The New Republic

Enough.

- JakeH

December 14, 2012 at 5:21pm

Just once, I want to see a shooting rampage in the NRA's HQ, the NSSFF or some such lobbying brothel then in an open session of Congress where most of them are massacred. Either way you'd get change at the top. I do find it so obscenely hypocritical the bastards won't allow guns in their own chambers, showing their liars, cowards and hypocrites. The whole lot of them deserve what they dish out, the receiving end of the bullet they all love so much.

- tmmats

December 14, 2012 at 5:50pm

Children.

- Sophia

December 14, 2012 at 6:50pm

One reason there's never been a shooting rampage at NRA HQ is because several folks there are armed. Cowardly shooters such as the punk in Conneticut won't attack a target that will fight back. Why does the totalitarian Left adamantly refuse to acknowledge that firearms are used in the self-defense role each & every year far many times more in the USA than they are criminally misused? Even the anti-gun Clinton Justice Dept. acknowledged that firearms are used by ordinary citizens each & every year in the self-defense role upwards of one & a quarter million times vs roughly 48,000 criminal misuses of firearms per year. With approximately 80 million gun owners in the USA there's no chance the totalitarian Left is going to manage to outlaw firearms, the Constitution aside. Oh yes, I know a bit about firearms. For one thing, whilst I was growing up my parents gave a .22 rifle, a 20 ga. shotgun & then a .22 revolver, all before I'd reached age 17. For another, I was WIA by gunshot in Viet-Nam & made a left hemiplegic. Nonetheless I remain fond of firearms & own a couple of them.

- LoachDrive

December 14, 2012 at 7:13pm

Small children, Sophia.

- magboy47.

December 14, 2012 at 7:57pm

Loachdrive, please. A few years back a few guys were loaded up with body armor that it took a while for even the police to take them out. They had to shoot one guy in the lower leg. And if they did go there it would be an even bigger massacre as the gun nuts would all start shooting each other, it would be practically a comedy.

- blackton

December 14, 2012 at 8:03pm

What a nightmare. I have 2 kids in elementary school and the security there is pretty lacking. You have to be buzzed in but it seems pretty pro forma, they can't see you. Besides, if you are carrying concealed weapons they couldn't see those especially with winter being here. At my Uni in Mexico the guards all were armed and there was a huge fence around the campus. I liked the security of it even though I never felt it was remotely needed (also considering there was a special forces base in town minutes away). Are we really going to need this in America now? Freaking NRA, they are a bunch of terrorists holding America hostage to their gun fetish. I wish we could revoke the second amendment. And I know you will have lunatics claiming revoking the second amendment is tantamount to totalitarianism (I have seen totalitarianism up close and getting rid of the second amendment is not it unless you consider Canada and Great Britain totalitarian states as they have scrict gun control)

- blackton

December 14, 2012 at 8:20pm

I think LoachDrive is quite right. If all those 8-to-10-year-olds had received early weapons training in primary school and had been issued with special kid-sized automatic pistols, they would have been easily able to take down the killer and save the day. Obvious really.

- ironyroad

December 14, 2012 at 8:22pm

Loach, I grew up in a gun culture, too. And I did well on the rifle range in the Air Force (even though I was in Intelligence). I'm sorry that you were wounded in action, but I'm glad that you're merely fond of guns and own only a couple of them. It's people who are in love with guns who are the problem in America. I have studied how police states come about for decades, and I agree with you that citizens should be allowed to have any number of guns for self-defense. But you and others are wrong when you say the "totalitarian Left" is going to take a single law-abiding citizen's gun away. That only EVER happens after a police state is firmly in power. And if you think we are in a totalitarian police state under Obama, you'd better go back to school. You don't even know what the word "totalitarian" means. The NRA assured us that Obama would take away every citizen's guns in his first term. When he didn't confiscate a single gun, they said he was waiting to get re-elected, so he could do it with impunity in his second term. Uh-huh. I'm holding my breath. We will never have a Left totalitarian government in America. If any guns are confiscated in the U.S., it will be done by the Right. If the Republicans manage to get back into the Oval Office and crash Wall Street again, there will be anarchy in the streets. And Republicans will be only too glad to come and take people's guns. They have indicated strongly that they want to be the only party with any significant political power in the U.S. The next time Wall Street crashes under a Republican administration (and that only happens under Republicans), look for tens of millions of Americans to be saying to someone in the house, "They're he-e-re." And it won't be "totalitarian" Democrats pounding on the door.

- magboy47.

December 14, 2012 at 8:27pm

I think when somebody kills 20 young children to get even with his mother, it's time to at least start a national dialogue about people who are in love with guns. And when the loony leaders of the NRA fight back, they could be publicly branded as child killers. They would at least be enabling such killers. Think of all the parents and families who are suffering today, because a gun lover wanted to express himself in the only way he knew how. Maybe there should be courses in school to teach children that there are other ways than violence to express frustration. That might eventually save the life of somebody's mother and a bunch of helpless little kids.

- magboy47.

December 14, 2012 at 8:48pm

Does he expect kid in first grade to carry guns? Loach need to be in a farm for the mentally disabled.

- arnon1

December 14, 2012 at 10:19pm

"A Gunman, Recalled as Intelligent and Shy, Who Left Few Footprints in Life" By DAVID M. HALBFINGER Published: December 14, 2012 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/nyregion/adam-lanza-an-enigma-who-is-now-identified-as-a-mass-killer.html?_r=0 [suggests Adam had Asperger's. Which reminded me of "Anthropologist on Mars" by Oliver Sacks, his paradigm-shifting exploration of autism, incorporating a profile of Temple Grandin. And then I wondered what happens when someone with that disconnect of 'appropriate' social skills graduates high school and maybe, just maybe, retreats into avatar-quest style video games. the ones where players start thinking the game is reality. That is used as a storyline in tv shows like NCIS. not excusing, just understanding. CT has tough gun control laws, so where did they come from...]

- K2K

December 14, 2012 at 11:24pm

"CT has tough gun control laws, so where did they come from...]" How about South Carolina, or some other State? We do live in the same country. btw: are you against gun control K2K?

- arnon1

December 14, 2012 at 11:28pm

The most horrific thing is the age, a lot of these kids might have been kindergartners (or even younger as they have a preschool as well). I have a 4 year old. It crushes me to think of him dying in such a way. I nearly lost my middle son last year to drowning in a public swimming pool and if not for an alert other parent who knows, as he just walked to an area just over his head. I don't know if he would have drowned for sure as he never lost consciousness or had to be revived but you take your eye off a kid for one minute, and I had nightmares about it for months and he was terrified of water for a while and it cost a number of year round lessons to get him back, now he can swim fine. But that, as terrible as it was, would have been a freak accident, this is something far worse. I can give my kids swimming lessons, what can I do about this? It breaks my heart to think of those parents.

- blackton

December 15, 2012 at 12:27am

I know. How will the parents survive this? We have to do a better job. We can't let a gun lobby, powerful as it is, control us. It's too much. We have had several shootings this year, mass shootings. It isn't just the guns though. It's a lack of help for people. We are so busy calling each other moochers we've lost sight of the fact that we are here to create a community and public welfare is intrinsic to that, it's a vital part of living in a civilized society. Lately it seems that some of us want to dismantle our civilization, in the name of "freedom" yet. Well their rights to murderous hardware aren't worth our children's lives.

- Sophia

December 15, 2012 at 2:41am

The gunman's mother collected guns. The gunman had a history of extreme tantrums. The mother was the fist killed. The gunman went to the school where his mother was a teacher. The gunman proceeded to do the massacre. Incredible horror. And in China attacks of school children by knives has been a recurring problem. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/world/asia/man-stabs-22-children-in-ch... Man Stabs 22 Children in China By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Published: December 14, 2012 BEIJING (AP) — A man wielding a knife wounded 22 children and one adult outside a primary school in central China as students were arriving for classes on Friday, the police said. The attack, in the village of Chengping in Henan Province, happened shortly before 8 a.m., said a police officer from Guangshan County, where the village is located. The attacker, Min Yingjun, 36, was subdued by security guards and taken into custody by the police, said the officer, who declined to give her name, which is customary among Chinese civil servants. Guards have been posted at schools across China after a spate of attacks in recent years. A Guangshan County hospital administrator said there were no deaths among the nine students admitted to the hospital, although two badly wounded children were transferred to better-equipped hospitals outside the county. A doctor at Guangshan’s hospital of traditional Chinese medicine said that seven students had been admitted there, but that none were seriously injured. It was not clear how old the wounded children were, but Chinese primary school students are generally 6 to 11. A notice on the Guangshan County government’s Web site confirmed the number of wounded and said an emergency response team had been set up to investigate the stabbings. No motive was given for the attack, which resembled a string of similar assaults against Chinese schoolchildren in 2010 that killed nearly 20 and wounded more than 50. The most recent such attack took place in August, when a man broke into a middle school in the southern city of Nanchang and stabbed two students before fleeing. Most of the attackers have been mentally disturbed men involved in personal disputes or unable to adjust to the rapid pace of social change in China, underscoring grave weaknesses in the antiquated Chinese medical system’s ability to diagnose and treat psychiatric illness. In one of the worst attacks, a man described as an unemployed, middle-aged doctor killed eight children with a knife in March 2010 to vent his anger over a thwarted romantic relationship.

- JAIMECHUCH

December 15, 2012 at 3:03am

Thank you JaimeChurch. I await more confirmation that Adam used his mother's guns to murder her at home, and then to target her students at school. It's a bit disturbing that the liberals here blame the NRA, and the conservatives (elsewhere) want to incarcerate the "mentally ill". Neither side of our partisan chasm understands why people "go postal" -the phrase that emerged when it used to be USPS employees who showed up enraged, with a gun.

- K2K

December 15, 2012 at 7:41am

latest news: "Guns used in Connecticut massacre purchased legally, registered to shooter's mother" By Julia Terruso/The Star-Ledger The Star-Ledger on December 15, 2012 at 7:24 AM, updated December 15, 2012 at 7:39 AM "The weapons used in Friday's shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newton, Conn., appear to have been legally purchased and registered to Nancy Lanza, the mother of the gunman, law enforcement officials told NBC News and the Associated Press. A law enforcement official says some guns owned by the mother of the gunman in the Connecticut elementary school rampage match the models of the guns used in the shooting, according to reports. Two 9mm handguns, one made by Glock and the other by Sig Sauer, were recovered inside the school. An AR-15-type rifle also was found at the scene, but there were conflicting reports Friday night whether it had been used in the shooting, NBC News reported. Officials told both news agencies that state police records show the woman had legally purchased five firearms and all were registered in Connecticut. Authorities are still trying to account for all the guns. The gunman, identified as Adam Lanza was clad in black and allegedly used two 9mm pistols to kill 20 small children and six adults at the school. It was unclear how many shots were fired there. In total, 28 people died in Friday's rampage, including the gunman, who was found at the scene, and a woman believed to be Nancy Lanza, found shot dead at a home in Newtown. Under Connecticut law, people under 21 are prohibited from purchasing or carrying handguns. Adam Lanza was 20. In 2011, Connecticut was rated the fifth toughest state on gun control by the pro-gun control Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. The rating system was based on a scorecard which gave points for each restriction the group favors. The state scored 58 out of the possible 100 points. Connecticut has a partial ban on possession of assault rifles, according to the Brady Campaign website. Certain brands and features are restricted. There are no restrictions on magazine capacity. New Jersey ranked number two on the list and scored a 72 out of 100 points." http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/12/guns_used_in_sandy_hook_massac.html

- K2K

December 15, 2012 at 7:53am

FRom K's link: Obviously the restrictions aren't tough enough. "In 2011, Connecticut was rated the fifth toughest state on gun control by the pro-gun control Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. The rating system was based on a scorecard which gave points for each restriction the group favors. The state scored 58 out of the possible 100 points. Connecticut has a partial ban on possession of assault rifles, according to the Brady Campaign website. Certain brands and features are restricted. There are no restrictions on magazine capacity."

- arnon1

December 15, 2012 at 11:13am

""Sources told Fox News the guns used in the shooting were owned by and legally registered to Nancy Lanza." Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/15/at-least-26-dead-in-shooting-at-connecticut-school/#ixzz2F8luhhjU http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/15/at-least-26-dead-in-shooting-at-connecticut-school/

- JAIMECHUCH

December 15, 2012 at 11:58am

To be clear, K2K, I don't think any of us want to "incarcerate" the mentally ill. Speaking for myself, I do want a stronger safety net and better mental health care. Good psychiatrists and social workers are vital. But, too many people don't have access to care, or don't get it, there is general shame about needing it. There shouldn't be shame about asking for and receiving help, for yourself or for your loved ones. And it must be affordable. We do need to stress the idea of community. We are not a bunch of "rugged individualists," we are a society. Finally, the love of guns is something we must examine. Most of us don't love guns, don't own, them and don't want them. A minority of Americans thinks they are sexy. There is a culture of violence in America. Gun violence is part of our national mythology and unfortunately, our history. We should deal with this, get beyond it if possible. We need to evolve. At least, ask the questions, study the history of our conquest of the West, ask why it's good to possess such awful weapons, why is it such a thrill for some people and why do the rights of those people trump the rights of people who don't feel the same way? The Second Amendment itself doesn't say individual Americans have the right to private arsenals of high-powered guns. It discusses "well-regulated militias." As for rampages with knives, they are extremely serious but the death toll is much lower. Rampages won't go away but easy access to powerful weapons like guns, collections of guns in homes, opens the door to tragedy. How many people have been shot by loved ones in a moment of impulsive rage? No guns, no shooting death. Again, we are losing thousands and thousands of people per year to gun violence, homicidal or accidental. This is way worse than the toll from warfare!

- Sophia

December 15, 2012 at 12:13pm

Note, we have well-regulated militias. They are called police forces, sheriffs, the armed services. They are not George Zimmerman and most emphatically they are not spree shooters who take out children and teachers or people at malls and movie theaters.

- Sophia

December 15, 2012 at 12:14pm

Sophia "To be clear, K2K, I don't think any of us want to "incarcerate" the mentally ill." This is a big RED HERRING and I am surprised you fell for it. The NRA don't care about the mentally ill any more than they care about the people shot by "legally owned guns." If they did they would be lobbying the government to help the mentally ill (at lest the ones who live on the streets) but they don't. They are for guns because they make millions of dollars from people who buy guns. They use the mentally ill argument in order to deflect responsibility for what happened. They are a bunch of ghouls.

- arnon1

December 15, 2012 at 12:24pm

arnon, amen to that. England has nearly 4 times fewer homicides than the US yet are they any less freer? And why is that, oh right, they have very strict gun control laws. If we can't pass reasonable gun control laws because of the 2nd amendment, than lets get rid of the 2nd amendment, or let the freaking south secede and take all of the gun nuts with them. Who the hell needs a semi automatic machine pistol? What is wrong with the NRA? Bunch of impotent men who think the hardness of their guns makes up for the softness of the dicks.

- blackton

December 15, 2012 at 12:56pm

Obama should use his special executive powers to impose a moratorium on the sale of any weapon that cannot be defined as strictly defensive and given a validated justification by the person filing the request. Hunting guns can also be allowed, for persons who have reached a minimal age (at least the age of eligibility for a driving licence). In the meantime the legislative body should work on the reformulation of the second amendment. If he moves rapidly on this, while Americans are still reeling from the shock of the last week, and the gun lobby is on the defensive, he might actually succeed in making some progress towards a more sane policy regarding firearms.

- Noga

December 15, 2012 at 1:44pm

"Who the hell needs a semi automatic machine pistol? What is wrong with the NRA? Bunch of impotent men who think the hardness of their guns makes up for the softness of the dicks." blackton, it seems now that in this case the mother was the avid gun collector.

- ironyroad

December 15, 2012 at 2:48pm

irony, she was divorced so maybe it was a substitute?

- blackton

December 15, 2012 at 6:44pm

Tough history for Connecticut: birthplace of the Colt revolver (Hartford) and the Henry rifle (New Haven, altho the successor Winchester is now manufactured in Bayonne, NJ). While I believe the 2nd Amendment is important to freedom from the government, I do want the assault weapons ban re-instated, and have long believed that gun ownership needs to be treated as seriously as automobiles: get a license after proving you know how to use and store your gun safely. The United States Constitution was meant to thwart the power of Government in order to preserve personal liberty, a revolutionary concept at the time. According to CNN's report on the mother murdered by the son she was caring for, she took her sons with her for target shooting, which is a responsible way to teach children about how to respect the danger of guns. I await learning if she became more enthusiastic a gun owner after that despicable home invasion in Connecticut. Sophia: I wrote "It's a bit disturbing that the liberals here blame the NRA, and the conservatives (elsewhere) want to incarcerate the "mentally ill". " To be clearer, I was reading a comment thread at PJM, which is NOT for liberals, and THAT comment thread was disturbing in the numbers who wanted to return the "mentally ill" to those horror shows that were state psychiatric hospitals. TNR.com IS now truly for liberals, and the focus here is about gun control. Yet another contrast. Since Sophia, in a different thread, expressed her opinion that it is evil to kill house mice and rabid racoons, I really do not want to be further attacked for respecting the intention of the 2nd Amendment. Well, time to finish reading The New Yorker's story about America's experiments with chemical weapons in the 1950s and 60s.

- K2K

December 15, 2012 at 8:00pm

K2K, I am all for financing health care, mental or physical. I wonder how PJM proposes to pay for all the mental health evaluation. How about a gun and bullet tax?

- blackton

December 15, 2012 at 8:36pm

"How about a gun and bullet tax?" "A gun and bullet tax," what, are a communist?

- arnon1

December 15, 2012 at 9:03pm

blackton: I assume all levels of government assess fees for gun licenses, in addition to sales taxes. my point was, at PJM, some/most commenters believe "guns don't kill people. people kill people." But, because of the young age of twenty targets, those commenters (also people who support the death penalty for truly heinous crimes) were expressing their belief that only someone clearly insane and clearly a threat would lose all moral sense and deliberately target young children for execution. no, I choose to NOT read about the gruesome details. PJM is NOT the mothership of Norquistia :) It happens to have some good writers on foreign country issues, especially Israel and all the Arab states. A big plus is that comments have rules and ARE moderated. They also keep the Paulbots out, as does RedState.com, but they are in thrall to DeMint/Norquist, and obsessively anti-abortion, although very polite, thanks to rules and moderators. Lately, I am finding my mothership, The New Yorker, to have blogposts on foreign country issues that now have more challenging voices in the comment threads. Plus, as for the writers, I think Steve Coll just smacked down Remnick and Hertzberg on thinking Hamas is a partner for peace. oops, wrong thread for that :)

- K2K

December 15, 2012 at 10:38pm

So a snarky swipe at a trade association for shooting sports by a hip young urban staffer is just the thing I was was hoping to see from TNR regarding this mess.

- nehocm002

December 16, 2012 at 12:14am

I heard that the shooter's mom was a gun-collecting survivalist. Not much apple pie in that house. It's too bad that she and her son had to take so many truly innocent people with them. Chris Rock had a solution to murderous gun freaks years ago. Charge $5,000 for every bullet. "Man, I would blow your f-ing head off--if I could afford it."

- magboy47.

December 16, 2012 at 12:38am

"my point was, at PJM, some/most commenters believe "guns don't kill people. people kill people."" Most of the stuff you have been posting about the nazi style killing of six year olds makes absolutely no sense. The NRA slogan that Guns don't kill, blah, blah blah, is pretty dumb Guns don't go off by themselves. You need a person to do so, hence it's false that guns don't kill people they do kill when fired which is what they are designed to do. In fact the only thing, say a machine gun is good for is killing people. No one hunts with machine guns. So take your apologetic for the murder of six year olds and shove 'em. And btw, being for the death penalty means nothing. Many mass murders end up killing themselves anyway and most try.

- arnon1

December 16, 2012 at 12:48am

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/12/what-can-we-do-to-stop-massacres/266300/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/12/the-case-for-more-guns-and-more-gun-control/309161/ Both of these links are Jeffrey Goldberg's analysis and opinions. Just in case anyone thinks reading different point of views is worthwhile. Or, for anyone just tired of arnon's thread stalking style of bullying, almost always based on arnon's inability to comprehend what he reads.

- K2K

December 16, 2012 at 9:05am

You posted this on another thread, K@K and I replied there. I won't repeat myself here. http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/111152/dont-tell-kids-damn-thing-about-newtown

- arnon1

December 16, 2012 at 10:04am

NYC Mayor Bloomberg, the most sensible advocate for gun regulation in America, was on Meet the Press today. He mentioned that Obama only expanded gun rights, allowing loaded weapons in national parks and on Amtrak. He didn't mention the slimy anarchist G.W. Bush, who, due to public opinion in 2004 during the presidential campaign, advocated extending the assault weapon ban, but after he got elected, he told Tom DeLay to kill the renewal bill in committee, which he did. NYC has the lowest big-city crime rate in America, simply because Bloomberg enforces gun regulations, without taking away guns from law-abiding citizens. Many Republican Congressmen and women don't believe in enforcing gun regulations. 31 of them were invited to come on Meet the Press and the whole yellow-belly lot of them declined. Where are the responsible gun owners in America who can stand up to the mentally ill leaders of the NRA? They accuse the "totalitarian" Obama, supposedly a dictator, of taking away their gun rights, when all he did was expand them. When will Obama and sensible NRA members quit crawling in fear before the sick, gun-worshiping leaders of the NRA? Talk about dictators--the NRA leaders are a tiny minority dictating their deadly, whacko agenda to the solid majority of Americans who want sensible gun regulations put in place and enforced. The shooter's mother Friday was a mentally unbalanced survivalist. She was stockpiling assault weapons, waiting for the Apocalypse. And then she left her instruments of death lying around the house for her mentally-damaged son to get hold of. Diane Feinstein will introduce a bill in Congress soon that bans the future sale (not the present ownership) of assault weapons and massive ammo clips. It is sensible and exempts 900 types of weapons. 900 types of guns are enough for self-defense. Anything beyond that smells of murder--of small children. The American public wants this bill passed. Go ahead, NRA, make our day.

- magboy47.

December 16, 2012 at 10:08am

Good post, Magboy.

- arnon1

December 16, 2012 at 11:37am

Ditto Arnon re that post.

- basman

December 16, 2012 at 1:23pm

(Get a few like minded folks, IE existing within the perimeters of relative sanity, who can disagree civilly and respectfully with reasoned arguments, albeit vigorously, and can concede a point here and there once in a while, and that would be a hell of a good thing.)

- basman

December 16, 2012 at 2:08pm

nehocm says "So a snarky swipe at a trade association for shooting sports by a hip young urban staffer is just the thing I was was hoping to see from TNR regarding this mess." Hm. What do you mean by "urban" and how do you know the author is "hip"? And if I, let's just say, describe something as "a random babbling comment by a redneck troll," is that pretty much the same thing?

- ironyroad

December 16, 2012 at 2:37pm

Ironyroad, consider: "Lydia DePillis is a staff writer at The New Republic. Previously, she covered real estate and development at the Washington City Paper, and has interned at Slate, the New York Observer, Greenwire, and Real Change News. In May 2009, she graduated with a B.A. in history from Columbia College, where she served as managing editor of The Blue and White and editor in chief of its daily news blog, the Bwog. " I believe that addresses your initial concerns. As far as dealing with the need you exhibit to characterize comments with which you disagree as "a random babbling comment by a redneck troll," I offer no useful advice.

- nehocm002

December 16, 2012 at 2:54pm

Ironyroad, consider: "Lydia DePillis is a staff writer at The New Republic. Previously, she covered real estate and development at the Washington City Paper, and has interned at Slate, the New York Observer, Greenwire, and Real Change News. In May 2009, she graduated with a B.A. in history from Columbia College, where she served as managing editor of The Blue and White and editor in chief of its daily news blog, the Bwog. " I believe that addresses your initial concerns. As far as dealing with the need you exhibit to characterize comments with which you disagree as "a random babbling comment by a redneck troll," I offer no useful advice.

- nehocm002

December 16, 2012 at 3:07pm

I'm considering it and I would say, as an initial response, that (1) you don't appear to be able to describe what you mean by "hip" (unless e.g. covering real estate and development has suddenly become cooler than 99% of people would regard it) or, indeed, why being so would disqualify one from writing on the topic addressed here; and (2) you don't appear to be able to explain why simply living in a city (if that's what you mean by "urban") would be a disqualification of some kind when it comes to writing on a matter of broad public interest. So I would very strongly suggest that they are in fact your concerns rather than mine, for reasons that remain obscure; and as to characterizing comments with which you disagree by way of clumsy stereotypes -- no worries, you have at least some experience to offer.

- ironyroad

December 16, 2012 at 5:25pm

Good reporting, Lydia DePillis and TNR. Granted, guns for hunting and self-protection are a legitimate part of life in many parts of the United States. People who live in many areas likely have to wait a long time before the local constable arrives. But guns, like car registration and driving, should be regulated in order to reduce the chances of shooting tragedies. Especially now that weapons have become more lethal. The gun-nuts, including the NRA have succeeded in defining the issue as a binary question of whether private citizens may owns guns at all. Somehow, politically, we have to redefine the issue as one of how much regulation. We also need to probe why this issue has become such a hot button issue with many Americans. Aside from the knowing sexual innuendos. If the government somehow becomes tyrannical, latter day minute men will manage to procure weapons without government permission. So, why are they fighting gun regulation so fiercely?

- amidut

December 16, 2012 at 6:02pm

"The gun-nuts, including the NRA have succeeded in defining the issue as a binary question of whether private citizens may owns guns at all. Somehow, politically, we have to redefine the issue as one of how much regulation. We also need to probe why this issue has become such a hot button issue with many Americans. Aside from the knowing sexual innuendos. If the government somehow becomes tyrannical, latter day minute men will manage to procure weapons without government permission. So, why are they fighting gun regulation so fiercely?" Good points, amidut.

- magboy47.

December 16, 2012 at 8:29pm

Magboy the Mythmaker's current script, already discredited by the Sunday NYT and LAT in two different articles: "The shooter's mother Friday was a mentally unbalanced survivalist. She was stockpiling assault weapons, waiting for the Apocalypse. And then she left her instruments of death lying around the house for her mentally-damaged son to get hold of." so many lies in magboy's three sentences. What's the slogan? "Involuntary Commitment for All" ?????

- K2K

December 17, 2012 at 1:02am

K2K, I saw a relative of the shooter's mother on 48 hours admit on video on 48 Hours Saturday that the mother was a "survivalist" who was collecting guns for the coming economic collapse. She used those words. I don't care what the the NYT or the LAT said. I'll take the word of a relative who had been in her house (probably more than once) and talked to her while she was alive. Did the NYT and the LAT do that? The relative was reluctant to speak about it, but finally admitted that the mother was, indeed, a "survivalist." And survivalists who stockpile guns are mentally unbalanced. If you don't believe me, try talking to one. And, no, I don't think they should be locked up. I think they should be allowed to shoot anyone who comes near their food stash after a catastrophe. After all, that's what I would do. Uh-huh.

- magboy47.

December 17, 2012 at 3:14am