The New Republic

Pious Christians (Jews, Muslims, etc.) may deserve the cynicism, but does this woman? I don't know. Perhaps she meant that, whatever may happen to her in this life, God's grace will bless her in the next. Or, to express your cynicism, maybe she did mean that God would spare her because she is a pious Christian and would His judgment on others who deserve it.

- rayward

April 3, 2012 at 7:25pm

ray, I am going with the cynical view. If she said it was in God's hands and she would accept her fate that I could understand, but the notion that Jesus is going to be her shield against bullets is whackjob. During the Boxer rebellion in China they became so fervent that they believed they would be impervious to bullets and we all know how that turned out.

- blackton

April 3, 2012 at 7:41pm

There's an old joke about a guy stranded on the top of his home in a roof high flood. A neighbor comes to rescue in a canoe, but the man refuses saying that "God will provide for me." A policeboat arrives and the man declines for the same reason. A helicopter. Same thing. Finally, the man slips off the roof into the water, and looks to the heavens and asks why he is being forsaken. God yells back, "I sent a canoe, a powerboat, and a helicopter. What else did you want?"

- Nusholtz

April 3, 2012 at 8:09pm

"This isn't just inane--it's absurdly solipsistic and even creepy. It's also the kind of thing that one can get away with saying most of the time. No doubt the families of the seven dead Californians feel similarly blessed." Give this girl a break. Her immediate reaction was a falling back on customary assumptions. She will still have to live with this for the rest of her life. I have known many pious Jews who also took a similar view point when faced with mortal danger . Some go beyond their original reactions others can't think their way out of their own psyche. It takes all kinds to make a world.

- arnon1

April 3, 2012 at 8:28pm

I was a total brain donor at her age too - maybe I didn't use religion, but so what? She's Christian and this is what she knows. It strikes as really mean that you'd pick on her for this Isaac. Most young people in her spot (traumatized by having classmates lined up and executed at school one day) would try and handle the abject shock and terror by perhaps saying something childlike and self protective. Give the kid a break already.

- WandreyCer

April 3, 2012 at 8:32pm

I totally agree with you, W.

- liberalref

April 3, 2012 at 8:40pm

I don't believe that I would be the source of mature wisdom with correct syntax if I'd been confronted with a demand for a quote after such an event either. I might say something like: whoa -- "this f*****g dude was f*****g mowing people f*****g down!"

- ironyroad

April 3, 2012 at 9:09pm

You know what? I mostly agree with Isaac. It's an evangelical Christian school. Isaac didn't mention this, but the article did and it's important to note. That means that she almost certainly knows that some (and probably most) of the people killed were just as Christian as she is. That said, the proper thing to do is not to be the one to provide this quote to the national paper of record. Which, of course, is why the journalist interviewed enough people to fish out that quote. Kid definitely hasn't read Job recently.

- chaitless

April 3, 2012 at 10:14pm

chaitless "You know what? I mostly agree with Isaac. It's an evangelical Christian school." So chait-less those Christians got what they deserved, is that it? How did you react to the shooting in Toulouse of children in the Jewish school? Did they too get what they deserved. You are a pitiless bastard.

- arnon1

April 3, 2012 at 11:19pm

Difficult to understand the argument going on here. Although I doubt I would be effective in a similar situation, I try to react in a way that would save lives the most effectively. As far as the statement “I’m a Christian, and I believe God protects me” my best guess is that the speaker means that even if she dies, her self (soul) will continue to exist and will be treated appropriately by God. Whatever the belief label, I go by how people act. There are good and bad Christians, Muslims, atheists, and so on. Whatever group you fall into as far as religious belief, behave yourself and pay attention the the reality you are in right now. I suspect the afterlife will take care of itself.

- skahn

April 4, 2012 at 12:14am

Why is it difficult to understand? It's just that she's a kid even if she's 19 or whatever. She's trying to process a horrendous experience.

- ironyroad

April 4, 2012 at 12:26am

ironyroad "Why is it difficult to understand? It's just that she's a kid even if she's 19 or whatever. She's trying to process a horrendous experience." You got it.

- arnon1

April 4, 2012 at 12:33am

Obviously not, arnon. It's a tragedy and I'd rather not imagine those who would wish such evils upon people, much less those who are quick to suspect that weird strain of heartlessness in their fellow neighbour. That said, the point made here is the macabre one of theodicy. It's the reason why I suggested "Job". What are we to make of the cases where evil visits near unto us, and what of an evil so apparently arbitrary that it cuts down the lives of some God-fearing Christians and scars others with the lifelong fear of what could have been? A plain answer that God protected me because of my exceeding zeal not only won't pass muster, it is actively atrocious to the memory of those who believed and yet died. Now, the article was rather short and probably did not do justice to the reporter's interaction with a visibly shaken survivor, but it is important that the newspaper editor think twice before publishing a quote so permanent and damning when taken out of context and doubly important that readers, be they religious or not, reflect upon both the problem of evil and the nature of grace before affirming their own righteousness or scornfulness.

- chaitless

April 4, 2012 at 12:45am

That's why Christians, especially here in God's chosen nation, live forever. There's probably a special place in hell for Creflo Dollar and the others who promulgate the prosperity gospel fraud, of which this is only one logical instantiation.

- miceelf

April 4, 2012 at 6:03am

I agree with Chaitless, especially because I so love the word "theodicy." There is a place in Heaven for "oxymoron" and "theodicy." They are angels who sit at God's feet.

- skahn

April 4, 2012 at 8:41am

I honestly don't think we have enough information to come to a judgment about the young woman's intentions either way. Her statement could be read as self-absorbed--and it could be read as a religious person's struggle to cope with an existential threat. skahn is right to say that good and bad people exist in all religious and non-religious backgrounds. I'm a liberal--and I think Santorum's suggestion that the Obama Administration has begun a war on religion is preposterous--but I've also seen liberals confront religions with a knee-jerk derision that I don't understand. It's possible to be spiritual and to also honor empiricism or rationalism. The Ancient Muslim world preserved many of our records of western civilization, gave us our number system, and contributed to the maths and sciences in countless ways. And many of the values that liberals hold dear--such as caring for the poor and the marginalized--are also central Judeo-Christian values. Not to get into a massive philosophical debate, but what should this young woman have said--if she were purely scientific and non-religious? "Yeah, I heard the girls screaming over there, when they were getting shot. And I was so glad that I was in another building, so I didn't have to get shot, too. You see, I believe that all people become worm food after they die, and that there's no God or heaven for anyone. And it's ridiculous that the survivors or their families would try to comfort themselves with such inane and absurd fantasies. So yeah, it was nice that I didn't get shot."

- maxhencke

April 4, 2012 at 9:32am

I don't think it's any more inane than what much of what comes out of people's mouths when they are stressed, and I certainly wouldn't expect profundity under the circumstances. But it's very sad. God is not going to protect this woman, nor the world in which she will live. She's going to need to be responsible for her own future, and people like her are jointly going to have to take responsibility for a planet full of people and other life. The universe, God, or anything else cosmic, doesn't give a rat's ass whether she lives or dies, or the world thrives or declines. Take it as a warning from the chaos young lady - it's time at your age to leave your childish superstitions behind, get off your comfortable mental ass, and start trying to change things. But I'd agree that this was not the moment she was probably going to articulate that.

- IowaBeauty

April 4, 2012 at 9:49am

Given that almost everyone in this country claims to be a Christian -- somewhere around 80% - how is it that so many people die everyday? Perhaps the young lady has not asked that question - must be some education she is getting. Neil

- purcellneil@aol.com

April 4, 2012 at 10:04am

Great comments, max and Iowa.

- liberalref

April 4, 2012 at 10:14am

I chalk up the young woman's comment to "Shit People Say After They Have Experienced A Mass Shooting". I think there's a Tumblr out there with similar comments from Iraq, Afghanistan and other such places.

- wildboy

April 4, 2012 at 10:29am

Better question Neil: Since so many people claim to be Christian, and believe in the afterlife and eternal reward, why are they so terrified of dying? "God protects me". From what does God protect you? The pearly gates? Meeting Jesus? Take the Schiavo case. The position of Christians was that lying in a vegative state for 14 years, processing food into waste, and getting turned occasionally for bed sores was much better for her than being allowed to go to her Heavenly reward.

- dubyadoubte

April 4, 2012 at 12:43pm

Agree with skahn - maybe Ms Lee is more of a profound, mystical Christian than appears to be the case at first blush. Maybe she didn't mean merely that her belief in Jesus would literally protect her from bullets - but that, whether struck by bullets or not, her soul would be protected. A statement of faith, in other words, of the fundamental rightness of the universe, irrespective of whatever physical harm should come to her personally. I'm certainly no Christian myself, but I think there are those of that faith who have such feelings about the ultimate existential questions.

- Haole45

April 4, 2012 at 12:45pm

Personally, I don't have any problem with the young lady or what she said, but let's look at some possible correlatives. *****“I’m a Christian, and I believe God protects me.” This isn't just inane--it's absurdly solipsistic and even creepy. It's also the kind of thing that one can get away with saying most of the time. ***** What might be some similar "inane" utterances are examples of "the kind of thing that one can get away with saying most of the time"? -"I'm from Texas; if you kill someone here, we'll kill you back." -"Eye for an eye." -"Allahu akbar." (We've heard it said before a meal, when a Muslim's national team scores a goal in a soccer match, after an IED detonates, whatever.) -"Our rights come to us from God." (Rick Santorum enjoys spewing this particular inanity.) Just some possible equivalencies off the top of my head. All these statements are acceptable, perhaps even valuable on some level to the advancement of certain helpful ideals, and all are of course protected under the right to free speech. However, all those statements are inane, retrograde examples of how human beings limit their own independent faculties for personal brilliance. They indicate a sad subservience to groupthink, or worse, to an Almighty Lord. Mr. Chotiner isn't trying to suppress anyone's speech or belief system here. He seems to agree with me that it's ridiculous that absurd statements like this are 99.9% unchallenged, that they are reported as valid crime scene analysis & fodder while, say, a subsequent [and obviously valid, applicable] discussion about, for example gun control is denounced & politicized as taking advantage of a tragedy to remove American rights. The absurdity, the intrinsic stupidity of the statement, "I’m a Christian, and I believe God protects me," is so ingrained into the idea of accepted, normal civil discourse that anyone who takes exception to it is likely to be branded a flaming, militant atheist (with all the attendant suggestions of anti-Americanness that goes with such a label). And the only way to change that silly mentality is to uproot the very notion that the young lady's statement is not inane.

- Konstantin

April 4, 2012 at 1:04pm

It is hard for me to know what the teacher meant by her remark. Even odder that she said that to a journalist. Maybe it's my attention deficit disorder but I'm bewildered.

- Tgossard

April 4, 2012 at 1:33pm

It was at minimum a thoughtless remark, presuming she had any awareness that others at the school had not been so "protected" as she. It may well be reflective of some bad theology (at least from my mainline Presbyterian point of view, I'd say it definitely was, as I sit getting ready for theology class -- ha!). But given the situation, I have trouble it was uttered with any kind of malice, or even coherent thought, unlike the creepy solipsistic things folks like Santorum say.

- cspencef

April 4, 2012 at 2:05pm

I take the last bunch of comments as what we all go through, struggling with the mystery and apparent pointlessness and unfairness of life. I spent the day with a group of gentle, kind, cooperative evangelical Lutheran Christians, doing some of their endless good deeds. They talk endlessly about God's mercy and infinite love. When confronted with the usual madness of life, as in the case a few weeks ago, where a popular nine-year-old girl was killed when a tree fell on her family's car during a wind storm, they just say, "I don't understand," collect some money to help the family, and change the subject. I say nothing there. TNR is an escape valve so I don't offend the people I see in person every week. (I offend a few people at TNR, but I don't much give a shit about them.) I have known people in abusive romantic relationships. (Usually, the victim is female, but the pattern fits all combinations of hetero and homo relationships.) There is a fairly standard set of emotions and behaviours for victims. [I use male abuser/female victim as most typical here.] "I know he really loves me, even though he sometimes beats me. It must be my fault. If I just show how much I love him, and stop doing the things that upset him he will stop beating me. If you are a religious believer and offended, deal with it, or flame me or whatever. I am a human being. I suffer. [To be a human is to suffer, though some more than others.] God is infinitely loving. God is infinitely merciful. If I am suffering, it must somehow be my fault. [Original sin, etc.] If I pray enough. If I throw myself on Jesus' mercy, and confess I am a miserable sinner, blah, blah, blabbity blabbity blah ... God will show his Infinite Love for me. If not in this life, then in some imaginary future life. Blah blah blabbity blabbity blah. One, my life has gone pretty well. I am 68, healthy, comfortable, amiably married, friended, and familied. I don't look forward to dying, but any variety of "living forever" I can conceive of (except perhaps an endless heroin high] would be Hell indeed. "None there do embrace" works for me. That said. Religion is almost certainly nonsense as far as a description of the empirical universe. In general, for most of the population, religion is the most soothing and comforting alleviation and aesthetic humans have ever come up with for the existential dilemma. That there are so many different brands and flavors of religious belief indicates it's still a piss poor solution. Merry Christmas and a good night to all.

- skahn

April 4, 2012 at 11:50pm

Anaesthetic I meant to type. I need to go to sleep. Pleasant dreams, everyone.

- skahn

April 4, 2012 at 11:54pm