JONATHAN COHN SEPTEMBER 29, 2011
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Ever since the Solyndra story broke, I’ve been waiting for the other shoe to drop. And … I’m still waiting. The Washington Post unearthed some e-mails suggesting that Obama Administration officials lobbied the Energy Department to expedite approve of a loan for the solar panel company, which eventually went bankrupt. Obviously that was a bad idea. But corruption? Impropriety? No signs of that yet.
More damning information could still emerge. (It can take a while with these kinds of stories.) But, even if it did, it’d be the first serious suggestion of such shenanigans in this administration's initiatives – which is actually pretty remarkable when you think about it. Via the Recovery Act and other efforts at economic stimulus, the federal government under Obama's watch wrote checks for many hundreds of billions of dollars. But the Obama Administration also made a concerted effort to avoid the problems that have sometimes plagued past efforts. In the Recovery Act, for example, it required unprecedented transparency and monitored spending closely for anomalies that might suggest funny business.
The results, as noted here previously, have been impressive. According to an official audit, just 0.2 percent – that’s zero-point-two percent -- of prime and sub-contracts that the Recovery Act awarded led to “consequential investigation.” The inspector general who runs the Recovery Act transparency board told the New York Times that he believes “history will show that there was a lot less fraud in this effort that had been anticipated or that normally would occur with such a large amount of money.” Steve Ellis, who is vice president for the watchdog group Taxpayers for Common Sense, has expressed similar sentiments: "The fraud and waste element has been smaller than I think anybody anticipated.”
For now, then, the real questions Soyndra raises aren’t about ethics. They’re about economics -- specifically, the wisdom of investment in green jobs and, more generally, industrial policy.
This is an old debate, one I can’t settle here. In a nutshell, the case for programs like the one that funded Solyndra is that the market under-invests in worthy projects of considerable value to the public. Clean energy would seem to be a textbook case, given that the price of carbon-based fuels doesn’t capture the long-term damage they are causing the planet – what the economists call a “negative externality.” Brad Plumer, my former colleague, has made a good case along the lines. So has Mike Grunwald of Time magazine.
The counter-argument is that the government is lousy at picking winners and losers – that investments like Solyndra are more the rule than the exception. Maybe investing in green energy is the right thing to do, this argument goes. But government is bound to do it in the wrong way, not only wasting taxpayer dollars but, potentially, hampering innovation in the long run. Megan McArdle has made this argument, at length, for the Atlantic.
I’m more sympathetic to Grunwald and Plumer (although, to be clear, I don't have the expertise any of these writers do). Among other things, most of the loans in this program seem to have worked out. Investment inevitably involves some risk of failure. (Many of the program's loudest critics know this, by the way; plenty of Republicans have supported such loans in the past.)
I also think that the timing should count for something. At the time of the loan, the Obama Administration was doing its best to pump money into the economy, in order to create jobs. And while there may have been better ways to spend that money, there were probably worse ways, too. In fact, I would gladly have put up with a little more fraud or waste in the Recovery Act and other stimulus programs if it would have generated more jobs.
But the most persuasive argument about Solyndra I’ve seen actually comes from a critic: Andrew Samwick, the (relatively) conservative economist from Dartmouth. He agrees that the price of carbon fails to capture its negative externality, discouraging investment in alternatives. But the proper solution to that, he says, is to raise the price of carbon – i.e., with some kind of tax – rather than invest in the alternatives. (Actually, I think McArdle agrees with this, too.)
He’s probably right. The problem is that raising the price of carbon isn't politically feasible -- not right now and, quite likely, not anytime in the near future. That necessarily reduces our options to policies that are not optimal.
Maybe direct government loans are a second-best solution to the undervaluing of alternative energy. But second-best is still better than nothing.
21 comments
The case for Solyndra, for people who don't like to read: Republicans don't like industrial policy, they don't like clean energy, and they don't like Obama looking successful. If you've read http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/01/24/110124fa_fact_lizza (a great piece, by the way) it's probably already clear to you that with people like Darrell Issa who have a shaky history with both law and truth, abuse subpoena power to tie the EPA in knots, and have a history of trying to dislodge the head of state (Issa funded Gray Davis's recall), Republicans will try to throw the kitchen sink at the wall in hopes that enough sticks and makes it onto right-wing sites, Rush, and Fox.
- chaitless
September 29, 2011 at 7:35am
Cohn-less: Are you really this stupid??? 1. Solyndra was about incompetence and corruption. The Bush administration denied the loan. Obamanation, under influence from a booster/Solyndra investor granted fast-track approval. And taxpayers lost over $500B. Only a moonbat booster like yourself sees nothing wrong with Solyndra. 2. The notion that oil/fossil fuels are under-priced is pure BS. Consumers pay about 55-60 cents per gallon of gas in taxes. Given that we consumer about 139B gallons of gas -- that means $83B in gasoline taxes per year 3. Offer one shred of evidence that the 'negative externality' reflected in gas prices exceeds $83 Billion. Dare you to argue with facts.
- mr_rationale
September 29, 2011 at 9:48am
1. Taxpayers did not lose $500B on this loan. The difference between a B and an M at the end there is pretty significant. 2. The notion that pointing at a number and saying "Look how big that number is!" constitutes proof of anything is BS. Gas costs what it costs. If it's underpriced, then it's underpriced, even if the price is quite high. 3. Gas taxes are deposited in the Highway Trust Fund, which pays for interstate highway construction and maintenance. Given that we've had to supplement the HTF out of general revenues for the last couple of years, it should be obvious the tax is not even covering *that* externality, let alone the costs of global warming. (If you deny that anthropogenic global warming exists or has any costs, I'm not going to bother debating you.)
- Dausuul
September 29, 2011 at 10:27am
Oh, mr_rationale. I was worried you'd left us when Chait moved on. Here's the big question that determines whether there's a scandal or not: was the Obama administration influenced by allies/donors to give Solyndra a loan that it wouldn't have otherwise deserved? I have yet to see any real evidence of that. The company was already drawing in venture capitalists from all quarters before the federal loan guarantees came in, which suggests that it seemed worthy of investment in its own right. Now, go read Alec MacGillis's article on Rick Perry in the most recent TNR. That's crony capitalism. This isn't.
- benjamin81
September 29, 2011 at 11:04am
Has anyone surveyed venture capital firms to find out how many winners and losers they have or expect? My suspicion is that venture capital firms invest similarly to oil drilling companies. There are a lot of dry holes and a few big winners to make everyone rich. So what is the winner vs. loser ratio for government loans pursuing an industrial policy? How does it compare with venture capital firms?
- sdmcleod
September 29, 2011 at 1:33pm
Solyndra went under due to an industrial policy. Just not ours. We can debate the merits and benefits of having a solar industry as opposed to not, but to ignore that other countries are not targeting sectors to support is to engage in wishful thinking. It's becoming pretty clear that it's hard to replace those jobs that involved people making things, and other countries retain that capability through an industrial policy (Germany). We can debate whether the benefit to the economy as a whole (read: todays employed) have been worth it, but to pretend that the benefits have been equally spread is absurd. As for externalities being less than $83B, don't we wish. Here's one reference that came up in seconds of searching: http://books.google.com/books?id=7N2nHNhvFqYC&pg=PT275&lpg=PT275&dq=Ian+Parry+external+cost&source=bl&ots=zSm6IP7Uc5&sig=lGsybBwub8NZ953VeXEoTdwEn_g&hl=en&ei=Z5mETpWCAuf30gHlvonCDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Ian%20Parry%20external%20cost&f=false So lets take the low end figure of ~$1/gallon externality cost. Using Rat's figure of 139B gallons consumed per year, we're already a fair way north of of 83B in gas tax, let alone if the larger (and more realistic, as it includes local pollutant cost) of ~$2/ gallon. This of course ignores the cost (both to the affected and BP's shareholders) to say the most recent spill (>$50B IIRC), and simply having our transportation economy based on something that doesn't exactly exhibit price stability. And ignores the fine point about that the Highway fund will run at a perpetual loss for the conceivable future, we're not even covering maintenance, let along anything else.
- Nari224
September 29, 2011 at 1:37pm
sdmcleod - the obvious retort is that VCs are playing with their own money, but it is an interesting question! That the government can keep something going indefinitely if it wants (see ethanol) might skew the stats, but again the the obvious response is that the government may have an interest in creating and sustaining (ideally until they become self sustaining) the changes that this support creates.
- Nari224
September 29, 2011 at 1:45pm
damsel; 1. Yes, a M not a B. Still $500M not small. My point about incompetence and corruption stands 2. Where is the proof that fossil fuels are underpriced???? Yes, pollution is a negative externality. The mobility offered by fossil fuel engine is a positive externality. Liberals can't ignore positive externalities. Well, they can and do -- but not in the real world where facts matter. Benj: Come on now. Nothing wrong with Solyndra.
- mr_rationale
September 29, 2011 at 1:54pm
Fari: Of course you ignore the positive externality that mobility based on fossil fuel engines provide. Hypothesis: The positive externality provided by mobility from fossil fuel engines in US economy >>>> negative externality of pollution from fossil fuels
- mr_rationale
September 29, 2011 at 1:59pm
"Offer one shred of evidence that the 'negative externality' reflected in gas prices exceeds $83 Billion. Dare you to argue with facts." "Liberals can't ignore positive externalities. Well, they can and do -- but not in the real world where facts matter" Are you fucking serious Rat? You wouldn't know a fact if it hit you in the face with two hands. Here are a few FACTS illustrating the negative externalities that are tied into Gas prices that exceed $83 billion that we pay both with our wallets and health that are not collected at the gas pump. The ICTA calculated the actual cost of gas at $15/gal. http://www.icta.org/press/release.cfm?news_id=12 So if use the ICTA numbers we're at $1.68 Trillion dollars in direct and indirect costs of sucking on the tail pipes of fossil fuel engines. The only positive you can come up with is mobility? Wow. Brilliant. Other negative externalities that moonbat, rentier parasite, Conservatives ignore: 1. Air pollution 2. Water pollution 3. Fractured & decimated natural habitat by roads, pipelines, drilling, fracking, spills, etc. 4. War. 3. Infrastructure costs (auto highways and bridges) 4. Natural resource depletion 5. War. 6. Food insecurity 7. Wildlife and indigenous population displacement, genocide and destruction. 8. War. 9. Dioxin poisoning in breast milk 10. Other health related issues caused by the extraction, manufacturing, processing, distribution, and use of oil and gas. Why one day of funding for the Iraq War to secure precious oil reserves costs the US taxpayer $720M a day. That's so we can falsely "subsidize" $3 gas. What can we buy with one day of the Iraq war at $720M a day? Build 84 New Elementary Schools Hire 12,478 Elementary School Teachers Feed 1,153,846 Children with Free School Lunches Give 34,904 Four-Year Scholarships for University Students Provide 163,525 People with Health Care Provide 423,529 Children with Health Care Provide 6,482 Families with Homes Supply 1,274,336 Homes with Renewable Energy
- singlspeed
September 29, 2011 at 3:52pm
"Offer one shred of evidence that the 'negative externality' reflected in gas prices exceeds $83 Billion. Dare you to argue with facts." "Liberals can't ignore positive externalities. Well, they can and do -- but not in the real world where facts matter" Are you fucking serious Rat? You wouldn't know a fact if it hit you in the face with two hands. Here are a few FACTS illustrating the negative externalities that are tied into Gas prices that exceed $83 billion that we pay both with our wallets and health that are not collected at the gas pump. The ICTA calculated the actual cost of gas at $15/gal. http://www.icta.org/press/release.cfm?news_id=12 So if we use the ICTA numbers we're at $1.68 Trillion dollars in direct and indirect costs of sucking on the tail pipes of fossil fuel engines. The only positive you can come up with is mobility? Wow. Brilliant. Other negative externalities that moonbat, rentier parasite, Conservatives ignore: 1. Air pollution 2. Water pollution 3. Fractured & decimated natural habitat by roads, pipelines, drilling, fracking, spills, etc. 4. War. 3. Infrastructure costs (auto highways and bridges) 4. Natural resource depletion 5. War. 6. Food insecurity 7. Wildlife and indigenous population displacement, genocide and destruction. 8. War. 9. Dioxin poisoning in breast milk 10. Other health related issues caused by the extraction, manufacturing, processing, distribution, and use of oil and gas. Why one day of funding for the Iraq War to secure precious oil reserves costs the US taxpayer $720M a day. That's so we can falsely "subsidize" $3 gas. What can we buy with one day of the Iraq war at $720M a day? Build 84 New Elementary Schools Hire 12,478 Elementary School Teachers Feed 1,153,846 Children with Free School Lunches Give 34,904 Four-Year Scholarships for University Students Provide 163,525 People with Health Care Provide 423,529 Children with Health Care Provide 6,482 Families with Homes Supply 1,274,336 Homes with Renewable Energy
- singlspeed
September 29, 2011 at 3:54pm
So if we use the ICTA numbers we're at $1.68 Trillion dollars PER year in direct and indirect costs of sucking on the tail pipes of fossil fuel engines. The only positive you can come up with is mobility? Wow. Brilliant. Other negative externalities that moonbat, rentier parasite, Conservatives ignore: 1. Air pollution 2. Water pollution 3. Fractured & decimated natural habitat by roads, pipelines, drilling, fracking, spills, etc. 4. War. 3. Infrastructure costs (auto highways and bridges) 4. Natural resource depletion 5. War. 6. Food insecurity 7. Wildlife and indigenous population displacement, genocide and destruction. 8. War. 9. Dioxin poisoning in breast milk 10. Other health related issues caused by the extraction, manufacturing, processing, distribution, and use of oil and gas. Why one day of funding for the Iraq War to secure precious oil reserves costs the US taxpayer $720M a day. That's so we can falsely "subsidize" $3 gas. What can we buy with one day of the Iraq war at $720M a day? Build 84 New Elementary Schools Hire 12,478 Elementary School Teachers Feed 1,153,846 Children with Free School Lunches Give 34,904 Four-Year Scholarships for University Students Provide 163,525 People with Health Care Provide 423,529 Children with Health Care Provide 6,482 Families with Homes Supply 1,274,336 Homes with Renewable Energy
- singlspeed
September 29, 2011 at 3:57pm
rat: Not sure if you've traveled many other places, but I haven't noted a significant lack of mobility in countries where gas costs a lot more. They just use more fuel efficient forms of transport, and don't worry, the rich can still drive their German imports (or domestics depending on where you are). If we're talking about the mobility of individuals, you may have a point given our geographic size. But that's a freedom, which while nice, isn't exactly free. If we're talking about goods and the overall economy, that's what railways are for.
- Nari224
September 29, 2011 at 5:02pm
Interesting post, single, but the war part is loony. People like you tell me that we went to war in Iraq for "the oil." OK, what about "the oil?" It's still going to market at the world market price, same as it did when good ol' Saddam sold it. We haven't "secured oil reserves" by invading Iraq - the Iraqis, under whatever regime, have an interest in selling their oil, as it does them no good in the ground. And so they do. Yes, the US spent much $$ on the invasion of Iraq. We now spend much less. But none of it had to do with oil, which continues to flow to market as it always has.
- butchie b
September 29, 2011 at 5:12pm
Actually butchie, we did "secure the oil" for US and allied oil interests. Not so much French, German, anyone else who sat on the sidelines, if you get my drift.
- Nari224
September 29, 2011 at 5:39pm
butchie... Do you honestly believe that the first Iraq war and the second invasion had little to nothing to do with securing our oil interests? You honestly think that? Bush 1 & 2 may have never said it out right, but we didn't go into Iraq to "promote" Democracy. We didn't go into Iraq to take the fight to terrorists. And the reason the oil continues to flow to market from a geographic location that has been politically unstable since WW 1 is because we have 'secured' the pipelines through our military presence & political bribery.
- singlspeed
September 29, 2011 at 5:43pm
"...But corruption? Impropriety?" Every administration since your or anyone elses Independence has involved corruption and impropriety. Maybe Chait had a point. They're putting O'bama on notice. Even if he wins, he'll have a special prosecutor all over his ass.
- IggyPop
September 29, 2011 at 8:45pm
single-brain-cell: Are you really this stupid? The report you cite is from 1998 and calculates the subsidies for gas (not including actual cost of purchasing gas) to total $1.7Trillion. In 1998, GDP was $8.4Trillion. So, you are arguing the cost of gas = 20% of GDP. And the cost of gas subsidies in 1998 exceeds the GDP from the manufacturing sector (at 1.32T), and every other sector of the economy. You are a joke. What part of Gov do you work in? Have I seen you in "Moonbats gone mad"
- mr_rationale
September 30, 2011 at 9:59am
Nary-a-clue: You miss the point. Engines powered by fossil fuels, provide numerous positive externalities - mobility just one example. Liberals never discuss the positive externalities. Are they unaware of them?
- mr_rationale
September 30, 2011 at 10:05am
mr. rat glosses over that the true cost of gasoline in 1998 was calculated at $15/gal. He further can't believe his very own calculations that indeed illustrate that the true cost of gasoline exceeded the GDP from the manufacturing sector. Again mr. rat. What planet do you live on? What does the manufacturing sector use to run on? Wait for it....wait for it....Gas. Or do you think the current economy runs on the rainbow dreams and unicorn dust that constitutes the magical market thinking of conservatives. While you sit there and pretend that government subsidization of the oil & gas industry for the last 100 years doesn't exist and never existed. And you completely ignore all of the negative externalities that come with relying upon fossil fuels. Are conservatives unaware of them?
- singlspeed
September 30, 2011 at 10:34am
Ratster - no one is arguing that engines powered by fossil fuels don't provide positive externalities, although I'd note that you're declining to provide them. Or quantify their value, which I'm guessing is going to be a bit hard to measure, as they're mostly increased convenience. There are plenty of other ways to get around, and as I noted and you apparently ignored, plenty of other people still manage this despite taxing their gasoline at markedly higher rates than us.
- Nari224
September 30, 2011 at 3:19pm