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Go Home Defending Israel Against Its Right-Wing Jews

TEL AVIV JOURNAL DECEMBER 6, 2011

Defending Israel Against Its Right-Wing Jews

In the Jewish struggle around Zionism there were at least three strands in opposition so fierce that it was evident that the very meaning of “the people Israel” was at stake. The first of these was a vast religious cohort, at once immensely learned or purported to have such learning and having, as well, the authority of the sages. Or the ages. While ongoing study and “trust in the Lord” constituted their program, they practiced a politics that was fundamentally anti-political. God was both their instrument and their end. A second vision emerged in Europe, from European socialism, to be exact, and it was typified by the Jewish Labor Bund, organized primarily in Poland but also elsewhere in eastern Europe in the belief that peoplehood would flourish through the Yiddish language and independent communitarian arrangements made with the mostly anti-semitic regimes of the region. The bright future of socialism underpinned the whole enterprise. Of course, it wasn’t really an enterprise. It was a dream—alas, closer to a delusion. My own Jewish upbringing was touched by this apparition. Here is the last line of a Godless and prayer-less Sabbath hymn: “Yiddish vort host upgeheet undser tsar un undser freyd.” Or in a rough English translation: “Yiddish word, you have protected our sorrows and our joys.” Protected, indeed. Perhaps “ward” or “guardian” is more fitting. Still, it was not what it made itself out to be.

The third was a variety of Jewish assimilationist programmatics entailing a denigration of the very idea of universal beliefs connecting through the sinews of a scattered nation one Jew to another. Starting with the demeaning Napoleonic formula “Frenchmen of the Mosaic persuasion,” these programmatics flourished during the nineteenth century especially in England, Germany, and France where, in 1896, the career of the citoyen juif was collapsed in the delirium of the unpatriotic Jew, international banker, socialist conspirator, traitor, and spy. True, it limped along longest in the Kaiser’s empire and in the mixed autarchies stemming from the Austro-Hungarian empire. And it collapsed there more bloodily than in France. Still, after Captain Dreyfus and despite his ultimate court-adjudged rectitude, it was mostly pretense. L’affaire Dreyfus—there was a kindred legal scandal, l’affaire Zola—was a turning point in the history of liberal Europe.

In any case, the European citizen Jew did not survive the twentieth century. He had been literally wiped out in the gas ovens of the Nazi empire. And what was left of this Jew in the Communist utopias was, well, virtually nothing. Except that it was Zionism that rescued the remnant, the Zionism that had been so ridiculed and dismissed by both the ultra-pious and the secular heretics, apikorsim, according to the lingo of those who guarded the gates of the faith. Of course, that Zionism had altered the working paradigm of Jewish history. It was the Jewish state that rescued a million Jews from the Soviet Union and its miserable satellites, and it was also that state, even in its very infancy, that rescued 800,000 Jews from their dhimmi status out of the Maghreb all the way to Arab Baghdad (actually Jewish Baghdad) and to Isfahan and Shiraz in Persia. Some of these Jews descended from the Exile following the destruction of the First Temple in 535 BCE. Old communities, indeed.

Verdi’s Nabucco is based on this saga, and its “Va Pensiero” or “Song of the Slaves” has been called the most popular operatic chorus in existence. Before Hatikva, “The Hope,” written in 1886, was declared the official Zionist hymn, Verdi’s melody was sung at proto-Zionist meetings all over the continent: “Remember the fate of Jerusalem.” Almost uniformly at contemporary performances of the opera, and at present there are more and more frequent performances in America and Europe, once “Va Pensiero” is sung it is sung again, in tribute to both the passion of the music and the passion of the narrative. Arturo Toscanini conducted the piece with thousands of singers at Verdi’s funeral in 1901. If you have even just five minutes to spare for a rewarding melody and a rewarding message, listen to any one of the following: Nana Mouskouri, Placido Domingo, Luciano Pavorotti, Andrea Bocelli, Kiri Te Kanawa.

The vision of the slaves in Babylon was fulfilled existentially in 1948 and then definitively in 1967. The first Jewish polity in two millennia has now been around for 64 years. And in Jewry the old formations, ones that many Zionists assumed to be near extinction, have been revived or, to be precise, have revived themselves. Not socialism, heaven forfend. There is a probably apocryphal tale told about David Ben Gurion, the first prime minister of Israel, taking his grandson to the ultra-orthodox Mea Shearim neighborhood of Jerusalem early in the history of the state. There were perhaps a few hundred pious Jews living in that sector of the city at the time, maybe a little more. Ben Gurion was certain that their kind of piety had very little future and that Jews like these would disappear. The prime minister wanted his young kin to see the phenomenon before it vanished. But it has not, and it won’t.

You will not see many (or really any) of these Jews in Tel Aviv central. Still, in Jerusalem and in Safed and in communities “from Dan to Beersheva,” a phrase used eight times in the Hebrew Bible, and southwards to Eilat, the truly pious are not only seen but are a powerful force because the political system empowers minority parties through the arcana of parliamentary majorities when the threshold for representation is very low. Maybe 8 percent of the populace is what they call Haredi. But, despite differences among them, they are politically disciplined. If there is a bill raising the family allowance for the umpteenth child they will all be for it (as, to be sure, are Arab parties in the Knesset). They will give way on other policy matters like security: Most of them are not hyper-patriotic or even patriotic at all. As can be imagined, there are pretty ugly transactions carried out on the parliamentary floor. If these are not negotiated, a narrow-majority government could easily fall.

The Haredim have a narrow view of their interests as citizens. Their calculus is with God almighty. For many decades, their pious young men did not serve in the military where universal military service, including among secular women, is otherwise the norm. That has now changed somewhat. This change has been accelerated by the less pious cohort of what are called “national religious” youth. But the dividing lines are not immutable, and more-or-less ultra-orthodox men are increasingly allowing themselves to be conscripted. You get the contradiction here: “allowing themselves to be conscripted.” A pious and erudite friend of mine says he rues the day when the first haredi wears a uniform and carries a gun. Well, it’s time to rue.

Not that these Jews have anything against the Palestinians or covet what Palestinians claim as their own. The relevant struggle is between the fervently pious and the great majority of Israeli Jews, not especially for this hilltop in Samaria or this street in the Holy City which may or may not be included in east Jerusalem. It is to keep images of female nudity (or near-nudity) off bus advertisements, to be able to walk in Mea Shearim and other religious neighborhoods without seeing a single woman (she and her already shrouded body being behind barriers), to have traffic diverted on the Sabbath or, in some places, closed down altogether. I am just back from Israel, having flown both ways on El Al, very pleasant and uneventful flights. There were enough ultra-orthodox Jews to notice, at the gate and in the craft itself. Men and women mingled together and jostled each other, even religious men and women whom one could tell apart by their garb. Did some enormous transgression occur?

According to some rabbinic rulings men are not allowed to hear the voices of women in public song. Or women to sing in front of men. Try to enforce that in the army. This is the controversy into which Efraim Halevy inserted himself. He is a citizen, after all.

Readers of The New Republic will know the name Halevy, one of the great truth-tellers and sages of Israel, secular, funny, corrosively intelligent. Look up the articles he has written for us. British-born, immensely knowledgeable about Arab society, wise about the possibilities and limitations of the Israeli polity, for four years he was the head of the Mossad, the Institute for Intelligence and Special Operations, which tells you less than you already know, and for a similar but later period also the director of Israel’s National Security Council. It is he who was the engineer of the peace between Israel and Jordan, Prime Minister Rabin and King Hussein. A truly weighty man. This story about his attack on religious coercion didn’t make the American press much. In fact, if I am not mistaken, there was no attention at all. The New York Times certainly did not mention it: It was too busy finding fault with whatever. Choose your topic. There’s an article every day. An Israeli settler has cut down an Arab farmer’s olive tree. In context, it’s a terrible thing to do. But it’s not slitting anyone’s throat.

Halevy compared the threat of religious extremism to the Iranian bomb, saying that the latter was a threat that was worldwide and would be addressed, but that the existential matter of how Israel lives needed real attention, attention in Israel and by Israelis. “Israel’s true existential danger comes from within,” he argued. The chairman of the Knesset finance committee wrote the attorney general demanding an investigation of Halevy, accusing him of “incitement.” Many retired generals spoke in support of Halevy, and officers in active service did not hide their simpatico views. You can read about this deep ideological confrontation in the Jerusalem Post, YNet News, Israel Hayom. Nope, as I said, not in the Times.

It is not only the religious right that has been testing its strength. It’s the right itself. They constitute separate cultural strata and vote for different parties. It is true that, in contrast to the orthodox masses who vote as their rabbis say (the Gerer rebbe says “do this,” the Gerer hassid does exactly that: in the last Jerusalem municipal election their rabbi, having quarreled with other rabbis, instructed his acolytes to vote for the secular candidate; he won), the refugees from totalitarianism have argumentative habits. Alas, the immigrants from the ex-Communist Soviet Union and the other “socialist” republics once pasted together in the Warsaw Pact were raised in so authoritarian an environment that their rebellion against dictatorship was also hard-edged, conformist, and, yes, authoritarian. They are not exactly tolerant. Now, it’s true that standards for performance in classical music, dance, and opera have risen enormously since a million Russian Jews (some more Jewish, some less, probably not at all) immigrated to the Jewish state. (This is possibly the first time in history that half-Jews and non-Jews would bribe gentile officials to stamp their documents as “Jewish.”) Their achievements in mathematics, physics, computer science, and bio-tech are simply spectacular, and there are dozens of excellent American universities that would give up their departments if they could exchange them for ones at the Weizmann Institute or Tel Aviv University.

But culture and education is not all this wave of immigrants brought to Israel. Crime is another. Now that the Russian right is represented in the governing coalition it has taken on a series of mischievous initiatives and initiatives worse than mischievous. Still, given that many in their constituency are dubiously Jewish according to the rabbinical authorities (which, believe me, is an ugly, inconsistent, and deeply corrupt cohort), the parliamentary right-wing is actually a pillar of civil liberties when it comes to religious coercion in any sphere of society. Here it has to be said, the qualifications for “being Jewish” for these rabbis are so narrow that probably half of American Jewry would not be Jews at all. My own children would not be considered Jewish.

On other matters, there is an almost fascistic tone to the rhetoric of some on the political right which can stretch from Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman’s Yisrael Beiteinu party to younger members of the governing Likud, the prime minister’s party, and also to some in its Mizrachi base, that is, those who descend from Islamic countries and poorer sectors of the population. They certainly are soft on the thugs of the settler movement who try to intimidate both Palestinian Arabs and Israeli peaceniks. And they are adept at manipulating administrative law through the bureaucracies and the courts to burden Arab life, both in Israel and the territories. There is also a certain militaristic cast to their ways. Moreover, they are sure that, if they don’t win this political battle and that, the apocalypse is just around the corner. This is the ugliest part of Israeli political life. But, then, the left is so weak and the ultra-left even weaker that their prophecy of the apocalypse is limited virtually to the universities: the irony of being a pathetic minority and being able at the same time to impose radical conformity in academe. Kind of like in America.

It is also imperative to grasp that there are actually civil libertarian heroes on the right and specifically in the Likud. They are Benny Begin (the son of the first Likud prime minister, Menahem Begin); Don Meridor (a son of an old Irgun fighter), deputy premier; Reuven Rivlin (the Speaker of the Knesset), a descendant of an old Jewish family in historic Palestine, who is against the two-state solution but a firm supporter of equal rights for Arabs and Jews. They and the cohort around them are Bibi Netanyahu’s margin in the Likud to stand against both the assault on the Supreme Court and the legislative effort in the Knesset to curtail various contributions of foreign governments to Israeli NGOs, mostly pro-Palestinian in expenditures and program.

Let me put both of these issues into a slighter wider context. The Court has been a fierce but prudent enforcer of Arab rights in the context of a conflict society. It is hardly easy work, especially since Israel has not a constitution but a changeable basic law. This means that crucial judicial precedents ended up being the ideas of the previous chief justice, Aharon Barak, who would in America be termed an activist judge. More than that: The choice of Supreme Court justices is not determined by the prime minister (or the president) by nomination but in a convoluted process including sitting justices and designated members of the Israeli bar. I am in favor of my country’s judiciary having the democratic aspect of confirmation. It does, more recently in a foul environment. But Israel’s has none of that. It’s why its Supreme Court is widely disliked. And distrusted. Nonetheless, Bibi has opted for the status quo, notwithstanding that this will constitute a political victory for the left. It is just possible that he favors the present arrangements rather than install a highly partisan process that would advance the right and its views on both Arab rights, in particular, and the rights of the citizenry, in general. It is statesmanship that accounts for his reluctance to court the crowds. I know that Netanyahu is no favorite of the fashionable American left. But he is a favorite of the broad stream in American political opinion. Hence his reception by Congress a few months ago. This was not exactly a triumph for “J Street.”

One of the most pathetic facts about the Israeli left is how dependent it is on foreign cash, much of it from foreign NGOs and from foreign governments. Anti-semitic Norway, as just one instance, puts big bucks into the political and civil dialogue of Israel. Foreign aid of any sort is not a widely discussed matter in any country. So what the Brits appropriate or the Scandinavians or the Belgians or the flatulent “human rights” organizations is not a consequence of any democratic dialogue. It is an imposition of the professionals. The Israeli public doesn’t trust these organizations or the people who run them. And there is no democratic theory that establishes a civil right of foreign bodies secretly to pay for or bolster their own views in a free society where anybody can say or do what he wants. As in Israel where even members of the Knesset are free to commit perfidy and treason, as some Arab members do. Indeed, some 45 years ago, there was a big American scandal when it was revealed by Ramparts magazine (blessedly, no longer with us) that the CIA had committed an abomination in supporting liberal journals and other opinion outlets in Europe, mostly in eastern Europe which, if you recall, was not a free society. How dare they! Well, a similar process is going on in Israel which is a free society. Various proposals were put forward to restrict or restrain this money flow. But Bibi is also against these. And he is against them because he understands that in a tense country it may be better to live with an excess of liberty than an excess of restraint.

Neither of these statesmanlike moves will get Netanyahu credit with the Israel-haters. And, of course, not with the authoritarians in his own party either or Lieberman’s party. In a way, in fact, he stands alone.

There is at least one more obsession of the Israeli right (and of the religious right, as well) which rankles me. It is the case of Jonathan Pollard which has reverberations in the United States. Before spying for Israel, Pollard committed espionage for Australia and Pakistan and had some obscure tie to the People’s Republic of China. For all of this he received remuneration. That is, for all of this including from Israel. He was (and likely still is) a nut-case with fantasies of sainthood and persecution. The campaign for Pollard’s release has intensified around the 25th anniversary of his imprisonment. His partisans have made it into a bipartisan political issue here at home and a “no questions asked” campaign in Israel itself.

Release depends on the president who has enough antipathies to Israel to last two terms. He has accommodated himself to some Middle East realities, i.e., that Palestinian statehood is not where it’s at, and that bashing Israel will get him no place in Egypt, Syria, or even Saudi Arabia. They are their own problems. In fact, he seems to have ceded international diplomacy in the region to France and the European Union—which is almost a non sequitur. Does Europe really exist? He has been pushed by American public opinion into relenting a bit in his hostility to the Jewish state. And American Jews may have relented a bit in their distrust of Obama. But I can imagine that the pressure on him about Pollard drives him up the wall. Finally, he may give in. Why are American Jews so eager to free a spy against the United States? Well, frankly, American Jews don’t give a damn. It’s the Jewish professionals ... and the Israelis. Willy nilly, if he lets Pollard go free, Israel will pay dearly, not just from the president who by now must be disgusted by the passion mobilized for a spy. But by the people of the United States.

I’ve written about the Pollard case before. In fact, just about a year ago, on December 25, 2010, in an item titled, “Mr. President: Do Not Free Jonathan Pollard”:

In the first instance and despite the brazen insinuations of his supporters, Jonathan Pollard is not a Jewish martyr. He is a convicted espionage agent who spied on his country for both Israel and Pakistan (!)—a spy, moreover, who got paid for his work. His professional career, then, reeks of infamy and is suffused with depravity. It is true that Pollard has achieved the status of hero for some in Israel. But you should know exactly who these people are: They are professional victims, mostly brutal themselves, who originate in the ultra-nationalist and religious right. They are insatiable. And they want America to be Israel’s patsy.

They are also not democrats in any sense of the word, and their call for “justice” in this case is probably the only instance in which they have been moved by a sense of mercy for pretty much anyone.

If you release Pollard, you would be encouraging the kind of ideological blackmail that has paralyzed Israeli politics not just in the ongoing diplomatic torpor (in which I believe, as you well know, that it is not Jerusalem at fault) but through the general assault on civil liberties and freedoms that make the Jewish state so distinctive in the Middle East. I know, Mr. President, that you are not responsible for the health of Israel’s democracy. But you will find that bending to this demand for ransom will only encourage the extortionists in Israel to attempt to hijack grand politics in an ever grander manner.

The tacticians on the Israeli far-right argue (dishonestly in my view) that, if you give Pollard to Prime Minister Netanyahu, Bibi will be less constrained and constricted in his diplomacy. Some journalists and commentators have bought this stratagem. (I am surprised to read that also Barney Frank is in this camp.) This is a fundamental and, for some, a deliberate misreading of the dynamics of Israeli statecraft. One hand does not wash the other in Jerusalem, at least not for more than a day or two.

Actually, I was relieved to read that your press counselor had said that Pollard was not on your mind. But, Mr. President, I understand that it might just be easier to let the culprit go. That’s one way to stop the incessant special pleading.

My imagination turns a bit lurid. You release Pollard. He flies to Israel on El Al. He is greeted by thousands and thousands of triumphant hustlers in the streets of Jerusalem. They have pulled one over on you. Over America, too. And over American Jews, especially. They are dancing the hora, of course, ecstatic.

There’s an article in Friday’s Jerusalem Post about a relatively new book, Grace: How Religion Divides and Unites Us by my Harvard colleague Robert D. Putnam and David E. Campbell. (Putnam is also the author of the highly provocative Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community.) Grace has good news in it for the Jews of the United States. They are very much respected by their fellow Americans ... and also much liked. Or, as Putnam told the Post, “the most popular religion in America are Jews.” The author does not believe that this is a fragile standing.

The Post reports:

Putnam offers a piece of anecdotal evidence to illustrate just how positively Jews are allegedly viewed in the U.S. at the moment. According to the processor, people signing up for dating websites who say they are Jewish are more sought after than others.

“If you say you are Jewish, you get more date offers than less,” he said.

I haven’t read the new book. So I don’t know how Israel fits into the equation. My estimate, however, is that Israel’s place in the American mind is quite secure. No, it is not persuaded by the tremblings of some liberal Jewish (and a few non-Jewish) journalists who seem to believe—as perhaps you do, too, Mr. President—that the arc of the future will be drawn in the world of Islam.

So American solidarity with Israel is quite firm. But it is reckless to tempt the goddesses. Pollard is the single repellent figure in this history. It would be a disservice to both Zion and what our forefathers called the “new American Zion” to appear to cleanse this viper. Make no mistake about this: Your clemency for Pollard will be widely seen as a cleansing.

Martin Peretz is editor-in-chief emeritus of The New Republic.

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29 comments

"According to some rabbinic rulings men are not allowed to hear the voices of women in public song." And yet, Jewish women in the bible like Miriam do sing. “Sing to the Lord, for he has triumphed gloriously; Horse and rider he has thrown into the sea.”

- arnon

December 6, 2011 at 12:43am

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For all our faults in the United States, the idea of a secular state that values a civilized society independent of any particular religious belief is sheer genius. For all their faults and personal nuttiness, Roger Williams and Thomas Jefferson deserve as much of a mighty hail of admiration and appreciation as we can muster. A state founded upon a particular religious belief, whether it is Saudi Arabia or Israel or Iran, is a state always on the verge of imploding or exploding.

- skahn

December 6, 2011 at 12:45am

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While Marty bemoans foreign, especially Norwegian(!), financial support for left-wing Israeli NGOs, he criticizes efforts in the Knesset to curtail that support. It seems reasonable to require NGOs to report their sources of funding from foreign sources. Liberals seek maximum transparency about political funding in the United States, too. Other restrictions proposed to the Knesset may well infringe on civil liberties, but Marty doesn't tell us what they are. I am troubled by Marty's intolerance toward Soviet and Middle Eastern Jews. They did not come from civil societies where people politely disagree nor do they currently live in a liberal region of the world. And some of their behavior may also be a reaction to the fecklessness of the Israeli Left.

- amidut

December 6, 2011 at 6:18am

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And the intolerance and narrow sectoral politics of the Haredim.

- amidut

December 6, 2011 at 6:28am

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Excellent, thank you Marty.

- WandreyCer

December 6, 2011 at 7:38am

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"They did not come from civil societies where people politely disagree nor do they currently live in a liberal region of the world. And some of their behavior may also be a reaction to the fecklessness of the Israeli Left." Your first point makes sense, Amidut, however, to excuse uncivil behavior on the fact that the people who engage in it didn't come from tolerant societies and as a "reaction to the fecklessness of the left" is like excusing excusing the extremism of Israel's Arab enemies by saying that they don't live in tolerant societies and the "fecklessness of Israeli policies." These are mere excuses. There should be one standard of civility in Israeli society that applies to all. The civil law needs to be respected by all Israeli citizens, right or left; secular or religious.

- arnon

December 6, 2011 at 9:14am

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The dork S Kahn does it again. "A state founded upon a particular religious belief, whether it is Saudi Arabia or Israel or Iran, is a state always on the verge of imploding or exploding." The comparison of Israel to Iran and Saudi Arabia is odious and is odious and false. Israeli is a secular democracy and like the US has its extremist, religious and secular. There is more at stake in Israel because of the dangers it faces from exterior and interior enemies, but to compare it to countries without any democratic institutions makes no sense and is ignorant.

- arnon

December 6, 2011 at 9:19am

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the truly pious are not only seen but are a powerful force because the political system empowers minority parties through the arcana of parliamentary majorities when the threshold for representation is very low Do you really think that just increasing the threshold to get into Knesset would solve the problem? What is more likely to happen is that the hareidi parties would coalesce into one party in order to meet the threshold and that that one party would exert as much blackmail in future Knessets as the current group of hareidi parties do collectively. The problem is that the hareidi parties' support or opposition is not the difference between a budget getting passed of failing or of a treaty getting ratified or not. It is the difference between a Prime Minister serving his full term or facing early elections. Until the election for Prime Minister is completely separated from that for Knesset (not the half-measure from the 1990s that preserved the worst part of the integrated election--maintaining the Knesset's power to bring down the Prime Minister), the hareidi parties will maintain their political power.

- sighthnd

December 6, 2011 at 10:23am

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A few perspectives: 1. http://navonsblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/israels-purloined-letter.html "For decades, many people in Israel have been wondering why right-wing governments are generally unable to implement their policies and often end-up adopting the rhetoric of the Left. [-] The answer to this riddle was provided by Tel-Aviv Law Professor Menachem Mautner in his book “Law and Culture in Israel at the Threshold of the Twenty-First Century” (Tel-Aviv University Press, 2008): The Israeli Left lost its monopoly on power with the electoral victory of the Right in 1977, and it has successfully tried to keep its influence via the judicial system, academia and the media. At the Supreme Court, Judges are selected and appointed by Judges, and they have granted to themselves the right to repeal laws deemed “unconstitutional” (regardless of the fact that Israel has no constitution). Hence the “judicial activism” epitomized by Justice Aharon Barak: if the majority does not legislate according to the will and worldview of the “enlightened ones” (to use Barak’s own words), then laws must be repealed by self-appointed judges who know better. In academia, it is virtually impossible for conservative-minded academics to get tenure in the social sciences and in the humanities outside of Bar-Ilan University. As for “dissident” journalists, there is hardly a payroll to be found outside of Makor Rishon and, more recently, of Israel Hayom." 2. Broadcast media in Israel is very Leftist. It is almost hysterically so. Israelis are rather savvy about these things. Despite the constant spin, they can sift the facts from the spin. Which is why, I suppose, all this frustration from the media, that they cannot dominate the public discourse the way they want. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iRebvOLNaQ 3. If there is a risk in the long term to Israel's democracy, it will be from what the Israeli journalist Ben Dror Yemini called the "talibanization" of Israel's society. The growing power of the Charedi segment in Israel's society due to the disproportionate influence Charedi parties have on Israel's politics due to the coaltion system. This influence can be easily averted if Israel had a more representative type of system, which would reflect more accurately the fact that 80% of Israelis are secular and have little interest in enacting halachic laws or empowering crazy rabbis. After the cottage cheese protest and the awakening of Israelis to their power to force the powers-that-be to take note, I have great hopes that such a movement will soon begin to form. My other hope is that such a movement will not be corrupted by Leftists who will probably insist on inserting the Palestinians into the discussion which has nothing to do with them. __________ As usual, Skahn's malevolent ignorance when it comes to the Jewish state astounds. In cases like this, I always wonder where this self-defined paragon of upright morality would be in historical times when it was, likewise, very socially healthy to beat on Jews.

- noga1

December 6, 2011 at 10:33am

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I'm wondering why Peretz is choosing to wage a verbal war on Israelis when there is this kind of existential threat hovering over it: Adli Sadeq, PA Ambassador to India, in official PA daily: "The demands of this enemy [Israel] are strange and amazing demands, unique in the history of conflicts... They [Israelis] are not satisfied with Palestinian recognition that is a function of their state and its existence, but want recognition of the eternal right of Israel to exist.... They have a common mistake, or misconception by which they fool themselves, assuming that Fatah accepts them and recognizes the right of their state to exist, and that it is Hamas alone that loathes them and does not recognize the right of this state to exist. They ignore the fact that this state, based on a fabricated [Zionist] enterprise, never had any shred of a right to exist... Hamas, Fatah and the others are not waging war against Israel right now for reasons related to balance of power. There are no two Palestinians who disagree over the fact that Israel exists, and recognition of it is restating the obvious, but recognition of its right to exist is something else, different from recognition of its [physical] existence." [Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Nov. 26, 2011]

- noga1

December 6, 2011 at 10:50am

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“Do you really think that just increasing the threshold to get into Knesset would solve the problem? What is more likely to happen is that the hareidi parties would coalesce into one party in order to meet the threshold and that that one party would exert as much blackmail in future Knessets as the current group of hareidi parties do collectively.” There are differences between the Haredim parties which may seem insignificant to us non-Haredim Jews but are huge to them. It will not be easy for them to come together and if they do it will a very changed party since they will have had to compromise among themselves. In any case, the threshold should be raised to make it more difficult for small parties (not just Haredi parties) to blackmail majority parties.

- arnon

December 6, 2011 at 10:55am

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I'm really bothered by one reference to your essay, Mr. Peretz. It's where you state the ultra-religious Jews in Israel are exempt from military conscription. So the burden falls on the average, secular citizen while the religious get off scotch-free. I'm not Jewish. But I am a Vietnam veteran. So I know a thing or two about serving my country. And as a medical corpsman I saw the human face of war. You also said that this exemption is changing. I'm just wondering in what way it is changing. I wish you would filled that one out a bit more. I just think the average Jew who has to serve his country while other Jews don't is getting a raw deal. That's not what democracy is all about. So my heart goes out to all the Jewish men and women serving their country and being put in harm's way. They've getting fucked by the fickle finger of fate, as we used to say in high school.

- rewiredhogdog

December 6, 2011 at 11:43am

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I would add to "rewiredhog"s comment by offering thanks to the Arab Israelis (mostly Druze and Beduin, I understand) who have served in the Israel Defense Forces. The Haredim should be shamed by their example. Peretz, in his introductory paragraph, failed to mention the historically significant Communist opposition to Zionism. There was a Jewish Bureau in the Soviet Communist Party ("Yevsektia" in Russian). Their little commissars went out to lecture and discipline the Soviet Jews and stamp out the Hebrew language and other unofficial Jewish culture. Today, we have a Yevsektia on the radical Left which is committed to trashing Zionism and Israel at every opportunity, even if it means collaboration with Israel's and Jewry's mortal enemies. As always, I appreciate Noga's contribution of information and insight to these discussions. She cited the PA Ambassador to India's refusal to recognize the Jewish people's right to national self-determination. Yet the Arabs demand recognition of a "Palestinian" nation and state. I would add that this is of a piece with Islam's demonization of the Jewish people since inception 1400 years ago. Jew hatred remains a staple of Islamic politics, even in far-away Malaysia and Pakistan. Not to mention that Islam divides the world into the Realm of Islam and the Realm of War. So no infidel state deserves permanent recognition.

- amidut

December 6, 2011 at 1:13pm

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Last, but not least, I thank "rewiredhog" for his Vietnam service.

- amidut

December 6, 2011 at 1:16pm

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" The Haredim should be shamed by their example." The problem begins at the elementary school level. Most Haredim (I'm speaking of the really die in the wool Jewish ultra ultra orthodox) do not get to acquire the basic skills and secular studies. By the time they reach army service age, they are next to useless. It's the fault of the state that avoids confronting them over these issues. The state apparatus simply doesn't know how to deal with this population, nearly hermetic and almost autistic as far as mutual communication with the society at large is concerned. They live by their own laws and rules and they certainly know how to work the system to their best benefit. It is absolutely imperative to find a way to get them to engage with the law of the land but how to do it is a big big problem. We don't want to see children being forced by police to attend public schools. Furthermore, as long as these people feel obligated to obey their rabbis rather than the legislature, I'm not sure it is such a good idea for them to serve in the army. There have been problems already with too devout soldiers refusing to obey orders because of their rabbis, and it is usually the army that folds. It's terribly frustrating. I had hoped that the injection of some Russian secularism would tip the scales towards a more total separation between synagogue and state but it seems that the all powerful coalition forces dominate.

- noga1

December 6, 2011 at 1:45pm

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arnon: "In any case, the threshold should be raised to make it more difficult for small parties (not just Haredi parties) to blackmail majority parties." If their power is restricted to holding up the budget or any other individual bill, their blackmail would be a lot less powerful. Completely separate executive and legislative elections and the potential for small parties to bring down the government will disappear and with it their capacity to blackmail the governing party. With that, there would be no reason to restrict smaller parties.

- sighthnd

December 6, 2011 at 3:35pm

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"If their power is restricted to holding up the budget or any other individual bill, their blackmail would be a lot less powerful. Completely separate executive and legislative elections and the potential for small parties to bring down the government will disappear and with it their capacity to blackmail the governing party. With that, there would be no reason to restrict smaller parties." That would be another way of dealing with the problem. I am not against any reasonable democratic solution. Raising the threshold may be easier to achieve and it's not undemocratic to require a higher percentage of the vote to sit in the Knesset. The threshold today is ridiculously low. It's lower than any other democratic country.

- arnon

December 6, 2011 at 3:55pm

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I'd grant that increasing the threshold within reason is reasonably democratic. However, it does not address another problem which is exploited today by the smaller parties: the fact that it takes close to 60% of the Jewish votes in Knesset to form and maintain a government once you factor in that Arab parties cannot be part of the 50% for political reasons, whatever your views are about that. Changing the role of Knesset from ratifying governments to ratifying individual initiatives might make it more acceptable to turn to them for support, which would reduce the likelihood that non-support from any one Jewish opposition party, whatever its size, would torpedo a bill.

- sighthnd

December 6, 2011 at 4:43pm

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That's a tricky proposition sigfhtnd. I have nothing against including Arab parties participation in the Knesset, but I am not for giving the a veto over the peace process. Israel, is still in a state of undeclared (and declared in the case of Hamas) war. After some kind of peace is put in place your proposal might make sense.

- arnon

December 6, 2011 at 6:46pm

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Here is an interesting article about election games being played in Egypt: http://www.danielpipes.org/10389/egypt-sham-election?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+kramerlinks+%28Linkage+by+Martin+Kramer%29

- arnon

December 6, 2011 at 6:52pm

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Thanks Peretz this was a very informative piece.

- Pnaut

December 6, 2011 at 6:52pm

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Sorry to be posting off topic, but this is one of the few threads dealing with world issues (TNR seems to be concentrating most of their efforts on domestic [politics). In any case an important development dealing with Iran's atom quest: http://www.worldcrunch.com/new-sanctions-and-whispers-war-europe-iran-standoff/4216 Walter Russel Mead said this about the story: http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2011/12/06/germany-war-with-iran-cant-be-ruled-out/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+kramerlinks+%28Linkage+by+Martin+Kramer%29

- arnon

December 6, 2011 at 6:58pm

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"I have nothing against including Arab parties participation in the Knesset, but I am not for giving the a veto over the peace process." How does that give them a veto? At most, it would enable them to contribute the votes needed to pass a peace plan in Knesset. However, I suspect that for that the politics will require 60 votes from Jewish parties as is de facto required today to form/maintain a government.

- sighthnd

December 6, 2011 at 11:39pm

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sighthnd, politics being what it is, parties negotiating for peace will take the ability to pass whatever deal they come up with through the Knesset on the Israeli side.

- arnon

December 7, 2011 at 12:07am

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Arnon: “The dork S Kahn does it again.” I am not sure exactly the definition of a “dork,” though as I am not especially intelligent, erudite, articulate, graceful, athletic, artistic, or perceptive, probably I qualify. I am not sure what your purpose is in posting your comments about me? Are you trying to change my mind? Insulting someone is an odd way of pursuing that goal. Are you a little confused? Happens to all of us as we get older. I have not been to either Israel or Saudi Arabia, though I have conversed with quite a few people from those countries and with people who have lived in them. I am satisfied to live in the United States, but if I had to move to one of those two countries, I would certainly choose Israel over Saudi Arabia. However, I regard with concern the creation of a nation state based on a racial identity or a religious belief. To the extent that Israel is democratic, tolerant, and accepting of a variety of people, that is commendable. When I was young I was told that the formation of Israel was a great triumph. I was also told that Arabs and Iranians were hostile to Jews, firmly attached to authoritarianism, and unwilling to make peace with Israel. I am not sure that the formation of Israel was the best solution to the long-standing tragedy of anti-antisemitism, but it now exists, and the best thing would be for the Jews, Arabs, and Iranians to learn to live with each other in reasonable peace. Countries such as Tunisia, Libya and Egypt have surprised us with resistance to dictators and desire for change. Iran and Saudi Arabia are more difficult nuts for reformers to crack, but perhaps they too will surprise us. In any case, Arnon, just for the heck of it, why don't you give your obsession with me a rest, and go back to posting articulate, interesting, and informed comments. I know you are capable of it. As you just did.

- skahn

December 8, 2011 at 1:00am

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"I am not sure that the formation of Israel was the best solution to the long-standing tragedy of anti-antisemitism," Antisemitism is a tragedy? Are you willing to refer with similar non-challance to anti-Black racism as a tragedy? It is obvious from this Freudian slip how knowledgeable is Mr. Kahn in Jewish history. Mr. Kahn has seen fit to inform us at least a dozen times since his arrival on these boards that he doesn't like being a Jew. We got the message. It appears he has not. He keeps baiting Jews with his empty rhetorical flourishes. And then he complains ( I imagine a high pitched whining voice) that posters actually respond to his baiting. No one is going to try to convert you, you are far too smart for us. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoCEc5B1M8Y

- noga1

December 8, 2011 at 1:25pm

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http://azarmehr.blogspot.com/2011/12/eagerness-for-crisis-and-conflict.html "'I tell you, if on this very day, the Islamic Republic attacked America, the Americans will not have the military capability to respond, they will stretch their hand out for negotiations saying come on lets somehow sort this out, not only they can't attack us but if we attack them they won't be able to respond either, really this is how it is. With what economy do they want to attack? with what support from their own people do they want to fight? with what support amongst the international public opinion? with which high spirited army? They are surrounded by us every where.The Americans are surrounded everywhere in the world by the Hezballoahi troops, where ever they make a move. Their fifth navy fleet is in Bahrain, their air base is in Qatar, they are surrounded by us every where, in Kuwait...I tell you the Baseej's most muted response to the slightest attack by the Zionist regime will be the liberation of the Quds(Jerusalem) nothing less for sure. I mean whatever happens, the Baseej members are counting the seconds, based on what is written in Imam Khomeini's thesis, its not as if it is a secret, every Muslim is duty bound to go to wherever Muslim land is occupied and join the uprising and he does not even require the blessing of the local Imam, This is a fatwa, but for reasons of secondary edicts and some international considerations and the current priorities we are biding our time, otherwise everyone is counting the moments for an excuse to come up and go and finish off these Zionists' "

- noga1

December 8, 2011 at 5:54pm

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Ooops. Wrong thread. I was momentarily distracted by skahn's profound analysis on Iran.

- noga1

December 8, 2011 at 5:58pm

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Hey, since we have the MALF club all in one place, I'm curious: Do you think Marty might endorse Gingrich? http://news.yahoo.com/gingrich-fuels-more-mideast-conflict-palestinians-125812009.html

- RJSampson1

December 10, 2011 at 4:55pm

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