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Go Home Carl Paladino Doesn't Seem to Like Gay People

JONATHAN CHAIT OCTOBER 10, 2010

Carl Paladino Doesn't Seem to Like Gay People

BY ISAAC CHOTINER

[Guest post by Isaac Chotiner]

Well, this should just about end the New York governor's race. Carl Paladino, the unhinged GOP candidate, said the following today:

[Being homosexual] is not how god created us, and that's not the example that we should be showing our children. Children would be much better off and much more successful getting married and raising a family than being gay. And I don't want them to be brainwashed into thinking that homosexuality is an equally valid and successful option. It isn't. 

The New York Times reports that Paladino's speech had originally included this line:

There is nothing to be proud of in being a dysfunctional homosexual.

However, the speech was delivered without this smear. The really interesting question is how on earth these remarks came to be part of Paladino's prepared speech (to a group of Orthodox Jews). Either Paladino is writing his own speeches (probably, er, a mistake), or the people writing his speeches have no political sense whatsoever. Either way, he's toast now.

P.S. It would be simplistic to blame this medium-hot rhetoric for crimes like the awful torture of some gay men in New York on Friday. Still, Paladino's decision to give this speech two days later is at best unseemly.

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37 comments

Accuse me of being simplistic then, because as far as I can tell the animus against gays is directed entirely by speeches like Paladino's. There are plenty of times and places where homosexuality was uncontroversial so the presence of gay bashing must be determined by societal factors (assuming it's not completely random), and I'm not sure what factor could be more obvious than opinion leaders explicitly saying gays are bad.

- Simon Greenwood

October 10, 2010 at 9:36pm

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More disturbing is that the speech was apparently well received by the Hasidism. Seems the black hat bigots are tired of raging against bike lanes and find gays a more rewarding target.

- misterbones

October 10, 2010 at 9:48pm

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Why is it so distasteful for liberals to be exposed to deeply religious people? I find it so offensive that TNR can not bear to waste an opportunity to join the NYT in bashing Carl Paladino. I just read the story as reported by the NYT, the NY Daily News, and Associated Press. At least the NYT had the grace, notwithstanding the provocative headline at this moment, to include this "...During his appearance at the synagogue, with reporters in attendance, Mr. Paladino said: “Don’t misquote me as wanting to hurt homosexual people in any way. That would be a dastardly lie.” ..." Of course, the NYT has already revised their article twice in the last hour, now adding at the end "A recent CNN poll found that 58 percent of people in New York were in favor of gay marriage." so who knows what it will say by tomorrow? The Daily News mentioned Paladino also discussed education, but that would not be newsworthy because that is only an issue that affects the entire state. News flash - that CNN poll is wrong. If enough New Yorkers are not already too depressed to vote when they have no real choice (Andrew Cuomo always has an unnopposed primary - why is that?), you might discover that a majority of New Yorkers do not think the governor should be living with a woman he is not married to, who is not the mother of his children. What kind of example does that set? At least Bloomberg has so many residences that no one really knows if he is living with his female companion. In other words, New York is NOT populated by as many liberals as you think. We await the day when the NYT stops being Prince Andrew's public relations arm and actually focusses on his complete inability to be an effective governor as long as he thinks increasing spending and taxes is still a solution. New York is the Greece of America - a complete fiscal nuclear bomb with nothing much left to tax.

- K2K

October 10, 2010 at 10:06pm

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The Bronx attack was horrific. WHAT WAS UNSEEMLY is that the media felt compelled to publish the names of the victims of the attacks, and the names of those arrested. The woman who was so brutally attacked in 1989 - the "Central Park jogger" - had her privacy until she was ready, in 2003, to have her public moment. If equal rights is the real issue, should not victim privacy also apply to these homophobic hate crimes? As to the gang who was arrested, how will they get a fair trial, having already been convicted in the press? The young men who were convicted in the Central Park jogger attack were later found innocent in 2002, years after they were convicted and incarcerated. I think New York should start having statewide referendums, using Oregon's system of mail-in voting. Then we would really know what the people of New York want from the state constitution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_Jogger_case

- K2K

October 10, 2010 at 10:12pm

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@K2K: “Don’t misquote me as wanting to hurt homosexual people in any way. That would be a dastardly lie.” ..." So, seperate but equal?

- NR409654

October 10, 2010 at 10:46pm

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You are a piece of work, K2K. This is not about liberals being exposed to religious people, it is about liberals and many others being exposed to bigots. The categories of bigots and religious people vector together sometimes, unfortunately.

- liberal reformer

October 10, 2010 at 11:28pm

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libref: the only reason the NYT broke the story was because Paladino was speaking with ultra-Orthodox Jews. So far, the story has had two different photos to highlight the rabbis. Do you think Paladino would have said anything different at an African-American Baptist Church in Brooklyn, or an Hispanic Evangelical church in Bronx? No, but the NYT would never have covered THOSE venues. The NYT hates the ultra-Orthodox Jews (and the Russians) who now make Israel such a "right-wing" electorate. So I am sure the NYT will do their next hatchet job for the Democrats on any Republican candidate who dares to venture to Brighton Beach. The audacity of a Republican campaigning in the outer boroughs! If the NYT had ONE story about Chuck Schumer's re-election in the last three weeks, maybe I would not be so disgusted with the NYT and all the blindly-bigoted-liberalism they spew without any pretense. If I had not just read the story, I would have ignored Chotiner as I try to stay in The Spine until my subscription expires. But this post is an act of sickening bigotry. Every story has two sides...and gratuituous-name-calling is so counter-productive.

- K2K

October 10, 2010 at 11:54pm

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All I can say is, if this is not a macaca moment, I don't know what would be ...

- NR409654

October 10, 2010 at 11:58pm

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I'm just left baffled, wondering why on God's green earth any one adult's desire to have sexual or romantic relations with any particular other adult human being should be an appropriate theme for an address by someone applying for the job of governor of the State of New York, which (as K2K accurately points out) has a number of other problems waiting to be addressed.

- ironyroad

October 11, 2010 at 1:19am

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Same-sex marriage is a very contentious political issue within the ultra-orthodox Jewish communities of Borough Park and Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Back story on the politics of same-sex marriage amongst the ultra-Orthodox of Brooklyn (for all I know, the ultra Orthodox of Rockland County are united in their opposition) here: http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/new_york/paladino_reads_anti_gay_remarks_prepared_yehuda_levin_brooklyn The other reason Paladino might have gone along with the suggested comments is that it really is a major concern for many other New York tribes which are 49% Catholic and 13% Jewish, maybe half are Orthodox and Hasidim. And, you would be very surprised at the numbers of Evangelical Protestants in the Bronx,where several of the Hispanic politicians are also opposed to both same-sex marriage and partial birth abortion. They are mostly DINOs, to insure the Medicaid gravy train keeps flowing to the Bronx through their collective power in Albany, playing on liberal guilt. The Cuomo campaign had already accused Paladino of being anti-semitic, and various other Dems made THAT an issue by clling their GOp opponents to denounce Paladino. Andrew really needs every Jewish vote he can get since it looks like the Italian vote (15%) will be split. The NY Democrats have made abortion rights a major issue to drive voter turnout to help Gillibrand for US Senate and Schneiderman for AG. It's not like any NY Democrat wants Obama to show up - in fact, Schumer does not even mention he is a Democrat in his tv ads, hoping people think he is the Party of Chuck. Big mistake for the NY Dems to make this election about identity politics, social issues, and personalities. Every week, another congressional district goes into play. Now up to 14 of 29 require the Democratic incumbent to actually campaign and debate. Dems Statewide candidates HAVE to get NYC voters energized to run up enough votes. Good luck with that. The Brooklyn African-Americans did not even show up for Andrew's Harlem pow-pow, and the Harlem voters are not exactly enthusiastic about re-electing Charlie Rangel. Plus, Charles Barron is running for governor. He could steal a chunk of black Brooklyn away from Andrew. New York spends twice per capita for every person on Medicaid and every public school student than the rest of the country. TWICE PER CAPITA. Where is all that money going? I believe turnout for the competitive congressional contests and state senate will drive this election, and it will be interesting to see how many voters decide to NOT vote for governor. None of the above, or one of the other candidates.

- K2K

October 11, 2010 at 3:15am

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NR409654 "All I can say is, if this is not a macaca moment, I don't know what would be ..." not even close to a macaca moment in New York, except for Manhattan, and bits of Brooklyn and some suburbs. That would leave about 15 million other New Yorkers shrugging it off to the obsession with political correctness amongst the elite who think the other 15 million are racist ignorant Islamaphobic, homophobic, bigots. Oops, the Muslims are homophobic, so who knows what they think.

- K2K

October 11, 2010 at 3:26am

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I think it's hilarious that K2K, the unhinged ideologue, is claiming that "every story has two sides".

- Simon Greenwood

October 11, 2010 at 7:43am

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I've known 3 Orthodox Jews in my life and 2 of them hate homosexuals, so maybe Paladino had a legitimate reason to believe he was speaking to a sympathetic audience. The problem is that you're never just speaking to the people in front of you anymore. Nowadays, you're speaking to anyone with a TV or an internet connection. Paladino is dragging down the entire GOP ticket in the state. The Dems may get creamed everywhere else, but New York is going to be a Democratic rout.

- DC Spence

October 11, 2010 at 8:44am

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Credit K2K with possibly the funniest line I've ever read at TNR: "I try to stay in The Spine until my subscription expires." That is absolute gold.

- DC Spence

October 11, 2010 at 8:47am

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- K2K wonders "Why is it so distasteful for liberals to be exposed to deeply religious people?" [Hint: Wall of Separation? Constitution? Government? State support of an established religion?]

Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual. Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the "wall of separation between church and state," therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society. - Thomas Jefferson, to the Virginia Baptists (1808)

- michaelg

October 11, 2010 at 10:01am

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DC Spence "Paladino is dragging down the entire GOP ticket in the state." I agree that Paladino is sowing way too much controversy that enables a distraction from the real issues. I wish the two men who are running for Lieutenant Governor could trade places with the flawed candidates for governor. CuomoJr/Schneiderman(AG) certainly do not offer any inspiration to voters. Gillibrand is in her first statewide race, and, so far, is carrying the burden as "top of the ticket". Schumer risks an October surprise by keeping the fact that HE is also on the ballot this year such a big secret - a near total media blackout. The competitive congressional contests and state senate will drive New York's election turnout, and those are the contests that really count. And even more New Yorkers (who can) will vote with their feet, and move.

- K2K

October 11, 2010 at 10:26am

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By the way, I don't think many people object to Mr Paladino because he's religious. I'm a church-goer and my objection to Mr Paladino isn't that he, like me, honors and believes in the fundamental tenets of Christianity. I object to Mr Paladino because he's a crazy, ignorant bigot. Similarly, my objection to the Orthodox Jews who cheered Mr Paladino's lunacy is not that they are passionate about their religion. My objection, again, is that they are crazy, ignorant bigots. I think that's true of most progressives, whether they are religious or not.

- DC Spence

October 11, 2010 at 10:27am

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maybe Simon Greenwood is correct - I am such an "unhinged ideologue" that I am still open to casting my protest vote for governor to Charles Barron, former Black Panther on his own Freedom Party line. Barron made quite an impression when we met. Shame on me for protesting the way the NY Dems pre-select candidates, eroding the concept of democracy. Did young Andrew return the $85,000 in campaign contributions to Koch and his wife? Shame on me for being horrified by the constant discovery of yet another corrupt Albany Dem (Brooklyn Assemblyman Vito Lopez this time).

- K2K

October 11, 2010 at 10:37am

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Calling people "crazy ignorant bigots" for their religious beliefs is also bigotry. I am totally secular, always astounded/troubled by conservative social views, but name-calling only stifles dialog. It is the NYT that projects their contempt for religious people, especially Jews. Their Sunday Real Estate section featured "If you are thinking of living in Borough Park". Written as if they were visiting a zoo for Hasidim. The NYT never delves into the Hispanic Evangelicals, who are extreme in their opposition to abortion. THAT would be politically incorrect.

- K2K

October 11, 2010 at 10:46am

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- K2K wrote, "It is the NYT that projects their contempt for religious people, especially Jews." I don't live in New York but I'd resent if the government force me to read the NYT. Maybe someone with connections can see to it that K2K isn't forced to subscribe to views he doesn't hold. Would a tinfoil hat be protection so those ideas wouldn't penetrate his consciousness?

- michaelg

October 11, 2010 at 11:16am

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FINAL NYT Print edition, change of headline to: "Paladino Laces Speech With Antigay Remarks" [and added to the end] "...The back-and-forth between the two campaigns took a strange turn late on Sunday, when Mr. Caputo suggested that, on Aug. 20, a Cuomo staff member had referred to two gay male aides to Mr. Paladino as “girls.” The aides were accompanying a Paladino volunteer dressed in a duck costume, and blowing duck calls, to call attention to what the Paladino campaign said was Mr. Cuomo’s habit of ducking issues. According to Mr. Caputo, the aides were approached by the Cuomo staff member and told: “If you girls don’t get out of here I’m going to shove those duck calls down your throats.” Mr. Caputo said the encounter was “likely a hate crime since the Cuomo staffer clearly referenced their sexuality in his threat.” The Cuomo campaign did not respond late Sunday. " michaelg: I read a range of news sources, but the NYT consistently since 1970. Observing how different media sources cover one story used to be considered open-minded. When the NYT starts charging for online access, I shall have to break my 40-year affinity because it is just not worth the money for what is still good news coverage in Business and Arts&Leisure.

- K2K

October 11, 2010 at 11:50am

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I understood Paladino's "valid option" language as follows. He is equally romantically and sexually attracted to men and women, but wisely chose women. He simply wants to know why others can't do the same.

- agentzero

October 11, 2010 at 11:53am

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deeply religious? Paladino? He of the bestiality jokes and photos? There are a whole host of deeply religious people who somehow manage not to denigrate entire classes of people. methinks this is just sour grapes about the fact that Paladino is likely to lose even though he hates the ground zero mosque and thus deserves to be president.

- miceelf

October 11, 2010 at 12:10pm

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sorry K2K, there is no way to defend this: [Being homosexual] is not how god created us, and that's not the example that we should be showing our children. Children would be much better off and much more successful getting married and raising a family than being gay. And I don't want them to be brainwashed into thinking that homosexuality is an equally valid and successful option. It isn't. One, he presumes to know the will of God when all scientific evidence shows that God indeed does create gays, and gay animals for that matter as well. the Church doesn’t consider being gay an option, it is the action that is an option. Only a fool believes anyone would “choose” to be gay. I am sure there are a lot of teens who think “being ostracized, bullied, afraid, that sounds like the lifestyle for me.” I am sure the rash of teen gay suicides must warm Palidion's heart since they won’t be able to then act on their lifestyle anymore and therefore hurt his delicate sensibilities. They guy truly is a vile jackass.

- blackton

October 11, 2010 at 12:56pm

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blackton: I am following how the media is covering this week's demonization of Paladino. I did not agree with him. But, Andrew Cuomo is nowhere to be seen. Name-calling through surrogates is not an election strategy. Meanwhile, Paladino was on the Today show clarifying his issues by citing the public displays by some in the Gay Pride parade, which most likely resonated with a lot of people. Just because I refuse to vote for Andrew Cuomo does not mean I am eager to defend Carl on social issues or his language. I would vote for a dead cat before I cast a another vote for another Cuomo. I continue to find it irresponsible of the media to name and pre-convict the young men accused of the torture in the Bronx because I remember how they did the same with the kids wrongly convicted in the Central Park jogger attack of 1989. It is even more reprehensible that the victim's names and addresses were made public when female rape cvictims are shielded. The fact that the New York Democrats are making social issues their dominant theme in order to drive liberal turnout opens the Dems up to counter-attack in a state where the more conservative voters are the majority. Mostly, I find it irresponsible and childish at how Chotiner jumped on THIS story last night, highlighting the sentence that Paladino did NOT say, without the context of the local political civil war amongst the Hasidim of Brooklyn. Looks like Peretz is on the attack again of the Haredi of Israel. Like these attacks are going to make them disappear from political life...

- K2K

October 11, 2010 at 3:42pm

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K2K - would you like some cheese with that whine? So, the local newspapers here in New York aren't supposed to report what was said in the Republican candidate for Governor's on-the-record speech today? Because - let me get this straight - he gave to it Orthodox Jews? Give it a rest with the victimology. It's called "journalism." Besides, your whole premise is bull. You might want to check out today's front page (GAY BASH, just for starters, in 50 point caps) of the most famous right wing paper in the country, the New York Post.

- WandreyCer

October 11, 2010 at 4:11pm

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The NY Post has been the biggest attacker of this phony jackass from Day 1, especially his corrupt busines dealings and the fact that he's feverishly milked the govt teat for 30 years. Every other media outlet has been smoked by the Post's coverage. That would be Robert Murdoch's NY Post. He's been smoked because he's a fraud with nothing else to talk about but other people's sex lives. If you want polite press, don't run for office in New York, and certainly don't run for office as a loudmouth fool. You put a bullseye on your back. The Orthodox Jewish vicitimology is just too precious. You remind me of those irritating Hillary women in 2008, what were they called? Poor me, my (insert identity victim shtick de jour) isn't getting fair coverage (ie coverage flattering to me) because I'm a victim. It never ends. Good work NY Post.

- WandreyCer

October 11, 2010 at 4:21pm

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WandreyCer: that would be RUPERT Murdoch's NY Post. Your usual total misunderstanding of the words I write is noted. I follow media echo, absence or presence of real journalism, and how name-calling to demonize any out-of-lockstep response is not a useful tactic. Paladino is deliberately provoking Andrew, in part to get the free media. Duh. Most voters in New York would prefer news coverage of the looming deficit crisis in New York. What happens in July 2011 when the Federal stimulus aid ends?

- K2K

October 11, 2010 at 4:52pm

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Why would anyone listen to this man's lecture on sexual morality?

- MikeB.

October 11, 2010 at 5:49pm

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K2K - I note to how again, you acknowledge nothing of what I protested. You change the subject when it suits you back to the concrete issues of New York. Of course nothing Carl Paladino talks about matters in the least - ie, the deficit, real issues. Um - what does this have to do with Orthodox Jews being victimized again? How did I misunderstand your claims of victimology? As I understand your case: the poor religious folk are once again victims of the liberal media. How is this so when the most effective and substantive crtiques of Paladino come from the most conservative paper in the region? How would you propose the NYT and the rest of the NY media cover Paladino? By ignoring the speeches he hands out verbatim hours before he makes them (as he did in this case)? By ignoring he statements he makes willingly to them? There are no victims here.

- WandreyCer

October 11, 2010 at 7:17pm

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The greatest gift to the national GOP would be a Governor Cuomo, forced to beg Washington for more billions for NY Medicaid in 2011. THAT would expedite repeal of Obamacare even if the Dems manage to maintain slim majorities. Reminds me of the 1976 headlines : "Ford to NYC: Drop Dead" NY Medicaid expanded eligibility is the model buried in Obamacare that has so many states filing lawsuits to avoid a huge unfunded mandate. wandrey: you skim read. The only time I used the word 'victims' in this thread was in reference to the three men brutalized in the Bronx. I rarely use the word victim', and never in relation to any multiculturalist whining. anyway, thanks for the insight as to what the NYPost is up to - not that you knew you were passing on an insight. Hint: NYPost bashes Paladino whilst endorsing Republicans in other contests, who are thus given separation from Paladino, shutting down the Democrat tactic of demanding repudiation of Carl from every other Republican candidate, a tactic that had already failed.

- K2K

October 11, 2010 at 8:26pm

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Wand: as previous exchanges with K2K attest, he twists and reformulates and narrows and bobs and weaves and whines and attacks and sulks until you give up. He reminds me of the - not so good - linguistics student who took one of my courses, and proceeded to try to demonstrate his verbal skills by making one "nuanced" comment after another, and then when challenged, accusing me and his classmates of "misunderstanding" him, and then going on a tangent and attacking again. At some point, I pointed out to him that, "meaning in language is determined by context; if you are concerned that your specific words are misunderstood, you should pay attention to the context in which you utter them". And here is the concrete example: "Have you seen the movie, Samurai? The Japanese fought so ferciously", is perhaps a sound statement in the context of a movie review; spoken in a human rights class about the legality and morality of Hiroshima, as in fact he did, demonstrated deep mental illness. And so K2K's response to your "victimology" point, that he used the word victim only in respect of the victims of the attack. Of course he knows what you mean; he knows that you and the rest of us know what you mean; to insist on this point only demonstrates contempt for his audience. A true resident of the Spine.

- icarusr

October 12, 2010 at 12:16pm

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I'm not actually sure why K2K has a problem with poor people who are also sick. ? If there is a better alternative to Medicaid can we hear it please? Meanwhile it's just as offensive to continually imply that people WANT to be sick and poor - especially in a terrible recession - as it is to bash gays or be antisemitic or whatever. There's an ugly classist undertone to some of the so-called "discourse" lately. What IS going on out there?

- Sophia

October 13, 2010 at 2:43am

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Sophia: "I'm not actually sure why K2K has a problem with poor people who are also sick.?" Sophia: In New York, one in four residents are on Medicaid because the eligibility standards are the broadest of any state. These broader standerds is what Obamacare, in part, will impose on the other states, although Oregon's Democratic Senator Ron Wyden advised Oregon how to get an exemption. Obamacare's expansion of Medicaid eligibility is opposed by a number of states because the states have to pay half the cost. In NY (and perhaps other states), people routinely, and legally, transfer assets to other family members in order to become poor enough to qualify for Medicaid's longterm care benefits, which, for some unknown reason, are twice the cost per recipient than New Jersey or Connecticut - other high labor cost states. New York does not seriously negotiate prescription drug prices, and Medicaid recipients can have any brand name med they want. No one has to choose the generic alternative as required by most people with employer-provided insurance. I add that Massachusetts has a law that requires pharmacies to use the absolute lowest cost generic unless the doctor specifially specifies "No Substitution". You can not generalize about "poor people who are also sick". One new Medicaid in New York benefit is smoking cessation for children, a worthy program but is it necessary when half the state budget goes to Medicaid and New York is the highest taxed state in America? One would think that 1) illegal to sell cigarettes to anyone under age 25, and 2) $10 per pack in NYC with all the extra taxes, would be enough to discourage children from smoking cigarettes. So very interesting to read such vicious personal attacks from people who think they are liberal. Because WandreyCer's comments are incoherent to me, I am attacked for failing to respond. So much like Obama's "guilty until proven innocent" crusade against the U.S. Chamber of Commerce... Congratulations TNR: in less than one year, you have converted a third-generation registered Democrat into an Independent voter who will NEVER vote for anyone who even uses the word liberal or progressive. Such intolerant name-calling bullies...

- K2K

October 13, 2010 at 11:13pm

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Thank you for the response K2K. Let me ask this - perhaps the need for medical care is greater than you suppose? People really are poor you know - lots of us. We're not the enemy. What's happening now is a shanda - and it's also overburdening tax payers anyway since people who can't pay just go to the emergency room and if there isn't enough insurance - well, what's the alternative? Let people die in the street? This has actually happened. More people than you might realize simply don't go to the doctor at all due to lack of money and/or recognition of a cold, simple fact: we couldn't afford expensive treatment, period - if we get cancer, well we're toast - so a lot of Americans die prematurely including people with a lot to give. Yes there are lifesaving treatments available but they cost six figures for starters - Plus, a lot of people are left hanging in the breeze because the gap between Medicare and actual costs is 20% - disabled people for example generally can't afford to make up the difference as "supplemental insurance" isn't even available if you're under 65 and the cost of regular, better insurance is beyond what a poor person can afford. The fact is this: one in seven Americans lives below the poverty line. That's a FACT. This isn't a problem created by Obama Care. So I'm asking you - please consider this before you accuse people of widespread fraud - the need is real. Meanwhile I think I understand you to some degree regarding the NYT coverage of Palladino. It did seem to go out of its way to highlight the Jewish angle.

- Sophia

October 14, 2010 at 1:33pm

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Not that I don't find anti-gay politicking outrageous - I do - and I hope the religious communities will reconsider their lack of compassion. It's outrageous in this day and age.

- Sophia

October 14, 2010 at 1:34pm

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Sophia (in case you come back to a cold thread): no one can explain why per capita Medicaid costs in New York are twice as high as New Jersey or Connecticut. Everyone who lives in New York knows that the Medicaid program is out of control, including the NYT which has reported on the waste and fraud. Medicare is a totally different program, fully financed at the Federal level,and not part of the State budget which by law has to cover 50% of Medicaid.

- K2K

October 16, 2010 at 2:24pm

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