnologic and genetic study made of the effect of polygamy and of such unparalleled miscegenation upon the vitality of the people...the Turk today is, according to unanimous testimony, inferior in mental equipment and sustained energy to the native Christians and Jews.” Source: Cardashian, Vahan, ”The Turks”; An Address delivered before The American Academy of Political and Social Science, in The Lausanne Treaty - Turkey and Armenia., The American Committee Opposed to the Lausanne Treaty, New York (1926), p 106. To be continued… Ergun Kirlikovali, Son of Turkish Survivors from both Paternal and Maternal Sides, www.turkla.com ; Legend: AAG = The alleged Armenian genocide; AFATH = Armenian Falsifiers and Turk Haters; WWI = The First World War; Tereset = Temporary Resettlement; Ethocide = antonym of genocide; extermination of ethics via pre-meditated and malicious mass deception for political, economic, social, and/or moral benefits. [Keywords (or tags) for google searches: Ethocide, Tereset, Armenian Falsifications, Armenian Terrorism, Armenian Treason, Armenian Misrepresentations, Armenian Rebellions, j, jd, jda, manukyan, pierre, hasan, burcu, el mexicano, Charles Webster, Gary, Hijinks, Mr. Beemer, Pasadena Resident, Avo, California Resident, Bob, Raffi, the rat in Ararat, pinocchian ]

- Ergun Kirlikovali

February 6, 2009 at 3:13pm

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RACISM OVERTLY PRACTICED BY THE ARMENIANS 7/7 : "…All Turkish children also should be killed as they form a danger to the Armenian nation…" Source: Hamparsum Boyaciyan, a former Ottoman parliamentarian who led Armenian nationalist forces. And then there is this: "…In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul..." Source: Sahak Melkonian, Preserving the Armenian Purity, 1920. And then this: “… We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination…." Source: Ohanus Appressian, describing incidents in 1919; Memoirs of an Armenian officer, Men Are Like That,1926. And this: “…The Turks of Turkey are basically of the most primitive and backward branch of the Mongolian race.... Of this blending of the primitive, the savage, the stupidly brutal and atavistic products is composed the Turk of today. The retention by him of his primordial traits is explained by the Mendelian Law,...” Source: Cardashian, Vahan,”The Turks”; An Address delivered before The American Academy of Political and Social Science, in The Lausanne Treaty - Turkey and Armenia., The American Committee Opposed to the Lausanne Treaty, New York (1926), p 106. To be continued… Ergun Kirlikovali, Son of Turkish Survivors from both Paternal and Maternal Sides, www.turkla.com ; Legend: AAG = The alleged Armenian genocide; AFATH = Armenian Falsifiers and Turk Haters; WWI = The First World War; Tereset = Temporary Resettlement; Ethocide = antonym of genocide; extermination of ethics via pre-meditated and malicious mass deception for political, economic, social, and/or moral benefits. [Keywords (or tags) for google searches: Ethocide, Tereset, Armenian Falsifications, Armenian Terrorism, Armenian Treason, Armenian Misrepresentations, Armenian Rebellions, j, jd, jda, manukyan, pierre, hasan, burcu, el mexicano, Charles Webster, Gary, Hijinks, Mr. Beemer, Pasadena Resident, Avo, California Resident, Bob, Raffi, the rat in Ararat, pinocchian ]

- Ergun Kirlikovali

February 6, 2009 at 3:14pm

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How many Muslims, mostly Turks, did Armenian kill during WWI? Were Armenian clergymen involved in the Armenian raids, rebellions, treason, territorial demands, terrorism, which caused more the Turkish casulaties mentioned above which in turn resulted in the TERESET (temporary resettlement) of the Armenians? How can wartime home security measure be misrepresented as genocide? Since when one's defending his home in the face of foreign invasion and domestic treason cuopled with raids,rebellions, and terrorism is considered a genocide?

- Ergun Kirlikovali

February 7, 2009 at 7:05pm

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In my artcile "Discover the rat in ararat", I made it plenty clear that one's defending of his home in the face of intrusion, invasion, rebellions, treason, terrorism, territorial demands, and organized pogroms, cannot be considered genocide. If it were, the U.S. would be blamed for a genocide in Nagasaki & Hiroshima.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

February 8, 2009 at 6:35pm

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In his book, which Kirlikovali has praised in print, Guenter Lewy says the civil war theory Kirlikovali advances here is a 'travesty of history" which no historian with a conscience can assert. Lewy states that because unarmed Armenians were killed under guard of state actors, and not as combatants, these deaths have nothing to do with mutual combat.

- jda

February 11, 2009 at 10:58am

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In my artcile "Discover the rat in ararat", I also made it the following points (2/7): Dr. Gwynne Dyer put it best in 1976: “… The deafening drumbeat of the propaganda, and the sheer lack of sophistication in argument which comes from preaching decade after decade to a convinced and emotionally committed audience, are the major handicaps of Armenian historiography of the diaspora today…” The Armenians have defined the Turkish-Armenian conflict one way, their way, for 93 years. Even this could be understood within the context of ethnic and/or religious fanaticism. After all, it is a free country, you can believe whatever you want, even that the world is flat. Problem arises when the Armenians demand their claims be declared as settled history with zero tolerance for the other side of the story, coming from Turks and non-Turks alike. The problem turns into a criminal conduct when these demands turn to violence, as in Armenian terrorism that claimed 70+ innocent lives (three right here in Southern California) since 1973, aimed at imposing the Armenian will on others. Whether the Armenian claims of genocide are recognized by this country or that, does not change the fact that Armenians engineered, provoked, and waged a civil war within a world war; took up arms against their own government; killed their Muslim/Turkish neighbors; joined the invading enemy armies; demanded territories where they were a minority to create Greater Armenia; and did all that with the help of active allies (Russia, Britain, France), passive allies (U.S. diplomats, Protestant missionaries, the New York Times) and others.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

February 11, 2009 at 8:46pm

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In my artcile "Discover the rat in ararat", I also made it the following points (3/7): THE 6 T'S OF THE TURKISH-ARMENIAN CONFLICT ARE: 1- Tumult (Armenians taking up arms against their own government,) 2- Terrorism (by Dashnaks, Hunchaks, and other Armenian terrorist organizations,) 3- Treason (Armenians joining the invading enemy armies) 4- Territorial demands (where Armenians were a minority) 5- Turkish suffering (at the hands of Armenian revolutionaries and terrorists; number exceeds half a million Muslims, mostly Turks) 6-Tereset (temporary resettlement triggered by the above 5 T's and misrepresented by Armenians as genocide.)

- Ergun Kirlikovali

February 11, 2009 at 8:47pm

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In my article "Discover the rat in ararat", I also made it the following points (4/7): Here is the eyewitness report refuting the Armenian claims and deception: “…For fourteen days, I followed the Euphrates; it is completely out of the question that I during this time would not have seen at least some of the Armenian corpses, that according to Mrs. Stjernstedt’s statements, should have drifted along the river en masse at that time. A travel companion of mine, Dr. Schacht, was also travelling along the river. He also had nothing to tell when we later met in Baghdad… …In summary, I think that Mrs. Stjernstedt, somewhat uncritically, has accepted the hair-raising stories from more or less biased sources, which formed the basis for her lecture…” Source: H.J. Pravitz, A Swedish officer, Nya Dagligt Allehanda, 23 April, 1917 issue (A Swedish Newspaper published from 1859 to 1944)…This is the right side of history... This is where Armenian deception is exposed...

- Ergun Kirlikovali

February 11, 2009 at 8:47pm

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In my article "Discover the rat in ararat", I also made it the following points (5/7): Here are the bogus Armenian press reports from WWI that were refuted by a rare missionary whose heart was in the right place: "…In some towns containing ten Armenian houses and thirty Turkish houses, it was reported that 40,000 people were killed, about 10,000 women were taken to the harem, and thousands of children left destitute; and the city university destroyed, and the bishop killed. It is a well- known fact that even in the last war the native Christians, despite the Turkish cautions, armed themselves and fought on the side of the Allies. In these conflicts, they were not idle, but they were well supplied with artillery, machine guns and inflicted heavy losses on their enemies…." Source: Lamsa, George M., a missionary well known for his research on Christianity, The Secret of the Near East, The Ideal Press, Philadelphia 1923, p 133…This is the right side of history... This is where Armenian deception is exposed...

- Ergun Kirlikovali

February 11, 2009 at 8:47pm

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In my article "Discover the rat in ararat", I also made it the following points (6/7): “...Few Americans who mourn, and justly, the miseries of the Armenians, are aware that till the rise of nationalistic ambitions, beginning with the 'seventies, the Armenians were the favored portion of the population of Turkey, or that in the Great War, they traitorously turned Turkish cities over to the Russian invader; that they boasted of having raised an Army of one hundred and fifty thousand men to fight a civil war, and that they burned at least a hundred Turkish villages and exterminated their population...” Source: John Dewey, The New Republic, 12 November 1928. This is the right side of history. This is where Armenian deception is exposed...

- Ergun Kirlikovali

February 11, 2009 at 8:48pm

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In my article "Discover the rat in ararat", I also made it the following points (7/7): “…In all the countries, under all the regimes, the staff of the armies in the field evacuate towards the back, the populations which live in the zone of fights and can bother the movement of the troops, especially if these populations are hostile. Public opinion does not find anything to criticize to these measures, obviously painful, but necessary. During the winter of 1939-1940, the radical - socialist French government evacuated and transported in the Southwest of France, notably in the Dordogne, the entire population of the Alsatian villages situated in the valley of the Rhine, to the east of the Maginot line. This German-speaking population, and even sometimes germanophil, bothered the French army. It stayed in the South, far from the evacuated homes and sometimes destroyed until 1945….And nobody, in France, cried out for inhumanity…” Source: Georges de Maleville, lawyer and a specialist on the Armenian question, La Tragédie Arménienne de 1915, (The Armenian tragedy of 1915), Editions F. Sorlot-F. Lanore, Paris, 1988, p 61-63. This is the right side of history... This is where Armenian deception is exposed...

- Ergun Kirlikovali

February 11, 2009 at 8:48pm

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K- If you keep posting, you can have all 200 spots on this blog. not that anyone is reading your posts. Query: why do you hate Armenians with such a Nazi like intensity?

- jda

February 12, 2009 at 12:33pm

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I don't dislike Armenians; I just hate liars...

- Ergun Kirlikovali

February 16, 2009 at 11:23am

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It is an unfortunate fact that Armenia is not interested in peace, but only expansion at the cost of its neighbors. Armenia currently occupies 20% of Azerbaijan, causing 1+ million internally displaced refugees at gun point. Why is this ignored? Becuase the victims or Turkic? Armenia forcibly occupies Karabagh. On Feb. 26 1992, the Armenian army committed a grave crime against innocent Azerbaijani civilians. It is one of the largest massacres of modern times in the region of South Caucasus and Caspian Basin.Why is this ignored? Becuase the victims or Muslim? Armenia covets lands from Turkey which the Armenian constitution still refers to as Western Armenia. That, according to the UN, is grounds for expulsion from the international community. Armenia wants to annex the Javakhketi region in the neighboring Georgia. Armenian wants Nakhcivan (Azerbaijan) and northwestern Iranian territories abutting Armenia. Armenia still supports internationa terrorism by Armenian fanatics who call themselves ASALA, JCAG, Ramgavar, etc. etc. On whom, then, does this tiny, land-locked, poverty-stricken, corrupt, aggressive, and violent Armenia rely to take on such powerful neighbors with Armenia's racist policies, aggression, and irredentist projects? Russia. Russia already owns pretty much everything in Armenia as we speak and has many military bases there. When you enter Armenia, for example, Russian border agents meet and greet you and check your papers. Armenian independence has long been an oxymoron. Is it safe to extrapolate, then, that what we are seeing as Armenian trouble-making is actually a post-Soviet / neo-Russian threat on peace and stability? When we all focus on the little puppet that is Armenia, we seem to miss the big picture: Russia. Genocide debate will never end because Russia benefits from it. The debate ends when Russia wants it, which is never. According to some scholars like Esat Uras, genocide claims, Armenian terrorism, Armenian aggression, Armenian treason, and anything else Armenian, are clvere Russian inventions. Perhaps one needs to shake off those self-serving superficial narratives for a minute to peek a look into the backdrop and see what's lurking behind the facade. Armenian apologists, lobbysist, activists, and others are just proxies... limited, powerless, visionless, and boringly repetitive.

- Ergun Kirlikovali

April 1, 2009 at 5:20pm

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Mr Kirlikovali writes that Turks condemned the Dink killer. Not quite. He's a hero to some, and celebrated in popular song. Moreover, Kirlikovali condemned the killer as an Armenian, not a Turk, in an article he wrote January 19, 2007.

- jda

July 2, 2009 at 4:43pm

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