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Go Home Taking out My Eraser

POLITICS MARCH 5, 2010

Taking out My Eraser

 

The Root has an interesting list of people they say black history could do without. It got me thinking about who I would include on a top-ten list of that kind.

I’m going to take a different tack than they did. My interest is not in people it’s just fun to dump on, but in people who have had a decisive impact on black lives and thought in general—and so no Dennis Rodman or Wesley Snipes. I am also thinking about true uniqueness, i.e. people whose essences and trajectories were idiosyncratic enough that if they hadn’t come along, chances are no equivalent person would have filled their shoes (so, no Dennis Rodman or Wesley Snipes!).

I find that a list like this, if it’s really about impact on black people, cannot even be limited to black people. Here goes.

1. Malcolm X

Yes, I understand that in Malcolm’s time, rage among black people was deeply rooted for fully understandable reasons. Yes, I know that near the end of his life he was preaching a more inclusive message. Still, the way he comes down to us in shorthand is as the one who taught black people to channel their inner Angry Motherfucker. Articulately so—the speeches still work. But the problem is what that does for us now.

There is a tacit sense that the kind of anger Malcolm became famous for, with the upheld fist and the menacing “By Any Means Necessary,” is portentous, the start of something. But in real life, what Starts Things now is not going to be black America rising up in anger. The community isn’t cohesive enough, and the problems today aren’t simple enough.

I don’t wish Malcolm X had never existed, but I wish he hadn’t become famous. He was quirky enough that it’s possible that no one with equivalent star power to his would have emerged otherwise, and the mood he represented, long on oomph and so short on result, would be represented by no iconic historical figure today. The Black Panthers were so over-the-top that we marvel at them rather than wanting to be them, and Spike Lee wouldn’t have made a movie about Stokely Carmichael. The Malcolm T-shirts and the sense of reading his autobiography as a smart black persons’ rite of passage are distractions from the actions, as opposed to the moods and gestures, that really help black people.

2 and 3. Frances Fox Piven and Richard Cloward

Piven and Cloward were white social work professors at Columbia who, in the late '60s, openly encouraged as many people as possible to take welfare payments open-endedly, hoping that this would bankrupt the government and force a complete overhaul of our distribution of income. It wasn’t that they thought there was no work for blacks—just that it was beneath blacks’ dignity to do it. By 1968, the organization was staging more than two hundred protests a month, sometimes assisted by the Panthers.

Traditional civil rights leaders didn’t get it. Piven has recalled, “We met with Whitney Young [executive director of the National Urban League] … and he gave us a long speech about how it was more important to get one black woman into a job as an airline stewardess than it was to get fifty poor black families onto welfare.” But when Piven and Cloward published a manifesto in The Nation, there were 30,000 reprint requests. One thousand neighborhood service centers nationwide encouraged people to go on welfare who would not have otherwise. In the '60s, one-third of the people whose incomes made them eligible for AFDC were on the rolls. By 1971, 90 percent were.

For three decades, welfare was an open-ended program, unconcerned with whether people got jobs or whether children’s fathers were present or able to work. The government never fell, and meanwhile black neighborhoods started falling to pieces. The near-fatherless tracts now thought of as normal would have sounded like science fiction in even the poorest black districts before the '70s. Rarely in American history have people with such a destructive agenda had such power over the lives of the innocent. I wish Piven and Cloward had stayed obscure teachers instead of helping to ruin the lives of, for example, some of my relatives.

4. Price Cobbs

Cobbs, a black psychiatrist, meant well, but he created a monster. In 1968, his book Black Rage, written with William Grier, was a hit, teaching that blacks were simmering with fury and paranoia and were, just as James Baldwin had couched it more literarily in The Fire Next Time, about to boil over. In the wake of that paradigm, Cobb pioneered “encounter groups” designed to teach white people about their inner racism. How? By having blacks vent at them, the idea being that this was “therapeutic.”

From a rare transcription of an actual session around 1970:

Woman: I don’t relate towards you, towards color or anything else, I relate towards every single person here as an individual.

Cobbs: You’re lying, you’re lying, you’re lying!

Woman: Why?

Cobbs: If I would say “you look like a little boy to me, I just don’t see anything” you’d say I was crazy because you’re a woman. ... If I could neutralize you in some way this is exactly what white folks do to black folks.

The constructiveness of things like this is decidedly unclear, and yet Cobbs did over 100 of these sessions, ideally culminating in screaming matches out of Norman Lear sitcoms of the period. Buoyed by the success of the book—I recall it as a common coffee table sight when I was a tot—they set a mood. People elsewhere started doing similar “ethnotherapy.” The idea got “into the air” that whites are always racist in ways they are not aware of, must be informed of this, and that it’s okay if the black people bearing the news are less than civil because it’s just desserts (and “therapeutic” for all concerned). The paradigm lives on today in diversity seminars, psychology and ed-school curricula, and the whole idea that there is a uniquely complex Race Thing that whites can never completely “get.”

I wish Cobbs and Grier had written something else. (And they did—a follow-up about black religion; needless to say, that one didn’t get around as much.)

5. Al Jolson

Because we moderns are so fascinated with cultural appropriation and hybridization, blackface exerts a deathless fascination—too much, really. University library bookshelves groan under the weight of fragile explorations of how Jewish performers like Jolson were supposedly trying on a different rendition of “otherness” in solidarity with blacks, etc. The problem is that the energy that goes into this blackface fetish could otherwise produce more work on actual black stage performance before the late '20s (Bert Williams gets attention, but he intrigues in large part because he corked up).

I designate Jolson as a culprit because he wore blackface longer than almost anyone, and as a result, happened to be caught doing it by the new invention of sound film—which brings it so alive for us today (Eddie Cantor has less renown). Plus there was the happenstance that he happened to be the star of the first all-talking film, The Jazz Singer, which keeps the legend alive even more.

If all we had were mute photos of blackface, the whole phenomenon would be harder to connect with viscerally, and more people interested in performance history from a racial angle would wend into the careers of actual black performers like George W. Johnson and Charley Case. Who? I know—that’s just it. Or, instead of one more “exploration” of blackface, what about a full-length, years-in-the-making biography of Ethel Waters?

6. Paulo Freire

Paulo Freire would be surprised to see himself described as bad for black history, and justifiably so—he was a Brazilian educator who was concerned with the pitilessly rigid class structure of the Latin American countries he knew best. Yet his 1970 Pedagogy of the Oppressed has distracted quite a few from teaching poor kids facts or, often, much of anything.

Far from Brazil, 40 years on, and without the guidance of an acolyte, it reads like a peculiar piece of Marxist rhetoric, designating students as teachers and calling for them to "critically recognize" the oppressor "as a force 'outside' themselves" in order to be "more fully human." Anyone who has been through, or near, a typical school of education is familiar with this language—but would not have been before Freire’s book. The philosophy’s oblique relationship to what schooling actually is recalls how, for medievals, learning to recite in Latin and Greek and engaging in disputes about religion was what constituted a proper education. Freire's work will look just as contingent in 100 years.

It’s one thing to think of leftism as a component of an education—although even that is open to question. The problem with Freire’s influence is that it has conditioned a sense that leftism should be the central pillar of education, with facts themselves distrusted as “dry” and “colonial” (a point Freire himself made), at best something to get to later or in passing. The uninitiated would be shocked at how deeply this notion pervades the way many teachers are “trained”—check with someone you know who’s getting an ed degree to get a sense of this. Example: an acquaintance has reported that two years of training at Columbia’s Teachers College included not a thing about actual classroom teaching technique and everything about shielding your students from a world of oppressors.

The idea is that this stuff is especially crucial when teaching poor and minority kids. Plus, white kids in private schools are less likely to be stuck with teachers who think this way, because private schools are less likely to require ed school certification. The adoption of Freire’s book by people caught up in a passing, quirky quest to unite their sixties politics with their classroom technique was a historical accident. Now set as a tradition, it has left countless innocent black kids (and others) undereducated at a crucial age. I wish it hadn’t happened. Specifically, black American history would be better off if Freire’s book had not been translated into English.

7. William Ryan

The mere title of Ryan’s book, Blaming the Victim, imprinted a way of thinking about race which, like other catchy phrases such as “By Any Means Necessary” and “Black By Popular Demand,” is longer on heat than light. Ryan was a white sociologist and Civil Rights activist who was enraged by Daniel Moynihan’s The Negro Family report and penned a riposte which appeared in assorted venues under names like “Savage Discovery” (The Nation) and “The New Genteel Racism” (The Crisis), which he expanded into another book visible in thinking people’s living rooms in the early '70s.

For Ryan, Moynihan’s report seduced the reader into “believing it is not racism and discrimination but the weakness and defects of the Negro himself that account for inequality.” This was untrue of Moynihan’s report, which was scrupulously attendant to the effects of racism past and present. But even for people who didn’t read the book, the title alone inculcated the idea that societal factors are the only justifiable ones to explore (except in parentheses) when it comes to black problems, and that to refer to anything else is (drum roll, please) “Blaming The Victim.”

The smackdown usage of the phrase discourages addressing the simple fact that all cultures operate according to legacies as well as the GNP, and that all cultural traits are not positive. If the book hadn’t inculcated the phrase, the riposte would not be as tartly expressed and would not elicit the argument-stanching applause it tends to—and I’m not sure anyone would have come up with a phrase as perfect (it really is good, in itself). Ryan had worked with CORE—his heart was in the right place. But the title of that book was poison for getting at what real problems for real people are.

8. Ron Karenga

This one is a bee in just my bonnet. In 1966, Karenga created Kwanzaa—okay. But Kwanzaa, in line with the day’s fashion that Swahili was a “pan-African” language, is cast with Swahili terminology. This has been central to establishing and keeping alive the idea that black Americans get in touch with “their” heritage by learning Swahili. Hence black college dorms named things like Ujamaa, or an early '70s coloring book of mine on Christmas with each page translated into another nation’s language dutifully including Ethiopia with a Swahili translation—when the language of that country is Amharic, a relative of Arabic. Even the fashion of African-sounding names for black people starts with the Swahili fetish—the source of the prefix business, with the Sha’-s and De’-s and so on, is how words work in Swahili.

This is not what I would call a tragedy, but it’s slightly ridiculous, frankly. The ancestors of black Americans didn’t speak Swahili, spoken in various countries in East Africa—and Africa is home to a thousand languages. Black Americans speaking Swahili as a heritage language is like someone with red hair and freckles taking up Romanian because it’s “European.”

If black Americans have a heritage language in Africa it’s Mende of Sierra Leone—that’s the one that black Gullah speakers in South Carolina used to be able to recite some fragments of song in. Mende is even kind of easy as languages go. Clearly, though, Swahili is here to stay. Ideally, Karenga either would not have happened to create a holiday, it wouldn’t have caught on, or, if fate had to make him become famous, he would have cast the holiday in one of the many African languages black people’s ancestors actually spoke. Just saying.

9. Jonathan Kozol

Kozol’s Savage Inequalities has taught legions of people that the reason poor (usually brown-skinned) students don’t do well in school is because ghetto schools don’t get as much funding as others. The notion sits easily in the memory and travels quickly to the same part of the brain that finds Malcolm X attractive.

However, it simply isn’t true. Does funding matter? Of course, some. But not enough to justify Kozol’s rock star status among those concerned with poverty and education. Take New Jersey in 1998. Since then, no funding discrepancy has been allowed between gritty urban schools and ones in cushy suburbs. And the result has been essentially nothing. The urban schools were hopelessly unable to comply, for example, with the No Child Left Behind requirements. Money didn't make the teachers and administrators any better at their jobs. Examples continue—of schools that didn’t change with big influxes of money, of poor schools where better teachers on modest salaries make for better learning, of simple reading programs teaching poor kids to read.

Kozol has a way with an audience—in one New York Radio interview he lovingly mentions a teacher describing children as “leaky little people” and dismissed think tankers as “dreary.” He clearly cares about children, but not specifically about what really helps poor children learn, even in poor schools. For that reason black history could have done without him being famous.

10. Orenthal James Simpson

This is my one selection that overlaps with The Root’s list, but for different reasons. Throughout 1995, during the big trial, we all watched the prosecution present a blindingly clear case for murder. Footprints in blood from a rare pair of shoes Simpson denied wearing (though of course people dug up photos of him in them). A mysterious gash in his left hand, a mysterious trail of blood left of the footprints. Blood in the Bronco. When told that his wife had been murdered, Simpson never asked about his children. And on and on.

And yet there were all of the elaborate scenarios as to how blood could have been planted here or there, or insisting that Mark Fuhrman’s comfort with the N-word justified assuming that the LAPD had been out to “get” Simpson despite having coddled him for years. Sure, the LAPD had given the black community ample reason to resent them in decades past. But there was no graceful room for the vigilante justice argument when it came to a case as plain as Simpson’s.

Frankly, the fashion for treating him as a victim made black America look dumb. I loved Howard University students cheering at the exoneration of a murderer (despite his avowed position on his dating preferences reportedly being, “I don’t shovel coal”). No cute rhymes about fitting and acquitting would have held any sway over black juries if Joe Namath had been married to a black woman and killed her. Everyone would have understood the fact that, as Vincent Bugliosi reminded us in his masterful book on the case, Outrage, an argument is not like a chain in which one weak link renders it useless, but like a rope, in which a few loose fibers leave it intact.

Fifteen years later most black people are comfortable admitting that the chance that Simpson did not kill his wife is infinitesimal. But at the time, the pretense otherwise created a fake, acrid slog of a national discussion from academia on down to the early Internet. In one book, Harvard’s Orlando Patterson charitably parsed the whole thing as a kind of living epic, stirring up America’s mythologization of black men as sexual threats, fascinating us all with day-by-day drama from the courtroom, and pitting black America against white America against the background of resentments centuries old. For years I have sought to feel that way along with him, but it just doesn’t happen.

All of that brouhaha because of something as weird as a football player killing (okay, “probably”) his wife, leaving a kind of suicide note, sort of attempting to flee, and getting sprung by a smooth lawyer working a pliable jury in a town just past the Simi Valley verdict. Roll the tape again and it wouldn’t have happened—and I wish it hadn’t.

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64 comments

The only reason OJ was acquitted was that a bunch of black jurors had looked at, a couple of years earlier, a bunch of white jurors acquit a bunch of white cops caught on video hammering the living crap out of Rodney King, and they decided it was payback time.

- ironyroad

March 5, 2010 at 12:45am

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Your list is much more interesting than The Root's (Idi Amin, Robert Mugabe, Clarence Thomas . . . too easy). The Root got me thinking about my own heritage though, and what evil and disgraceful Jews there have been throughout history. My list so far: Lazar Kaganovich Bernie Madoff Avigdor Lieberman Jack Abramov Son of Sam Yusuf Dhu Nuwas Meyer Lansky (and company) Baruch Goldstein (and friends) Robert Fuld Roy Cohn Gene Shalit Oh man, the list goes on and on.

- WillPastor

March 5, 2010 at 3:11am

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The problem with Pastor's list as opposed to McWhorter's list is that the former seems to suggest that his own personal reputation is sullied by the people whose names he invokes by virtue of them being his co-religionists (hard to believe that a person named "Pastor" is Jewish but let's pretend that we take him at his word). McWhorter, on the other hand, is less concerned not with onus of guilt by association. He cares more about the perversion of liberation and self-determination ideas that these persons introduced into Black history. McWhorter is a free thinker. Unlike his critic who is a whiner. The question is of course, whether any in Pastor's list has ever had any major influence on Jewish thought and moral evolution. While Malcolm X and his like have made a definite mark on Black conscious ideology, the people on Pastor's list are mostly criminals of various degrees of magnitude. ____________ ironyroad: Your comment would seem to suggest a certain glee at "payback"idea. It's as if the black jurors couldn't transcend the injustice of the past in order to render justice at present. It boggles my mind. I always thought OJ's defense did a pretty good job in inserting enough doubt in the minds of the jurors so that they couldn't in good conscience convict, even if they believed the man to be guilty. If the reason is as you suggest, then Blacks are no better than the white Southerners who used to automatically convict a black man without even bothering to consider the evidence. What's worse is that your explanation seems to suggest that blacks have not learned much from their own history. So it's not about justice but about who is in the position to inflict injustice. Many years ago there was a case brought before Israel's high court of a little Brazilian girl who was adopted by an Israeli couple. It turned out that the child had been kidnapped and her mother, with the help of the BBC, filed a suit. It was a heart wrenching case since it was clear that the little girl would be much better off with her Israeli parents than with the mother (more or less a slut with six or seven other kids whom she neglected). The judges did not know how to judge this matter and eventually turned for instruction to an international law which was legislated after the Holocaust, when many Jewish parents had left their children with gentile families and those who survived returned after the war to claim them. The law was that adoption that took place as a result of a crime could not be valid and the children had to be returned to their natural parents. What I mean to say is that even people with horrendous injustice in their past can see past the egotistical need for "getting even". And I believe that the black jurors in OJ's trial could distinguish between OJ's victims and Rodney King's beaters. But they had little choice in the matter since the reasonable doubt was there.

- noga1

March 5, 2010 at 8:39am

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McWhorter's comments on Malcolm X resonate with me. As a white American who grew up in a segregated town in New Jersey, my reading of the Autobiography was an initiation into thinking about the experience and perspective of African Americans. I have always thought that his angry rhetoric was an appropriate and useful response to the situation in this country, but I agree with McWhorter that the same attitude of anger at white America is not so helpful today. Last night I attended a Black History Month program at an urban high school where my wife teaches -- the program included poetry recitations and musical performances by students, all with various takes on the Black History theme. One of the performers gave us a defiant and passionate poem that expressed her own sense of identity and purpose, and included several angry denunciations of white people as her evil oppressors (generating much applause and cheering from a significant part of the audience). It just seems so odd to be sitting there, listening to such open racial hostility. I get it that racism persists and that we are far from entering some kind of post-racial Nirvana, but such a tirade seemed cheap and stupid to me -- and so completely in conflict with the kind of thinking and behavior that is essential to the social progress we still need to pursue together. It is long past time that people of good faith engage in speech that reinforces what is good and expresses a sense of respect for the good faith of others. I still admire Malcolm X for his courage but his rhetoric doesn't need to be emulated today. The work that needs to be done today and in the future is work we need to do together. The white devil crap just isn't all that helpful. Neil

- purcellneil

March 5, 2010 at 10:08am

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No glee, Noga, scout's honor. But you may be right. All I can give you is my impressions as they were at the time.

- ironyroad

March 5, 2010 at 11:11am

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Oh yes -- I meant to say also that I think your distinction above between McWhorter's list and the Root list is a good one, and the other noteworthy thing is that McWhorter's list includes whites. So, in that spirit, if I may add non-Jews to WillPastor's list of Jews who have done damage, I'd throw in the regiment of lunatic fundamentalist-evangelical fans of Israel whose "support" is posited upon an apocalyptic eschatology in which all the Jews stop being Jews and convert en masse to Christianity.

- ironyroad

March 5, 2010 at 11:45am

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great list, but I disagree with Malcolm being on the list. For his time he was an absolute necessity. He was the Yin to MLK's Yang, or lets say they represented the two sides of a coin. They complemented each other. Without Malcolm, MLK would not have looked so reasonable and understanding to whites. Not being black I can at least imagine how Malcolm also gave voice to the anger blacks must have felt, after that anger was vented they then had MLK to turn to.

- blackton

March 5, 2010 at 12:12pm

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noga1, how is WillPastor a critic of McWhorter? I think we read different posts. Also, without revealing my true identity, I can attest that he is indeed Jewish, and you should apologize for insinuating otherwise.

- ClumsyMohel

March 5, 2010 at 12:28pm

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- candide

March 5, 2010 at 12:45pm

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The problem with including white people too is that there were enough pro-slavery and pro-segregation whites who were idiosyncratically powerful or influential that they should top your list. Without Wallace would Alabama have stayed segregated so long? What about Thurmond's power in the Senate, or General Lee's strategic ability that kept slavery alive (and Americans dying) for months longer than an incompetent general would have? These are interesting questions but they're different questions than the one you and (sort of) the Root are addressing. Perhaps the list should be defined as only including people who thought they were helping blacks?

- Simon Greenwood

March 5, 2010 at 12:46pm

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@blackton I also disagree with McWhorter about Malcolm X. But he wasn't simply a crackpot who served as the counterpoint to a reasonable and understanding MLK. They appealed to different segments of the black population. Malcolm appealed to a largely young urban male population, those who had few economic opportunities and bore the brunt of police actions. MLK's was more broad, and more centered in the less urban South. Malcolm's importance was in the story arc of his life. He wouldn't have come to the more inclusive message of his later life if not for his early, fiery days. Unfortunately, since his life was cut short so soon after the transition, his fiery rhetoric is what seems to have stuck in the cultural memory. Too bad, because that left only the Nation of Islam for the urban youth to look to, and they continue to preach hate. How different it could have been if he had lived!

- RobertC

March 5, 2010 at 1:45pm

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@candide Take your flame-bait elsewhere.

- RobertC

March 5, 2010 at 1:46pm

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I don't know if Pastor is Jewish but I agree with Noga that his list is ridiculous. No one on his list is thought of in the Jewish community as being a noteworthy person. My list of ten Jews (people take to be Jewish by others---and some who really are Jewish) that I would erase include: Leon Trotsky Rosa Luxemburg Noam Chomsky, Eric Hobsbawm Karl Marx Naomi Klein "Rabbi" Michael Lerner Aldo Finzi Avigdor Lieberman Michael Savage And some others. Note that right wing Jews for the most part did not have the horrific global influence of Marx or Trotsky.

- jdyer

March 5, 2010 at 1:48pm

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I agree with McWhorter on Malcolm X. btw: did he even write his "autobiography?" Black people in America have many people to be proud of without kowtowing to this gangster who was just another rabble rouser. I also think that Malcolm didn't help civil rights or the Black community. He made the likes of people like the "Reverend" Shapton possible. I also rate Booker T Washington alongside Martin Luther King (whom I met once) in that he has a positive message for the Black community (and not just the Black community) which is still relevant today.

- jdyer

March 5, 2010 at 1:56pm

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But that list is odd, JD, because it include so many people who didn't act as saviors of the Jewish people but rather as universal revolutionaries, writers, or whatever -- the opposite of McWhorter's criteria for inclusion. If Marx had encouraged Jews to take a particularly combative and ethnically hostile view of Gentiles as a way of escaping from real or perceived oppression, then he would fit the Malcolm X model. But, if anything, his philosophy went in the opposite direction.

- ironyroad

March 5, 2010 at 2:01pm

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I think Alex Haley who wrote "Roots" also ghostwrote the Malcolm X "Autobiography" (it wasn't disguised, IIRC). It was an odd collaboration, to say the least, as Haley held fairly moderate political opinions and had served for many years in the US Coast Guard.

- ironyroad

March 5, 2010 at 2:06pm

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I'd add Frantz Fanon, once all the rage in academia. A brilliant writer, in his way, and a haunted phenomenologist of black identity under colonial conditions, Fanon at bottom was drastically wrong about the bases of being human. He followed Sartre to drastic effect, presuming that authenticity can only be achieved by wiping out all traces of traditional, i.e., unrevolutionary, culture (hence of any native-African identity worth speaking of). It's the old zero-sum fever-dream of radical intellectuals that time and again leads directly to what Camus presciently called "moral nihilism" with its cult of violence and ultimate descent into terrorism and mass murder. In certain ways, today's jihadist movement caricatures Fanon's frenzied outlook, as when he envisioned revolutionary women carrying machine guns under their burqua-like garments on behalf of the Algerian resistance. Well, they do do that nowadays, only for quite different aims.

- Tan Cong Hoa

March 5, 2010 at 3:14pm

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Well, they did act as liberators of mankind and most did so and do as "Jews." Even Marx thought he was "liberating Jews from Judaism."

- jdyer

March 5, 2010 at 3:42pm

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btw, Irony of Pastor's odd list Lazar Kaganovich Bernie Madoff Jack Abramov Son of Sam Meyer Lansky (and company) Robert Fuld Roy Cohn none of the above acted as "saviors of the Jewish people" It's a pretty random list of despicable people. Pastor about whom I know less than I do about say, Robert Fuld, sounds like a veritable jerk with an ax to grind.

- jdyer

March 5, 2010 at 4:09pm

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- candide

March 5, 2010 at 4:23pm

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Apropos of very little, I think McWhorter would want to find a better example of inappropriate ethnic affiliation than a red-haired and freckled individual speaking Romanian -- Romanians like to claim at least partial ancestry from the ancient Dacians and Thracians, who were described by the Greeks (Xenophanes, among others) as having red hair and blue eyes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair

- wildboy

March 5, 2010 at 4:36pm

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JD: Right! Pastor's list is like The Root's, not like McWhorter's (as Noga pointed out). Your list is more like Pastor's except it has all the lefties in there instead of Madoff. In any event, I don't think the black and Jewish situations are comparable so the comparative list thing is basically silly, McWhorter's list is all about people who are touted as having made a contibution to black self-estimation and autonomy but who have in fact left a legacy of destructive ideas (whites are the enemy) and bad attitudes (crime is cool). I don't think that there is any real equivalent in Jewish circles.

- ironyroad

March 5, 2010 at 4:46pm

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If you don't like the early contentious messages of Malcolm X, wouldn't it be better to get to the source of his early ideology and eliminate Elijah Muhammad? He was the one who made the Black Muslim movement a real force in northern urban communities and spread the gospel that white people were "devils", the creation of an evil ancient scientist named Yacub. In short, you can make the case that this was the guy who proliferated a charlatan religion (I guess that might be offensive, but even his sons have rejected its tenets) dedicated to separatism and the demonization of an entire people. I'd take him off the list before Malcolm X, even if he never attained the fame of his one-time disciple. Same goes for his contemporary iteration, Louis Farrakhan. How did he not make McWhorter's list?

- propositionjoe

March 5, 2010 at 4:59pm

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ironyroad "JD: Right! Pastor's list is like The Root's, not like McWhorter's (as Noga pointed out). Your list is more like Pastor's except it has all the lefties in there instead of Madoff." I don't think that either Madoff or Lansky were political. They were just crooks like say Whitey Bulger.

- jdyer

March 5, 2010 at 6:11pm

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irony, good observation.

- blackton

March 5, 2010 at 6:14pm

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wildboy "Apropos of very little, I think McWhorter would want to find a better example of inappropriate ethnic affiliation than a red-haired and freckled individual speaking Romanian -- Romanians like to claim at least partial ancestry from the ancient Dacians and Thracians, who were described by the Greeks (Xenophanes, among others) as having red hair and blue eyes." They are not the only ancient peoples with red hair and some of them according to Herodotus practiced cannibalism. I don't remember Herodotus claiming that they had red hair, though he might have.

- jdyer

March 5, 2010 at 6:21pm

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"Physical characteristics" "Xenophanes described Thracians as having blue eyes and red hair.[44] Nevertheless academic studies have concluded that Thracians had physical characteristics typical of European Mediterraneans. According to Dr. Beth Cohen, Thracians had "the same dark hair and the same facial features as the Ancient Greeks."[45] Recent genetic analysis comparing DNA samples of ancient Thracian fossil material from southeastern Romania with individuals from modern ethnicities point to genetic kinship with modern Italian, Albanian and Greek populations, followed by Romanians and Bulgarians.[46]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracians#Physical_characteristics

- jdyer

March 5, 2010 at 6:25pm

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"So, in that spirit, if I may add non-Jews to WillPastor's list of Jews who have done damage, I'd throw in the regiment of lunatic fundamentalist-evangelical fans of Israel whose "support" is posited upon an apocalyptic eschatology in which all the Jews stop being Jews and convert en masse to Christianity." This is a comment worthy of hot-minded anti-ZIonists who think there can be no good reason to support Israel unless they approve it. It brings us back to the question of what is a really pure and moral reason to support Israel, is it really necessary to have such a pure reason and should Israelis reject the support of fundamentalist-evangelical fans because of the latters' religiously self-serving agenda. I believe it was Shimon Peres who once said that the evagelists are waiting for the second-coming and the Jews are still waiting for the first coming. So while both groups are waiting for the messiah to appear, or re-appear, and solve that dilemma once and for all, the two groups can be friends and work together if such collaboration can be beneficial for Israel's future. From the nearly ferocious derision in your tone I take it you see something morally and logically wrong in this formula.

- noga1

March 5, 2010 at 6:26pm

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"Pastor about whom I know less than I do about say, Robert Fuld, sounds like a veritable jerk with an ax to grind." I second the impression.

- noga1

March 5, 2010 at 6:35pm

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Okay, to clarify, my list was a joke response to the Roots list, which was basically a list of bad black people (Idi Amin, Papa Doc, The Beltway Sniper etc.), not people who had a big impact on black thinking. Like I said, McWhorter's list was different and more interesting. And yes, I am Jewish (on my mother's side), not a rabid anti-semite who is trying to tar modern day Jews with the legacy of Yusuf Dhu Nuwas. You can check my Facebook page and see the photos from my Birthright trip if you don't believe me. I have to admit to being tribal enough to check every year to see what newly elected congresspeople and nobel laureates are Jewish, but the flip side is I figure I have to acknowledge that Kaganovich was one of us too. Being 5'4", I also keep a mental list of evil short people (from Perry Smith to A'jad). I feel bad for having hijacked this thread. I was about to write that Jews have at least stayed out of the hijacking business but then I remembered Sam Byck.

- WillPastor

March 5, 2010 at 6:37pm

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I dunno Noga, what you call support often isn't. http://michaelmakovi.blogspot.com/2010/02/jews-evangelicals-strange-bedfellows.html "As portrayed in the striking documentary “Waiting for Armageddon,” these supporters are Christian Evangelicals who are neither rural hicks nor ranting fanatics. What they hold in common is an unshakeable faith that every inch of Israel/Palestine belongs to the Jews. “They want the Muslims to be evicted by the Jews, the Jews to rebuild the Temple of Solomon and then Christ to return and trump everyone,” one analyst explains in the film." The essay this young guy writes (and he didn't write what is above, he quoted it) is worth a read. Here is an excerpt of what he wrote: Rabbi Joseph Soloveitchik clearly and unequivocally teaches that Jews must not begrudge the Christians their eschatological beliefs. After all, Judaism holds by its eschatological beliefs just as dearly as the Christians hold by theirs, and Jews thus have no right to criticize the Christians. We may disagree, but that disagreement must be respectful and acknowledge the dignity of Christianity and the right it has to hold its own beliefs, free from coercion and pressure by Jews who begrudge Christians their freedom of religion and conscience." I agree with him the Jews and Evangelicals can be friends, provided Evangelicals do not explicitly interfere in the internal affairs of Israel. Advocating Muslims being evicted from the West Bank ain't helpful.

- blackton

March 5, 2010 at 6:52pm

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Noga: "is it really necessary to have such a pure reason and should Israelis reject the support of fundamentalist-evangelical fans because of the latters' religiously self-serving agenda?" I think there could be a couple of different perspectives on this, and clearly it's up to Israelis to accept or reject support from this particular corner. However, it does seem to me -- and I agree that I'm seeing it from a particular U.S.-based political angle -- that a perspective in which the fans of X are driven by a theology for which the final objective is the X's ceasing to be X is somewhat of a curious one. And where on earth do you hear derisiveness, Noga? You know, someday you and I are going to have to go through a list of terms for rhetorical tones and styles and see if we if we actually agree on the meaning of any of them! He said, somewhat helplessly.

- ironyroad

March 5, 2010 at 6:53pm

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You are forgiven, Will Pastor. Even if you are only half-Jewish and can only lay half- a-claim on any benefits that may accrue to Jews from the Nobel Prize committees. But I wouldn't put too much store by that Zionist-controlled Prize: "Democracy does not explain how it was awarded to 167 Jews, from among those 15 million scattered around the world, while abandoning 1.5 billion Chinese, a billion Indians, and 380 million Arabs. This is racism. [...] "The [Grameen] bank for the poor won the prize because some of its shareholders are giants like Haliburton and others. [...] "They infiltrated this bank, which came to be in the pocket of the Freemasons. This prize stems from the core of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion." http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/1945.htm

- noga1

March 5, 2010 at 6:59pm

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And not to put to fine a point on it, but the inclusion of Gene Shalit on my list should have made it clear that I wasn't trying to advance some serious intellectual argument.

- WillPastor

March 5, 2010 at 7:02pm

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To tell you the truth, Blackton, I don't mind support from the evangelicals even if they advocate extreme measures which I'm sure they have no intention of enforcing by themselves and which will never be submitted to the Knesset for a vote. Their extremism couter-balances the extremists on the other side, whose voices are much louder and violent than any firebrand evangelist, and who seem to have gained more than a dangerous foothold in the campuses of Canada and the USA. Those rabidos are militantly engaged in smearing Israel, criminalizing its existence and pontificating for the dissolution of the Jewish state as the only one just solution, NOW, in our times, and not at some mythical end of days. They don't even bother to explain how the dissolution of Israel can happen without another Jewish genocide and mass expulsion taking place. Compared with such enemies, the evangelicals appear as the epitome of patience and peace-loving.

- noga1

March 5, 2010 at 7:13pm

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Funny link Noga. No hard feelings. Incidentally, that guy's count of Arab Nobel Prize winners is wrong. He missed Lebanese American E.J. Corey, who does excellent synthetic chemistry and was not somehow awarded the prize for treason.

- WillPastor

March 5, 2010 at 7:17pm

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"And where on earth do you hear derisiveness, Noga? " Vehemence, then: "I'd throw in the regiment of lunatic fundamentalist-evangelical fans of Israel whose "support" is posited upon an apocalyptic eschatology in which all the Jews stop being Jews and convert en masse to Christianity." Or whatever. This was not a thoughtful comment. You have a way of sometimes throwing in these feverish comments which sound as if you bring down your fist on the table, by way of shaking your interlocutor from his or her stupor. As if we don't know these facts which you announce as if it were a revelation of sorts. Who are you really mad at? Why shouldn't Israel be as calculated as Obama when he goes a-courting the Muslims at Al-Azhar university, while the Grand Sheikh Mohammed Sayyid Tantawi attends and applauds his speech, the very Sheikh who stated that there are "good Jews and bad Jews": "The good ones convert to Islam...the bad ones do not."

- noga1

March 5, 2010 at 7:26pm

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And your responses, Noga, suggest a barely-controlled anger-management problem as well as searing the reader with their apocalyptic surges of alternating sarcasm and fury. Now could we possibly both agree that our respective ranges of tone are, largely, well within the normal parameters? I am rarely vehement, and when I'm derisive, it will be obvious to all. PS I think the phrase "I'd throw in . . ." kind of undercuts any possible vehemence, even if I'd wanted it there.

- ironyroad

March 5, 2010 at 9:25pm

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"barely-controlled anger-management problem "?? Really? I suggested you were derisive or vehement, but did not attribute to you any particular "problem". So I wonder who is having a hard time controlling their temper. Got a touch of Mollysimonitis, have you?

- noga1

March 5, 2010 at 11:38pm

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?????????

- ironyroad

March 6, 2010 at 1:38am

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I couldn't disagree more with Malcolm X as part of this list. Nonviolence/peaceful resistance/the political process were very effective during the civil rights movement. But so was anger. So was driving fear into the hearts of bigots who would drive into a black neighborhood and find someone to lynch. It wasn't enough to shame white racists. The bully needed to be punched in the eye and made to fear that his actions might have reprisals. Malcolm X is misunderstood as having advocated violence as a general strategy. He did not. He advocated for violence in self-defense...there's nothing wrong with that, in my opinion.

- Virginia Centrist

March 6, 2010 at 7:57am

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"?????????" http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-spine/here-are-the-odds-i-work-the-mossad

- noga1

March 6, 2010 at 8:32am

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Virginia Centrist "I couldn't disagree more with Malcolm X as part of this list. Nonviolence/peaceful resistance/the political process were very effective during the civil rights movement. But so was anger. So was driving fear into the hearts of bigots who would drive into a black neighborhood and find someone to lynch." Show me one bigot who was scared of Malcom? They loved him since it justified their bigotry. Malcom didn't add anything to the civil rights movement. It was people like Medgar Evers and thousands of field workers like him who made civil rights happen.

- jdyer

March 6, 2010 at 11:19am

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Noga and Irony: enough. Take it outside, please. I am sorry I responded to Pastor. He should be ashamed for hijacking and redirecting the thread to another topic. Agree or disagree, McWhorter, as usual, has written another brilliant provocative article that has given us lot to think about without going off on tangents.

- jdyer

March 6, 2010 at 11:22am

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Noga -- I don't know what you are referring to with the link to the other thread -- my posts on it, or yours, or all, or what? We're not taking up all that much space, JD, and I'm just seeking clarification.

- ironyroad

March 6, 2010 at 1:02pm

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The fact that this article so strikingly elicits responses says to me that this is an issue that has yet to be solved. For instance, I think I might disagree with Cobbs as an addition to this list. How many times have I mentioned a person's race to them without thinking, and quite possilbly without meaning any offense? I'm not of a young enough generation like today's teenagers who are moving even further away from racism, but it has affected those inner wheels in my head, just as it has many of yours. Thankfully, we are able to keep the inner workings of our thoughts to ourselves, think, plan, formulate ideas. It doesn't always work out perfectly when we open our mouths (as this author implies with Cobb), but it is something that none of us can escape. And the louder you cry, and the more you yell, the longer that is going to take until you can ...

- jmarshall

March 6, 2010 at 2:19pm

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Never mind Ironyroad. I thought you would get he relevance of mollysimon's psychological assessments by way of insult. If you don't, you don't. It hardly matters. Jackson: Posters around here put up with a lot more from you when you get into one of your endless jousting matches. So please a little patience would be appreciated when occasionally it is called for.

- noga1

March 6, 2010 at 3:42pm

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And Pastor has apologized for his error, and should be forgiven if for no other reason than his misunderstood irony triggered an interesting little discussion.

- noga1

March 6, 2010 at 3:45pm

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Oh, ok. I think you misread my "comic exaggeration to defuse situation" as "insult," however, when it was in fact the former. But, as you say yourself, maybe it hardly matters . . .

- ironyroad

March 6, 2010 at 4:17pm

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jmarshall "Thankfully, we are able to keep the inner workings of our thoughts to ourselves, think, plan, formulate ideas. It doesn't always work out perfectly when we open our mouths (as this author implies with Cobb), but it is something that none of us can escape. And the louder you cry, and the more you yell, the longer that is going to take until you can ..." I don't know marshall, racism means more than just noticing someone's skin color or "race" (not the same thing).

- jdyer

March 6, 2010 at 4:22pm

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jdyer: well aware of that fact -- my point was that even those who have to "insist" that they are not racist have the tendency to ignore quite a few things -- lingering effects of racism; those thoughts & fears that formulate in our heads etc... and if the playing field were even, then i'd have a much easier time accepting the insistence that racism is dead, but i really think it's on a long, slow burn ...

- jmarshall

March 6, 2010 at 9:22pm

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You are speaking in generalities, Marshall. What exactly are the "lingering affects of racism" on specific individuals are they like the effects of divorce on children of sepated parents?

- jdyer

March 7, 2010 at 10:20am

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Good list and starts a good discussion. A few omissions or changes I would consider. I would drop Malcolm X and replace him with Elijah Muhhamad. Malcolm was a great speaker, his father/uncles lynched, and time in prison. Elijah Muhhamad on the other hand was more of a Nut Job and more detrimental to Blacks in general. Why no Louis Farrakhan? Is John McWhorter a little more sympathetic to NOI than most? Farrakhan really has some many negatives and so few positives, perhaps Black History month already omits him. Winne Mandela certainly qualifies for removal. Hijacking the Mandela name to run a bunch of thugs and communists to beat whover disagreed with her certainly blots a triumphal story. Cleopatra. Yes it is possible that Cleo was 'Black' however the attempt to rewrite history in the new Blcak Narrative misses the whole point. Africa is home to the Black people of most of the continent, but it is also part of the broader 'Middle East'. Trying to hijack the famously Egyptian Queen for their own only highlights their lack of history. Interesting topic and maybe Black People and White People can discuss race relations without Eric Holder moderating.

- CRS9TNR

March 7, 2010 at 11:07am

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jd: i apologize for being so general. to be specific -- maybe a child in the late 70's watching a black friend hide in the closet so that's child's mother wouldn't discover a black kid in the house, or consistently, to this day, debating on about black guys dating white girls, or the disproportionate amount of minorities that reside in our jails are the specifics i draw from. i assume my experience could be generalized as you say -- though quite possibly, considering the attitude of some of my friends, maybe it is atypical that i've battled with some of these things, and come out on the other side where i feel i have a pretty good grasp of right and wrong. i have not been to every hamlet and burg in america, but i do think it's safe to say that minorities are still economically, educationally, and socially behind the curve of white americans. generalization to be sure, but i've seen enough of this great country to believe what i've seen with my own eyes. if these things aren't "the lingering effects" of 200 years of slavery + 100 years of jim crow + an explosive and embarrassing civil rights push, then racism truly is dead. i just don't believe it.

- jmarshall

March 7, 2010 at 12:50pm

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"...if these things aren't "the lingering effects" of 200 years of slavery + 100 years of jim crow + an explosive and embarrassing civil rights push, then racism truly is dead. i just don't believe it." I don't know how you got from someone hiding in a closet to slavery. I am sure that there plenty of people who hold racist views about all kinds of people. The point is that it's not sanctioned by law and I don't know of any institution in this country that excludes Black people. And if the existence of poverty were an indication of racism than there is racism then what do you say about the existence of a great many extremely poor white communities in this country? I don't if these statistics are still true but in 1992 "Study Says Poverty Rising Fastest Among Whites; Non-Hispanic Whites a Majority Among the Poor in 33 States, Think Tank Reports..." http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-1028961.html here are some more up-to-date statistics from the US Govenment: "Race and Hispanic Origin (Race data refer to people reporting a single race only.)" "In 2004, the poverty rate declined for Asians (9.8 percent in 2004, down from 11.8 percent in 2003), remained unchanged for Hispanics (21.9 percent) and blacks (24.7 percent) and rose for non-Hispanic whites (8.6 percent in 2004, up from 8.2 percent in 2003)." http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/005647.html We are not going to solve this issue here, but its ignorant to deny that racism in the US as State or institutional policy is almost non-existent. Still the poverty rate among Black people is exceptionally high and if speculating about racism is the solution then the problem would have been solved decades ago.

- jdyer

March 7, 2010 at 4:47pm

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jd: i agree with for the most part that de jure racism is dead and gone in the country. i have no issue with that at all. as far as hiding in closet, again, i can speak to what i have seen with my own eyes, and i think i've seen quite a bit. slavery? nope. jim crow? nope. but i have seen many things in my life that simply weren't right, and were what i guess i've called 'lingering effects.' have you ever had to hide in the closet of someone's house because if you were discovered there might be issues? i'm guessing no, and that in itself probably means little. the real question to me, if you had, how would you feel -- even to this day? would you say, then, that there is no issue? i totally understand and agree that there are dovetailing issues that complicate this, and make generalities, as you say, difficult to pin down. i grew up in indiana, and i saw it. i understand and appreciate your pov's on these issues, but again, to say that because the laws on the books are gone that there is no issue is disingenuous ... at best.

- jmarshall

March 7, 2010 at 6:17pm

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"have you ever had to hide in the closet of someone's house because if you were discovered there might be issues?" In the closet and under the bed, (what kid hasn't) but I never thought of using it to start a Maoist type revolution and unleash the red guards.

- jdyer

March 7, 2010 at 7:04pm

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jd: i hope you said some of that tongue in cheek, because I laughed my ass off ... i should have asked: have you ever hid under the bed/closet because of your race? also, which maoist type revolution are we talking about? this article was about race, not revolution, and i see no maoist revolution anywhere, certainly not here if that's why you're implying ...

- jmarshall

March 7, 2010 at 8:01pm

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Jmarshall “jd: i hope you said some of that tongue in cheek, because I laughed my ass off ... i should have asked: have you ever hid under the bed/closet because of your race?” Yes, but only partly. If hiding in the closet is the worse that you have experienced because of racism, then you are damn lucky. I was in the service when in the places I was stationed stateside you could still see the painted over signs on water fountains which had said “colored” or “white.” I also saw first hand the effects of racism on both Blacks and Whites. I have also known Black soldiers who complained to me about white racists and could very casually make anti-Jewish comments. Hence I am not impressed by your story. Again, yes, there are racists around and I suspect they will always be around. There also many antisemites around though this doesn’t make this an antisemitic country. Had any told me that in my lifetime I would have seen a Black man elected President I would have laughed in their face! (The same is true about a Jew running as a Vice-Presidential candidate.) “also, which maoist type revolution are we talking about? this article was about race, not revolution, and i see no maoist revolution anywhere, certainly not here if that's why you're implying ...” Mao unleashed the deadly red guards because twenty years after his revolution he believed that there was still too much inequality and wanted to change that. His campaign resulted in millions of dead and left the country worse off. Complaints about there still being racism implies that one should cleanse the society of those suspected of racism; hence my allusion to Maoism. We need to get used to the fact that there will always be racists and antisemites among and the best one can do is point it out when it occurs and make sure these people are not in a position of power and stop hoping for a racist free society. It just won’t happen.

- jdyer

March 7, 2010 at 8:22pm

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Jd: "Again, yes, there are racists around and I suspect they will always be around. There also many antisemites around though this doesn’t make this an antisemitic country." I would agree that taking racism on a case-by-case basis is much more applicable in today's world, but I think it was your own post showing poverty stats listing blacks at about 25%, hispanics at 22%, Asians and whites both under 10%. How many ways are there to explain this? 1. It's all minorities' fault. 2. It's all white's fault. 3. It's a little of both. I can't tell you the answer, but you'll excuse me if I refuse to believe that the answer is #1. Go to a jail, go to an inner city school. I believe those numbers from what I've "seen." Those numbers should be explained somehow. I've yet to see you attempt that other than to say racism is no longer sanctioned -- which I agreed with btw. "I would have laughed in their face!" Ditto on both accounts, and I suspect that I'm younger than you "Mao unleashed ..." Yes, I've read plenty about Mao ... "Complaints about there still being racism IMPLIES [my highlight] that one should cleanse the society of those suspected of racism; hence my allusion to Maoism..." No. I argued, again, about "lingering effects." Your own stats support that idea, the population of jails support that idea. You're not impressed with my arguments? A little curt, but fair enough. I'm still to be impressed with yours. Maoist revolution? You cannot possibly be telling me that this is something your fear? Murdering millions of people? I disagree with a lot of people in this country about a lot of things (I suspect), but the day that the left starts murdering those people, is the day that I'd take a bullet for them. Shockingly, (yes, shockingly) I suspect there are many on the left who'd tell you the same. If a Maoist revolution is really what you fear, then you underestimate the youth of America ...

- jmarshall

March 7, 2010 at 9:53pm

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and (i might add) you'd be underestimating the diversity of America ...

- jmarshall

March 7, 2010 at 9:57pm

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This was a fun exercise, which predictably got people making up their own lists. Malcolm X is indeed a deeply problematic figure and I am still astonished that he managed to make a US postage stamp. Best I can say about him was that he loved black people and was utterly fearless. My own candidate for erasure would be Alex Haley, the man wrote and sold "Roots" -- the greatest literary con-job since "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" as Philip Nobile exposed years ago. I know it still has legions of fans and many would argue that the outcome has been, on balance, hugely positive. But the lie at the core still ruins it for me.

- cforeman

March 7, 2010 at 10:10pm

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"I would agree that taking racism on a case-by-case basis is much more applicable in today's world, but I think it was your own post showing poverty stats listing blacks at about 25%, hispanics at 22%, Asians and whites both under 10%. How many ways are there to explain this? 1. It's all minorities' fault. 2. It's all white's fault. 3. It's a little of both. I can't tell you the answer, but you'll excuse me if I refuse to believe that the answer is #1." These are not the only possible answers. If the poverty rate is 25 percent among Blacks, the question is what did the 75 percent of people do to lift themselves out of poverty? How is it that "racism" did not touch them in the same way? Remember too that while the percentage of poor whites is much lower in actual numbers it isn't lower. This is because the number of whites in the country is much higher. Also you can't be seriously arguing that the percentage of Asian poverty rate is due to "racism." In any case we agree on some things, disagree on others. It was fun exchanging posts with you.

- jdyer

March 7, 2010 at 11:42pm

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Though of decidely lesser tier, I'd include Ishmael Reed, the Flavor Flav of Berkeley literary theory. His non-stop buffoonish comments are a perfect example of "once as tragedy, second as farce." And now he's due to release a book calling anyone who disagrees with Obama a N*** Breaker, relating a term culled from slavery, and even making it applicable to people who hold Obama to his own words. I kid you not; check out the Amazon description. Is it fair to parse De Sade's old "priest and judge" quote from the Bastile and say there will be no intelligent American discourse until the last Anne Coulter is hung with the a rope made from the guts of the last I. Reed?

- cansv

March 11, 2010 at 9:37pm

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