THE SPINE APRIL 6, 2010
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I take it is a relief that, aside from its rhetorical pandering to the civil libertarian absolutists who can’t seem to grasp that Muslim terror networks are in a worldwide war with the United States and its remaining allies, the Obama administration is actually extending the life of the Bush presidency in its defense against jihad.
Eli Lake, who is among the most discerning journalists on the intelligence beat, has written an analysis in Reason on where—or, rather, how little—the Obami have deviated from Bush guidelines.
When it comes to the legal framework for confronting terrorism, President Obama is acting in no meaningful sense any different than President Bush after 2006, when the Supreme Court overturned the view that the president’s war time powers were effectively unlimited. As the Obama administration itself is quick to point out, the Bush administration also tried terrorists apprehended on U.S. soil in criminal courts, most notably “20th hijacker” Zacarias Moussaoui and shoe bomber Richard Reid. More important, President Obama has embraced and at times defended the same expansive view of a global war against Al Qaeda as President Bush.
The U.S. still reserves the right to hold suspected terrorists indefinitely without charge, try them via military tribunal, keep them imprisoned even if they are acquitted, and kill them in foreign countries with which America is not formally at war (including Yemen, Somalia, and Pakistan). When Obama closed the secret CIA prisons known as “black sites,” he specifically allowed for temporary detention facilities where a suspect could be taken before being sent to a foreign or domestic prison, a practice known as “rendition.” And even where the Obama White House has made a show of how it has broken with the Bush administration, such as outlawing enhanced interrogation techniques, it has done so through executive order, which can be reversed at any time by the sitting president.
Of course, judicial rulings have limited the government’s freedom on some matters. But, even on these, the administration has tried to curb the influence of the courts.
It’s true that elements of Bush policy have been reined in by other branches of government. The Supreme Court rejected the military commissions that were first developed for detainees sent to Guantanamo. Obama has remade the commissions, with help from Republicans in Congress, to comply with the high court’s ruling.
By the way, Lake refers to a TNR article by Jack Goldsmith, a top lawyer among the Bushies but a sharp critic of the Cheney school on how to protect national security. This is about fine distinctions ... as it ought to be. See also Goldsmith’s earlier piece in TNR on Obama’s war on terror.
So, no, Barack Obama is not trying to let the ACLU protect the warriors against us. It’s only that some legal minds wouldn’t mind if he did.
The 9/14 Presidency
Barack Obama is operating with the war powers granted George W. Bush three days after the 9/11 attacks.
Eli Lake | April 6, 2010
If you believe the president’s Republican critics, Barack Obama takes a law enforcement approach to terrorism. His FBI came under fire for reading Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the Nigerian national who nearly blew up an airplane on Christmas, his constitutional rights. His attorney general was blasted for wanting to give 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed a criminal trial in lower Manhattan. Republican Sen. Scott Brown rode to his historic upset victory in Massachusetts in part due to this slogan: “In dealing with terrorists, our tax dollars should pay for weapons to stop them, not lawyers to defend them.” Every sign suggests the GOP will make terrorism a wedge issue in the 2010 midterm elections. “As I’ve watched the events of the last few days,” former vice president Dick Cheney said shortly after the Abdulmutallab attack, “it is clear once again that President Obama is trying to pretend we are not at war.”
It’s true that the president’s speeches and some of his administration’s policy rollouts have emphasized a break from the Bush era. In the Quadrennial Defense Review, the guiding strategy for defense spending released every four years, the administration excised any reference to the “long war,” previously the go-to euphemism for the global war on terror. In a major speech last summer, the president’s top adviser on terrorism and homeland security, John Brennan, said explicitly that Obama rejected the phrase “global war” because “it plays into the misleading and dangerous notion that the U.S. is somehow in conflict with the rest of the world.” In a USA Today op-ed piece last February, Brennan argued that Republican critics were playing into Al Qaeda’s hands by suggesting U.S. courts could not handle terrorism prosecutions.
But these differences in style mask a sameness in substance that should worry civil libertarians. When it comes to the legal framework for confronting terrorism, President Obama is acting in no meaningful sense any different than President Bush after 2006, when the Supreme Court overturned the view that the president’s war time powers were effectively unlimited. As the Obama administration itself is quick to point out, the Bush administration also tried terrorists apprehended on U.S. soil in criminal courts, most notably “20th hijacker” Zacarias Moussaoui and shoe bomber Richard Reid. More important, President Obama has embraced and at times defended the same expansive view of a global war against Al Qaeda as President Bush.
The U.S. still reserves the right to hold suspected terrorists indefinitely without charge, try them via military tribunal, keep them imprisoned even if they are acquitted, and kill them in foreign countries with which America is not formally at war (including Yemen, Somalia, and Pakistan). When Obama closed the secret CIA prisons known as “black sites,” he specifically allowed for temporary detention facilities where a suspect could be taken before being sent to a foreign or domestic prison, a practice known as “rendition.” And even where the Obama White House has made a show of how it has broken with the Bush administration, such as outlawing enhanced interrogation techniques, it has done so through executive order, which can be reversed at any time by the sitting president.
The font of this extraordinary authority is a congressional resolution passed just three days after the 9/11 attacks. It says, “The president is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.”
Just as President Bush said the 9/14 resolution gave him the wartime powers to detain, interrogate, capture, and kill terrorists all over the world, so too does President Obama. On March 13, 2009 Justice Department lawyers said in a Habeas brief before the D.C. Federal Court that this resolution, known as the AUMF, or authorization of the use of military force, granted the administration detention authority.
It’s true that the Obama administration has rejected the early Bush administration’s assertion of an almost supreme wartime executive, or that the president’s wartime authorities can overrule laws passed by Congress. Also President Obama asserts that the powers granted by the 9/14 resolution must cohere to international laws of war. But these differences are less significant than one might imagine.
A speech last month from Harold Koh, the State Department’s legal adviser, acknowledged that the international laws of war have not properly contemplated a war against a global terror network. “Those laws of war were designed primarily for traditional armed conflicts among states,” Koh said. “Not conflicts against a diffuse, difficult-to-identify terrorist enemy, therefore construing what is ‘necessary and appropriate’ under the AUMF requires some ‘translation,’ or analogizing principles from the laws of war governing traditional international conflicts.”
As long as the AUMF remains the law of the land, any change in the legal conduct of our open-ended, undeclared war will be, at most, cosmetic. While it’s true that President Obama appears more reluctant to use these extraordinary powers than his predecessor, he is nonetheless asserting, enthusiastically at times, that he has such powers. And because so much of the American war on terror is conducted in secret, it is difficult to know what Obama is and is not doing to wage it.
The Mirage of Accountability
Unlike other wars in American history, a global war on a terrorist network has no geographic boundaries and no clear endpoint. FDR interned Japanese Americans until the end of World War II, an extraordinary assault on civil liberties. But at least there was no doubt what the end of that war would look like.
“The danger of a war that takes place everywhere and lasts forever is that it gives the president almost limitless authority to detain or even kill U.S. citizens and civilians anywhere in the world,” says Ben Wizner, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union. On February 3, Dennis Blair, director of national intelligence, confirmed that power in congressional testimony, telling lawmakers that the administration had the right to kill American citizens who joined Al Qaeda without court involvement or consultation with Congress. The only legal authority required, Blair said, was “special permission,” which amounts to presidential approval on a case-by-case basis.
This position troubles Philip Alston, the United Nations special rapporteur for targeted killings, whose requests for information on CIA drone strikes has been stonewalled by the Obama administration. “The U.S. under President Obama has apparently maintained the Bush administration’s view that, because it is involved in a global armed conflict against Al Qaeda, it is permitted to target and kill relevant individuals anywhere in the world,” Alston says.
The White House has repeatedly defended using the same powers that were frequent targets of Democratic criticism when Bush and Cheney were exercising them. In a December speech at West Point announcing a surge of 30,000 troops in Afghanistan, Obama underscored that the action was authorized by the September 14 resolution, which, he noted, passed by a vote of 98 to 0 in the Senate.
In the February 1 issue of The New Republic, Jack Goldsmith, a Justice Department lawyer during the Bush administration, argued that Obama has assumed his predecessor’s war powers in part because the early overreach of Bush prompted safeguards that make the executive branch more accountable. Goldsmith, who had been a sharp critic of Dick Cheney’s views on executive power, pointed to “armies of lawyers” in the current administration whose sole job is to make sure highly classified programs adhere to congressional restrictions. “The enhanced powers of the presidency after September 11 have become part of the national fabric, in short, because they have received the consent of our national institutions, and thus of the people themselves,” he concluded.
It’s true that elements of Bush policy have been reined in by other branches of government. The Supreme Court rejected the military commissions that were first developed for detainees sent to Guantanamo. Obama has remade the commissions, with help from Republicans in Congress, to comply with the high court’s ruling. Congress, which the Bush administration largely ignored when it developed its post-9/11 National Security Agency (NSA) surveillance program, has now reauthorized the Federal Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) to allow for much of what was decried as warrantless surveillance of Americans’ phone calls and email. And Congress has asserted at least limited oversight of the war: The top Republican and Democratic leaders of Congress, along with the chairmen and vice chairmen of the intelligence committees—the so-called Gang of Eight—are consulted on major intelligence programs and counterterrorism operations, as they were prior to 9/11.
But this kind of accountability is fundamentally handicapped by the fact that it has no public component. It is far too easy for the consulted members of Congress to conveniently forget their briefings when shadowy counterterrorism practices are disclosed in the media. Nancy Pelosi famously said she was never told about the CIA’s waterboarding and other “enhanced interrogations” after they came to light, even after the CIA produced an official record of a September 2002 briefing on interrogation techniques that said she attended.
These layers of accountability have not prevented abuses in the past. “The creation of the FISA Court in 1978 did not stop the Bush administration from circumventing it in 2001,” says Steven Aftergood, the head of the project on government secrecy for the Federation of American Scientists. “And neither Congress nor the courts have found a way to provide a remedy to people like Maher Arar, who was ‘rendered’ to Syria for abusive interrogation by the U.S. government though he was innocent of any role in terrorism. And the government has now normalized torture by redefining it in a convenient if unpersuasive way. The armies of lawyers that Goldsmith sees working on accountability are not going to hold anyone accountable for any of these developments. Nor will they compensate the victims.”
On the vital question of the public’s right to know what its government is doing, the Obama administration has a mixed record at best. On the transparency side, the Justice Department has disclosed the legal memos drafted in Bush’s second term that reined in some of the president’s extraordinary powers. Over objections from the CIA, the White House ordered the release of a Justice Department inspector general’s report on the enhanced interrogation program.
Yet while the Obama White House has not said so explicitly, its policy to date has been to protect any secret that could theoretically implicate allied intelligence services, thereby keeping dark one of the murkiest corners of counterterrorism. The Justice Department, for example, has urged the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit to throw out a civil suit brought on behalf of Binyam Mohammed, an Ethiopian national. Mohammed was first arrested in Pakistan, and likely tortured there, then sent to Morocco, Afghanistan, and finally the prison at Guantanamo Bay. Last February, he was released from Guantanamo with no charges filed against him. To keep details of the case from coming out, the Obama administration went so far as to threaten the British Foreign Office, saying the U.S. might withhold future intelligence cooperation if a British court released to the public a U.S. document confirming some of Mohammed’s poor treatment. In February the court ignored the pleadings of both Washington and London, releasing the seven-paragraph summary at the center of the controversy.
As for overseeing the intelligence community’s surveillance of Americans, the Obama administration has failed to appoint members to the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board, a panel formed in 2004 and modified in 2007 to prevent the government from spying on U.S. citizens. As former New Jersey Republican Gov. Thomas H. Kean, co-chairman of the 9/11 Commission, said in January, “We have now a massive capacity in this country to develop data on individuals, and the board should be the champion of seeing that collection capabilities do not intrude into privacy and civil liberties.”
The White House has also opposed a section of the 2011 intelligence authorization bill that would give the General Accounting Office greater authority to audit the intelligence community.
The Forever War
In an April 2009 speech at the National Archives announcing his policy on detainees and transparency, the president talked about the open-ended ambiguities of the current national security conflict. “Unlike the Civil War or World War II, we cannot count on a surrender ceremony to bring this journey to an end,” he said. “Right now, in distant training camps and in crowded cities, there are people plotting to take American lives. That will be the case a year from now, five years from now, and—in all probability—10 years from now.”
The man who wrote most of that speech, Deputy National Security Adviser for Strategic Communications Ben Rhodes, says Obama has deliberately narrowed the focus of the war on terror to Al Qaeda. He adds that the president is trying to leave a more sustainable legal framework for the war to his successor, pointing to the administration’s bipartisan work to make military commissions comply with the Supreme Court’s 2006 ruling rejecting Bush’s approach.
“We would never claim we are doing everything different,” Rhodes says. “There were good steps taken in the previous administration that we are building upon, but there are also other areas [where] we are providing a different focus.” He also says, however, there are no current plans for revising or supplementing the open-ended September 14 authorization of force.
Changing terminology and acknowledging the problems with open-ended powers are not the same as resolving the ambiguities and hard questions inherent in fighting against disparate groups intent on waging asymmetric warfare against civilians all over the globe. Doug Feith, undersecretary of defense for policy in the first Bush term, argues that both the “war” and “law enforcement” approaches to fighting terrorist organizations were imperfect concepts. Law enforcement is inadequate, he says, because it focuses on building evidence to try people for crimes that have already been committed, as opposed to preventing a deadly attack in the first place. But the war concept is problematic too.
“The nature of the enemy is that it is spread out all over the world,” Feith says. “It is an ideological movement rooted in religion, and it is a network and decentralized. For all of those reasons the construct or concept of war did not fit perfectly either. The principle strategic challenge in this war is how do you fight an enemy located in numerous countries with whom you are not at war.”
It would be easy to embrace the idea that all of Obama’s and Bush’s extraordinary powers are premised on a wildly exaggerated threat. Many more Americans died on our highways in 2001 than from terrorism, but the threat of driving has not mobilized the federal government to create a massive secret bureaucracy to protect us from car accidents.
But small networks of non-uniformed terrorists are indeed actively plotting to inflict maximum civilian deaths in the U.S. and elsewhere, with weapons as potent as they can get their hands on. Only a day before reasserting the president’s power to kill American citizens, Dennis Blair had told the Senate Intelligence Committee he was certain Al Qaeda would attempt an attack on the continental United States by July. After Christmas bomber Abdulmutallab began cooperating with the FBI at the end of January, he told the bureau there were other English-speaking terrorists being trained at camps he had visited in Yemen. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee released a report in January detailing how American ex-felons who converted to Islam in prison had traveled to Yemen for possible terrorist training.
Even if there were no jihadist threat, the march of technology has reached a point where small networks of individuals can launch the same kind of mass-casualty attacks that a generation ago were the province only of nation-states. If one of those terrorists blows up a plane or poisons a reservoir, even if the operation isn’t as deadly as 9/11, there will almost certainly be a public demand for more draconian measures to keep us safe.
Before that happens, there are some steps that can be taken to make sure the extraordinary powers granted on September 14, 2001 do not become permanent. Some legal scholars have suggested that the extraordinary powers be sunsetted and re-debated by Congress every few years, as elements of the Patriot Act on occasion expire. The fundamental anti-terrorism powers granted British authorities for most of the 20th century known at first as the Prevention of Violence Act and then later as the Prevention of Terrorism Act, expired every few years requiring new authorizations—even as the U.K. fought a counter-insurgency campaign at home against the IRA.
This kind of approach is in keeping with recommendations of Yale law professor Bruce Ackerman. Soon after 9/11 he argued that there is an important distinction between war powers, which he says are inappropriate in the context of counterterrorism, and a state of emergency, which would require limited abridgements of civil liberties that are time limited. The British laws first developed to combat the IRA and today used against radical Muslim groups are still described in the law as “temporary powers.”
Second, Republicans and Democrats have pressed the administration to strengthen the oversight of the intelligence community by appointing the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board, an idea that has been championed by both chairmen of the bipartisan 9/11 commission. Such independent watchdogs are an important part of curbing abuses and provide a place, besides Congress, where whistleblowers can register concerns.
Finally, lawmakers in Congress have at times demanded more public accountability. News stories about the NSA surveillance program, extraordinary rendition, and secret prisons have produced a fair amount of congressional outrage. But Congress has not asked for a regular public accounting from the intelligence community. Indeed, the budget for all current intelligence operations remains a state secret, the details of which only a handful of congressional committees are permitted to know. There are some cases in which secrecy is necessary for successful statecraft, but Congress can enforce a strict sunset on these secrets as well. If the details of U.S.-Pakistan cooperation must be kept in the dark for now, they should not remain that way indefinitely. A model for declassification can be found in the Clinton Administration, which in 2000 released much of the secret U.S. history of aiding Augusto Pinochet in Chile due to an executive order to release most secret documents more than 25 years old.
Above all, we must be honest with ourselves. Obama, like Bush, is committed to a long war against an amorphous network of terrorists. In at least the constitutional sense, he is no harder or softer than his predecessor. And like his predecessor, he has not come up with a plan for relinquishing these extraordinary powers once the long war ends, if it ever does. If change is going to come to U.S. policy on terrorism, it will have to come from a bipartisan recognition that Americans cannot trust their government to tell them when they are safe again.
Eli Lake is national security correspondent for the Washington Times.
33 comments
Didn't read but agree. TNR had a piece on this a while ago, titled "The Cheney Fallacy". Shame most people are too stupid or cynical to acknowledge it. jeffrey
- jnordlander
April 7, 2010 at 1:01am
Discussing civil disobedience in class today and was like w0w Palestinians should try this. The Guardian and assorted peaceniks who Marty so thoroughly despises would need new pants after creaming in them. Then I saw this article and was like w0w I am so smart. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07westbank.html?hp
- jnordlander
April 7, 2010 at 1:11am
Via Jeff Goldberg: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2010/04/aipac-is-good-for-the-jews/38551/ "The question is whether AIPAC’s public advocacy of US support for Israel ultimately must bear responsibility for the rise of anti-Semitism here and abroad? Does Jewish advocacy that calls attention to itself ultimately get the whole people in trouble, and would diaspora Jews do better to keep their heads down and creep around the fringes of public life? The answer, I am glad to say, is a clear no. In the United States at least, lobbying for Zion turns out to be good for the Jews. The rise of AIPAC and other Jewish groups who make the case for stronger US support for Israel angers some international affairs specialists and others who think that on the whole the US-Israel relationship is bad for the United States. There definitely are groups of people who, while doing their level best to fight the temptation (so are they all honorable men), are so angry and so frightened by what they see as the Jewish juggernaut crushing dissent and imposing suicidal Middle Eastern policies on the stupidly passive American gentile population, sometimes cross that all-important line that separates the virtuously anti-Zionist from the vilely anti-Semitic. But out there where it really counts, in the great sea of American public opinion, Jewish support for Israel doesn’t work that way. In fact, from what I can see the (mistaken) view that Jews are more hawkish than most Americans on the subject of Israel probably works to reduce anti-Semitism in the United States. AIPAC, in other words, is good for the Jews, regardless of whether the positions it advocates are good for either Israel or the United States from a foreign policy perspective. And because AIPAC and its allies help defend this country against a potential upsurge in anti-Semitism, these groups provide a valuable public service that has nothing to do with the merits of the policies they support." http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2010/04/05/why-aipac-is-good-for-the-jews-and-for-everyone-else/
- jdyer
April 7, 2010 at 9:49am
jnordlander: nice to see Palestinians planting trees, what a good idea. maybe they'll re-write school texts next. Thanks JacksonD, and Jeff Goldberg, for increasing visibility of Walter Russell Meade's blog, which is quite thought-provoking these days in deciphering where post-Bush43 foreign policy is heading. I particularly like Meade's clarity in describing "...what many ordinary Americans see when they look at the Middle East..." Too bad the American left is stuck in it's silo, still only reading their Walt-Mearsheimer's bible. from the same link to WRM: "...it’s not just that being pro-Israel is seen as being pro-American. It’s also that being anti-Israel looks anti-American to much of this country. It’s not just that Israel is ‘good’ — democratic, pro-American, etc. Its enemies (Iran, Hamas, Hezbolleh and so on) are ‘bad’. They are anti-American and anti-democratic. They practice terrorism. A number of Arab leaders sided with Hitler in World War Two. They sided with the Soviet Union during the Cold War. And there are the terrorists of today. Even when they aren’t openly joining our enemies, they are overcharging us for oil. Obviously the reality is much more complicated than this caricature. But something like this picture is what many ordinary Americans see when they look at the Middle East. ...
- K2K
April 7, 2010 at 10:50am
Did Marty get Reason's permission to reprint Lake's article in its entirety? If so, why is it reprinted as quoted matter beneath a blog post summarizing its content, and not simply published as its own entry somewhere on this site? This is a really mystifying - and probably illegal, what with copyright theft being a crime and all - way to present this material.
- rhubarbs
April 7, 2010 at 10:51am
rhubarbs "Did Marty get Reason's permission to reprint Lake's article in its entirety?" I didnt' know that Marty needed to ask rhubarb for permission to post an article here. Is rhubarb a lawyer engaged in challenging Peretz' posting policy? When a Marty hater like rue-barb has nothing of substance to say he fishes and carps with dull barbs.
- jdyer
April 7, 2010 at 11:32am
This post is evil. What Christian, following the commandment of the Golden Rule, could possibly endorse "The U.S. still reserves the right to hold suspected terrorists indefinitely without charge, try them via military tribunal, keep them imprisoned even if they are acquitted, and kill them in foreign countries with which America is not formally at war (including Yemen, Somalia, and Pakistan)." Imagine if tomorrow Cuba kidnapped you because your neighbor was an expat trying to overthrow Castro, then held you forever without charge at the whim of some shadowy official, then held in jail even if you were acquitted (see Jane Mayer's account of the mysterious "Russian woman" at CIA in Scheuer's group). I can't believe Judaism would view this any differently. Jdyer: It's called copyright law and it entitles the author to statutory damages of $25,000 per violation -- maybe someone should pass the word on to Lake. For our purposes it only speaks to Marty's respect for the rule of law, let alone the customs of online journalism.
- Lymon1
April 7, 2010 at 12:44pm
Correction: $30,000.
- Lymon1
April 7, 2010 at 12:45pm
"Jdyer: It's called copyright law and it entitles the author to statutory damages of $25,000 per violation -- maybe someone should pass the word on to Lake. For our purposes it only speaks to Marty's respect for the rule of law, let alone the customs of online journalism." I am aware of copyright law and I doubt that it applies in this case. What makes you thing that there was some copyright infringement, here? If you do, why don't you report it to the copyright owners of the article.
- jdyer
April 7, 2010 at 2:02pm
Jdyer -- from what I've seen of your writings here, I'm not surprised you wouldn't see the cutting and pasting of another's entire work as raising the potential for copyright infringement. I'll leave it to the people at Reason, who likely own the copyright, to do their own enforcement. If you, on the other hand, wish to point me to some similar conduct on your own part, I'll take you up on your suggestion.
- Lymon1
April 7, 2010 at 2:37pm
Lymon1 "Jdyer -- from what I've seen of your writings here, I'm not surprised you wouldn't see the cutting and pasting of another's entire work as raising the potential for copyright infringement. I'll leave it to the people at Reason, who likely own the copyright, to do their own enforcement." Yes, leave it to the people affected to sue. "If you, on the other hand, wish to point me to some similar conduct on your own part, I'll take you up on your suggestion." Any time, brother Lymon, any time. If you can point to some copyright material you published, I'll give you a chance to file a frivolous suit, brother Lymon.
- jdyer
April 7, 2010 at 4:42pm
Good work Marty. I think Obama is fighting this new kind of war with all the power he has to fight it.
- NR105702
April 7, 2010 at 6:48pm
Why would anyone assume the article was quoted without permission?
- noga1
April 7, 2010 at 7:46pm
Cousin Lymon: "This post is evil. What Christian, following the commandment of the Golden Rule, could possibly endorse "The U.S. still reserves the right to hold suspected terrorists indefinitely without charge, try them via military tribunal, keep them imprisoned even if they are acquitted, and kill them in foreign countries with which America is not formally at war (including Yemen, Somalia, and Pakistan)." Imagine if tomorrow Cuba kidnapped you because your neighbor was an expat trying to overthrow Castro, then held you forever without charge at the whim of some shadowy official, then held in jail even if you were acquitted (see Jane Mayer's account of the mysterious "Russian woman" at CIA in Scheuer's group). I can't believe Judaism would view this any differently." How do you suggest we should protect ourselves from the comrades in arm of Castro, Bin Laden, Chavez, and Ahmadinejad? This policy, btw, was authorized by congress: "The font of this extraordinary authority is a congressional resolution passed just three days after the 9/11 attacks. It says, “The president is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.” So you think the US is evil, do you?
- jdyer
April 7, 2010 at 9:59pm
Nobody's against Israel. What people are against is putting Israel's interests above the U.S.' Claiming they're against Israel is just a red-herring to avoid the real issue.
- OscarPeck
April 8, 2010 at 12:00am
Every so often OscarPeck shows up with some stupid remark. Here is his latest: "Nobody's against Israel. What people are against is putting Israel's interests above the U.S.' Claiming they're against Israel is just a red-herring to avoid the real issue." Nobody? Does that inclide David Duke? I would put it this way: Claiming that you are putting the interests of the US above those of Israel is a red herring. How do you know that being supportive of Israel is not in the interest of the US? Like David Duke and Mearsheimer you are trying to cover up your Israel hatred by saying that US interests are better served by not supporting Israel.
- jdyer
April 8, 2010 at 12:27am
Gosh JD, you're right - Congress has never passed an unconstitutional law. Citizens United was an early April Fool's Day joke by the Supreme Court -- that McCain Feingold law never happened. And yes, we cannot keep America safe unless we give some shadowy Russian immigrant woman at CIA the power to override every recommendation or even judgment of a military court that a terror suspect was a case of mistaken identity, even if it's only based on her "gut feeling." Nothing less will do. Tell you what JD, if we can stick you in my Cuba hypothetical (you may substitute any other country that you wish) and at the end of the day, when you're stuck in that nation's prison for a decade, EVEN AFTER BEING ACQUITTED, and are told it's because there's an anonymous intelligence analyst who doesn't like the cut of your jib, we'll ask you about what's "evil" and see what you say.
- Lymon1
April 8, 2010 at 1:35pm
You're invoking David Duke? And you call me an idiot? Oh yea, David Duke posts at TNR and he's part of the discussion in this country. Reading your posts, you're incapable of making a substantive point. You people names, and loathesome names at that. Nothing but the tired argument if you oppose Israel's policy on X then you hate jews. Sure, Israel and US interests often coincide. But the US needs to look at it from the aspect of its interests. And that doesn't mean that the US should agree with Israel on everything it does; nor does it mean that it MUST agree with Israel. But now that you mention David Duke, you do realize that the Christian Fundamentalists, you know them....the ones who almost PUT DUKE INTO OFFICE in LOUISIANA- agree with you that by definition, the US should support Israel no matter what it does. Be careful who you sleep with Dyer, because you're a hell of a lot closer to Duke than I am.
- OscarPeck
April 8, 2010 at 6:28pm
Lymon1 "Gosh JD, you're right - Congress has never passed an unconstitutional law." It's not unconstitutional till the Supreme Court says and even then the Congress and the President can overrule the supreme court by passing fresh legislation into law or if they have to consider amending the Constitution. Just because Cousin Lyman thinks a law is unconstitutional doesn’t mean that it is.
- jdyer
April 8, 2010 at 8:00pm
OscarPeck “You're invoking David Duke? And you call me an idiot? Oh yea, David Duke posts at TNR and he's part of the discussion in this country.” You said “Nobody's against Israel. What people are against is putting Israel's interests above the U.S.' Claiming they're against Israel is just a red-herring to avoid the real issue." You never said “nobody” that posts at TNR. Moreover, say what you will, even among posters here there are those who are against Israel. I suspect that you are among those posters. The rest of your post is just insane: “But now that you mention David Duke, you do realize that the Christian Fundamentalists, you know them....the ones who almost PUT DUKE INTO OFFICE in LOUISIANA- agree with you that by definition, the US should support Israel no matter what it does. Be careful who you sleep with Dyer, because you're a hell of a lot closer to Duke than I am.” Do you have any proof that those who voted for David Duke in Louisiana support Israel? As for who is closer to David Duke, I doubt that he would approve of a Zionist like myself, though methinks that he would approve of your views that the US should "put its own interest above those of the Zionists" who according to him control this country.
- jdyer
April 8, 2010 at 8:09pm
From the NOT EVERY MUSLIM IS A TERRORIST DEPARTMENT: Some terrorists do have friends in HIGH PLACES: "Qatari Diplomat Was Going to See Qaeda Inmate" "Qatari Diplomat Allegedly Told Air Marshalls He Was Trying to Set His Sandals on Fire" By KIRIT RADIA and JASON RYAN "The Qatari diplomat who was arrested for sarcastically telling air marshals on a jetliner that he was trying to set his shoes on fire was en route to visit an imprisoned member of al Qaeda at the Supermax prison in Colorado. Mohammed Al-Madadi, a 27 year old official at the Qatari embassy in Washington, has full diplomatic immunity that makes charging him in U.S. courts very difficult. Federal officials confirmed that he will not face any charges, saying he "absolutely will not be charged with a crime. He has diplomatic immunity. He invoked it." The joke, however, probably will cost al-Madadi his post in the U.S. The diplomat is on his way back to Washington today and is expected to be sent out of the country soon as both sides are looking for a way to bring the matter to a close without further embarrassment, according to a senior U.S. official who spoke on the condition of anonymity due to diplomatic sensitivities surrounding the situation. Al-Madadi was flying first class to Denver for a consular visit with jailed al Qaeda member Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri who is imprisoned at the Colorado "supermax" penitentiary. Al-Marri was arrested in Illinois shortly after the 9/11 attacks and is believed to have been an al Qaeda sleeper agent. During the flight, the diplomat allegedly went to the bathroom about 40 minutes before landing for a surreptitious smoke, an act that is against federal law. When flight attendants saw smoke coming from the bathroom, they alerted air marshalls who asked Al-Madadi what he was doing. Al-Madadi allegedly made the off-handed comment to the officials he was trying to light his shoes on fire, at which point the air marshalls detained him and alerted authorities on the ground. Two F-16 fighter jets were scrambled to escort the plane and President Obama was notified of the incident as he flew to Prague on board Air Force One. After hours of questioning at a nearby hotel, law enforcement and counterterrorism authorities determined Al-Madadi posed no terror threat and he was released. U.S. and Qatari officials were in frequent contact Wednesday night and today, both in Washington and in Doha. A delegation from the Qatari embassy in Washington met him in Denver this morning. How Will the State Department React? The State Department today would not confirm Al-Madadi will be sent out of the country. "I expect this to be resolved very quickly," spokesman PJ Crowley told reporters, though he declined to elaborate how. "I understand that we have options available to us. I understand the Qatari government has options available to them," he added, referring to the U.S. right to declare Al-Madadi "persona non grata" that would essentially kick him out of the country, something neither side wants due to the diplomatic embarrassment it entails....." Read the rest here: http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=10323646
- jdyer
April 8, 2010 at 8:12pm
OscarPeck "Reading your posts, you're incapable of making a substantive point. You people names,..." Yea, I people names, I people you Oscar Peck. An oscar pecked poster, what a pitiful fate.
- jdyer
April 8, 2010 at 9:02pm
Attack of the mutant tomato: "‘Superdominant’ mutant tomato gene could spark revolution" By JUDY SIEGEL "Discovery by HU, New York researchers produces much higher yields and improved taste." http://www.jpost.com/LandedPages/PrintArticle.aspx?id=172544
- jdyer
April 8, 2010 at 9:18pm
Interestng that Rhubarb and Lymon simply assume Peretz, a publisher of long date, both incompetent and guilty until proved innocent (with respect to copyright and "fair use").
- TNR.Reader
April 8, 2010 at 9:44pm
K2K, many thanks for the link to Mead.
- TNR.Reader
April 8, 2010 at 9:53pm
I think you got it Mr. Peretz... And if you explore the fact that Obama is nothing but a more intelligent and pragmatic Bush (with the exception of Israel), you have exposed the pseudo-messiah... There's work to be done on the deep presuppositions that animate Obama's economic policy. I think that if you do that work instead of constantly complaining (something that will never produce any results and only places you in a fake position) and if you really demonstrate that supply side (even if in a weird form) is alive and well in Obama's America you will score some points... Quit fighting with an open chest Mr. Peretz. It won't do. Not in this toxic atmosphere.
- Ideaot
April 9, 2010 at 5:55am
It's likely that the political calculation of protecting his right flank was a major consideration. It also had the advantage of solving the dilemma of humane and just disposition of prisoners.
- awm34
April 9, 2010 at 9:03am
Once again Dyer, your definition of supporting Israel is putting Israel above the U.S....and if yoiu don't do that you are against Israel. Thus, any reasonable discussion is impossible because if yoiu don't agree with policy X, you are anti-Israel. And of course if you disagree with one policy of Israel, you hate jews. And yes your fellow Theocrats voted for Duke en masse; I wouldn't say they gleefully supported him, but they voted for him. YOu can look at the returns in north louisiana to see that.
- OscarPeck
April 9, 2010 at 10:02am
OscarPeck “Once again Dyer, your definition of supporting Israel is putting Israel above the U.S....and if yoiu don't do that you are against Israel. Thus, any reasonable discussion is impossible because if yoiu don't agree with policy X, you are anti-Israel.” Calm down, Peck. First of all how do you know it’s not in the interest of the US to support Israel? Secondly, I wasn’t “defining” anything. I was merely saying that people who assume that it’s not in the best interest of the US to support Israel are anti-Israel. Now, if you deny that, show me how it will benefit the US not to support Israel? And of course if you disagree with one policy of Israel, you hate jews.” Now you are being mendacious and stupid. Where did I say that disagreeing with “one policy of Israel” is a sign of antisemitism? In fact I disagree with many policies enacted by the Israeli government both on foreign and domestic policy. “And yes your fellow Theocrats voted for Duke en masse; I wouldn't say they gleefully supported him, but they voted for him. YOu can look at the returns in north louisiana to see that.” My “fellow Theocrats?” What the fuck are you talking about? I am not even religious much less a “theocrat.” I asked you to present statistics that show that masses of “theocrats” that support Israel voted for David Duke. In fact I’d like you to show me that Israel was an issue in that campaign.
- jdyer
April 9, 2010 at 11:57am
Where's Irony? Or where's the Irony? As in Road! Superman was flying across North America to get to his weekly poker game with all the other super heroes. When he got to the game they noted how distressed he looked. "Well, I'll tell you," he said. "I was flying over Miami Beach and with my super vision saw Wonder Woman, and you all know what a super thing I have for her, lying on the beach on her back, naked and writhing and moaning in ecstacy. I made a super bee line for her and got right on top of her for a perfect, super sexual landing." "Wow" said all the super heroes. "Wonder Woman must've really been surprised"!
- basman
April 9, 2010 at 4:13pm
"Not as surprised as Invisible Man"!
- basman
April 9, 2010 at 4:14pm
Oh Itz! You have the soul of a Poet. This wouldn't be the first time you've served up a smile to go with the morning coffee.
- jacko
April 10, 2010 at 11:20am
You're more than welcome, buddy.
- basman
April 10, 2010 at 1:55pm