The New Republic

I can vouch that my mom matches the same description (except she's late 50's, not early 60's), and she had the exact same reaction.

It's not just that she didn't like Palin--she thinks it speaks very poorly for McCain. It didn't just show desperation and political calculation, it shows he's "lost his marbles," as you put it.

- alexmparker

August 30, 2008 at 2:38pm

Real feminists should, and probably do, recognize that Hillary lost because she wasn't really as well qualified as Obama even without getting into the charisma factor (twelve years as a Constitutional law prof at Chicago trumps being married to a gifted politician in my view); and because she ran a lousy campaign that had all the signs of transitioning into a disastrous administration.

I think this is deadly for McCain. He so obviously doesn't understand the people he's trying to pander to here that the result is most likely to be fatally counterproductive. Horny ol' Naval Aviator falls in love with the fecund beauty queen outdoorswoman? Give me a break.

- Robert Powell

August 30, 2008 at 2:39pm

Yesterday I was dismayed with the McCain's decision.

However, my wife convinced me that I'm just sexist. Think about the following list

Bill Clinton, a governor of  small state, Edwards, one term senator, Dean a one term governor of a small state, Obama, freshman senator, Palin, a freshman governor .  Is  Palin really the odd MAN out? Is she really so implausible  President compare to the rest of Presidents  wannabe?.  I don't think so. But she is not running to be a President, only President in training.

- jacobt1

August 30, 2008 at 2:53pm

When I mentioned the Plain, excuse me, Palin pick to a 69 year old male Republican co-worker of mine yesterday, he just rolled his eyes.  If someone like that recognized this pick as a blatant pander, McCain has just bought himself a world of problems.

- zardoz67

August 30, 2008 at 3:01pm

"Bill Clinton, a governor of  small state, Edwards, one term senator, Dean a one term governor of a small state, Obama, freshman senator, Palin, a freshman governor .  Is  Palin really the odd MAN out? Is she really so implausible  President compare to the rest of Presidents  wannabe?."

Bill Clinton, Arkansas attorney general who taught constitutional law at the U of Arkansas and served multiple terms as govenor; Edwards who got exactly nowhere, and deservedly so, given his lack of relevant experience; Dean likewise; Obama, community organizer, multi-term state senator, taught constitutional law at U of Chicago, four years as US Senator, significant author.

Palin, mayor of town of 8,500, governor for year and a half of state with population less than Brooklyn; believes that creationism is science and that global warming is not man-made.

Implausible?  Yep, and sexism has nothing to do with it.

- timteeter

August 30, 2008 at 3:06pm

Oh, and there is no such thing as "President in training," only "potential President in waiting."

- timteeter

August 30, 2008 at 3:07pm

Won't work, Jake. She's a fox, but she's got a BS in Journalism from Idaho, a few years as mayor of a (really) small town, and a couple of years as Governor of a state with a smaller population than Obama's congressional district. Doesn't mean she's not bright, capable and all, but the longer you look at this, the worse it reflects on McCain's judgment.

It's another red flag about a campaign organization that has given all the early signs of transitioning into a truly disastrous administration if McCain manages to win, which I find increasingly unlikely.

- Robert Powell

August 30, 2008 at 3:12pm

I said something similar on another thread, too, but it makes more sense here.

The fact that she is both unqualified and very attractive might exacerbate the situation. One can't help but wonder (given McCain met her only once) whether attractiveness had something to do with it. Most women have seen enough rewards go to less deserving but more attractive women that it's not something they particularly like seeing. Particularly by older men who do it under the guise of mentoring.

Women might well resent that.

- epicciuto

August 30, 2008 at 3:20pm

Is there some one-term governor out there named Dean? Certainly not Howard Dean, who was governor of Vermont for five terms from 1991 to 2003. Bill Clinton had also been governor of Arkansas for ten years, and he was attorney general before that.

John Edwards wasn't the most qualified guy out there, but he had a full six-year term in the Senate when he ran for president in 2004, which isn't nothing.

Ted Strickland, like Palin, was elected in 2006, but unlike Palin he several years in Congress to add to his resume when he was at the top of the VP's list.

And as for Obama, when he was giving his famous speech on Iraq in 2002, Sarah Palin was a small-town mayor running *unsuccessfully* to be lieutenant governor of one of the nation's smallest states, population-wise. And when Obama was sitting on the Foreign Relations Committee, she was still a small-town mayor.

- alexmparker

August 30, 2008 at 3:34pm

My mom is a lifelong Alabaman in her mid-60s who voted Democratic for the first time in 2000 (and again in 2004) but had otherwise voted Republican for most of her life. She's not a particularly engaged voter and goes more on a general feel about a candidate's judgment than she does any particular issue. When I asked her last night what she thought of Palin as McCain's VP choice, she said, "She seems like a nice person, but it makes John McCain look ridiculous."

- mefestus

August 30, 2008 at 4:03pm

Sarah Louise Heath Palin (pronunciation:pay'-lynn, IPA: /'pe?l?n/; born February 11, 1964) is the current governor of the U.S. state of Alaska and the presumptive Republican vice presidential nominee for the 2008 United States presidential election.

Palin was elected governor and assumed office in December 2006, after defeating incumbent governor Frank Murkowski in the Republican primary and former Democratic governor Tony Knowles in the general election. She was the youngest person, and the first woman, to be elected governor of Alaska. Before becoming governor, Palin served two terms on the Wasilla, Alaska, City Council from 1992 to 1996, and was elected Mayor of Wasilla in 1996 and 1999. She lost her race for lieutenant governor of Alaska in 2002. Palin holds a Bachelor of Science degree in journalism from the University of Idaho.

Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission

Governor Murkowski appointed Palin Ethics Commissioner of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission,[19] where she served from 2003 to 2004 until resigning in protest over what she called the "lack of ethics" of fellow Alaskan Republican leaders, who ignored her whistleblowing complaints of legal violations and conflicts of interest.[20][3] After she resigned, she exposed the state Republican Party's chairman, Randy Ruedrich, one of her fellow Oil & Gas commissioners, who was accused of doing work for the party on public time, and supplying a lobbyist with a sensitive e-mail.[21] Palin filed formal complaints against both Ruedrich and former Alaska Attorney General Gregg Renkes, who both resigned; Ruedrich paid a record $12,000 fine.[3]

Sarah Palin is a Sarah Palin is more ready to be the President than Obama whose main achievements in life to be born to unmarried mother and doing community service.

- jacobt1

August 30, 2008 at 4:45pm

Maybe the McCain campaign was reading this blog (which has all of 4 entries since July 4) when he chose Palin:

puma4palin.blogspot.com

- mmarvit2

August 30, 2008 at 5:00pm

Jennifer Rubin wrote:

She brought down Alaska’s governor, attorney general, and state Republican chairman (see my “Most Popular Governor,” July 16, 2007). She killed the “bridge to nowhere.” She used increased tax revenues from high oil prices to give Alaskans a rebate. She slashed government spending. She took on the biggest industry in Alaska, the oil companies, to work out an equitable deal on building a new gas pipeline.

And second, in a race against two first class talkers Palin is a doer. Her life story is filled with action: hunt, fish, have five kids, run for office, tackle old boys, slash the budget, and so on. She does a lot. “Sarah the Barracuda” got her nickname for aggressive play on the basketball court – and it stuck in elected office.  Contrast that to the light footprint of Barack Obama, who never seems to accomplish anything. That was even apparent at the Democratic Convention when both in the autobiographical film and Joe Biden’s speech we saw the straining to elevate and inflate the meager accomplishments of Obama’s public record. His greatest triumphs have been writing books, giving speeches, and running for office.

- jacobt1

August 30, 2008 at 5:03pm

Sorry, jacob, but you should pay more attention to the blogs you post on.  Sarah Palin did anything but "kill" the Bridge to Nowhere.   See

blogs.tnr.com/.../did-palin-really-fight-the-bridge-to-nowhere.aspx

For that matter, I'm not an Alaskan, but I'm told she won the election as governor because a) she was a Republican, and b) her name was not Frank Murkowski.

"Sarah Palin is a Sarah Palin is more ready to be the President than Obama whose main achievements in life to be born to unmarried mother and doing community service."

Please, don't be a parody of yourself.

- timteeter

August 30, 2008 at 5:37pm

You are just spoiling for a fight on this thread, aren't you, Jake?

- scrubbyoak

August 30, 2008 at 5:46pm

"For that matter, I'm not an Alaskan, but I'm told she won the election as governor because a) she was a Republican, and b) her name was not Frank Murkowski."

For that matter, I'm not an Democrat , but I'm told Obama  won  because a) He  was a Democrat, and b) his  name was not Clinton."

- jacobt1

August 30, 2008 at 5:53pm

"His greatest triumphs have been writing books . . ."

Written one yourself lately, jacob?  If you had, you wouldn't be so quick to belittle the achievement.

- ironyroad

August 30, 2008 at 5:57pm

Jacob,

With the all the bashing of Obama over Foreign Policy, can you seriously look anyone in the eye and say (that if GOD forbid something happened to McCain if he were to become President, and I don't mean death per se, let's say he somehow was shot like Reagan) you believe that Sarah Palin is qualified to take over.

To put it in another way, if something were to happen to McCain or Obama if either became President,  Who would you want to answer that "3a.m. call"? Joe Biden or Sarah Palin?  Please be honest, and no spin or talking points.

- lamh31

August 30, 2008 at 6:04pm

timteeter said, "For that matter, I'm not an Alaskan, but I'm told she won the election as governor because a) she was a Republican, and b) her name was not Frank Murkowski."

That is a truthy statement, but not quite true. She won the Repbulican primary because she was fresh and appealing, had taken on the crooked Republican leadership and exposed ethics violations by the state party chair, and because she was not Frank Murkowski. But she did make a bold move months before the Repub primary to run against Murkowski, who was unpopular but not yet radioactive at that point. It was a good call, and paid off well. She did have to beat ex-Governor Tony Knowles in the general election, which was not trivial but Republicans start the game on 3rd base in statewide races here.

Overall, she has been a pretty good Governor, and I think her capabilities are greater than her resume. She has won most of the things she wanted, raised oil taxes (after the bribery scandal) and won the gas line deal she wanted, which may very well lead to a a gas pipeline.

All of which means it is not a good idea to underestimate her, and as many others have suggested, make McCain and his judgement (and obvious flip-flop on "experience") the target, with the criticism of Palin being more implied than explicit.

But whoever Jennifer Rubin is, she is full of it. "She slashed government spending." Totally false. She trimmed around the edges of an expanding budget in a time when the state had an enormous surplus. State government spending has increased under Palin by any measure you might use. Her second paragraph there is more self-parody than truth. And Jacobt1 is back to his old funny business.

- JEFF FREY

August 30, 2008 at 6:15pm

lamh31 said:

You are asking a wrong question.

I would rather   Sarah Palin answers  that "3a.m. call than  Obama.

I know that Obama will be always wrong.

To answer your question about Joe Biden, to tell you honesty. It's a hard choce. Biden speaks with authority, on another hand, his track record is awful . He was wrong  about the first Iraq war, he was wrong (according to his boss) about the second Iraq war. He was wrong about the surge. He was wrong about so many issues during the Cold war. He also think that he is very smart. He doesn't understand his limitations..

- jacobt1

August 30, 2008 at 6:24pm

"For that matter, I'm not an Democrat , but I'm told Obama  won  because a) He  was a Democrat, and b) his  name was not Clinton."

Funny, I was unaware that Edwards, Biden, Richardson, Dodd, and Kucinich had all changed their name to Clinton.  Must have made voting in those early states sort of weird.  I was also unaware that Clinton was such an unpopular surname among Democrats.  I guess if Hillary hadn't been dragged down by the Clinton brand, she would have been leading the early polls by 40-50 points instead of merely 20-30.

- AlanSP

August 30, 2008 at 6:33pm

jacobt1 writes today:

-- Yesterday I was dismayed with the McCain's decision.

-- However, my wife convinced me that I'm just sexist.

yesterday, jacobt1 wrote:

-- What's nice about Palin, is that Obama cultists  will show their sexism again. They would not be able to hide their hate.  

jacobt1's wife should spend less time convincing him and more time washing his mouth out with soap.

blogs.tnr.com/.../i-ll-see-your-biden-and-raise-you-a-palin.aspx

- ndmackenzie

August 30, 2008 at 6:36pm

"I would rather   Sarah Palin answers  that "3a.m. call than  Obama."

Alright, Jake, now I now that you're completely full of shit. No thinking person can really believe that. You're either an idiot or your lying your ass off.

- sullydog

August 30, 2008 at 9:29pm

sully, jacob is married to his Hillary blow up doll. He is just endlessly venting.

Jeff Frey, good info and advice. thanks

- blackton

August 30, 2008 at 10:56pm

Here's hoping the McCain campaign believes what jacob1 is (lamely) attempting to sell. It's unlikely anyone else will.

For my money, one of the most interesting qualifications Obama has, and one that has gotten little attention as far as I can tell, is that he taught Constitutional law for twelve years at the University of Chicago, and got some solid conservative influences in the process.

But Obama's BEST qualification is the self-evident leadership and managerial expertise that allowed him to assemble one of the most disciplined and effective campaign organizations in living memory. If a campaign outfit is the best indicator of the kind of administration one can expect, and I think it is, this will be a good one. McCain's, in contrast, looks like a series of chaotic, shoot-from-the-hip disasters waiting to happen.

- Robert Powell

August 30, 2008 at 10:57pm

sullydog,

"Alright, Jake, now I now that you're completely full of shit. No thinking person can really believe that. You're either an idiot or your lying your ass off."

Alright, little jerk, unable to understand other people point of view. Let me give you a hint.

I'm sure I would rather  Obama  answers  that "3a.m. call than  McCain.

I'm sure you would rather a mediocre Democratic state senator  answers  that "3a.m. call than  McCain.

Robert Powell said

"But Obama's BEST qualification is the self-evident leadership and managerial expertise that allowed him to assemble one of the most disciplined and effective campaign organizations in living memory."

You have a short memory. The Bush's  campaigns were really good.

- jacobt1

August 30, 2008 at 11:44pm

I meant

I'm sure you would rather  Obama  answers  that "3a.m. call than  McCain.

- jacobt1

August 31, 2008 at 12:37am

RP: I totally agree.

The rest: I beg of you all not to allow Jacob to hijack the discussion. All he does is copy-paste-editwithgrammaticalmistakes (new verb coined entirely in his honour).  Nothing he ever says is different from anything he has ever said, which has been simply incoherent and incomprehensible, if not reprehsensible.  

- icarusr

August 31, 2008 at 1:12am

Well, SOMEBODY else out there may think Bush ran good campaigns. Actually, Gore and Kerry ran two of the worst campaigns ever perpetrated on the voting public, right down there with George McGovern and Walter Mondale. Then Bush compounded the problem by attempting to run the war in Iraq as if it were the same campaign.

- Robert Powell

August 31, 2008 at 3:39am

Presidential candidates are chosen by the voters, in primaries and caucuses, through a long (27 or some such debates!) vetting process.  Some 19 million or so people chose Obama as a superior choice to the almost as many who preferred Clinton, most of whom, the pyrotechnics of a small number of PUMAs and the like notwithstanding, would consider Obama an acceptable choice.  A similar math justifies McCain on the Republican ticket.  Like them or not - the presidential candidates represent the judgment of those people in the country who care enough to vote.  That's democracy.

The vice-presidential candidates represent, overwhelmingly, the judgment of the presidential candidates.  Whatever you think about Sarah Palin as a potential VP, or president, reflects less on her, politically, than on John McCain's judgment.  If you think she's the best the Republican party has to offer as backup president, then you respect McCain's judgment; if, like me, that thought is the best laugh you've had all month, you know that McCain's judgment - on the importance of the VP, and on qualifications for high office - is very poor indeed, and you wonder in what other areas his judgment is this faulty.

The one thing I have learned about Palin from this is that she lacks the maturity and judgment to understand that she's out of her element.  8 - 12 years from now, with an Alaska governor term behind her, and a seat in the US Senate, she might well be a strong Republican candidate for VP or president.  She'd certainly have a compelling story, if she pulled it off.  But plucked not by dint of her own work or national appeal (which organization and appeal, again, did elevate Obama, whether one thinks he's qualified or not), but as side show to McCain's campaign, she is jeopardizing all that potential.  If McCain loses, after a campaign that shows her to be unprepared, she may well end up a political punch line.  If she stumbles badly during the campaign, then McCain win or McCain lose, Palin may be the new Quayle.  

I think it speaks enormously, and badly, to her judgment that she didn't turn McCain down, and build her story for another decade.  She certainly had the time.

- sdemuth

August 31, 2008 at 10:23am

sdemuth,

Did you vote for Kerry?

Did  you think Edwards was  the best the Democratic  party had to offer as backup president?

- jacobt1

August 31, 2008 at 10:56am

"The one thing I have learned about Obama from this is that he  lacks the maturity and judgment to understand that he's out of her element.  8 - 12 years from now, with an IL governor term behind her, and a seat in the US Senate, he  might well be a strong Democratic candidate for VP or president. Instead he decided to get nomination with uncritical support of African-Americans.

- jacobt1

August 31, 2008 at 11:00am

jacobtl writes "Instead he decided to get nomination with uncritical support of African-Americans."

So that's what bothers you!  We should have known.

- ironyroad

August 31, 2008 at 12:33pm

ironyroad,

I don't care about your smear. It's not going to work. Not this time.

- jacobt1

August 31, 2008 at 12:44pm

jacobtl: I did vote for Kerry, but the Edwards pick didn't necessarily improve my opinion of Kerry as a candidate.  It didn't, however, reduce my respect for Kerry to the degree that Palin does my respect for McCain.

As for your childish rewording of my comment about Palin to be about Obama - you miss or willfully ignore my point.  Obama, whether YOU think he's qualified or not, has passed the critical test in a democracy - he's convince a large fraction of the electorate that they would be pleased to have the man in office.  Ditto McCain.  If either of these two are a bad choice for president, they are at least the country's choice; Palin represents McCain's choice almost entirely.  I don't think she's qualified, but that's not what is most important to me, it's what choosing her says about McCain that increases my already deep skepticism of the man.

Finally, Obama's support amongst African Americans was hardly uncritical.  He did not enjoy their automatic and unexamined support in any poll until well into the race.  No doubt African Americans eventually supported him at some level out of identity politics in the primary.  I may wish it weren't that way, but I understand why it is so, just as I understand why so many Democratic women cast their vote or caucused for Clinton.  But he is not an  unnatural candidate for them to support in the primary, and certainly not in the general, where black support runs strongly to the Democrats generally anyway.

- sdemuth

August 31, 2008 at 1:23pm

jacob -- I hate to tell you this, but taking something a poster wrote (presumably in full compos mentis) and showing up its utter idiocy by way of an arch comment is not "smearing."

All I was doing was expressing a note of surprise that you would think, for example, that Obama won the Iowa caucuses because he pulled in the "uncritical support of African-Americans."

But if you don't think that, and in fact think something else, perhaps you'd like to clarify what you mean.

- ironyroad

August 31, 2008 at 1:57pm

sdemuth said:

" did vote for Kerry, but the Edwards pick didn't necessarily improve my opinion of Kerry as a candidate.  It didn't, however, reduce my respect for Kerry to the degree that Palin does my respect for McCain."

Why?

McCain made the best possible choice, the only choice. Looking back it was so obvious choice. McCain is real genius Any governor would lose to Biden in Geography Bee competition. So why choose some boring guy who would lose Geography Bee competition anyway? On another hand, if McCain picked a republican version of Biden, such as Lugar he would lose in landslide.

ironyroad,

IIt's obvious that without support of 90% African-Americans he would not win.

It's also obvious that very few people didn't vote for Obama because he is Black. Most of Edwards supporters ended up voting for Obama.

Robert Powell,

Well, SOMEBODY else out there may think Obama ran good campaigns. Actually,Clinton ran two of the worst campaigns ever perpetrated on the voting public, right down there with George McGovern and Walter Mondale. Obama will  compoun the problem by attempting to run the country  as if it were the same campaign.

,

- jacobt1

August 31, 2008 at 3:49pm

"It's obvious that without support of 90% African-Americans he would not win."

Hm.  That's not what you asserted before, jacob.  What you asserted earlier was that Obama netted "uncritical" black support -- whatever that is (I mean as opposed to the "critical" GOP hordes what voted Bush in twice).  That's another issue, however.

What I want to know right now is why, in your opinion, Obama did so well in the primaries in states with minimal Afro-Am populations, for example in MN or CO.  That is, in states in which, even if every last black person had voted for Clinton, it would have made little difference to the result.  If you have an explanation for how, say, Iowa fits in with your theory, I'd like to hear it.  If you don't, I'll just conclude that you say the first darned thing that comes into your head, no matter how little sense it makes.

- ironyroad

August 31, 2008 at 4:32pm

" If you have an explanation for how, say, Iowa fits in with your theory, I'd like to hear it"

Let me remind you that in Iowa  there were no primaries. Left wing activists  and student from IL put him on top there in caucuses. Obama had usual Bradley  Hart demographics. He got the usual  % of votes from such demographics.  However Blacks never voted for such candidates. This year Obama got Bradley  votes + Black votes. It gave him 50% of the all votes.

- jacobt1

August 31, 2008 at 5:10pm

Guess what, I know Iowa is a caucus state.  That wasn't your point, as far as I can tell (you keep switching it).  Your point was that Obama's plan was to net 90% or whatever of "uncritical" black votes.  My point is that your point is meaningless in respect of a whole slew of states (including for example Montana, which held an actual primary) where he would have won if every single black person in that state had voted for somebody else!

- ironyroad

August 31, 2008 at 6:13pm

"Your point was that Obama's plan was to net 90% or whatever of "uncritical" black votes. "

Yes this was his plan. He actually said this commenting on the intitial polling that didn't show yet 90% support of Black votes.

- jacobt1

August 31, 2008 at 6:32pm

Ok, very slowly, once again:

How do you explain his primary victories in states with little or no African-American votes -- that is, in states in which even if 100% of blacks had voted for another candidate, Obama would still have won?

- ironyroad

August 31, 2008 at 7:02pm

Obama got Eugene McCarthy,  Bradley demographics

- jacobt1

August 31, 2008 at 11:00pm

Whatever.

I now assert, after three attempts to get you to explain what you mean, that you are simply a kind of clueless blowhard and say the first thing that occurs to you, without thinking.

If Obama wins primaries (not just caucuses) in states where the African-American vote is negligable, as he has done, then your assertion that he was basing his plan for victory on capturing the black vote is nonsense.

Needless to say, he wants the black vote massively, but it didn't win him the nomination and it won't win him the election.

Uncritical or not.

- ironyroad

August 31, 2008 at 11:55pm

Let me repeat,

His marketing strategy was capturing the black vote  in addition to Bradley/ Hart demographics.

Blacks would not vote for white politician with Obama marketing message. They never did.

- jacobt1

September 1, 2008 at 1:35am

So, jacob, we finally get there.  To put it in plain English, Obama's strategy was to win in states where the black vote is negligible and to win also in states where the black vote counts.  That sort of sums it up, right?

Such evil genius!  

But if he's that smart, the guy has a shot at being president.

- ironyroad

September 1, 2008 at 12:08pm

"McCain made the best possible choice, the only choice. Looking back it was so obvious choice. McCain is real genius Any governor would lose to Biden in Geography Bee competition. So why choose some boring guy who would lose Geography Bee competition anyway? On another hand, if McCain picked a republican version of Biden, such as Lugar he would lose in landslide."

It's pretty amazing to see the transformation from being "dismayed" with the Palin pick to calling it "genius" and the "obvious" choice in the course of merely 2 days.  

What makes you think McCain would have lost in a landslide with a Lugar-type pick?  You've spent months saying that Obama would lose to McCain; I didn't realize that that was all predicated on McCain making an unexpected VP choice.

- AlanSP

September 1, 2008 at 4:28pm

There's something strange about this afternoon's CBS/ New York Times poll , which has the race

- Anonymous

September 4, 2008 at 8:28pm