THE PLANK OCTOBER 30, 2008
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Man, I thought I trained you guys better than this.There is a lot of consternation in my e-mail box about two polls. One, from Mason-Dixon, shows John McCain just 4 points down in Pennsylvania. The other, from FOX News, shows McCain down just 3 points nationwide.Let's
start with the Pennsylvania result. Mason-Dixon is a pretty strong
pollster. So, however, are many others from among the literally dozen
or so agencies that have conducted polling within Pennsylvania over the
past 72 hours. And none of those other pollsters shows the race that
tight.Mason-Dixon has also had a Republican
"lean" this cycle of perhaps 2-3 points. They are quite frequently the
most favorable number for John McCain in any given state. That
doesn't mean that they are "biased", and it doesn't mean that they are
wrong – there are many different (and legitimate!) ways to think about
this election. But it does mean that their polls need to be
interpreted in that context. Let's say the average poll in Pennsylvania
has Obama ahead by 9.5 points. Mason-Dixon will probably start out
seeing a 9.5-point state at a 7-point state. If they then end up toward
the McCain side of their margin of error -- and they don't use huge
sample sizes – that’s how you get to Obama +4.Now, look. I
don't think we need to be in the habit of ripping a poll apart every
time that we don't like the result. There is nothing inherently "wrong"
with this poll. It's simply that we need to look at in concert with the
rest of the evidence. In this case, we have an abundance of evidence,
and it suggests on balance that Pennsylvania is neither particularly
close, nor is it particularly "tightening" (Mason-Dixon's prior poll of
the state, in Mid-September, had Obama up by 2).It might also help to come at this from the other direction. Here is one poll out of many, out of one "must-win" state out of many, that shows that John McCain is sorta kinda close? This is the best news he can muster? On Monday, I laid out specific criteria for what I'd want to see in order to conclude that the race has tightened materially:
John McCain polling within 2 points in 2 or more non-partisan polls ... in at least 2 out of the 3 following states: Colorado, Virginia, Pennsylvania.
We have yet to see any such results in any of these three states.*-*As
for the FOX poll, I'm a little bit taken aback at the number of people
who assume that, just because the poll is from FOX, it must somehow
have been cooked. Sixteen times out of 20, an aberrant result (and I'm
not sure you can really call this "aberrant", since a couple of other
pollsters show the race at about 3 points right now) is the result of
statistical noise. Perhaps 3 times out of 20, it might be the result of
a poor sampling procedure. And then there might be that one case in 20
where the pollster feels compelled to his finger on the scale in some
way -- but these cases are extremely rare. And there's no particular
reason to accuse FOX News of this behavior. Their polls haven't had
much of a partisan lean this cycle, and for that matter, they were
among the only pollsters to have John Kerry winning the popular vote in
2004. If there's a problem with FOX News polls, it's not that they're
biased, but that they're simply not all that good.It's true
that FOX's sample included a materially higher percentage of
Republicans this time around. FOX, however, does not choose its sample;
its sample chooses itself. In this case, when they drew their ping-pong
balls out of the jar, they came up with a slightly higher percentage of
red ones. This kind of thing will happen all the time unless a pollster weights by party ID,
which FOX News and many other pollsters do not. The Pew poll that came
out the other day, for instance, had a big increase in the number of
Democrats in its sample.Nevertheless, the change in the
partisan ID of their sample does cut against the notion that the race
is tightening. What we are ultimately interested in is whether the same
voters are starting to look at the race in a different way -- making up
their minds, or changing their minds. In this case, however, it appears
mostly that FOX was talking to different
voters -- a more Republican-leaning set of voters -- rather than
reaching the same sorts of voters and finding that they were thinking
about the race differently. John McCain did pick up a few points among
independents, but the numbers among Republicans and Democrats were
essentially unchanged.Numeros:
Boy,
that's a lot of data. If there's anything that jumps out here, it's
that we probably shouldn't be too quick to conclude that the race comes
down to exactly Virgnia,
Colorado and Pennsylvania. There are two polls out of Virginia today
that show that state a little tighter than most of the other recent
numbers; on the other hand, Ohio is becoming a real problem for John
McCain, and perhaps North Carolina is too.Lastly, although it's
probably too early to conclude anything much about whether the Obama
infomercial was successful, the Rasmussen and SurveyUSA state polling
that was in the field last night seemed to contain pretty good numbers
for him, slightly better than for much of the past week.
--Nate Silver
8 comments
I would assume that LA result (McCain only +3?) is an outlier, or are there actually other results that might support this?
- cspencef
October 30, 2008 at 11:08pm
Nate, I admit it, I'm a worry wart, and your admonishments and reassurances are starting to wear a little thin. Isn't it true (a phrase Perry Mason repeated oh maybe a thousand times through the series' years)...isn't it true that eventually what looks like a trivial shift in the polls masks a deep current as in sea change? This isn't your typical election and, in Obama's case, not your typical horse race. Am I so off base that I should take election day off to tiptoe through the sunflowers?
- tomeg
October 30, 2008 at 11:50pm
Nate, I'm wondering whether the standard error around/significance of the lean is a factor that might complicate application. Even if it is significant, is there any evidence of its being dependent on any other factors?
tomeg, I think what Nate is trying to say is that, short of any dramatic move, it's not possible to pick up small moves or even slight trends over short periods. Either the trend has to be sustained for some length of time, or it has to be sufficiently large. That is just a statistical limitation which there's no getting around. Noise dominates information until it doesn't, and no judgment can be made before then. Of course, that fact, combined with the sheer amount of polling being conducted on a daily basis, makes it unlikely we would miss anything like a 'sea change' for more than a day or so. So panic at your leisure...
- I Majorajam
October 31, 2008 at 12:23am
I just ran the numbers and it turns out that, as I suspected, I am one of only a few hundred registered voters in all of the United States who has not yet been polled by somebody, somewhere, this election cycle.
If my calculations hold up I'm due to get The Call on Saturday between 3 and 4 p.m., Pacific time. At that time I will likely be flossing my clocks' hour hands in anticipation of the hot "fall back" orgy they and I will be having later that evening.
I'm concerned, frankly, that the Bradley Effect may have been debunked and that we therefore may reach the end of this election without any meaningful Effects. So I'm going to have to think long and hard about what kind of "williamyard Effect" I can spring on the pollster who calls me this Saturday.
I'm thinking I may have no choice but to tell him or her than I plan to vote for Bob Barr because I learned that Ralph Nader is the Anti-Christ. That should add a little grist to his or her poll's modeling.
Meanwhile I suspect that people who feel compelled to tell pollsters the truth are the same folks who find themselves overcome with guilt when they're making love for the umpteenth time to their significant other and have to fantasize about a neighbor or co-worker or old flame in order to reach orgasm.
People, go ahead and lie, and quit worrying: there are no thought police, at least not yet.
- williamyard
October 31, 2008 at 1:24am
"Their polls haven't had much of a partisan lean this cycle, and for that matter, they were among the only pollsters to have John Kerry winning the popular vote in 2004. If there's a problem with FOX News polls, it's not that they're biased, but that they're simply not all that good."
Nate, you clearly aren't cynical enough here! Having Kerry leading was CLEARLY a way to motivate more of their viewers (read: people who are very likely to lean republican) to go out and vote. Either that or no, their polls just aren't that good good. But who wants to believe that FNC are simply incompetent?
- Nari224
October 31, 2008 at 4:57am
I hear you Mr Yard - one of the few benefits of stuffing an entire family and two cats into an apartment on the Upper West Side of Manhattan is that we never receive any political canvassing of any kind. I have never had anyone knock on my door, bother to robo-call, hand out flyers, etc. No one even buys much TV ad space here. I mean, why bother.
It's lovely.
- Wandreycer1
October 31, 2008 at 6:35am
Wand: that explains why I have not seen any political ads in the American channels we get up here (Rochester, Buffalo and Detroit). I keep hearing about the "ads" and I never seen any on TV ... I guess there is no point. Mind you, I hardly watch TV, so that could be the other reason I have not seen any ads ...
I just love the numbers from Maine and NH. I recall all the talk about the second district in ME (or is it the first) and how NH was flip-flopping ... I mean, polls, even this late, don't really mean much ... but still.
- icarusr
October 31, 2008 at 10:01am
Daniel Chun is a writer for “The Simpsons.” Is the election driving you crazy? Are you losing sleep over
- Anonymous
October 31, 2008 at 4:57pm