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Go Home Mccain's Hunting Distortion,cont'd

THE PLANK MAY 19, 2008

Mccain's Hunting Distortion,cont'd

BY JONATHAN CHAIT

Both the Washington Post and the Associated Press reported this weekend on John McCain's speech before the Naional Rifle Association, where he ridiculed barack Obama for allegedly suggesting that you hunt guns with a six-shooter. The Post reported:

During his speech, McCain ridiculed Obama's knowledge of guns and hunting by quoting a recent comment Obama made about using a "six-shooter" in a duck blind. "Someone should tell Senator Obama that ducks are usually hunted with shotguns," McCain said to laughter and applause.

The Associated Press reported it like this:

Clinton also criticized Obama for the remark, prompting Obama to accuse the former first lady "like she's on the duck blind every Sunday, packin' a six-shooter!"

As the NRA audience laughed, McCain said: "Someone should tell Senator Obama that ducks are usually hunted with shotguns."

But as I pointed out Friday, Obama did not say that. McCain was misquoting him. What Obama said was:

She's talking like she's Annie Oakley. Hillary Clinton's out there like she's on the duck blind every Sunday. She's packing a six-shooter. C'mon, she knows better.

When McCain repeated the quote, he left out a word, turning "Hillary Clinton's out there like she's on the duck blind every Sunday. She's packing a six-shooter" into "like she's on the duck blind every Sunday, packin' a six-shooter!" McCaib's misquote changed the meaning. Obama was joking that Clinton was putting herself forward as someone who hunts ducks every Sunday and carries a six-shooter, not that Clinton hunts with a six-shooter. But the AP and the Post have taken McCain's misquote at face value.

As I said, this is utterly trivial, but utterly trivial things (like Al Gore's alleged claim to have invented the internet) often turn elections. The AP and the Post ought to issue corrections. They're unintentionally complicit in the embryonic stage of a campaign smear.

--Jonathan Chait

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24 comments

Chait, again, it's not as clear-cut as you insist. You quote Obama: "Clinton's out there like she's on the duck blind every Sunday. She's packing a six-shooter."

Your outrage is that McCain turns the first period into a comma.  But you have no idea if Obama meant this as a period or a dash.  Annie Oakley wouldn't have used a six shooter, she would have used a riffle on the duck blind.  In fact, did his campaign deny McCain's interpretation?  Did you check?  It's not like people in Hyde Park, Chicago are sooooo familiar with hunting that they could not make a gaffe like this (he may have learned about bombmaking from Bill and Bernadine but hunting guns, naw).  Don't be the Obama campaign's surrogate.  

- Lymon1

May 19, 2008 at 12:19pm

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"hunt guns with a six-shooter"

That's what I always use when I go out hunting guns.

- johnalthousecohen

May 19, 2008 at 12:27pm

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Hey, I agree that this is a distortion, but is it really in Obama's best interest to make a big deal about it?  The chunk of the population that really, honestly believes that a President needs to know how to duck hunt is relatively small and unlikely to vote for Obama anyway.  On the other hand, a lot of people don't want to vote for someone who whines about petty crap.

This will fade quickly, because (like the flag pin thing) it's just so obviously stupid.  The only thing that could give it real legs is Obama/Obama supporters constantly talking about how unfair it is.

- ratnerstar

May 19, 2008 at 12:28pm

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Actually, back when I killed stuff to eat, we always hunted ducks with either a two shooter (a double barreled shotgon) or a  five-shooter (either a pump or a semi-automatic - although technically the latter was illegal with five shell in it, as the Feds required you to use a plug to limit the magazine size).

- sdemuth

May 19, 2008 at 12:31pm

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lymon1:

C'mon, I saw the Obama clip on Hillary and guns> Here's the audio with "enhanced" video: www.youtube.com/watch

and it was pretty obvious that he was giving the audience a series of related, but clearly separated one-liners.

At least this post gave you a chance to trot out Bill Ayers......again.

- rappleton

May 19, 2008 at 12:36pm

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Chait.  Listen to Lymon's point about the probelms in translating spoken words into written ones and then trying to ascertain meaning.

But more importantly, why do you make such a big deal over the smallest of things?  You seem to get so upset when Obama is criticized.  Your candidate has toughened up a bit.  Maybe you should do the same, or at least not come across as so defensive.  Think of it this way, if you add fuel to the flame, it burns brighter.  Some things should just be ignored and tossed off as ridiculous.  That's what I think of McCain's comments to the NRA.  

- TammyA

May 19, 2008 at 12:39pm

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While it is fun to watch lymon twist himself in knots spinning this against Obama (An Ayers slam! Are you kidding me?) and defending John McCain, I agree with that this is fairly meaningless.

The percentage of the population that gets a charge out of this obvious distortion of what Obama said is not going to be voting for him anyway. But to sit around claiming "They misused punctuation to misquote me" is as silly as valiantly arguing that Annie Oakley would have used a "riffle" so the remark is wrong and bad and unfair. (By the way, lymon, Annie Oakley was adept with rifles, shotguns AND pistols, so she could have very well used a six-shooter on this mythical duck-hunting excursion of hers. I certainly hope your campaign will be issuing a correction!)

- WoodyBombay

May 19, 2008 at 12:47pm

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Maybe Obama is such a great shot that he uses a six-shooter for his ducks.

- Andrew Davis

May 19, 2008 at 12:57pm

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Ugh Lymon, Annie Oakley wouldn't have used a rifle in a duckblind, she would have used a shotgun. That is unless she was  a really, really good shot or shooting birds on the water. In any event, I don't think there were too many ducks where she was.

I hunt and let me first to say this: who gives a damn? Bob Barr fired a pistol through a glass door and Dick Cheney shot a guy in the face while "hunting" pen raised, clipped winged quail. These Republicans are the ones in need of firearms classes.

- mpatrickhendri

May 19, 2008 at 1:08pm

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Woody, that is right. McCain can talk about ducks and pistols while Obama talks about the economy, we will see what resonates with the public.

- blackton

May 19, 2008 at 1:10pm

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Jonathan, I think this episode is hardly of the magnitude of the Gore  - internet flap. Gore did seem to me a serial exaggerator; I know that there are those who contend that this was media-manufactured but it did not seem so to me. Compared to the lightweight Bush, I thought that the issue of various of Gore's statements should be placed in context for the relatively minor thing that they were. The McCain statement is just silly. This is one of those things that should sink without a trace as soon as possible.

- liberal reformer

May 19, 2008 at 1:13pm

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The real question is why some politicians feel the need to pander to the NRA audience like third-rate comics with a gig on a cheap cruise ship.

- ironyroad

May 19, 2008 at 1:13pm

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Woody and Rap -- hey, I'm not the one dredging this trivial nonsense up again -- as I wrote in the first thread, things like this trivialize the REAL slurs-via-distortion on Obama going on (e.g., "Israel is a stain").  As for Ayers, yes, as with Obama's comments lightly dismissing Chicago/Illinois political corruption, I think the needling is fair, but I notice that nobody (as of this moment) has taken up the substantive discussion on the immigration debate in the thread above this.  People will throw up on their screens if I raise Darfur again.  

- Lymon1

May 19, 2008 at 1:19pm

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First off...Annie Oakley wouldn't be huntin' ducks to begin with. She'd be huntin' real prize game like bears n' cougars' n' elk n' buffalo. Being part of Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show meant you had to hung big game not ducks n' varmints n' such. But being 'Little Sure Shot' she probably could have hunted duck with her trusty .22.

- singlespeed

May 19, 2008 at 1:23pm

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Elmer Fudd always used a shotgun but for some reason, it wasn't very effective with Daffy. Would just leave of bunch of non lethal holes.

And Yosemite never really hit anything with his six shooters.

- thejauntyboulevardier

May 19, 2008 at 1:23pm

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In isolation, the comment is meaningless.  But it's being spun as more "proof" that Obama is "out of touch" with the values of white working-class Americans, i.e, duck hunters.  Actually I'd bet that most Americans who aren't history buffs would associate Annie Oakley with a six-shooter.  Cut the man some slack.

Lymon, maybe you should focus that great parsing ability to explain to us dummies why, for example,  the 2nd Amendment's right to bear arms isn't limited to the maintenance of state militias.  I mean, with your being so knowledgeable on issues of punctuation.  

And frankly Lymon, I'm less concerned about Bill Ayers than about John Hagee's influence on McCain's foreign policy views.  I'm really not ready to send my kids into a Middle East conflagration simply to hasten the Second Coming.

- WayneJM

May 19, 2008 at 1:46pm

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Way -- I'll leave it to greater legal minds, such as liberal jurist Laurence Tribe -- who now agrees that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right -- to answer you, but from what I've read it's because the militia clause is in a preamble/purpose clause and the way these things have been interpreted, frequently in favor of civil liberties, it doesn't limit the language that comes after it.   And it is in the interest of liberals to have the entire bill of rights be considered as "incorporated" on the states by the civil war amendments -- take the loss on the 2nd amendment and preserve the 1st (and 4th).

- Lymon1

May 19, 2008 at 3:13pm

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"McCaib's misquote changed the meaning."

McCaib?

- bcbaird

May 19, 2008 at 3:51pm

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Okay, it's not THAT bad, the "N" and "B" keys are neighbors.  But still.

- bcbaird

May 19, 2008 at 3:51pm

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Jonanthan,

Obama was mocking Clinton and McCain was mocking Obama.  Literality and punctuation are not relevant.

Annie Oakley, by the way, on one occasion burst 4,472 out of 5,000 glass balls at 90 feet with her .22 rifle.  How did she do it?  She used bird shot -- perhaps fine shot or dust loads  - something not disclosed to the audience.  Cheating?  Not really; it's show business.   Still,  whatever the load, 4,472 out of 5,000 at 90 feet is pretty good shooting.

Dan

- dbuck

May 19, 2008 at 4:02pm

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This may constitute "trivial nonsense", but it speaks to the heart of an issue of fairly representing an opponent's position on an issue, a concept McCain has yet to grasp. McCain can't even tell when he is being represented fairly, which was made quite obvious by all the rigamarole surrounding the 100-years comments until Obama was asked point-blank during his Hardball interview, and set the record very straight with a very accurate representation of McCain's position.

The point is that McCain has no problems taking the least bit of "trivial nonsense" and spinning it into whatever caricature is most appropriate to his audience. This is especially wonderful for McCain because if Obama addresses the issue he can claim Obama is focusing on "trivial nonsense" instead of real issues, and if he doesn't then McCain gets free "character issue" points on Obama for being less out-of-touch than the other guy.

Damn, I can't wait for some real debates, early and often.

- GSpinks

May 19, 2008 at 4:34pm

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Obama wasn't far off at all.

ecx.images-amazon.com/.../419TVXFQANL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

Utter silliness.

- WayneJM

May 19, 2008 at 4:35pm

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And let's not forget, just because most people _don't_ hunt fowl with pistols doesn't mean you _can't_ hunt fowl with pistols. You absolutely can. It's just much harder. You have to get closer to your prey, and you have to be a _much_ better shot. With a shotgun, your aim can be off by up to a few feet and you kill the bird. With a pistol, your aim would need to be true to within an inch or so.

And frankly, if anyone could have hunted ducks with a six-shooter, it would have been Annie Oakley.

- rhubarbs

May 19, 2008 at 5:41pm

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"She's talking like she's Annie Oakley. Hillary Clinton's out there like she's on the duck blind every Sunday. She's packing a six-shooter. C'mon, she knows better."

Try this:  He is in a restaurant.  He's having dinner.

Two ideas or one, in two sentences?

I'm for Obama, but McCain's take was on point.  Obama fairly said that Hillary is talking like she is on the duck blind packing a six-shooter.  Yes, it was two sentences instead of one -- and in a stretch one could say that the ideas were separate although in normal speech they were not.

The essential fact of presidential politics is that everything the candidates say is fair game.  McCain's argument was and will be that Obama doesn't know enough -- and by his casual, somewhat careless comment Obama gave him a chance to make the point to a pro gun audience.

Obama may be eloquent, but he has to be much, much more careful in what he says casually, more guarded.  Or else ... maybe we would be better off with McCain.

Remember the old slogan:  "Loose lips sink ships."

- PeteBeck

May 20, 2008 at 8:45am

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