TEL AVIV JOURNAL MAY 5, 2011
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It was already deep into Yom Hashoah, the day that Israel had designated some 60 years ago as the time to memorialize the Jewish catastrophe perpetrated by the Nazis, when news leaked out and then was corroborated by President Obama that Osama bin Laden had been killed in a secured mansion hide-out in Pakistan, actually not far from the country’s capital. Apparently, the mansion was not secured nearly enough: The intelligence and defense forces of the United States had located it eight months before, and it was over that period that the United States—yes, the U.S. alone—had mobilized and meticulously carried out the operation that brought this long sought after mass murderer to justice. We should also not misrepresent and deceive ourselves about the manner in which the ultimate penalty was achieved. This was a “targeted killing,” all at once reasonable, righteous, required. Given the burdens of ingenue innocence with which Obama was shackled from the campaign, it was a brave decision he made to train the administration’s sights (and quite literally his own) on bin Laden’s very life.
My guess is, moreover, that no one will be honing in at the Navy Seals for cuts in the defense budget. Or at the technology which allowed the president to watch just as bin Laden was being shot in the head. The fact is that our country is the defender of civilized societies not of “last resort” but of “only resort.” It is a burden; it is also a blessing and a privilege. We deserve much more ethical authority in the world than we are conceded, and this should right the balance. Still, it is easy to make Americans feel guilty about anything. So I hope that the revelation that bin Laden himself was unarmed when he was killed will not turn into some quibble about whether the shoot-out was a fair one. After all, no one conceived of this as a gentleman’s duel.
The sangfroid with which the Obama apparatus has handled this episode is in welcome contrast to the way the Clinton administration compromised the goal of getting bin Laden dead or alive by focusing on the artificial legalities of whether the man was a war criminal, whether we could bomb his headquarters while some royals from the United Arab Emirates were visiting (by the way, many Saudi princes visited the fugitive), whether we should shoot rockets into premises containing a mosque that might be shot up. But bin Laden was responsible, aside from other brutalities, for the bombing of the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania which took 200 lives and also for the assault on the USS Cole, with 17 dead, in the port of Aden in Yemen. Still, as several chapters of the September 11 report dealing with the prehistory of that calamity make clear, there was something both neurotic and almost comic in the finickiness of the principals about how they might hurt their prey by mistake. What about the president himself? He was otherwise engaged. Madeleine Albright, oh my, oh my, she’d have trouble explaining it to her friends. Sandy Berger, trade lawyer that he was, had a commercial solution to every dilemma. Janet Reno, I think she was concerned with whether the government could secure a guilty verdict for Osama if he came to trial. Or was that George Tenet? The silliness of it all.
Bin Laden’s prime targets were other than the Jews or, for that matter, the State of Israel. He had larger objectives: America itself, the world’s democracies, science, even Christianity, schismatic Muslims, many as jihadist as he. But Jewry and the Jewish nation have a special place in the poisoned hearts of his Muslim followers and in the hearts of many who aren’t quite his followers. So the redemption of Zion is a fact that nags at those who live angrily with their own cultural self-humiliation, rebukes them, haunts them. How could it be, they may ask themselves, that nearly 80 percent of the 7.5 million Jews in occupied Europe (and others elsewhere) were murdered and yet the promise of Jerusalem—their own third holiest blah blah—in the broadest sense has been fulfilled?
Nazism was the first ideology in modernity to aim at killing an entire civilization, Jewish civilization. The Turks, after all, were content to murder the Armenians on their own turf. Not so the Germans. Make no mistake about it. Almost no one wished to recognize that somber fact. The shabby excuses for why the Roosevelt administration refused to bomb the rail lines to Auschwitz (it would make it seem too much like a war for the Jews which, Lord knows, it wasn’t) make this clear. The genocidal ambitions still live. But certainly not in Europe. For nearly a decade the Reich disguised its ultimate intentions for the Jews. Dr. Ahmadinejad has no such tricks in his hat. He is as plain as day, and is an applauded figure at Columbia University, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the General Assembly. Something else has changed. In fact, there are two features of the world that were not present when the terrible homicide of the Jews occurred. The first is that there is a Jewish state.
This Jewish state literally rescued and paid ransom for at least two million Jews who would otherwise have disappeared. From the Soviet Union, from Poland, from Rumania, from Ethiopia, from Argentina, from other little pockets here, there, everywhere. Of course, another million, maybe more from the Arab countries earlier on in Israel’s history. There is a place for Jews to go, a place that is their own, their home. But this place is also a temptation to the new genocidalists who happen also to be candid genocidalists. One percent of the Jewish population of Palestine was killed in the War of Independence. Those are added to the Jewish nakba of less than half a decade earlier, except that this time the Jews (just like the Arabs) had guns.
Now more than guns. And no, not just nuclear weapons of their own. But, more important, an ingrown scientific temperament and its extraordinary consequences which produced a technological universe of defense and assault. Be assured that this is shared with the United States, as the U.S. shares many of its innovations with Israel. I’ve heard—I do not know—that every helmet on every American soldier includes a component contrived by Israeli military engineering. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to learn that, aside from the work done at Siemens and the Idaho National Laboratory, some team of Israelis made the happy match between Stuxnet and Iranian centrifuges. Mazal tov.
The new parameters of war—to take care not to attack innocents, which was hardly a consideration by either the Axis or Allied countries during the Second World War—are quite scrupulously adhered to by Western military establishments, especially including Israel. But, while “underdog” fighters often employ quite sophisticated technologies, they have no compunctions about killing at random. Often without specific targets, like Hamas against Israel.
Or, as has been apparent these last three months in sequential bloodlettings in the Arab world, the very states of Libya, Syria, Bahrain, Yemen. To say nothing of a motley assortment of butchers in Pakistan and Afghanistan, some official, mostly not.
Osama bin Laden brought this butchery to America, and he spooked the American people for nearly a decade. His ghostly and ghastly presence in the shadows of time and geography had transformed him into an ubermensch, at least to those millions (and more millions) who saw the mass murderer as a message and messenger of the Prophet. I myself had seen in several places over the Muslim world, in stalls and booths lining bazaars and even in book shops, the long wiry hatchet face that did not look you in the eye. (Verso Books, the publisher which puts out every nasty revolutionary idea for which assistant professors contrive arcane theories, had gathered Osama’s Messages to the World into print, and likely it will have a macabre new run in the wake of his death.) Still, in some places, many places, the violent seer remains the incarnation of hate-filled hope, not just by some wretched of the earth but also those pampered Arabs who contributed to his till.
In his dignified address to the nation and the world, the president cut him down to size. But he was no pollyanna. Osama is dead. His movement, not entirely one movement, in any event, still lives and may be reinvigorated by the resentments of his followers and hangers-on. Nonetheless, this episode will surely help Obama’s political standing, and Republicans will be hard-put to fault him on the facts. His predecessor, George Bush, made a gracious statement which was probably heartfelt, as well. We are all more liberated now, and this lift from fear was also experienced in Israel as Holocaust memorial ceremonies drew to a close and the news sunk in that bin Laden was no more.
Yet there were a few elements in Obama’s address that trouble me. It’s not exactly that he iterated and reiterated, as he has been doing since the start of his presidency, that “the United States is not and never will be at war with Islam ... our war is not with Islam.” No one wants a war with the Muslim religion or with the Muslim world. No one and certainly no American ... except maybe the crazy Florida pastor who, with his flock, puts the flame to the Koran. Obama reverts to his trope so often that it seems, at least to me, that he is trying to convince himself that there is no space between Islam and the USA.
Obama pointedly observed that “Bin Laden was not a Muslim leader. He was a mass murderer of Muslims.” True enough. But then one wonders why, in societies that take easily to the streets, there were no demonstrations against his faithful and those who organize them for suicide and killing. Am I wrong? Was there even one? Please tell me if I am wrong.
I do not care that the president failed to place this intricate military operation within the context of Bush’s “war on terror.” Bush had his vanity. Obama has his. We go on.
But Obama is certainly among those few who almost tactilely experience the politics of the Muslim faith in Pakistan. Yes, there are also tribal differences. But Islam is a great motivator. After all, it’s what motivated the Pakistani nuclear scientist A.Q. Khan to provide Iran and Libya (plus North Korea) with atomic materials and intelligence. Alas, Pakistan is also less an ally against Muslim terrorism than its protector. Steven Lee Myers and Jane Perlez have written a story in today’s New York Times about the deceptions practiced by the country’s intelligence elites against American efforts to close down terrorism in the country. After bin Laden was killed, “the Pakistani government issued a defiant statement calling the raid that killed the Al Qaeda leader ‘an unauthorized unilateral action.’” That’s an ally for you. No one has ever really come clean about Pakistan.
The Washington Post has an astute column by Richard Cohen which states precisely the president’s predicament with one of his Muslim allies. (The other Muslim allies pose similar predicaments, poor man: Turkey, for instance.)
He seized the spotlight, as he did the moment, offering us a crescendo of the word ‘I’—’I directed’ and ‘I was briefed’ and ‘I met repeatedly’ and ‘I determined.’ But what he did not mention was that he decided to go it alone. Our nominal allies in the fight for Afghanistan, the unreliable and unpredictable Pakistanis, were kept in the dark. Their sovereignty was violated, they lost face, and the United States, as a consequence, lost some cover. It cannot be said that Osama was killed by another Muslim. A martyr has been made.
For too long now the Obama administration has shown a touching but sometimes counterproductive sensitivity for the sensitivities of the Muslim world. It has proceeded as if it was more important to be liked than to be feared and as if some differences were not fundamental but always a product of misunderstanding.
I’m going to repeat Cohen’s meaningful last phrase: “as if some differences were not fundamental but always a product of misunderstanding.” And then Cohen continues.
This is not the case. The US can do little to mollify Islamists and others who seek the obliteration of Israel and the return of holy Jerusalem to the Muslim fold. It can do little with bigots who loathe America’s culture of tolerance.
We shall see if the killing of Osama signals the emergence of a new Obama.
It was as if Obama thought he could charm these guys, reason with them—that their antipathy toward him was based on some sort of misunderstanding and not, as it was and remains, their ideology.
Obama attempted something similar with Iran. He wanted accommodation, less belligerence. They know very well who we are, and we should know who they are. The same holds for Syria.
This is devastating. By the way, does Obama still want Israel to relinquish the Golan Heights to Assad which, of course, might strengthen him? Or to wait until the Muslim Brotherhood comes to power when Assad falls?
And now Obama faces “Palestine.” It is a new Palestine, to be run (if a phantom can truly be run) by a reunion of Fatah (or the Palestinian Authority) and Hamas, a certified terror organization which was sired by the Muslim Brothers of Egypt. Bin Laden’s is not a popular death. After all, he had brought cheer from Jenin to Gaza after September 11, as he had in every Arab state and the tiniest and wealthiest principality. No sooner had Mahmoud Abbas and Ismail Haniyah announced their organizational nuptials—an occasion on which Obama has not yet commented—than the Gazan “prime minister” denounced the assassination of a “holy warrior.” Why should he not have? They were both practitioners of random and mass death terrorism.
Bin Laden’s killing is arguably the most daring and difficult undertaking executed by the administration. Should it now accede to one of his acolytes sharing power and extending the dominion of stealth and death? If it does we will look back on this achievement as a sham.
Martin Peretz is editor-in-chief emeritus of The New Republic.
Follow @tnr on Twitter.
41 comments
"their own third holiest blah blah" - I can only imagine how up in arms you would be if someone in a major US news or commentary organization similarly made light of one of the tenets of Judaism - or if a Muslim source did the same for a tenet of Christianity. Your prejudice stinks.
- floydsm8
May 5, 2011 at 3:37am
And the fact that TNR publishes it, and that your fellow TNR writers let it go by without objection, stinks worse.
- floydsm8
May 5, 2011 at 3:38am
Even by the standards of Martin Peretz that was a rambling, shambling mess. Like most of his published excretions, Mr Peretz's column can easily be shrunk down to three points: 1] The Jews are the most super-awesomest people on Earth; 2] U.S. Mideast foreign policy must be made in Jerusalem or the Nazis win; 3] The U.S. owes its very existence to Israel. Next time, TNR, just save the space and paste those three points under Mr Peretz's byline.
- DC Spence
May 5, 2011 at 7:52am
>>Given the burdens of ingenue innocence with which Obama was shackled from the campaign, it was a brave decision he made to train the administration’s sights (and quite literally his own) on bin Laden’s very life. The burdens of ingenue innocence? President Obama has been steady and steely in his determination to kill Obama from the start. Have you seen the clips, shown repeatedly here at home, of the campaign debate with McCain. Obama was prescient in saying that if we had actionable intelligence that Bin Laden was in Pakistan, we'd act on it and go in and get him, even if we had to go it alone. As it played out almost 3 years later. Contrast that with his befuddled old opponent's reponse - both patronizing and Grampa Simponesque in its clarity. First he lectured Obama on the realities of statecraft - "You can't do that. You can't just declare war on Pakistan" and then wondered around the stage muttering that "I know how to get bin Laden. My friends". I'm surprised that McCain didn't declare he'd tie an onion to his belt and go down to Shelbyville. All I can say I'm glad that it was President Obama and not McCain and the Sage of Wasilla in the Situation Room this past weekend.
- dubyadoubte
May 5, 2011 at 9:22am
http://www.memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/2912.htm "Following are excerpts from a eulogy for Osama Bin Laden at the Al-Aqsa Mosque, which aired on the Internet on May 2, 2011: Preacher: Today, the dogs of the West are rejoicing at the killing of one of the lions of Islam. Today, the West rejoices at the killing of one of the lions of Islam. We say to them, from the Al-Aqsa Mosque, from the heart of the Caliphate, which, Allah willing, is soon to come: Dogs should not rejoice at the killing of lions. A country of dogs will always remain a country of dogs, while a lion remains a lion even after it is killed. [...] We will not forget all the crimes being committed by these American dogs in all the Muslim countries. [...] Even if a lion is killed, the nation of one billion Muslims will give birth to hundreds of millions of lions. [...] We say [to Obama]: You said yourself that you personally gave the order to kill Muslims. Know that the day will soon come when you find yourself hanging from the gallows, next to little Bush, and next to all your cronies involved in the killing of Muslims. "
- noga1
May 5, 2011 at 10:23am
"It was as if Obama thought he could charm these guys, reason with them—that their antipathy toward him was based on some sort of misunderstanding and not, as it was and remains, their ideology." There is the nubbins. There is so much more to say on this pivotal. This dishonest seed has been allowed to flourish into some very strange ways. Though rest assured that Obama is by no means alone in holding this wishful conceit. To the contrary he is simply one of the more important and powerful players representing this symbolic rationale. Trying to ratify a half baked universalism of this flavor is doomed to disappointment and failure. Don't get me wrong. I support our president and think that he is a good and decent man. I am well with most all of the important things that have demand his attentions while in the Oval Office. He is a smart guy and his instincts are well directed. I suspect his ingenue-ity has been braced and reconsidered by the realities of his office. May the Good Lord keep him in favor. Marty wasn't out of bounds in this piece. Piling up certain assumptions will color perceptions accordingly.
- jacko
May 5, 2011 at 11:12am
I actually felt that this article was better written than the last few he published. Beware the analogy peddlers like floydsm8 who says: "their own third holiest blah blah" - I can only imagine how up in arms you would be if someone in a major US news or commentary organization similarly made light of one of the tenets of Judaism -or if a Muslim source did the same for a tenet of Christianity. Your prejudice stinks." Floyd didn't understand a word in this piece. He certainly didn't get the main thrust of the article. Prejudice takes many forms and the one Floyd exhibits is the commonest: a refusal to read empathetically. I guess when it comes to Jewish concerns Floyd can only digest these issues thrugh the lens of misplaced analogies.
- arnon
May 5, 2011 at 11:56am
Oh dear, it seems that Uncle Marty has shit himself again. As for his fan club: Yes Jacko, I understand how proud you must be of Obama. After all, he is such a "good and decent man." In fact, this naive boy is so "smart," he ended up president, gosh darn it. Even though he's got a whole lot to learn, I'm glad he's making you proud. Silly me, I would have assumed that a man with his resume might just have a pretty good idea of what he's doing. And arnon, this is so easy, I'm almost ashamed to say it, but I have to admire your balls. I will of course endeavour to read more empathetically henceforth. Now, help me out here, what exactly is in Marty's heart when he describes Jerusalem as "their own third holiest blah blah?"
- bunthorne
May 5, 2011 at 12:56pm
Who gives a monkey's f**k what the preacher in the Al-Aqsa Mosque says!
- ironyroad
May 5, 2011 at 1:02pm
Martin has some good points here. I'm a little taken aback at the last paragraph -- it's not very kind to praise a man for his actions, then demand more killing or this one is "a sham". Sure, if the Taliban gets a new head who is effective, he becomes a target. There's no need to make nasty assumptions about it beforehand.
- AllanL5
May 5, 2011 at 1:05pm
always a great read from Mr. Peretz, I welcome everything he writes. Keep it coming!
- yves45
May 5, 2011 at 1:15pm
Yep, killing Bin Laden is nice and all, but it will all be for nought if we make Israel give up Ariel to the Arabs!
- wildboy
May 5, 2011 at 1:35pm
ironyroad "Who gives a monkey's f**k what the preacher in the Al-Aqsa Mosque says!" That "preacher" is not without influence and those on the receiving end of his hatred care. This is to say those on the receiving end in the Middle East can't afford to be glibly dismissive as can a comfortable poster in the US. Ironic, isn't it?
- arnon
May 5, 2011 at 1:58pm
Did Peretz say that he wants Israel to keep Ariel? You are a dumb ass trying to be clever, WB.
- nr106646
May 5, 2011 at 2:07pm
Hey bunthorne. I'm just wondering what it is I said that's getting your goat. That is assuming sarcasm is your modus. Do you think I'm being condescending? Just what is the niggle that tripped your trigger?
- jacko
May 5, 2011 at 2:41pm
Yet again another bs filled article from a racist, bigot. The Uebermensch is long dead, Mr. Peretz. Regardless of how many times you repeat it, G-d did not create you and what you think are "your people" as superior to other human beings. TNR: you have one of the highest standards in the publishing industry and you sink to the level of the NI by publishing this racist propaganda
- MSA70
May 5, 2011 at 2:45pm
More reactions; this time from the uber-moderate Muslim professor: http://www.facebook.com/martinkramer.page/posts/211974328826792 "Tariq Ramadan is quizzed on OBL's death and 9/11. He slips about like a bar of soap. Was killing OBL lawful? "They have the right to be tried... You bring people to justice, you don't go for killing people in such a way." Disposal of OBL's body? It was "against all the Islamic rituals." Was 9/11 plotted in Afghanistan? "We don't know. Nobody knows—even the Americans." All mixed with double-talk."
- noga1
May 5, 2011 at 2:52pm
MSA70 “The Uebermensch is long dead, Mr. Peretz.” Meaning what? Is hatred of Jews dead? You of all people should know that it isn’t since you never stopped practicing a sophisticated form of it.
- arnon
May 5, 2011 at 2:57pm
This time I have to say, regardless of the faux pas noted above, the article is not over the top - rather I think it lays out some of the problems confronting us. It's not enough to screech at Mr. Peretz or chastise him for various turns of phrase. Rather, it's important to think about the fact that we're on very unstable ground and don't know how the Arab Spring is going to work out, what will happen in Libya, Syria, Yemen and beyond; whether peace treaties will be honored, whether progressives will prevail. In Lebanon, a kind of microcosm if only in terms of complexity, the progressives are not prevailing. Rather an armed, far right wing militia, linked to Iran, is gaining in power - both within and beyond the government. They reportedly, despite the UN, have become more and more heavily armed. Has their philosophy changed? What of the Lebanese Palestinian "camps?" They are also heavily armed and unable to be Lebanese citizens; what is their philosophy? In Egypt I suspect the well-educated progressives are likely to be overwhelmed by better organized groups like MB if only because one fact: the median population is 24 and most are not highly educated. People are very poor. The religious have been growing in strength over the decades. The propaganda is extreme and has been for many years now - where is the reason, the cosmopolitan learning, the feminism, the respect for minorities and minority positions, to counter this? And, an alarming amount of popular culture seems based on perceived humiliation of Arabs by Israel, ie, Jews, which is folded into a sense of powerlessness (no jobs, no money, being young, repressive government, etc). In the past, in other times and other places, this has created a truly toxic situation and Jews have suffered enormously for it; we have become the targets, the scapegoats. In Middle Eastern propaganda we are explicitly portrayed as evil and I don't see how we will not become scapegoats once again. Now, with Fatah and Hamas making a deal - what does this mean? The US has been funding and arming and training Palestinian security forces. Egypt will open the border at Rafah with Gaza; how many weapons will flow through? Will this enable a peace treaty or a major war? Also, regarding the threats against Obama from al Quds - I think that's serious. It frightens me. In doing his duty to protect Americans and the West and others who don't want to be victims of religious extremism, our President has put himself in their sights and he is already the target of our own home grown nuts on the far right. I think he is an extremely courageous person. The other night, when he announced the death of Bin Laden, it was interesting and significant that he walked out alone and stood alone at the podium, unflanked by soldiers or advisors. This was a lonely and brave acknowledgement of leadership and responsibility and coming from a person who has given no indication that he relishes a fight, not even with Congressional Republicans, it was striking and honorable. But, he is now an object of hate. And, apart from the direct threat against Obama, the other problem with the threats from the preacher is simple: people unable to find an American, let alone our leader, are likely to blame the nearest Jew for their troubles. And there are plenty of Jews in Jerusalem. Marty is correct to point this out and I think the pundits here need to think about all the implications before attacking him and/or TNR for publishing this piece.
- Sophia
May 5, 2011 at 2:59pm
Well, look. Obviously by his actions, Obama has now more than proven his willingness to "take it" to the scary muslims. Thus, it is by his words that you and Marty eye him critically; namely his pusillanimity to suggest that it is not the stated policy of the United States to fight Islam to its last devotee. Your statement essentially said that you do not agree with his tack thus far in his approach to muslim leadership and the muslim "street." That is all well and good, and while I may have a different view of the situation, I would never begrudge anyone theirs. However, I did indeed find the tone your statement to be condescending. The neologism "ingenue-ity" (while clever) implies that Obama came into the Oval Office with a somewhat wide-eyed view of the world, which has now been hardened to the realist, cynical view that you, it just so happens, always had. Perhaps it is true that a man who chose to run for president and managed to fight and win the brutal struggle to gain that office (rather convincingly I may add) is actually a political naif with less understanding of negotiation and public relations than your average yahoo commenting on a website. I really do find that unlikely. But, then, perhaps you are not the average yahoo.
- bunthorne
May 5, 2011 at 3:09pm
I think that it is a legitimate point, at times, to suggest that someone making a statement is more protected if they are sitting in X than walking along the street in Y, and thus enabled by circumstances to say what they say. Nevertheless, if everyone has to check in their location before posting to validate their vulnerability, it will likely reduce discussion rather than opening it up. However, if we permit ourselves to once again stumble into the situation where we start quaking when some clerical demagogue with an agenda starts promising blood and revenge, we're back in the scared-of-our-own-shadow mode, which is the moment when terrorism begins to succeed in psyching us out -- as it did for a while after 9/11. This weekend, we've psyched them out. Let's not slide back. We cannot stop fundamentalist hatred from being the driving force for some people and groups, but we can do two things: we can take all appropriate security measures from the macro to the micro arena (political, diplomatic, military, intelligence), and we can refrain from responding in kind. Sophia, your point about Obama is well-taken, but one could also say that he has secret service protection while you or I don't. Some things we're just going to have to deal with as they come.
- ironyroad
May 5, 2011 at 3:18pm
bunthorne. If I'm reading between the lines of your 'scary muslims' reference it I might be forgiven if I were to assume that this is effectively your characterization of indictment to what you think is the self centered westerner, specifically, Merican who just can't get past their own fears of anything un-apple-pied and who reflect to your eyes a christian heritage. The Ugly American if you will. White Anglo Saxon Protestant Yankee Doodle Dipshits? While there are enough of those to go around I don't think it is particularly constructive to use them as a proxy and adjunct to justifying an any less rigorous exploration of human nature as applied to Islam and it adherents. Look, if people can manage to take the Christian message and enlist Jesus in their pursuit of selfish idiocy they are capable of all manner of deception and lies worthy of the fires. That there are fewer impediments to and even encouragements in pursuit of power satisfactions in Islam it does not speak particularly well to a claim of an advantaged capability to author a righteous peace. Righteousness in Islam has very specific terms the likes of which will logically run out with the last man standing. And our singular hero shouts into the wind, " Can't we all just get along?" I don't think 'taking it to' anybody is particularly virtuous. Neither do I think advisable to be pie-eyed about people and their capacities. While I can honor certain kinds of wishful thinking as being well intentioned and hopeful ( good and dignified things ) it is not a conducive for real life political problem solving. Yeah. I thought the beginning of Obama's foreign policy involvements smacked of a wishful thinking. The kind that seemed to imply that I ( Obama ) represent a new and improved America which has seen the error of its ways by virtue of electing me. I now stand before you as evidence of a melting pot of good intentions. It made me question how much he was willing to toss in to that melting pot. Some of that Yankee Doodle Dandy stuff has integrity and merit worth of surviving a meltdown. I've been fighting an urge to project and attribute to Obama with my own sympathetic sensibilities inasmuch that I voted for the guy. ie. " Surely he must be aware...blah, blah, blah and so this is why he....blah, blah, blah.... Eyes are hard things to see, especially when they are your own.... and might have pie in them. Condescension? Nope. Red, green or blue the guy is an interesting and capable politico. Of course politico comes with its own pejorative implications.
- jacko
May 5, 2011 at 5:02pm
I guess the "scary muslims" thing was a bit tossed-off. But I certainly was not using it to characterize just any old Ugly American dipshit. Really, I think the conversation here goes a bit over the head of those people you characterized above. My focus was much more narrowly on our own very singular American right here in good old Marty Peretz, and "scary muslim" is pretty much his stock-in-trade. For a man who really should know better, I think that he all too frequently descends to that level. I guess my point is that you can attack the ideas or attack the man (and I certainly don't think you're being very hard on the man.) Was Obama naive to take the tack he did? Oh, probably a little. But I don't think for a minute that he had any illusions about whom he is dealing with. I think rather that he thought as many of us did; the approach we've been using hadn't gotten us where we wanted, so let's try something else. Not just anything else, but a measured approach. Is it working better? I don't know. So much in that part of the world is now different from how it was during Bush's presidency (and very little of that is because of anything Obama did.)
- bunthorne
May 5, 2011 at 6:00pm
Well okay then bunthorne. It's obvious that I have a more generous view of Marty than you. The rule rather than the exception is that our perceptions are colored by bundled contingencies of identity affiliations. I'd love to dazzle you with more of my particular and very special brilliance. 'Somehow I expect my wife would at least agree to 'special brilliance' with her own 'special nuance contributions') At any rate it is fair and objective to say that I am wiped out and sweet dreams beckon their safe harbor. See you around. Good little chat bunthorne.
- jacko
May 5, 2011 at 9:37pm
I agree with ironyroad that when "some clerical demagogue with an agenda starts promising blood and revenge" in a mosque in Jerusalem, Americans, 11,000 km away, residing on a continent protected by two oceans, and sharing borders with friendly nations, have very little reason to quake at his words. I think those words were actually meant for local consumption. To boost Palestinian flagging spirit as they see the second of their most vocal and promising champions disappearing into the great black yonder (the first to go being Saddam Hussein). There are still a few champions hanging around and some new ones on the ascendance. In that sense, the cleric was not that far from being prescient. I'm sorry to have been such a SITM but I thought that particular message deserved some attention in the context of Marty's article. I can't imagine why anyone would want to interpret it as fear-mongering. Maybe it is the fashionable thing to do around here.
- noga1
May 5, 2011 at 10:29pm
I don't think it's fear-mongering either. And, if those words were intended for local consumption then who is the intended target? Again, I think Marty is trying to tell you guys something and you don't want to hear it.
- Sophia
May 6, 2011 at 3:50am
I thought it was just me, but evidently not. I've read this blop three times and it just doesn't make any sense.
- mlottman
May 6, 2011 at 12:22pm
"I've read this blop three times and it just doesn't make any sense." Has it occurred to you that the fault might lie in your own resistance to understanding? I have very little difficulty figuring out Marty's intent, which is why I thought it was pertinent to quote the venerable imam's words at Al-Aqsa mosque, lionizing Bin Laden and threatening the US with the wrath of the Muslims all over. Why would a Palestinian Imam do that?
- noga1
May 6, 2011 at 2:14pm
I also didn't find it that hard to follow the thread in Marty's post. It rambles, but that's the style of the writer. Proust rambled as well--it's not necessarily a sin. Mean-spirited disdain and stupidity are far more serious failings. Marty is commending Obama for a brave and decisive move that dealt a serious, albeit not fatal, blow to the terrorist enterprise. He's hoping and praying that this may signal an end to Obama's fantasies about placating the genocidal hatred of radical Islamists everywhere through humility, even-handedness and an openness to dialogue about our differences. He's praising the courageous act of a warrior in the struggle against radical Islam, wishing that it may also signal the beginning of an understanding of Israel's existential challenges, and sharing his fears that this may be expecting too much.
- willjames77
May 6, 2011 at 2:32pm
Ok Noga, that's fair enough. But it seems to me from my limited acquaintance that Israelis are rather better at dealing with the threat than Americans are. Less likely to turn it into political posturing and useless scaremongering and more likely to quietly take the measures needed to ward it off. In the U.S. it's still a heck of a lot more likely that you'll be killed in an automobile accident than as a result of terrorist action, and was indeed so in 2001 too.
- ironyroad
May 6, 2011 at 3:24pm
willjames: A voice of lucidity and sobriety. I appreciate your attempt to explain what should be obvious to anyone with some idea about where we are heading.
- noga1
May 6, 2011 at 4:21pm
irony, it is odd that people are more frightened of death by terrorism than by car wrecks, even though the latter are more probable not only in the U.S. but also in Israel and in most other places on earth (apart from the Mexican border towns, perhaps). Nevertheless, knowing that a killer is running around your neighborhood will probably cause you psychological distress and cause you to change your habit patterns--even if the chances of winding up as one of his victims remain statistically less probable than death by car crash or cancer. That's part of what makes terrorism such an effective tool. It scares the crap out of people in a way that accidents and natural disasters don't. So it's very useful for disrupting social life, inducing panic and creating anomie. Unlike avoiding freak lightning, we can do things to confront terrorism. It is just "political posturing and useless scaremongering" to make the effort to do so?
- willjames77
May 6, 2011 at 5:23pm
No no, willj, not at all. I was trying to distinguish (somewhat polemically, I concede) between the American effort and the Israeli effort, the latter being imo afflicted by less of the "posturing."
- ironyroad
May 6, 2011 at 5:40pm
"somewhat polemically": "Who gives a monkey's f**k what the preacher in the Al-Aqsa Mosque says!"
- noga1
May 6, 2011 at 6:03pm
No! That was ECV, "exasperated crude vernacular"! The "somewhat polemically" was this one, that I think willjames was referring to: "Less likely to turn it into political posturing and useless scaremongering and more likely to quietly take the measures needed to ward it off. In the U.S. it's still a heck of a lot more likely that you'll be killed in an automobile accident than as a result of terrorist action, and was indeed so in 2001 too."
- ironyroad
May 6, 2011 at 7:21pm
I didn't know this part of history but it makes sense in the context of why the Jerusalem Imam would mourn Bin Laden: http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Global-Viewpoint/2011/0506/Ayaan-Hirsi-Ali-Will-Muslim-Brotherhood-succeed-where-Osama-bin-Laden-failed "Bin Laden was many things, but he was not original. He was himself introduced to the doctrine of jihad by the late Palestinian theologian Abdullah Yusuf Azzam. Significantly, before Azzam begun teaching bin Laden and others in Saudi Arabia, he was a member of the Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood. Unlike Al Qaeda, the Muslim Brotherhood has evolved and learned the hard way that the use of violence will be met with superior violence by state actors. T" About Abdullah Yusuf Azzam: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_Yusuf_Azzam
- noga1
May 6, 2011 at 9:41pm
Now if only we could get Roger Cohen to read more of Ayaan Ali Hirsi...
- willjames77
May 7, 2011 at 7:00am
Not bloody likely. He probably thinks she is an "enlightenment fundamentalist".
- noga1
May 7, 2011 at 9:39am
I really enjoyed your article about the killing of the mass murderer, Osama bin Laden. You cut through all the verbal, political and diplomatic garbage being debated in the media. And how Israel and the United States stand together as the last and perhaps only defense against fanatics in the Arab world who hide their insane genocidal rage in religious propaganda and historically how the Nazis justified their genocide against European Jews during the Third Reich. That's an important theme which you pointed out and had never realized until I read your article. Despite the so-called Jasmine Revolution in the Middle East, Israel remains the only true democracy in the region. When Iran called for the destruction of Israel, despite the horror of the Holocaust, I was a bit surprised to find leftist academics and pundits writing columns about Westerners had somehow mistranslated the original statements from Arabic to English.
- rewiredhogdog
May 7, 2011 at 11:22am
"was a bit surprised to find leftist academics and pundits writing columns about Westerners had somehow mistranslated the original statements from Arabic to English." A small correction: the speech was given in Persian
- noga1
May 7, 2011 at 11:43am
I belatedly join noga and willjames about this post, and their comments. ah noga: you did not know that Palestinian Abdullah Yusuf Azzam was OBLaden's mentor in the Afghan jihad days? Have you read Steve Coll's "Ghost Wars"? I read it in 2005, after it won the Pulitzer and came out in paperback, and after two years of reading all things Af-Pak history. "Ghost Wars" is the, imo, best one source. I remember being very upset that Obama only read it after he won the 2008 election. Somehow, I assumed that Biden, as chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, had assigned it as required reading to all members of that committee, which included Obama. as to Peretz's reference "their own third holiest blah blah"? Does not take much research to understand the utter flimsiness of any Islamic claim to Jerusalem as a holy site just because the M allegedly had a dream where he visited by winged horse. Greek, Roman, and Nordic mythology has more credible "stories" than that. As to Obama and Osama? Kudos to the SEALS, but USA just created a new martyr. I am still recovering from Brooks and Shields on PBS last night, both saying they had no idea the US had such special special ops teams. David Mamet had a short-llived television series, "The Unit" a few years ago, about just such a super-secret special ops unit - not Navy, but Army. Mamet deserved more support for "The Unit" - maybe now it will make a comeback. But, I do wish SEAL 6 had NOT been named. Secrecy is their most important protection, especially because they mostly have families. Hiding in plain sight in Abbottabad sure busted my theory since 2003 - that OBL was living near a golf course in Swat, or somewhere near Chitral under protection of the Mohmands. Guess he had to relocate after the Pak military went into those areas. But I would not have guessed Abbottabad... see you all later...
- K2K
May 7, 2011 at 2:42pm