POLITICS MAY 18, 2009
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Former Vice President Cheney says that President Obama's reversal of Bush-era terrorism policies endangers American security. The Obama administration, he charges, has "moved to take down a lot of those policies we put in place that kept the nation safe for nearly eight years from a follow-on terrorist attack like 9/11." Many people think Cheney is scare-mongering and owes President Obama his support or at least his silence. But there is a different problem with Cheney's criticisms: his premise that the Obama administration has reversed Bush-era policies is largely wrong. The truth is closer to the opposite: The new administration has copied most of the Bush program, has expanded some of it, and has narrowed only a bit. Almost all of the Obama changes have been at the level of packaging, argumentation, symbol, and rhetoric. This does not mean that the Obama changes are unimportant. Packaging, argumentation, symbol, and rhetoric, it turns out, are vitally important to the legitimacy of terrorism policies.
The Bush approach to counterterrorism policy included eleven essential elements. Here is the Obama position to date on each.
1. War v. Crime
A bedrock Bush principle was that the threat posed by al Qaeda and its affiliates required the president to assert military war powers. The legality of controversial policies like military detention, military commissions, and targeted killings depends in the first instance on the United States being in a state of war. Many Obama supporters and most allies sharply disagree with the war characterization, and maintain that the criminal justice system--arrest, extradition, civilian trials, and the like--suffices to meet the terror threat. President Obama mostly skirted this issue on the campaign trail. But his administration has embraced the Bush view that, as a legal matter, the United States is in a state of war with al Qaeda and its affiliates, and that the president's commander-in-chief powers are triggered. This position should be unsurprising: Congress has made clear that we are at war with these groups, and the Supreme Court has affirmed that we are.
2. Guantanamo Bay
President Obama has announced that he is closing the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. By itself, this is not a departure from the Bush administration, which also stated a desire to close GTMO. The new administration is implementing this policy with greater vigor, however, and is seriously considering bringing terrorist detainees to the United States. Congress and our allies are throwing up roadblocks to these efforts. Even if the administration overcomes them, closing GTMO may have no material impact on U.S. detention practice. Because the Supreme Court has ruled that habeas corpus rights extend to detainees on the island, the detainees will likely receive no more rights on U.S. soil than in Cuba. The real question is not where the detainees are located, but rather the basis for their detention. On this issue, as explained below, the new president is swimming close to the old one.
3. Military detention
Many Obama supporters thought he would oppose the detention of terrorist suspects without trial. But not so. Last month Secretary of Defense Gates hinted that up to 100 suspected terrorists would be detained without trial. And a few weeks ago the Obama Justice Department filed a legal brief arguing that the president can detain indefinitely, without charge or trial, members of al Qaeda, the Taliban, "associated forces," and those who "substantially support" these groups, no matter where in the world they are captured. Federal district court judge Reggie Walton correctly noted that the Obama administration refinements drew "metaphysical distinctions" with the Bush position that seemed to be "of a minimal if not ephemeral character." The Obama refinements might preclude detention of some suspected terrorists who would be detainable under the Bush regime, but only at the margin. The core Bush legal position remains in place.
4. Habeas Corpus
During the campaign former professor Obama spoke eloquently about the importance of habeas corpus review of executive detentions of enemy soldiers. Habeas corpus is "the foundation of Anglo-American law" and "the essence of who we are," he said. But his administration has applied this principle in the same narrow fashion as the late Bush administration. It has argued that Guantanamo detainees can challenge the "fact, duration, or location" of confinement on habeas review, but not their "conditions of confinement." It has maintained that "the Geneva Conventions are not judicially enforceable by private individuals" in habeas proceedings. And it has made clear its belief that the limited habeas rights it recognizes for the two hundred or so detainees on Guantanamo Bay do not extend to the 600 or so detainees in Bagram Air Base. This latter position might prove more controversial for President Obama than for President Bush. The new president's enlarged military commitment in Afghanistan and Pakistan, combined with the forthcoming closure of Guantanamo, means that the number of suspects detained in Bagram--without charge or trial and without access to lawyers or habeas rights--is likely to increase, perhaps dramatically.
5. Military Commissions
On his first day in office, President Obama sought a 120-day suspension of military commissions that many viewed as their death knell. But last week the Obama administration said it would revive military commissions. The main impetus for this decision, according to The Washington Post, is that the new administration, like its predecessor, concluded that its cases "would fail in federal courts or in standard military legal settings." The new commissions rules have not been published but they will apparently disallow evidence obtained from coercion, admit hearsay only if it is reliable, and give detainees more freedom to choose their attorneys. These are not large changes from the Bush rules as they stood in 2008. Under the Bush regime military judges could and did suppress evidence obtained from coercive interrogations (though not to the same degree as they will be able to do under Obama) and declined to admit unreliable hearsay. And the Obama alteration on defense lawyers does not appear substantial. So, if we map the distance between the rights that suspected terrorists would receive under Bush military commissions and the rights they would receive in civilian trials, suspects tried in Obama military commissions gain relatively little from the Bush baseline.
6. Targeted Killing
Targeted killing is another Bush administration policy being continued, and indeed ramped up, by President Obama. The new administration has used unmanned predator drones to kill suspected al Qaeda targets in Afghanistan and Pakistan at a greater rate than the Bush administration. These more aggressive targeted killings have predictably caused more collateral damage to innocent civilians. In what appears to be the worst episode since 9/11, a predator attack earlier this month killed many dozens of civilians, including many women and children, in the Farah province of Afghanistan. The targeted killing policy has grown very controversial in Afghanistan and among human rights groups. The International Committee of the Red Cross maintains that international law permits targeting only of people "continuously" engaged in hostile actions, and that only "necessary" force can be used against them. This standard would require a significant rollback of the Obama targeted killing program. It is thus not surprising that the Obama State Department views the Red Cross restrictions as "problematic."
7. Rendition
The Obama administration has said that it will continue renditions--the practice, dating back at least to the Clinton administration, of grabbing suspected terrorists in one country and bringing them to another. CIA director Panetta has said that the Obama administration will not render suspects for purposes of torture, and many have seen this position as a rejection of the Bush form of rendition. But despite this rhetoric, the Obama administration will continue to use the Bush-Clinton standard of foreign country assurances concerning torture, a standard that prohibited rendition only when it is "more likely than not"--that is, a greater than 50 percent chance--"that the suspect will be subjected to torture." Because the public knows little about the rendition practice, it is unclear how, if at all, the practice will change under Obama. But the core legal standard articulated by the new administration appears to be the same as its predecessor.
8. Secret Prisons
While the Obama administration has not rejected rendition to third countries, it has dismantled the Bush system of secret overseas prisons (so-called "black sites") and thus has eliminated rendition to and detention in these prisons. Although the Bush administration used these facilities little in recent years, this seems like a departure from the Bush era. But even here the Obama practice may be closer to the late Bush practice than meets the eye. President Obama's executive order barring the CIA from using "detention facilities" contained a loophole for "facilities used only to hold people on a short-term, transitory basis." The degree to which the Obama policy is a true departure from the late Bush practice thus depends on the administration's (probably secret) interpretation of what it means to detain someone on a "short-term, transitory basis."
9. Surveillance
In the summer of 2008, candidate Obama voted to put President Bush's unilateral warrantless wiretapping program, which he had opposed as an abuse of presidential power, on a legally more defensible statutory basis. Obama supported the bill even though it gave telecommunication firms that cooperated with President Bush immunity from lawsuits, a provision Obama disliked. In office, President Obama has not renounced or sought to narrow any of the surveillance powers used by the late Bush administration, and has not sought legislation to reverse the telecom's immunity. Nor has he yet acted to fulfill his campaign pledge to significantly strengthen the Privacy and Civil Liberties Board that oversees and protects civil liberties in intelligence gathering. The Obama surveillance program appears to be identical to the late Bush era program.
10. State Secrets
The state secrets doctrine allows the government to prevent the disclosure of evidence in court based on its view that the disclosure would endanger national security. Candidate Obama criticized the Bush administration's use of this doctrine. But in at least three lawsuits growing out of Bush-era surveillance and rendition practices, the Obama Justice Department endorsed the same broad view of the state secrets privilege as the Bush administration. President Obama said last month that "the state secret doctrine should be modified" to make it a less "blunt instrument," and his lawyers are seeking ways to narrow the doctrine in some cases. But it is unclear how far this initiative will go, and in any event for now the Obama position is the Bush position.
11. Interrogation
On his first day in office President Obama signed an executive order requiring the CIA to use only the relatively benign techniques approved by the military field manual. He later released and rejected Department of Justice legal interpretations of the Torture statute and related laws. This is a large change in announced policy from the Bush administration, and the change that the former Vice President seems to like least. But it is less of a departure from the late Bush practice than meets the eye. Several reports suggest that a 2006 Supreme Court ruling, legislation concerning interrogation that same year, and growing public opprobrium led the Bush team, by 2007, to narrow the range of CIA-approved interrogation techniques, especially as compared to 2002-2003. Moreover, the Obama executive order established a task force to study whether the CIA should be able to use different interrogation techniques than the military, and CIA Director Panetta supports tougher interrogation techniques for his agency in some circumstances. As a result, the jury is still out on the differences between CIA interrogation techniques used during the late Bush administration and those ultimately used by Obama's CIA.
The Obama administration is still debating many of these issues, and its final policies are not all set. Its changes to Bush practices thus far--cutting back on secret detentions, probable new restrictions on interrogation, and relatively small procedural changes to military commissions--will leave some suspected terrorists in a better place than they would have been under the Bush regime (although Obama's increase in targeted killings will likely result in more deaths and injuries, without due process, to terror suspects and innocent civilians). Even with these caveats, at the end of the day, Obama practices will be much closer to late Bush practices than almost anyone expected in January 2009. Why has this happened, and what does it mean?
One reason the Obama practices are so close to the late Bush practices is that the late Bush practices were much different than the early ones. In 2001-2003, both fear of terrorism and Bush unilateralism were at their height. But in the last six years, the terror threat has appeared to fade (at least to the public), and Congress and the courts have engaged on terrorism issues, pushing back on some, approving others, and acquiescing in yet others. Congress altered somewhat and then approved the early Bush approach to surveillance, military commissions, and military detention. Rendition and targeted killings have gone on for over a decade without congressional pushback. Congress and the courts restricted permissible interrogations. Some courts have approved the state secrets doctrine as well as military detention without trial. The Supreme Court declared that a portion of the Geneva Conventions applies to the conflict with al Qaeda and rejected early Bush positions on the scope of habeas corpus. In these and many other ways, U.S. terrorism law looked wholly different at the outset of the Obama administration than in 2001-2003. The law was much clearer in 2009, and there was much greater consensus--across political parties and the branches of government--about permissible policies and their limits. Many Obama policies reflect that consensus.
The Obama policies also reflect the fact that the Bush policies were woven into the fabric of the national security architecture in ways that were hard if not impossible to unravel. The new administration would not face the difficulties of closing GTMO if GTMO had not been used as a detention facility in the first place. It would have an easier time prosecuting some terrorist suspects in civilian courts had information about their crimes not been extracted through coercion (assuming, that is, that it would have nabbed the suspects in the absence of the information gained through coercion). And so on. It is impossible to know how an Obama (or any other) administration would have dealt with the manifold terrorist challenges beginning on 9/11, or how the world might look different today if the Bush administration had made different decisions. But no doubt some of the Obama agreement with Bush policies reflects the fact that Obama inherited challenges that were created by decisions with which he would not have agreed.
A third reason for the closeness of the Bush and Obama policies is that many of the Bush policies reflect longstanding executive branch positions. Every wartime president has asserted the right to detain enemy forces without charge or trial during war. Many of them used military commissions for war criminals. Presidents dating back at least to Carter have maintained that habeas corpus review does not extend to aliens detained outside the United States. The state secrets doctrine is over a century old and has been employed vigorously by presidents since the 1970s. Rendition and targeted killings began under Clinton if not earlier. It is no surprise that President Obama seeks to maintain these presidential powers. It would be a surprise if he did not do so.
A final explanation for the congruence between Obama and Bush policies is that governing is much harder than campaigning. The presidency invariably gives its occupants a sober outlook on problems of national security. The "responsibilities placed on the United States are greater than I imagined them to be, and there are greater limitations upon our ability to bring about a favorable result than I had imagined them to be," said President John F. Kennedy, nearly two years into his presidency. "There is such a difference between those who advise or speak or legislate, and between the man who must select from the various alternatives proposed and say that this shall be the policy of the United States. It is much easier to make the speeches than it is to finally make the judgments."
President Obama has gone from a legislator and presidential candidate to the commander in chief wholly responsible for the nation's safety. He now reads the same threat reports as President Bush and confronts the same challenge of stopping Islamist terrorists who hide among civilians and who want to use ever-smaller and more deadly weapons to disrupt our way of life. He also faces the same paucity of truly useful information about the enemy and the same hard tradeoffs between liberty and security. And he knows that the American people will blame him and no one else if the terrorists strike. "The whole government is so identified in the minds of the people with [the president's] personality," said William Howard Taft, "that they make him responsible for all the sins of omission and of commission of society at large." The intense personal responsibility of the president for national security, combined with the continuing reality of a frightening and difficult-to-detect threat, has unsurprisingly led President Obama, like President Bush, to want to use the full arsenal of presidential tools
The main difference between the Obama and Bush administrations concerns not the substance of terrorism policy, but rather its packaging. The Bush administration shot itself in the foot time and time again, to the detriment of the legitimacy and efficacy of its policies, by indifference to process and presentation. The Obama administration, by contrast, is intensely focused on these issues.
The Bush White House had a principled commitment to expanding presidential power that predated 9/11. This commitment led it early on to act unilaterally on military commissions, detention, and surveillance rather than seeking political and legal support from Congress, and to oppose judicial review of these and other wartime policies. The public concerns about presidential power induced by these actions were exacerbated by the administration's expansive rhetoric. Department of Justice opinions and presidential signing statements, for example, made broad claims for an untouchable Commander-in-Chief power that were unnecessary to the tasks at hand. Just as damaging was the administration's frequently expressed desire to expand executive power in order, as Vice President Cheney put it, "to leave the presidency stronger than we found it."
Such rhetoric was unprecedented in American wartime history, and was especially unfortunate in a war involving a novel enemy and widespread public doubts about the appropriateness of using war powers against such an enemy. The public worries about excessive presidential power during war, and prudent presidents try to assuage and meet these concerns. Abraham Lincoln and Franklin D. Roosevelt were the most powerful war presidents in our history. They never talked publicly about a desire to expand their power, for doing so would have been self-defeating and politically stupid. When they exercised extraordinary authorities, as they often did, they put forth a grudging public face, expressions of respect for constitutional values, and explanations about why the steps were an unfortunate but necessary means to an important national security end.
The Bush administration's opposite rhetorical strategy led many people to suspect that the president was acting to increase his own power rather than to keep the country safe. The strategy's main effect was to distort the legitimacy of many Bush wartime practices that had been uncontroversial in previous wars. The early Bush administration failed to grasp what Lincoln and Roosevelt understood well: the vital ongoing need to convince the citizenry that the president is using his extraordinary war powers for the public good and not for personal or institutional aggrandizement. By the time the Bush administration began to act on this principle in its second term, it was too late; its credibility on these issues--severely damaged not only by unilateralism and expansive rhetoric, but also by mistaken intelligence in the war with Iraq--was unrecoverable.
President Obama, by contrast, entered office with great stores of credibility in speaking about the dangers of terrorism and the difficulties of meeting the terror threat. The new president was a critic of Bush administration terrorism policies, a champion of civil liberties, and an opponent of the invasion of Iraq. His decision (after absorbing the classified intelligence and considering the various options) to continue core Bush terrorism policies is like Nixon going to China. Because the Obama policies play against type and (in some quarters of his party) against interest, they appear more likely to be a necessary response to a real terror threat and thus less worrisome from the perspective of presidential aggrandizement than when the Bush administration embraced essentially the same policies.
This credibility cannot last forever, and probably won't last long without careful nurturing. The Obama administration shows every sign of trying to do just that. It seems to have embraced, probably self-consciously, the tenets of democratic leadership that Roosevelt and Lincoln used to enhance presidential trust, and thus presidential effectiveness, during their wars. Like Roosevelt and to some degree Lincoln, President Obama has chosen a bipartisan national security team to help convey that his national security actions are in the public interest and not a partisan one. Also like our two greatest war presidents, President Obama seems committed to genuine consultation with Congress. If he gets Congress fully on board for his terrorism program, he will spread responsibility for the policies and help convince the public and the courts that the threat is real and the steps to counterterrorism necessary. President Obama has also promised a less secretive executive branch than President Bush. There is little evidence yet that his administration has done this, but if it does, it will reduce the mistakes that excessive secrecy brings and produce a more responsible and prudent government.
Finally, the Obama administration is following the Lincoln-Roosevelt approach to rhetoric and public symbols. The president talks frequently about the importance of adhering to constitutional values, he worries publicly about terrorism policies going too far, and he suggests that he is looking for ways to keep them in check. He has said not a word about presidential prerogative in national security or the importance of expanding his power. Closing GTMO--especially in the face of loud opposition--is an important symbol of the new president's commitment to the rule of law even if the detainees ultimately receive no greater rights. The small restrictions his administration has placed on itself as compared to the late Bush practices are public indications of restraint, especially when contrasted with the early Bush insistence on maximum presidential flexibility at all costs. They are yet more significant because the Obama administration is embracing them on its own initiative rather than, as was so often true of its predecessor, under apparent threat of judicial or congressional scrutiny.
A good example of these strategies in action is the Obama administration's "new" rationale for detaining enemy forces indefinitely without charge or trial. The administration took the same basic position as its predecessor but placed it in prettier wrapping. It eliminated the dreaded label "enemy combatant." It narrowed the scope of those who can be detained from persons who "support" al Qaeda and its affiliates to persons who "substantially support" them--a change without large practical consequences, but a change nonetheless. And it grounded its authority to detain in Congress's authorization for the war and the international laws of war, showing that the president's detention powers were approved by bodies outside the presidency. This was the Bush position as well, but with an important difference: The Bush administration argued that it could detain enemy soldiers on its own constitutional authority, and without congressional support. The Obama administration dropped this argument (but did not reject it), and won favorable press coverage for its "departure" from the Bush position even though the change affected nothing in the president's present power to detain.
One can view these and many similar Obama administration efforts as attempts to save face while departing from campaign promises and supporter expectations. And no doubt there is an element of this in the Obama strategy. But the Obama strategy can also be seen, more charitably, as a prudent attempt to legitimate and thus strengthen the extraordinary powers that the president must exercise in the long war against Islamist terrorists. The president simply cannot exercise these powers over an indefinite period unless Congress and the courts support him. And they will not support him unless they think he is exercising his powers responsibly, under law, with real constraints, to address a real threat. The Obama strategy can thus be seen as an attempt to make the core Bush approach to terrorism politically and legally more palatable, and thus sustainable.
If this analysis is right, then the former vice president is wrong to say that the new president is dismantling the Bush approach to terrorism. President Obama has not changed much of substance from the late Bush practices, and the changes he has made, including changes in presentation, are designed to fortify the bulk of the Bush program for the long-run. Viewed this way, President Obama is in the process of strengthening the presidency to fight terrorism.
Jack Goldsmith, a professor at Harvard Law School and a member of the Hoover Institution Task Force on National Security and Law, was an Assistant Attorney General in the Bush administration and is the author of The Terror Presidency: Law and Judgment Inside the Bush Administration (W.W. Norton 2007).
89 comments
"mistaken intelligence" ... mistaken, implies, well, a mistake. It was not a mistake. They mined and poked and prodded and massaged until they could convincingly scare the shit out of everyone and start a war. They lied this country into a war.
- Alexi
May 19, 2009 at 6:11am
Butchie, phone home.
- WandreyCer1
May 19, 2009 at 7:47am
So, your point is that the former VP is wrong because Obama is starting to move in the direction the former VP is urging? And that Obama is better than the Bush Admin because it uses "prettier" wrapping, and extolls constitutional values while recently committing to similar policies on certain issues? Hmm. I don't think that makes tthe former VP wrong. I think that shows he is doing exactly the right thing, and should continue that effort to prevent additional backsliding. Remember: Obama announced what appeared to be wholesale changes to many of these programs when he took office. The backsliding is not from his self-initiated reconsideration of these issues -- his reconsideration has been caused by the public reaction led by Cheney and others. Sure, Presidents come to understand the complexity of these issues over time. But this President stated his definitive views on certain issues on day 1, and is now backtracking. Jack: I know you are still upset about certain things in the last administration -- inside baseball really -- but you can't realistically couch this as an attack on the former VP when it actually acknowledges the positive effect of his recent public advocacy. To be honest, you might say that the VP has had an effective role in modifying campaign rhetoric into more realistic Obama policy, and that the VP's continued efforts may serve to further moderate Obama policies as the administration moves fwd.
- DOJ Colleague
May 19, 2009 at 8:01am
Will "The Obama Voter Fallacy" be coming soon? If this is intended as a slight of Bush/Cheney, it seems to me this article shows how uninformed and misaligned Obama's anti-war voters were.
- Mark
May 19, 2009 at 8:18am
Interesting points Jack, but your thesis isn't exactly right. As you recognize, the new administration has started to move back toward a much more moderate position on certain issues, and specifically toward the former Bush views. But this was not self-initiated by the Obama White House. Indeed, they took starkly different positions on the campaign AND at the beginning of this administration. It cannot be reasonably disputed that these shift have been caused in part by the recent public advocacy by Cheney himself, and also by repeated pleas from our military in Iraq and elsewhere. The Weekly Standard now calls Cheney the MVP on these issues. You have to admit that the Obama campaign rhetoric actually led to some stark public announcements at the beginning of this administration -- which are now being moderated by the President himself. You also have to admit that public pressure -- largely from the former VP but also now from others who have now gained the courage to speak -- is actually moving the Obama administration in that direction that you suggest is wise. Maybe the New Republic requires you to title this piece "the Cheney Fallacy" to get it published, or maybe you are still sore about various Bush Administration "inside baseball" issues. I don't know. But I do know that it is not fair to suggest that the Obama administration made certain of these moves all on its own, and that its substantial wisdom is shown by "prettying"?? up the policies. That is a fallacy. Also -- the Obama administration is still moving very quickly in a negative direction on various of these issues. And the OBAMA DOJ seems to differ significantly with many of your views as AAG. Thanks.
- Former Colleague
May 19, 2009 at 8:21am
Very nice. An article with actual analysis and interesting ideas, rather than today's facelift of the same old tired memes.
- Alex
May 19, 2009 at 10:24am
Obama is the "Peanut Farmer" junior.... Sadly, the dolt voters fell for his mantra of "Change". Same crappola that The peanut farmer used to win 1n 1976 ... hopefully, rational American voters will prevail and Obama will either follow in the path of "Slick Willy" and be impeached or follow the "Peanut Farmer" and lose in a landslide in 2012. Obama and his left-wing wacko friends want a disarmed, socialist, terrorist coddling, bankrupt USA. The sooner the leftists are booted out again ... the better it will be for the USA!
- Neal
May 19, 2009 at 10:32am
hmmm...Obama Good...Bush Bad......very investigative reporting here....same policies, only now the democrats own the war...it's funny to see them running around trying to learn how to govern...and even funnier to see so-called journalist's trying to cover for them...this article is a great example...now it's this administrations attempts at "War on Terror", oops, that's not what it's called now, is it? ....is "prettier??"" ...Yep, Bush/Cheney 1 Obama/the Joker 0 Prettier?? This writer deserves to be laughed out of his job...
- dadling
May 19, 2009 at 10:39am
I'm not a regular visitor to TNR and I'm not sure I've ever read any article by you so everything I'm writing is solely based on this one article and the reputation of TNR. If I've misunderstood your intentions or fundamental beliefs please correct me as I'm sure you or other posters to this page will. So now we're supposed to believe that Obama's just as tough as Bush on terror even though he campaigned like crazy that Bush's policies were not keeping us safe but instead putting us in more danger and that to continue these policies would only make things worse. We're supposed to believe that he only differs in what he labels things and how he talks about them. If what he said about Bush's policies was true and what you are saying is true also then shouldn't you be reporting that he's putting us in more danger based on his own campaign rhetoric? Either you (and your cohorts in the press) didn't correct his lies then or you are lying for him now. Does that mean that what we got with Obama was an amatuer Bush-lite with nicer hot air and a teleprompter? If that's the case then so much for "change". Or could it be that now that Iraq is starting to go south again and Afghanistan isn't improving and Pakistan is rapidly deteriorating, all proving how the world and especially our enemies view the Obama Administration as weak and that they can act with indifference to what the US might do now, that you would have us believe that he's doing all the things just like Bush did and that everything would have gone just as bad whether he was in charge or a Republican and that it's not his fault but that it's still Bush's fault because in reality it's still Bush's policies and he had no choice and was forced to keep them going? Is that the garbage you guys are now trying to peddle for him Goldsmith? Maybe you guys should stop idolyzing him and start doing your jobs without the bias because if this is all true then I would've rather avoided the amatuer community-organizer hour and taken McCain. At least we would've gotten experience and probably alot less deficit spending as well as we would've avoided the crazy left-wing anti-capitalism, anti-individualism, socialist policies that are so prevalent in the Obama administration. Stop the love affair and start the real reporting. Your arguments are real thin and your Gitmo policy comparison is laughable. Perhaps Cheney would have stayed out of the spot-light if you guys would have done your jobs. Our fore-fathers wanted the press to be the government watch-dogs not liberal cheerleaders and mouth-pieces, that's what "freedom of the press" was all about. You dishonor them.
- Dontaxme Bro
May 19, 2009 at 10:56am
The real difference between the Obama and Bush policies is the way they are portrayed in the press. Few in the press are criticizing Obama's policies, though they savaged Bush for the same ones. Not only do the policies have prettier wrapping as far as the press is concerned, but the president does too.
- AvoCat
May 19, 2009 at 11:09am
In Cheney's defense, Eric Holder raided the confidential White House-Justice Department memos on interrogation techniques and weasaled out the ones he thought damaging to the Bush Administration (not really if you read them) while continuing to keep others locked away ... apolitically lame shall we all not agree? So Cheney is defending himself; it's the Obama Administration that started this by impugning - in a dastardly way - Bush's foreign policy tactics. TMD
- The Masked Defender
May 19, 2009 at 11:24am
It's not that Cheney is proven wrong. But that Obamas's recent actions are proving Cheney and many of the Bush policy's were right. They may not be popular with the goo goo Obama crowd, but they are necessary. I guess Obama is either smart enough to have figured a few things out. Or he's not smart enough to do what he really wants and get most of America to swallow it.
- bosswang
May 19, 2009 at 11:28am
This "Bush Lied" theme is old and wrong; the Bush II intelligence was basically the Clinton intelligence ... they had the same CIA director! In any case, the USA provided Hussein all opporunity to rebut the evidence and arguement that he had WMD and he was a threat ... instead Hussein corroborated the evidence and the argument. He WANTED the world to believe he had WMD! How did Bush "cherry-pick" that? We had no choice but to act. And by now, 6 years later, he would likely have them in some form. Hussein was gunning for the USA; could he have, he would have slipped a dirty bomb to some death-seeking Islamic fundamentalist and everyone knows it. George W. Bush was one of the best presidents this nation ever had. TMD
- The Masked Defender
May 19, 2009 at 11:29am
Yes and Bush era consumption, debt, misallocation of our resources, war on science, etc. was such a picnic. You right wingers are nutty assholes who don't deserve a public airing and your views are completely out of touch with reality. Frankly, Obama will once again save this country from the poplutist-socialist tendencies just like FDR did in the 30s. Good luck with that anger thing too, it is really an attractive way to build support for your cause - just ask Germans from the Weimar Republic. It's funny, no matter whether conservatives win or lose, they are always so ANGRY. You would be humorous, if you weren't so frightening and so counter to American ideals of tolerance, progress and liberty.
- karen andrews
May 19, 2009 at 11:31am
Another red herring from the most famous demagogues in the history of our country. We have worse people, much worse people currently incarcerated in our prisons. What kind of weak crap is this? Plus, when did we become the country of the frightened and the terrified of everything? I for one don’t care where you send them, you can send them here to Dayton Ohio and it would not bother me in the least. Maybe it’s because I don’t spend my days and nights quivering in a corner worrying if “The terrorist are coming to get me”. We need to be very careful about all of this fear. That is exactly what lead to our allowing these cowards (Bush/Cheney) to get away with so much criminal behavior and it is also what motivated them to commit these crimes. If you watch the cable news chatter all one sees is Republicans in trying to defend Bush/Cheney with quotes like “Well you have to remember 911 had just happened” or You have to understand they were trying to protect the country” or “They were under a lot of pressure at that time” or “They were making decisions under extreme pressure”. All of those quotes translate into one damn sentence “WE WAS SCARED”! Where are the real men when you need them. Brave conquerors that made this country what it used to be. Where in the hell did all of these sissies come from? I firmly believe that if a person got five deferments to avoid service or his father made a way for him to get an emergency appointment to the National Guard to avoid service, that’s fine. I also firmly believe that people who do such things should be barred from elective office for life. There is nothing inherently wrong with being a coward but you should be consistent---stay a coward. That person should not be allowed to give an opinion on war-go work at the library and shut the hell up on this subject. Personally, I don’t like being around dead bodies so I have no opinion about how a funeral home should be run. I leave that subject to the experts in that field. I am a honorably Discharged Viet Nam era Veteran and I volunteered, I did not wait to be drafted. I do not appreciate a bunch of damn cowards like Bush/Cheney/Rush expressing their “shot over their shoulders, behind their backs while running away theories on how to protect a nation. They are out of their league and I would much more appreciate it if they just shut the hell up and go to a movie. Get back on the porch and let the big dogs handle this!
- dhampton100
May 19, 2009 at 11:40am
I should have known better than to expect an honest article from Jack Goldsmith. The point of this extended jive-fest is that all reasonable people agree that 97% of what Bush did was "right". It was just the gosh-darn packaging! Oy, the hypocrisy! Jack Goldsmith, go home!
- Alan Vanneman
May 19, 2009 at 11:41am
So our new president has taken sound, though unpopular policies, and made them more palatable to the public. That's just good politics. I hope the GOP finds someone with these skills by 2012. I'm still very put off by the overall spending projections and the hyper-partisanship of the Congressional leadership, but thats a completely different discussion. Alexi, you should try some yoga or something to clear your muddled thinking. And then pick up some scholarly works on military history and the intelligence services. You might eventually come to understand that things aren't so black and white as you're suggesting.
- J Lee
May 19, 2009 at 11:51am
It boils down to one thing BUSH was right case closed.
- pomoc
May 19, 2009 at 11:53am
Obama has correctly asserted that we are at war. These are not criminals we are detaining, they are soldiers. They do not call themselves terrorists, nor should we. The President has all legal authority to detain and hold enemy combatants. Our law is very clear on this. Get over it or change the law.
- Mark MacDonald
May 19, 2009 at 12:03pm
Very well said DOJ colleague
- JAZ
May 19, 2009 at 12:03pm
An excellent article about the realities Mr. Obama now faces and the extraordinary way he and his administration are dealing with them, both publicly and privately. Mr. Cheney's misleading comments about the Obama administration are simply more of the same toxic partisan rhetoric we have come to expect from the GOP leadership. His plans for an imperial presidency (dictatorship) fell flat on their face and he has an extreme case of sour grapes. He should take his paranoid, sociopathic self back to his favorite undisclosed location...
- DaveM
May 19, 2009 at 12:29pm
Yeah! Yeah! Convince me that Obama is making things better by copying Bush and putting lip stick on it. Write when you can convince me that Obama has a thought of his own. But why should you wait for me? The Kool-Aide drinker will suck this garbage up.
- Pedro
May 19, 2009 at 12:35pm
This is an extremely confusing article. One cannot tell whether the author favors the Obama view or the Cheney view, since he claims that the Obama approach is little different from the Bush approach. Unsurprisingly here in TNR, his use of the term "Bush regime" (has anyone yet heard or read the term "Obama regime"?) shows his liberal political leanings, but he seems hesitant to embrace the Obama approach. Perhaps he is concerned that the Obama administration is looking to expand executive powers exactly as he claims the Bush administration did. The author's claim that "Obama policies also reflect the fact that the Bush policies were woven into the fabric of the national security architecture in ways that were hard if not impossible to unravel" seem an empty Obama apologetic. Virtually every step the Bush admin took about which the author complains were congressionally approved (or at least overseen). In my view, if anything currently concerns Obama about this situation, it is that he realizes he cannot afford to lose the support of the center of his party. Millions of moderate Democrats support strong national defense, and they see little if any problem with judicious use of electronic surveillance, enhanced interrogation methods, and military tribunals. Indeed, the author himself later puts forth this rationale for Obama's approach - that governing is harder than campaigning. Perhaps "some of the Obama agreement with Bush policies reflects the fact that Obama inherited challenges that were created by decisions with which he would not have agreed," but the critical question is what Obama would have supported AS PRESIDENT in 2002 - not as a state legislator in 2004 when his views were fairly obscure and focused on winning a US Senate seat in his strongly Democratic-leaning state. The author's views on the Obama administration's greater skill at selling its programs is accurate in itself, but the implications of this are rather more disturbing. Indeed, what the author implies unintentionally is that the Obama administration will seek essentially the powers he claims the Bush administration sought or seized, but will do so more deftly and thus with greater success. Is that a desirable presidential trait in domestic governance? The claim "Bush White House had a principled commitment to expanding presidential power that predated 9/11" is simply opinion without relevant fact to support it. Lincoln suspended habeas for EVERYONE, not just unlawful combatants (who, by the way, according to the Geneva Conventions, are subject to summary battlefield execution). FDR allowed numerous Nazi spies to be executed via proceedings that allowed far weaker defense opportunities than the GTMO tribunals. FDR also detained hundreds of thousands of Japanese-Americans to forestall spying. These actions significantly exceeded the Bush administration's efforts to expand presidential power during wartime. Providing a Cheney quote to the effect hardly proves the point - he wasn't even president! Furthermore, the fact that the Bush admin "shot itself in the foot time and time again" indicates that GWB wasn't particularly interested in trying to hide any efforts he took to expand his wartime powers. Finally, the author's claim that Obama's acceptance (perhaps begrudging) of Bush policies makes his wielding of them acceptable essentially because "he is he" displays the worst kind of hypocrisy. These "abuses" were a principal thrust of the Obama and Democratic campaigns in both 2006 and 2008. To allow Obama slack on these policies where GWB was given none by Obama implies that partisanship and personal preference are the only reasons for his winning the election, since another major Obama strategy was the "McCain = Bush III" thrust. While I applaud Obama's desire to govern effectively in general by maintaining critical Bush admin initiatives that his campaign condemned, it is disheartening to see him practice the unbridled partisanship against which he railed during his campaign in doing so. Perhaps an admission that the previous administration got most of the War on Terror right would be in order, but I won't hold my breath.
- Tim
May 19, 2009 at 12:45pm
I agree with those above about the "Fallacy" point. At least as far as I can recall, Cheney started speaking out before the Obama Administration adopted the more careful national security approaches in your letter. I think Cheney is still aggrieved by certain Obama policies, but also acknowledges that the movement has been positive on others (or at least his daughter says that.) So the title of your article is simply wrong. I don't know your background really, but it seems like you are out to show that Cheney is wrong when you actually end up demonstrating that he has been substantively right, although not well-advised on press strategy
- Professario
May 19, 2009 at 1:01pm
Mr. Goldsmith: Weren't you one of the officials who said that "waterboarding" was ok under the conditions the CIA was using? If I recall, you had some objections about certain memos, but agreed that the program could go forward anyway with appropriate safeguards in place. Is that right?
- Legal comment
May 19, 2009 at 1:03pm
I'm always amused by lefties defending the horrific spending of Obama by complaining about Bush's spending. You assume that as a conservatives we approved of Bush's spending, most of us did not. In fact we strongly disapproved everytime Bush acted like a liberal, which pretty much sums up his domestic policies. I find your objections like a child who when caught abusing the family cat with an axe, complains that they once saw their older brother kick the poor beast.
- Flyfish
May 19, 2009 at 1:06pm
Didn't Lincoln suspend habeas corpus and FDR institute concentration camps? Yikes.
- tara hollingsworth
May 19, 2009 at 1:17pm
Karen: Let me get this straight: The "right-winger", "nutty assholes" don't deserve a public airing of their views because they are angry and intolerant? Seems like sound logic to me. Umm...hypocritical much? Got to go, my brown shirt just came out of the laundry.
- Joe Said
May 19, 2009 at 1:56pm
This is hilarious. By saying Cheney is wrong about Obama continuing and expanding Bush's strategy, you're saying Bush is right. The key here is the "BUSH WAS RIGHT. " For all the catchphrases during the election, he is adopting almost every premise that the Bush administration used to fight terror. Even his promise to close down Gitmo has been re-thought and quietly scuttled.
- jwl2672
May 19, 2009 at 1:57pm
Angry? That's a funny. I don't see anybody else calling someone an a$$hole except you. That seems kind of angry. And you're right. Many of Bush's policies were populist/socialist. But you're completely looney if you think FDR saved this country from them. He instituted them. Plus, how can Obama save us from Bush's populist/socialist policies when he's so busy implementing his own populist/socialist policies? Finally, maybe you need to work on your own tolerance. You can start by not calling people a$$holes.
- bosswang
May 19, 2009 at 2:18pm
"You right wingers are nutty assholes who don't deserve a public airing and your views are completely out of touch with reality... You would be humorous, if you weren't so frightening and so counter to American ideals of tolerance, progress and liberty." Clearly Ms. Andrews, you're a tolerant individual. Forgive us for having an opposing viewpoint to the article, and your views. We don't speak in anger - we just are amused with the tortured logic presented here. Cheney has argued that Obama has been changing Bush policy that kept us safe since 9/11. While Obama has in fact been changing his campaign rhetoric and early pronouncements, that clearly proves Cheney is wrong?! And now because Obama is using "prettier packaging" it will make these expanded presidential powers more palatable to congress and the courts?! Certainly seems to have gotten the required pass from the media. Last - you're view: Obama will once again save this country from populist-socialist tendencies just like FDR did..."? Perhaps there is a logic for your point of view somewhere, but on planet earth, it's hard to follow. Obama is proposing to spend more money than every single president before him COMBINED on social programs. He didn't inherit budget mess - he's been perfectly able on his own to create it. He's not saving us from anything socialist, but leading us down the path of no-return.
- SFMike
May 19, 2009 at 2:29pm
DOJCOLLEAGUE...thanks for a good post. Saves me a lot of wrighting. It is much easier to wordsmith and make minor adjustments than to make the vital decisions under pressure. You have to give VP Cheney credit, we wouldn't be having all this name calling and debate if the Dems didn't realize he is right on. BTW,he also hasn't told us where he was hiding after 9/11. Just maybe, they should keep Biden away from the bar at these events. Loose lips sink ships.
- OMGRON
May 19, 2009 at 2:31pm
Uh, Karen, I think you are the angry one.
- the_calm_one
May 19, 2009 at 2:50pm
karen, are you being serious, or is my sarcasm detector broken?
- Steve
May 19, 2009 at 2:56pm
Please ignore 13 and 14 - until then the discussion was interesting. Stated point of the article: Cheney's complaints that the new administration is radically weakening our defense does not line up with the current facts and are therefore unjustified. I think that you demonstrated the policies haven't really changed that much, but in order to make the case you need to show that it was not a result of Cheney's complaints. But in some readings of this, you've made a pretty good case that the administration has changed due in part to the public sentiment driven by Cheney's complaints. This is entertaining but not important. In a more important light, you don't see Obama as significantly increasing the power of the President. When has the President ever unilaterally dismissed the CEO of a major private company? When has the President ever attempted to usurp bankruptcy court jurisdiction? These are huge and unprecedented increases in Presidential powers. I don't see how you can describe the current administration as not increasing the power of the Executive. That's the more important thing to see in this article.
- mnemos
May 19, 2009 at 3:34pm
Please try harder to avoid being a poster child for Stupid People Don't Get Obama.
- Bob Crispen
May 19, 2009 at 4:11pm
Wandrey, I'm on the road, so responding late. Glad to see Mr. Goldsmith on board with me. Obama's policies are (in the main) the policies on the GWOT that that nasty W had. If we had a media who could say something more than "Ooh, isn't he dreamy" regarding the new President, more people might understand that. Along those same lines, the REAL news out of the meeting with Bibi was Obama's comment that talks with Iran had better start bearing some fruit by year's end, or.... Imagine, the One can charm the Western press, but not the mullahs, who are telling him - as they told the EU-3 and GWB, to go p*ss up a rope.
- butchie b
May 19, 2009 at 5:37pm
Jack... Nope you have it wrong...Your obamation cannot hand out important documents to our the beheaders...cant do that..not good for America..
- jg
May 19, 2009 at 5:37pm
How can you simultaneaously state that a group does not deserve public airing while preaching tolerance? This seems like a contradiction to me - please explain
- JC
May 19, 2009 at 6:12pm
If anything, at least I walk away from this article re-assured that, the Presidency is at least not in the hands of drooling, knuckle-walking, deluded incompetents.
- roy
May 19, 2009 at 7:06pm
Holy crow... the paleocons are on the prowl. It is so funny to read that few of you read Jack Goldsmith's bio at the end of the piece. But why get to the end when you know all the answers in advance. The writer is the former assistant atty general in the Bush administration a Hoover scholar, not exactly a lefty reporter. The point of the article is to get beyond the Obama-good/Obama-bad routine and see the surprising continuity in the security policies of both presidents. Lighten up, folks.
- JD
May 19, 2009 at 7:42pm
So in other words, if most of Bush policies remained intact, repackaged or tweaked a bit, Obama is simply a better salesman, and that I would agree wholeheartedly. He's a closer, man can he sell!
- JM_slsmrktng
May 19, 2009 at 8:06pm
A strong article, but it leaves out an important aspect of these issues. It points out the legitimate reasons people objected to Bush administration policies around torture, detention and the war, but it neglects a central aspect of the politics involved: the Democrats, in trying to recover the executive branch, exaggerated their criticisms and demonized the administration. So it should be no surprise that when the Democrats recovered the executive branch, they ended up adopting policies only slightly different from those of the Bush administration. In other words, the Democrats to some degree sacrificed honest national security debate on the altar of achieving the White House. And the same political games with national security are what we see now from Nancy Pelosi, apparently, at least if Leon Panetta, Obama's head of CIA, is to be believed. I do not mean to underrate the points made by the article about how the Bush administration's rhetoric was flawed. I only wanted to bring in another aspect.
- traeh
May 19, 2009 at 8:45pm
I agree Butchie - I've always leaned right on FP anyway, so all of this (except torture) seems reasonable to me. I just look forward to someone doing it right and with competence finally. Yes I do think Obama's the guy to pull it off - mostly from timing, temperment and our country ready to perhaps be realistic and grown-up about outcomes, timeframes? One can hope. I'm honestly grateful to Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2 (not Cheney, a terribly incompetent boob) for their attempts to reign this Islamic fundamentalist mess in, mistakes and all. They all did their best. And as far as the Obama being beloved - he is most welcome to rebuild credibility and soft power however he can.
- WandreyCer1
May 19, 2009 at 9:08pm
So if Obama has left Bush's policies in place is Bush now brilliant or is the Messiah an idiot? Seems its always easy to have answers when you are accountable for nothing like Obama was.
- Ed
May 19, 2009 at 9:39pm
Karen, Hmmm, Bush era consumption and debt is bad for us but spending and borrowing more in a year than Bush did in 8 is good for us???? War on science?? Look up "induced pluripotent stem cells" and, if you can understand it, see the inferiority of embryonic stem cell work (so brilliantly reintroduced by the present administration nearly 2 years after it became an insignificant secondary approach. As for the anger thing, I think I will just encourage you to look up Godwin's law, while I contemplate the odd incongruity of sore winners.
- RRD
May 20, 2009 at 12:03am
The fact that someone using the web handle "DOJ Colleague" could respond to Goldsmith's piece by saying this: "I think that shows he [Cheney] is doing exactly the right thing, and should continue that effort to prevent additional backsliding" tells us everything we need to know about the Cheney Justice Department/Stasi Enabling Agency. Mr. Colleague, I do so hope there is a hell so that you can eventually rot in it.
- Peter Principle
May 20, 2009 at 1:12am
They aren't called the Dims for nothing.
- Dimslie
May 20, 2009 at 2:59am
JD -- The writer used to be a Bush Administration person but had internal disputes with the administration and departed angrily. He supported the legality of most if not all of the enhanced techniques identified in the news as far as I know (I wasn't in the loop back then), but not all of the OLC rationales justifying them.
- historian
May 20, 2009 at 6:38am
Alexi, I guess this wasn't much different than FDR guiding us into WWII or Truman's reasons for dropping the two bombs on Japan and killing hundreds of thousands of civilians...
- Dave
May 20, 2009 at 10:04am
Historian, agreed. The fellow wasn't Cheney's favorite guy. Nevertheless, a lefty reporter-researcher he ain't (as many of the posters seem to believe). The fact that he wrote this article pretty-much approving of this policy continuity shows why he has his name on a door (I'm assuming) at Hoover. His beef with the Bushies wasn't per se with what they were doing in toto, its that they were doing it illegally. Which is perhaps the subtext of this whole article. I'm sure he's not viewed as a team player for what he did by his conservative buds. He's now attempting to showing that he was in the right all along.
- JD
May 20, 2009 at 12:52pm
I think, with the pendulum swinging back towards equilibrium, which always eventually happens, that normal-thinking people who love this country will perhaps once again get a hearing, which in reality is all they need, because we're absolutley right. But in 120 days I don't expect a miracle.
- roy
May 20, 2009 at 1:01pm
"Mistaken intelligence", my ass! Bush lied. He deliberately started the war in Iraq on false pretenses. No matter how much Obama may disappoint, he'll never stoop that low.
- me
May 20, 2009 at 2:59pm
This article was just stupid. More Bush apologetics. I'm sick of that already, and it's only been three months.
- me
May 20, 2009 at 3:04pm
Wandrey, your honesty is refreshing. Yes, they all have tried, however imperfectly. I do tire of all the anti-W crap hereabouts in fp, when the One is merely continuing W's policies in the main. I still believe the media (Fox excepted) is in love with Obama. Give it until Labor Day, when it will be apparent that the stimulus hasn't stimulated - where is all the construction activity for all those "shovel-ready" projects I heard so much about - and that the feds can't run car companies any better than they can fix K-12 education. Took W 7 years to run up 1.8 trillion in debt. Obama will do it in 1. hats off to him.
- butchie b
May 20, 2009 at 3:34pm
Did Drudge Report or some right wing web site link to this article? I didn't realize TNR readership had become so reactionary...
- Rich
May 20, 2009 at 4:53pm
Wandry - if you think automobile manufacturing is a money losing proposition, well, war is much worse.
- roy
May 20, 2009 at 6:03pm
I'd hate to have you as my attorney. This is no argument for Obama moving forward. It IS more a litany of the reasons democrats, such as myself, are suffering great consternation over his perpetuation of the bush policies of lawlessness and rights abuses.
- Chris Ostrom
May 20, 2009 at 6:24pm
"His beef with the Bushies wasn't per se with what they were doing in toto, its that they were doing it illegally." - He didn't say that, did he? He said that Bush made the mistake of not marketing the same policies in the right way. Read the article.
- Grimmy
May 21, 2009 at 2:22pm
Actually (as a conservative) I thought the article was pretty balanced. The author is saying that Bush's policies, excoriated by the left and Obama, are now seen to be necessary - the only diff is the packaging. It's actually quite damaging to Obama and his worshipers, since it makes him (and them) out to be naifs about the war on terror, only learning and understanding now what Bush knew back then. I would urge my fellow cons not to emulate the left in their nastiness and puerility.
- Grimmy
May 21, 2009 at 2:27pm
Obama sold left wingers a big fat lie during the campaign. Said his administration would be a dramatic departure from Bush on national defense issues. Hah!
- erasmus
May 21, 2009 at 4:38pm
Lots of confusion here about the characterizations of Packaging, etc. Is it not more a case of being seen to be seeking a consensus on the need to implement certain policies, and to be attempting to do so within a framework that most people would recognized as "legal"? Being seen to be thoughtful, and not just the "decider".
- me
May 22, 2009 at 2:40am
"I would urge my fellow cons not to emulate the left in their nastiness and puerility." I disagree. It was the insincere political opportunism dripping with nastiness and puerility that won the left the elections. Either the Republcans will fight fire with fire or die. .....or maybe out of control inflation and suffocating interest rates will save them.
- Dan
May 22, 2009 at 3:21am
Same turd, different color.
- steerpike
May 22, 2009 at 5:07am
Why are people so thick? There are three policies here: 1. The Cheney Policy 2001-2003, over the line 2. The Bush Policy 2004-2008, improved the Cheney Policy immensely, but still had one BIG problem: diverting attention from Al-Qaeda in order to go after Saddam. THAT is what Obama meant by Bush's policies making us less safe. 3. The Obama Policy - a tweaking/slight improvement of the Bush Policy. REMEMBER: Most people never believed that Bush's own anti-terror policy was such a bad thing. IT WAS THE IRAQ WAR that was the real policy nightmare. Had we never invaded, and instead kept our eye on the ball/Bin Laden, very few people would have ever complained about GTMO, wiretapping, etc. It's mostly about credibility and Cheney has/had NONE, Bush salvaged a little by the end, and Obama will finish the job. It's truly absurd to think Obama doesn't recognize the danger Al-Qaeda poses. That's why he's pulling out of Iraq and going after them in AfPak.
- mike
May 22, 2009 at 10:22am
The American people need the Cheney family to go back to Wyoming and count all their money. By the way, if the former VP cannot be more tolerant of Mr. Obama we should revoke his retirement income. He doesn't need it anyway.
- Rich Kaufmann
May 22, 2009 at 10:37am
read Angling. nuff said
- randyb
May 22, 2009 at 1:37pm
Grimmy, I should note that I'm not saying the article say anything about illegality of Bush policies. The reason why we are paying any attention to Goldsmith at all is due to the fact that he resisted illegality within the Bush admin, despite his conservative bonafides. No flaming liberal, this guy. From Wikipedia: According to Goldsmith, one consequence of OLC's "power to interpret the law is the power to bestow on government officials what is effectively an advance pardon for actions taken at the edges of vague criminal statutes." Goldsmith resigned after 9 months. Some claimed that he resigned after a failed attempt to moderate what he considered the constitutional excesses of the legal policies embraced by his White House superiors in the war on terror. This article is a nice "I told you so." He liked how things turned out after the excesses of the early years were moderated. That part is pretty clear in the article.
- JD
May 22, 2009 at 2:25pm
I found this article quite enlightening. Early Bush and late Bush were actually quite different. We actually knew this, but the administration didn't communicate this well as Goldsmith points out. Cheney eventually lost his influence. He created this mess. No one in the later half of the Bush Administration could ever admit the earlier efforts were misconceived, or even needed to be changed, but they did make important changes. This article absolutely does not vindicate Cheney, but it surely explains why it is difficult to clean up this mess. Cheney's authoritarian view of the world created a big mess that sullied much of the Bush administration from the beginning. That Bush was a weak leader only made it worse.
- Steve
May 22, 2009 at 2:28pm
What all of you happy fascists that are crowing "Bussh was Right" seem to forget is that your own presidential candidate last Fall agreed with Obama that torture is wrong, as do all of the European countries that he supposedly is trying to placate. Old "Shoot 'em in the Face" Cheny's aim with his mouth isn't any more acccurate than his aim with a shotgun.
- Tom Loughran
May 22, 2009 at 2:48pm
"Obama and his left-wing wacko friends want a disarmed, socialist, terrorist coddling, bankrupt USA." The only substantive difference between the above and Dr. Seuss' material is the latter is infinitely more entertaining -- and doesn't purport to be informed debate.
- TGlide
May 22, 2009 at 2:49pm
It does not matter that Congress asserts that this nation is at war, nor does it matter that the Supreme Court backs this assertion. The Constitution of The United States makes clear we are not at war. Congress alone may make a formal declaration of war. It has not done so, and the passage of the War Powers Act is not the equivalent of a formal declaration. Indeed, it is a cowardly act of abdication of responsibility. The incursions into Afghanistan and Iraq have have no relevance with respect to the pursuit of Al-Qaeda. That is a pathetic attempt at nation building, with the side benefit of some fine cash rewards for war profiteers. Al-Qaeda is no more than a gang of thugs, ignorant zealots, and cannon fodder to advance the unstated goals of Osama bin Laden and his power-hungry lackeys. They are criminals and should be pursued to the ends of the earth, with the full cooperation of all nations with law enforcement capabilities. The world is simply too small to allow criminals who have an utter disregard for life to roam freely. "The War on Terror" is a straw man. Your local police are charged with keeping drunk drivers off the road. Drunk drivers are terrorists. Murderers and rapists are terrorists. Al-Qaeda is no different.
- Dave Walker
May 22, 2009 at 3:28pm
Most of the criticisms here--that the current similarities between the Obama and Bush administrations are proof that Cheney is right--seem to have missed the entire first part of the article, in which the author clearly makes a distinction between Bush policy in the first 2 to 3 years after 9/11 (during which Cheney's philosophy was king) and in the years to follow, in Bush's second term, when a more measured foreign policy was adopted (much to Cheney's chagrin). The point of the article is that if Cheney has a bone to pick with anyone, it's with Bush II, who rolled back most of the extreme measures that Cheney continues to argue for. More of what Cheney sought to uphold was lost after Bush and other administration were able to make more measured judgments after the smoke was cleared than after Obama decided to close GTMO and repeal waterboarding just recently. This is the gist of the article. Cheney is still picking a fight that was lost in the White House before Obama even occupied it.
- Scarzo in Chicago
May 22, 2009 at 3:42pm
Targeted killing is another Bush administration policy being continued, and indeed ramped up, by President Obama. The new administration has used unmanned predator drones to kill suspected al Qaeda targets in Afghanistan and Pakistan at a greater rate than the Bush administration. These more aggressive targeted killings have predictably caused more collateral damage to innocent civilians. In what appears to be the worst episode since 9/11, a predator attack earlier this month killed many dozens of civilians, including many women and children, in the Farah province of Afghanistan. The targeted killing policy has grown very controversial in Afghanistan and among human rights groups. What's going on here? The air strikes in Farah were an attempt to kill Taliban forces during a battle, not a targeted killing of specific individuals. As far as I know the bombing at Farah was carried out with conventional manned aircraft; I haven't seen any reports that Predators were used. My understanding is that drones are exclusively being used in Pakistan these days--notice that the article you link to only mentions Pakistan. You're conflating targeted conventional air strikes in Afghanistan with targeted killings using drones in Pakistan.
- a
May 22, 2009 at 3:51pm
This analysis, while largely correct, states the obvious, but along partisan lines to make the point that Obama isn't much different from W. Like saying "See, he uses the armed forces to fight terrorists, just like Bush. Nothing has changed it's just prettier packaging." But it's silly to presume that Obama was going to change the entire anti-terror apparatus that Bush developed. The problem with W/Cheney is their message was the rule of law as an inconvenience to be avoided. In doing so, they appeared to be justifying a kind dictatorship with 2 men at the top making all the decisions thereby repudiating our core principles. They compounded their error, and public distrust, by using the extraordinary powers to further their domestic political agenda.
- Lou
May 23, 2009 at 7:47am
Quote: It narrowed the scope of those who can be detained from persons who "support" al Qaeda and its affiliates to persons who "substantially support" them... Narrowed how? Under the old policy, support was required; under the new only "substantially support" is required. The latter can reasonably be read to include indirect, even unintentional, support, because the adverb modifies the verb. It is very different than saying "support to a substantial effect" where the verb's object is declared to be substantial. If you ask your son if he took out the trash and he answers "substantially," you can figure that it is still in the house.
- Rob
May 23, 2009 at 7:59am
Your comments are well thought out and helpful. Moderate is the best description. The black and white thinking of most of the above bloggers is not helpful and self serving.
- ed of sc
May 23, 2009 at 10:08am
Alexi has it right, they lied us into a war, killed thousands of kids and are trying to bend history. I guess this is hard to swallow.
- NR040966
May 23, 2009 at 10:42am
The policies effectively are largely the same because they end up having to deal with the same day-to-day realities. You cannot issue these killers a gun and send them back out. I disagree that moving prisoners from GTMO to the US is a continuation. I like the isolation of GTMO. Sending trainers into American prisons to further recruit people is just plain stupid. As to the "packaging", I think Mr Cheney would tell you that the packaging is merely consumed here at home. It is also consumed in Pakistan. Waterboarding isn't torture. We didn't roundup people to waterboard on friday nights and waterboard them willy-nilly. We used it three times on people who participated in the killings of thousands and the beheading of one. We also use it on thousands of our own troops in order to train them. Putting the torture label on this technique, divides us thereby providing succor to the enemy. It was done not because the rabid haters of Bush/Cheney politically demanded it, but because Mr Obama believes it is wrong. I do not agree with him. I think it was used appropriately.
- Red Redman
May 23, 2009 at 11:23am
If I understand they article you are saying that Dick and Liz Cheney are ranting and raving over nothing? It appears that Cheney is still fighting the fight he may have been losing inside the last Bush administration. Esp. since you say Obama really has not made any real policy changes.
- Tjhop
May 23, 2009 at 12:54pm
"Obama sold left wingers a big fat lie during the campaign. Said his administration would be a dramatic departure from Bush on national defense issues. Hah!" AMERCA DOES NOT TORTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GET IT APOLOGIST????????????????????
- WAdem
May 23, 2009 at 5:46pm
You all are mostly uneducated people. Have you ever heard of the expression "Symbolic Order"? Obam ais doing what he is supposed to be doing for now: Easy does it.
- Jeannnete
May 23, 2009 at 6:03pm
No one seems to recognize that the problem is not Bush or Cheney, but rather it is our defective societal system that allows one person--any person so anointed by the political system--to control the lives & property of others.
- William W Morgan
May 23, 2009 at 8:04pm
Bush and Cheney pitch Guantanamo detainees as having supernatural powers, as if they they can't be contained by ordinary prisons, and so on as an ALIBI for September 11. Bush/Cheney would have us believe they couldn't possibly have prevented 9/11 because the terrorists are MAGICALLY enabled and now after the tragedy only special neocon knowledge can combat and contain them. Except of course on September 11, 2001. Bush took an oath to defend America and didn't do it.
- Orley Allen
May 25, 2009 at 12:16pm
While Jack's background is quite impressive, my nose detects someone's backside got burned and that person has spent too much time in the court room without a few pebbles of sand in his pockets. The Obama Doctrine is demonstratably naive and simplistic to the Nth degree and to hold his policies over Cheney in light of all that has been turned 180 degrees to some sense of sanity fills a dump truck. No Mr. Goldsmith, America won't buy your agenda and all the service you've given her can be undone by your current path.
- Winghunter
June 3, 2009 at 10:22pm
Yes Jeannette, we have all heard of symbolic order yet, I believe you have never heard of a Cult of Personality...look it up.
- Winghunter
June 3, 2009 at 10:38pm
Even without the capability of shame, did that hurt??
- Winghunter
June 4, 2009 at 1:13am
Your comment is knee-jerk standard-issue right wing polemic straight from Sean Hannity. Did you not read the article? Ther is NO SUBSTANTIAL DIFFERENCE between current Obama policy and the previous administration's.
- Bruce Draken
June 10, 2009 at 11:22am
No I think you've missed the point. Not that Obama is moving towards but rather, in essence, he hasn't moved away from previous positions. Rather VP Cheney is tossing red herrings out there that (as typical of his style) broad assertions, far from the truth.
- Jshaf
June 15, 2009 at 5:09pm