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Go Home Don't Ask, Don't Tell

THE PLANK JANUARY 9, 2009

Don't Ask, Don't Tell

Responding to average-people questions at Change.org, Robert Gibbs affirms Obama's determination to end the current policy governing gays in the military. ("Yes," he replies, when asked if Obama will overturn the "don't ask, don't tell" system fashioned on the fly in Bill Clinton's first months.)

The question is when, exactly, Obama will be willing to wade into this thicket. Thus far the reporting on that front has been conflicting, but it seems like the memory of Clinton's agonizing 1993 experience, which spoiled his electoral honeymoon, has him holding off on the specifics for the time being.

--Michael Crowley

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18 comments

The change might be announced when Obama proposes a hefty increase in military spending. Since Colin Powell as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, threw his weight against Clinton's exec order, resulting in the compromise DADT, Obama could arrange it so the current Chairman would propose the change directly to Congress, with Obama standing behind the General.

- tomeg

January 9, 2009 at 7:31pm

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I am writing this and just to the right of this box is an ad from Human Events. It is hawking homophobe Ann Coulter to get folks like us to subscribe to their publication.

I wonder how many of us took [and then swallowed] the bait?

But I figure if TNR is fair and balanced enough to offer us free email alerts for all the stuff Ann Coulter opines, maybe it's a sign that will induce Human Events and Weekly Standard [and all the conservative ilk like them] to offer free email alerts for all the stuff Rachel Maddow or Andrew Sullivan opines.

This could be all it takes to turn this country around regarding gays in the military. I envision the day when a new, more lofty bipartisan concord goes so far as to entice Obama to suggest the military offer openly gay and lesbian recruits big fat bonuses to sign up.

But one way or the other we know Barack Obama will never let us down about his campaign pledges. Just look at the economic and national security teams he put together. It would be as though those who campaigned for him all those long months had picked the teams themselves.

george walton

- iambiguous

January 9, 2009 at 8:46pm

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The reality is, anybody in the military who wants to get ahead in the military culture, is probably not going to "tell".

I suspect that no matter what Obama does not asking and not telling will be the de facto policy in the American military for many years to come.  Maybe always.

- ChanRobt

January 9, 2009 at 10:41pm

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I would add to the previous by asking, how many openly homosexual men or women are the heads of major corporations?

Barry Diller is the only one I can think of.  And although he may be gay, he isn't fey.

Nor does me show up publicly with boyfriends.  I believe his arm ornament of choice is Diane von Furstenberg.

- ChanRobt

January 9, 2009 at 10:46pm

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I'm sure it won't be at the very top of Obama's priorities, and even when he does get to it he'll have a much easier time than Bill Clinton. Check this out:

ABC News/Washington Post Poll. July 10-13, 2008. N=1,119 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3

"Do you think homosexuals who DO publicly disclose their sexual orientation should be allowed to serve in the military or not?"

July 2008: 75% Should be allowed, 22% should not be allowed

May 1993: 44% Should be allowed, 55% should not be allowed

People's opinions really have changed a LOT over the last 15 years.

- rozenson

January 9, 2009 at 11:16pm

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ChanRobt said: "Nor does me show up publicly with boyfriends."

Paging Dr. Freud, paging Dr. Freud ...

- WoodyBombay

January 10, 2009 at 12:05am

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And in the time it took my searing takedown of channy to post, I thought of David Geffen and Malcolm Forbes. So.

I guess you could argue how "openly" Forbes was gay.

- WoodyBombay

January 10, 2009 at 12:13am

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So much is going on right now, Obama could sneak this through with barely anyone noticing. Clinton walked into this with the press wanting to write about something. Obama is going to be doing a million things straight off the bat

- kbecker

January 10, 2009 at 12:37am

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Compared to California's gay marriage referendum (which Obama made a political calculation not to promote, and made about the weakest statement of endorsement one could concot), repealing don't ask don't tell strikes me as small potatoes -- gays should try to renew the anti-workplace discrimination bill rather than settle for this (which won't come for a year or two anyway).  

- Lymon1

January 10, 2009 at 8:33am

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Chan is right in the short term that "telling" could continue to be an impediment to advancement in the military, but this will not be the case forever. It probably won't even live out the next decade. Anyone who looks at the generational shift in attitudes towards gays in America can see that such discriminatory policies are destined for the scrapheap -- and soon. It wasn't all that long ago, remember, that being black was considered an impediment, too.

- BHLnyc

January 10, 2009 at 8:50am

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Another big difference between now and 1993 is that we're fighting two wars.  In peacetime, maybe you can justify booting people out of the military for no good reason, but when your forces are already stretched to the breaking point, not to mention lacking enough people with relevant skills like foreign languages, no intelligent commander could suggest turning capable soldiers away due to a completely irrelevant factor.

- adaglas

January 10, 2009 at 9:34am

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 From Chan, "I suspect that no matter what Obama does not asking and not telling will be the de facto policy in the American military for many years to come.  Maybe always."

 Not asking and not telling is not the same as losing your job because someone asked or someone told. However, the military has proved that when a person is judged on merit, people move up in the ranks more easily than in civilian life.

 I'd wager females and blacks became pilots earlier and in greater numbers in the military than in civilian life and I doubt any profession can match the military for the percentage minorities in the top ranks. Once people don't lose their jobs for irrelevant personal details, they will become truly irrelevant. It's fair to predict that when barriers come down people jump over them.

 A fair and just military will always outpace a more prejudiced civilian workforce. Private employers will exercise their goofy notions long after the military cleans up their act. I trust the historical record and the proof is there.

- michael

January 10, 2009 at 2:42pm

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Woody, you're kinda hardup to uncover a Freudian fuckup.  I stated what I believe to be a fact.  If you find that so incredibly revealing, I guess you're easily titillated.

- ChanRobt

January 10, 2009 at 6:22pm

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P.S. woody, David Geffen doesn't really count for the full 100 points because he's Hollywood as opposed to mainstream business.

Which, for that matter, was the case with Diller until a decade or so ago.

- ChanRobt

January 10, 2009 at 6:24pm

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By the way, Clinton's biggest mistake was not so much ordering the new policy but in the almost (no pun) flamboyant way he did it.

It seems like the "Dont Ask" order was one of his first acts in office.  He made it appear like the centerpiece of his administration.  A major goddamm statement.

If he had made the change, not in the middle of the night, but with less ostentatious moment, it might not have generated quite the same furore.  Which is not to say no furore.

Obama is cool.  Clinton was never cool.  Ne never escaped being the fat dorky kid he'd once been, and hence was always doing embarrassing grandstanding.

Getting blowjobs in the Oval Office is just another symptom of once-a-dorkhood.  A guy who'd always enjoyed the companionship of attractive women would never have done such a thing.

- ChanRobt

January 10, 2009 at 6:29pm

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Oh Channy ...

Read your sentence again. You said "Nor does me show up publicly with boyfriends." See what happened there? "Me"  instead of "he" ? See what happened there with your typo? You wrote, in bad English, that *you* never appear in public with your boyfriends.

Now, you're not even going to begin to acknowledge the humor there? C'mon. Lighten up, Francis. I know you don't like the gay, but it was just a harmless joke - and a pretty simple one, I always pick the low-hanging fruit - based on your very own mistake.

- WoodyBombay

January 10, 2009 at 8:03pm

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Omigod, Woody, yer right.  My fingers belie my tongue.

Missed the 'me,' Woody.  So, I retract my retort.

- ChanRobt

January 11, 2009 at 10:48pm

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Meanwhile, I've got a question.  How many of the commenters here one the ask/tell issue have served in the military?  How many have an immediate family member who served?  How many know somebody well who is currently or recently served?

If you're anything like the current Congress, or the Obama admin, your answer is overwhelmingly likely to be that you have no firsthand or even close second hand experience with military realities, requirements, or culture.

- ChanRobt

January 11, 2009 at 10:50pm

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