The New Republic

"The city is not quite a hundred years old. But its integrated design was not finished until 1925 when Sir Patrick Geddes delivered his city plan to the town guardians. Geddes, a botanist and biologist who will be remembered in history as a prophet of the "garden city" movement, heavily influenced Lewis Mumford of whom, alas, not many of you heard." I have read a couple of books by Mumford (on Melville and on the City in history), but I have never heard of Geddes till now. This is why I like to read The Spine I learn something almost every time I log on.

- jacksondyer

July 8, 2007 at 6:38pm

Yep, always something new (except for the tiresome MP-bashers). I mentioned in a recent post my stay at a kibbutz near Sderot (Nahal Oz). Nahals are sited in frontier areas -- outposts, as it were -- so the kibbutzniks are expected to be "soldier-farmers". Alas I was neither, to the permanent residents just a callow, clumsy volunteer. Some things have changed. Looks like Oz is to be part of a huge wildlife park. Others haven't changed, the bombs and gunfire out of Gaza. We didn't get rocket attacks back then -- they've been landing in and out of the kibbutz lately -- so I wonder what the elephants will think.

- jm_rice

July 8, 2007 at 8:39pm

You're right, Marty. Those in Tel Aviv, sipping their lattes on the Sderot, should never be allowed to forget the other Sderot.

- jm_rice

July 8, 2007 at 8:44pm

Is what does this mean for the Jewish State? Israel survived all of it's previous wars because it was willing to fight tooth and nail and mobilize it's whole citizenry. It's been over 20 years since the last direct existential threat to Israel (1973, unless someone can think of a more recent example), enough time for generation to not remember it. Heck, even in 1973 Israeli overconfidence nearly doomed it. The Palestinians, on the other hand, still have have sizable population who is not afraid of unconditional (read: genocidal) warfare.

- pjsmmjd

July 8, 2007 at 10:48pm

Marty: There is a very interesting debate emerging in Canada between the apologists for Hamas, Hezbollah and the Taliban, many of whom are liberal professors of Canadian liberal universities and their own students who vehemently oppose their professsors'orthodox knee jerk anti-war, pacifist, pro Palestinian position, and strong anti-Israeli ( quasi-anti-semitic) stance. I strongly urge you to visit the new blog http://twoelles.blogspot.com and witness firsthand the debate between Professor Byers, a well-known liberal Canadian political scientist at the University of British Columbia, who often writes for the left-leaning anti-Israeli, pro Arab newspaper The Toronto Star, a rival of Canwest's National Post, and a brilliant 20 year old UBC political science major named Laura Wolfe. Miss Wolfe takes issue with Professor Byers' recent article in the Toronto Star, which strongly criticizes Prime Minister Harper's defence of Israeli action during the Lebanon war last summer. See the link to Byers article in her blog. It is refreshing to see a young UBC student question the traditional Canadian liberal criticism of Israeli military action in its own defence and any Canadians who support Israel's right of self-defence. Full disclosure. She is my daughter. She is an avid reader of TNR and you are her hero. We are damn proud of her. Regards, M Wolfe your former student advisee

- LauraW

July 8, 2007 at 10:51pm

... and even more cappucinos! When in Israel I often used to drink cappucinos at those lovely coffee-houses on Sheinkin Street in Tel Aviv. All that did not prevent me or my equally latte-sipping friends to serve in the Israeli Defense Force. It's an old and tired cliche to judge people by their clothes or what they drink and make grand inferences about what they think and do when times are tough. Peretz rehashes old journalistic cliches - sad to read his post. How does he know that those cappucino-sipping people don't do IDF duty? He doesn't, just infers - so stupid and pop-culture & pop-sociology that I thought it was David Brooks. Peretz, why don't you serve in the IDF? Maybe then we can talk about the habits, thoughts and Zionism commitment of Tel Aviv cappucino-sipping people.

- sleepyavl

July 9, 2007 at 2:35am

"How does he know that those cappucino-sipping people don't do IDF duty?....Maybe then we can talk about the habits, thoughts and Zionism commitment of Tel Aviv cappucino-sipping people." One of the great controversies that surfaced during the Second Lebanese War, and has continued since was noticeable absence (initially) and subsequent low count of war casualties among Tel Avivians. By the end of the war there all of 3 casualties from Tel Aviv -- the same number, or less, than from kibbutzim, moshavim, and (gasp!) "settlements" from over the Green line, all of which are orders of magnitude smaller than Tel Aviv. Indeed the observation on the relatively low number of Tel Avivians among those who gave their lives in Lebanon 2 was publicly noted by the IDF's manpower chief, Gen'l Elazar Stern. Needless to say it caused a bit of a controversy until the left-leaning Yedi'ot Aharonot confirmed his observation by publishing a partial "distribution map" of the causalities ("partial" because they deliberately omitted communities from over the Green Line; they couldn't bring themselves to admit that the IDF depends heavily on "settlers" to populate the most elite combat units). But it's not a new story; former Chief of Staff Gen'l Moshe "Bogie" Ya'alon commented a number of times in closed meetings (I was present at one such meeting) that the families where that he has to pay condolence calls do not generally come from the Tel Avivian "elite" (who don't all live in Tel Aviv, but that is another story). This was also confirmed in a recent book (the title and author's name escapes me, but anyway it's in Hebrew) who worries about the fact that the sons and daughters of the "elite" increasingly avoid and evade military service (e.g., see P.M. Ehud Olmert's son). This past Yom Hazikaron (Israel's memorial day), IBA TV (very left wing & secular orientation) broadcast their "intro" to the observances by commemorating 4 soldiers who fell during Lebanon 2 -- all 4 were "dati" (religiously observant) soldiers who lived over the Green Line, including the now iconic Major Ro'i Klein HY"D (father of 2) who jumped on a grenade to save his fellow soldiers during the battle of Bint J'bail. Indeed something like 40% of the officers in the combat units are from the much-maligned (especially by Marty Peretz) National-Religious segment of Israel's population. Not the latte sipping folks of Tel Aviv. Army service simply does not fit well into the hedonistic, self-centered, radical left-wing ethos that has come to characterize the Tel Avivian mindset. for another perspective on this see the Jerusalem Post's David Horowitz' "editor's notes" column from this passed Friday: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1183459 208488&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull Hershel Ginsburg, Jerusalem.

- ginzy

July 9, 2007 at 6:10am

"Army service simply does not fit well into the hedonistic, self-centered, radical left-wing ethos that has come to characterize the Tel Avivian mindset." You are a fool and a liar. Are you telling me that just because I am secular I didn't go to the army? Have you personally served, Mr. Ginsburg? I find your message deeply insulting - to me and to all of us who weren't religious yet are committed Zionists.

- sleepyavl

July 9, 2007 at 6:31am

For fifty years religious folks have by and large avoided the army. Now that suddenly these people started going, all of a sudden only today counts, not the fifty years when they were too busy to go to the fronteer - they just let us, the latte-sipping crowd to patrol with a gun between the Palestinians! Shame on you Ginsburg!

- sleepyavl

July 9, 2007 at 6:34am

In no particular order, in response to sleepyavl (I at least, sign my full name). a) I moved to Israel nearly 12 years ago at the age of 45 so trust me that the IDF didn't want me. b) My two sons served / serve, one as a combat medic in the Golani and subsequently in the Aleksndroni reserve brigade (including a month callup during Lebanon 2, two weeks of which were in Lebanon itself). My other son is currently training in the armored corps (assuming his back holds out). My older daughter did national service with "One Family" helping terror victims of the Olso Accords wars. My youngest daughter just graduated high school and is debating between national service and IDF service. I apologize to no one in terms of IDF / National Service. c) ABSOLUTELY NOTHING I said was factually wrong and all have been discussed extensively this past year in Israel, granted mostly in the general Hebrew language media. And I heard Ya'alon with my own ears and so have many others. Ditto for for Gen'l Stern. In fact the kibbutz movement seeing its past IDF glory gradually slipping away, have been actively encouraging their kids to do "significant" (i.e., combat unit) IDF service lest the National-Religious "take over" the IDF. d) I did not say the secular, you or anyone else, don't do IDF service and would not say that. Clearly many (probably most) do. Many of my sons' army buddies were / are secular. But it is a well known fact (yes, a FACT) that the National-Religious sector (as opposed to the ultra-orthodox Hareidim) are disproportionally over-represented in combat units, and particularly among the lower & middle ranks of the officer corps. See in particular the Paratrooper brigade and especially the Golani infantry brigade. Again that is a FACT. It is also a FACT (and a controversial one at that) that in absolute numbers, the vast majority of those avoiding / evading army service are secular Israelis, especially from the Gush Dan (metro T.A.) area. Again, this does not mean that ALL Gush Dannnites avoid the army or even avoid combat units; many do and serve honorably and bravely. But a statistically significant number do, as borne out by last summer's casualty map. And yes, the reason often given and bandied about in the Hebrew language media is that "Army service simply does not fit well into the hedonistic, self-centered, radical left-wing ethos that has come to characterize the Tel Avivian (or Gush Dan) mindset." Throughout history, hedonist oriented cultures fall victim to outside invaders in large part because a hedonist is not of the mindset to risk his life to defend his country. Who does Army service in the USA? The kids of the NY Times editorial board? This is also confirmed by what my sons tell me about which of their fellow soldiers cause a lot of trouble during basic training in order to get out of IDF service or at least get transferred to "jobnik" position (non-combat). e) And I did not or would not say that a secular Jew cannot be a committed Zionist. However the fashionable, anti-Israel post Zionists who are also over-represented in Israel's academic, media, and cultural elite are overwhelmingly secular. Furthermore, among left-wing secular Israelis IDF service is increasingly viewed as a chore to get over with, and a lot less the sine qua none manifestation of Zionism. f) And last but not least, the "religious folks" (and yes, we really do have horns and pointed tails). First off let me distinguish between the ultra-Orthodox Hareidi sector, relatively few of which (but not none) serve in the IDF and the National-Religious sector, the overwhelming majority of which do serve, and primarily in combat units. Note what I said about the officer corps. I grant you that in the first 20 years or so of the state, the N-R did not feature in IDF service but that was because they were mostly relegated to minor support roles because the MaPAI establishment and the IDF itself viewed the IDF as the province of the "New Jews", in keeping the Ben Gurionesque dogma that religious Jews would disappear and that only the new, secular Jew would remain (as an analogy, see Marshall Sklare's 1950's prediction about American Jewry, in particular Orthodox Jewry). This began to change in the 1970's and especially in the 1980's when N-R (not hareidi) rabbis & educators began to encourage and speak highly of the religious significance of doing IDF service. In particular the founding and spread of the N-R pre-army preparatory yeshivot that have produced a disproportionate number of combat soldiers and officers (again, see David Horvitz's (not Horowitz - my mistake) article in the Jerusalem Post. And Horvitz is a certified secular, moderately left-wing Israeli). These have been so successful that now they are being emulated by secular groups who want to encourage "significant" army service among their youth. I don't want to leave out the Hesder Yeshivot who combine army service with Yeshiva learning. Although they do less active duty service (but are available and are used for long periods of "quick call up") they also produce a disproportionate number of combat soldiers and officers, and have been for decades. So my dear sleepyavl (and at least have the decency to sign your full name), it seems that you have been fast asleep at the trigger while vast sociological changes have been taking place in Israel over the past 20 years. What was once the "central dogma" of your prejudices simply isn't. Shame on YOU! Hershel Ginsburg

- ginzy

July 9, 2007 at 8:03am

quick question - You were in the IDF yes? Now, somewhere I remember you saying that you were only in a short time? Why? Were you wounded or something like that? The Israeli vets I know - 3 of my wife's cousins and a few neighbors and friends here in Petaluma CA of all places for IDF vets to be - all have told me that IDF service was, I believe, a minimum of 2 to 3 years. One told me that exceptions are sometimes made for non Israeli citizens and for those soldiers, they sometimes only serve for a year.

- MrCookie1

July 9, 2007 at 9:53am

For Mr. Cookie's edification: Standard IDF service - 3 years. Hesder Yeshiva students - 18 months active duty plus another 24 or 30 months ready reserve & "fill in". 3 years+ if the Hesdernik becomes and serves as an officer (fairly common for those Hesderniks who qualify). Foreign volunteers (MaCha"L) - 16 months Foreign Hesder volunteers (MaCha"L hesder) - 9 months w/ option of 16 months. Older, married recruits, and various & sundry other special situation - 1 to 12 months, depending on various dependings. This does not include reserve duty which is a whole other ball of wax. Without going into all the whys and wherefores, only a relatively small percentage of ex-regular army IDF soldiers are called (and "do") for regular reserve duty. hg

- ginzy

July 9, 2007 at 10:16am

Thanks. I think poster sleepy may have fallen under MaCha"L hesder...that would be my guess..

- MrCookie1

July 9, 2007 at 10:47am

There's a rally in Rabin Square in 90 minutes in solidarity with the people of the (town) Sderot. I hope I can make it.

- Mahler

July 9, 2007 at 11:10am

Actually, regular MaCha"L if anything. MaCha"L hesder is aimed at National-Religious foreigners who come to Israel for 1+ years to study in a Hesder Yeshiva (which are religious institutions by definition) and want to do some IDF service, typically in combat units. Sleepy defined himself as secular so it is unlikely he would have served in a Hesder unit which are (or were) homogeneous. Just to clarify something: When I wrote 3 years for standard IDF service, that was for the "regular" draftees (a.k.a., "grunts" in US Army-ese). Those who opt and are accepted for officer training, usually have to add at least one more year, but get paid as "careerists" once they completed their 3 year minimum mandatory service (for the better AND for the worse, officer training here does not have a prerequisite of a college degree; Israel also does not have the equivalent of a West Point). Also certain specialized units or positions (both combat and certain very specialized, highly trained "desk" jobs) require a longer commitment up front, of up to 7 years depending on the position. Lastly, in some situations the IDF will allow someone to get a university degree (or two) before mandatory service, in exchange for a longer commitment after the degree but in a position using the education gained. hg

- ginzy

July 9, 2007 at 11:10am

A friend of mine's son Noam Bedein is student at Sderot's Sapir College studying media & communications. Out of frustration with the main stream media outside Israel that is assiduously ignoring Sderot (and to a lesser degree the complacent Tel Avivians as well), Noam set up the Sderot Media Center to provide media services and information to those few reporters who do venture into the town. He also set up a web site with stories, pictures, audio and video about life in Sderot under periodic rocket rain. If you are interested, the address is: http://www.sderotmedia.com/ Noam runs the operations on a shoestring and welcomes contributions which you can make via his web site. Hershel Ginsburg

- ginzy

July 9, 2007 at 11:27am

Cookie, worong guess on both guests. First, MaCha'L hesder is for FOREIGN volunteers. I went to Israel as an immigrant under the Law of Return, so I am an Israeli citizen. Second, hesder is for religious people. I am not religious (neither anti-religious either), I am simply Zionist.

- sleepyavl

July 9, 2007 at 12:42pm

Cookie, worong guess on both guests. First, MaCha'L hesder is for FOREIGN volunteers. I went to Israel as an immigrant under the Law of Return, so I am an Israeli citizen. Second, hesder is for religious people. I am not religious (neither anti-religious either), I am simply Zionist.

- sleepyavl

July 9, 2007 at 12:42pm

Yep, they made the deserts bloom. And taste good, too! ;0

- jks973

July 9, 2007 at 12:47pm

It's also a fact that for the past 59 year the religious sector has done very little sector. Aside from the NRP sector there are other religious parties too - and you know it very well. Large sectors of the religious sector to this very day avoid military service yet still vote in elections. I don't give a damn whether you apologize or not. I've met your type of self-righteous local holy men more than I wanted to. Just don't give me lessons, OK? You're really full of prejudices about the academic elites and so on. You can't see anything beside the ideology. You're a liar too. Army service doesn't fit well with the religious camp either, who comprises more than the NRP voters. You ask for decency? You must be nuts, after you blithely insulted a whole sector of the population, of which I am a part. I don't have a problem with the religious, but for you personally I have nothing but contempt - take it personally. As for the exhortation to sign with my own name, mind your own business. I keep my privacy - especially from holy men like you.

- sleepyavl

July 9, 2007 at 12:48pm

you disappointed me

- sleepyavl

July 9, 2007 at 12:58pm

"Actually, regular MaCha"L if anything." Just because you didn't do a thing, you tell others they didn't do either? Have you heard of the Law of Return? Quite typical of men like you is that you authomatically classify as a non-Israeli whoever you don't like. You really are an evil person. You probably would take the citizenship away from whoever doesn't have a photograph of Ayatollah Ovadia Yosef. Luckily, it is not men like you who made the laws of Israel. Moreover, the honorable service of your children doesn't transfer to you. You get no points just because you waited long enough to not do military service.

- sleepyavl

July 9, 2007 at 12:55pm

For your clarification, I served six months in the IDF for two reasons. First, I had already done one year in another country, where I was born, eight years before the IDF service - and got credit for that. Second, if you immigrate past the age of 22, you have to serve between 1 and 12 months (as ginzy has accurately pointed). I was in a combat unit in the disputed territories. I wasn't enthusiastic about the service, but I certainly didn't shirk it either; I looked for no yeshiva deferment or office job because if there's no army there's no Israel. I went out there in the fields with a gun. That is more than can be said of ginzy. I am really really infuriated when people like him, who have not served (just like Marty Peretz, another valiant fellow who didn't bother to go out there in the field) give me lessons.

- sleepyavl

July 9, 2007 at 1:12pm

a) If you would have deigned to read my post carefully, you would have noticed that I made a careful distinction between the ultra-Orthodox Hareidim (an interesting if complicated story) and the National-Religious sector. You are correct that there are other religious parties besides the NRP (which for now is part of the National Union amalgam). The Ashkenazi parties (2) do little (but not none) army service. The Sfardi hareidi party is a different story; many, if not most of their voters and most of their Knesset members have done "regular" army service or Hesder. b) I have never voted for any religious party, and I still don't intend to do so. And I have yet to miss voting in any Israeli election since I came on aliya. c) Larger numbers (though again, not percentages) of secular Israelis avoid army service. Even Tommy Lapid admitted as much. If you find the facts insulting you have a problem, but the facts are the facts no matter how much you foam at the mouth. And I did not insult a whole sector (although you have managed to dredge up every tired stereotype of religious Israelis and blithely ignore the important distinctions between the N-R & Hareidi sectors). If you don't like the statements made by Gen'l (res.) Ya'alon or Gen'l Stern (again, head of the IDF manpower branch) take it up with them. d) For all its faults (and there are many) the N-R youth are still the most active on social issues as well as their disproportionate representation in combat units. e) You don't know me and don't know my "type". I have never held myself out to be a any sort of a "holy man". And as far as knowing something about academic elites, I have a Ph.D. in molecular biology and genetics and work in Israel as a patent attorney specializing in biotechnology and related areas. And I am fluent in Hebrew as well. I function no less in the secular world than you do and have a wide variety of friends and acquaintances from across the political and religious (and non-religious) spectrum. Obviously I touched a raw nerve. I do not have contempt for you. But I do have pity. Hershel Ginsburg, Ph.D. P.S. And the academic elites do see anything besides a radical left wing ideology?

- ginzy

July 9, 2007 at 1:13pm

Who are you to have pity? You're nobody - your words come from newspapers, your legitimacy comes from your children, you have none of yourself. You're full of prejudices and little else, you speak in cliches and give lessons. As for the radical left ideology, it shows your ability to put up a non-sequitur - another way to say you're a fool. I typically vote center or right, but your little brain cannot see 'academic' or 'scientist' without bringing some garbage cliche about radical left academia. And yes, you did touch a raw nerve: I despise people like you, who were not there in the field. I was. You weren't. That is the fact.

- sleepyavl

July 9, 2007 at 1:22pm

Many thanks for the "short course".

What you say reminds me of a book I often cite here, AWOL: The Unexcused Absence of America's Upper Classes from Military Service -- and How It Hurts Our Country, by Frank Schaeffer. The link is to a video Q&A with the author. It is entertaining -- Schaeffer is articulate and engaging -- yet sobering, and well worth your time. I'm sure much of what he says can be applied to Israel today. Schaeffer and his questioner also discuss the relationship between religious and the military.

- jm_rice

July 9, 2007 at 1:33pm

Of all the things you said, this one was really vomit-inducing: "Actually, regular MaCha"L if anything." ginzy, "if anything"? How could you? Unforgivable.

- sleepyavl

July 9, 2007 at 1:35pm

what gives? I was simply asking about your service because I was curious. You mention it once in a while and it is ABSOLUTELY true that I have a neighbor, Michael R, who is a HS teacher as was in the IDF and this weekend, we talked about his service, a typical length of service, etc. As for the confusion, I sincerely did not know that you were an Israeli citizen. I know you're from Romania and since you served briefly in the IDF, I tried to find the category that might fit you. You have clarified it satisfactorily for all. Perhaps the question, as read on this blog, appeared more sinister or snarky than intended. Really sleepy, you have got to loosen up a bit my man. You are striking out a bit too quickly. No enemies here sleepy, just the curious. And I agree that your service in the IDF, be it for one day or 10 years, makes you a more credible and consistent voice than Marty Peretz can ever hope to be...

- MrCookie1

July 9, 2007 at 6:08pm

Misunderstanding there. My apologies.

- sleepyavl

July 9, 2007 at 9:06pm

"And I agree that your service in the IDF, be it for one day or 10 years, makes you a more credible and consistent voice than Marty Peretz can ever hope to be..." Spoken like a true neophyte. I am no judge of sleepyval's credibilty on military issues, but surely merely being in the IDF doesn't give one a stronger knowledge even of military matters much less of socio-political issues than someone who has studied it for most of his life. I was in the US military during the Vietnam war and I don't claim to have more credibility than any professional student of the conflict be he or she for or against the war. You should read War and Peace by Tolstoy if you want to understand what kind of knowledge soldiers have of the battles in which they engage. Having said this for all I know sleepyavl may be an astute student of all things Israeli. The same goes for ginzy as I am not taking sides in their interesting dispute.

- jacksondyer

July 9, 2007 at 10:15pm

I too refuse to take sides in the sleepy v ginzy feud. Ginzy seems like a great guy. jackson, we will never see eye to eye on marty. To you, he is a hero. To me, a buffoon. Never the twain shall meet, I reckon...

- MrCookie1

July 9, 2007 at 11:26pm

thank you... if you ever make it to Israel, please look me up. hg

- ginzy

July 10, 2007 at 8:11am

"a book I often cite here..." Thank you for the link... how long is the video? and where is "here"? and you are quite welcome for the short course.. the next time you come to israel, please look me up. hg

- ginzy

July 10, 2007 at 8:14am

whoops I misaddressed my thank you note... so to jackson, thank you for the complement and if you ever make it to Israel please look me up. And to Mr.Cookie1, you can also look me up, without having to take sides. But I am glad you found the exchange interesting. hg

- ginzy

July 10, 2007 at 10:24am

thanks. We may get to Israel someday. As mentioned, my wife has family there, and my older son has expressed an interest in traveling there. He is quite the traveler. He is 14 and has been to England twice, Spain and Portugal last year, and in two days, he goes to Japan for two weeks with an exchange group. So, it is not impossible that he or all of us could someday go to Israel.

- MrCookie1

July 10, 2007 at 10:47am

"...whoops I misaddressed my thank you note... so to jackson, thank you for the complement and if you ever make it to Israel please look me up." Will do. Am thinking of visiting Israel next Spring.

- jacksondyer

July 10, 2007 at 4:15pm

"jackson, we will never see eye to eye on marty. To you, he is a hero. To me, a buffoon. Never the twain shall meet, I reckon..." Having been in the military I rserve the word hero for very few activities and fiewer people. Being an editor of great magazine in peace time is not sufficient to make one a hero. What you don't get Cookie is that I defend Peretz from people like you who spend most of their time vilifying him. Hell, I would even defend you from people like you if they spent all their time vilifying you. I don't have to agree with someone in order to defend them from unfair criticism. This is what freedom of speech is really all about, Cookie.

- jacksondyer

July 10, 2007 at 7:40pm

I appreciate and welcome your words of wisdom.

- MrCookie1

July 10, 2007 at 7:55pm