The New Republic

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-october-19-2011/indecision-2012---fear-and-pandering-in-las-vegas anyway, regardless of what happens to Perry, my sense is that Romney at minimum has lost his mantles of inevitability, and electability. as to the Perry finger-jabbing video? Next time, at least let us hear the provocation? I could not hear what the much younger man was saying, but sure looked like he was not going to give Perry a listen, and then the finger-point was used to push the young man away.

- K2K

October 20, 2011 at 4:14pm

Utter nonsense, K2K. I vividly recall Al Gore's move.

- liberalref

October 20, 2011 at 4:23pm

I didn't remember the Gore move either, until I found it at youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAUcyfKESts After watching it I do remember it, and I remember thinking it was really weird. It still looks really weird. It looks like he's trying to intimidate Bush, but doing it in a way that implies he doesn't have very good social IQ, which fed into the press storyline about Gore. It's too bad, I liked Gore, but that was a really bad move. I agree with you on Romney's move, though. I didn't think he came off looking like a bully, and I think he was able to get Perry to kind of lose his cool. But the plea to Anderson did look pretty weak. If he hadn't done that I think he played it all well. He had a friendly audience so they backed him up.

- tysonsahib

October 20, 2011 at 4:27pm

I also recall Gore's weird maneuver and the priceless look Bush gave him. It was striking and harmful to Gore. But the Romney-Perry exchange was a benefit for Romney. Romney won the argument, because Romney deftly wove Perry's tuition breaks for illegal immigrants into his response. And while Romney did look a little flappable, Perry looked a little unhinged. I agree with tyson though: the appeal to Anderson Cooper was weak--but that doesn't play into any larger media narrative about Romney, so it's hard seeing it have legs. And if Romney did look like a bully, Republicans would like that.

- polcereal

October 20, 2011 at 5:00pm

The young pup was gettin' feisty and speaking out of turn, and big daddy Mittens took control of the situation and put the dog in his place. Don't remember the Gore thing, but I did always think he was very socially awkward. Although, honestly I stopped paying attention when I saw who he would be running against in the general election.

- GSpinks

October 20, 2011 at 5:04pm

As an aside, that youtube clip is quite the demonstration of how significantly the presidency ages someone. Bush looked positively youthful in the debate compared to how he looked when he left office.

- aylwards

October 20, 2011 at 5:23pm

Rick Perry is a first-class jerk and Mitt Romney deflated him. The audience booed Perry more than once during the debate because of his boorishness.

- liberalref

October 20, 2011 at 5:27pm

Lazio's move in the debate with Clinton was stupid because it was as if he hadn't noticed that he was actually male. One guy invading another guy's space is one thing, a guy invading a woman's space makes quite a different impression. It looked like simple physical intimidation via size. But about Vegas -- did anyone see the moment when Perry starts calling Herman Cain "brother" in a "hey, a--hole!" sort of way when they were arguing about taxation? Nobody has mentioned that, and I was actually startled when I saw it on Jon Stewart.

- ironyroad

October 20, 2011 at 5:27pm

In a 1996 debate, Bill Clinton dominated the stage, bouncing around like the alpha gorilla according to Maureen Dowd, or words to that effect, so that at one point Dole shrank back and said "let me get out of your way here." Dowd certainly cemented my own perception that Clinton projected mastery in an effective way there (I remember thinking after that column that Dowd really did have some cultural insight, maybe because she told me what I wanted to hear). But maybe we all interpret these things in light of who won or is likely to win the electoral contest.

- adsprung

October 20, 2011 at 5:29pm

What, libref? The audience was already predisposed to Romney, based on his campaigning and electoral history there. It helps that Mormons comprise a significant portion of caucusing Republicans in Nevada. If Perry is a first-class jerk, then Romney must be a upper second-class (2:1) jerk based on his multiple displays of condescension. He knows what he is talking about, so he knows that he is lying when he says Romneycare is substantially different from Obamacare. Santorum pointed out that this is untrue and Romney tried to dissemble. A few debates ago, Perry pointed out that Romney removed mentions of Romneycare in newer versions of his book. Romney proceeded to lie. Perry displayed the same bemusement. If Romney really wants to take the high road, nearly lying or using patronizing gestures won't help his case. I mean, it's not as if Gore already had a public image as a flip-flopper who played loose with the truth.

- chaitless

October 20, 2011 at 6:41pm

As to Perry using the word "brother"? - Politico has a short piece about how Herman Cain said in one of today's interviews that he was not offended - apparently it is a church thing. Good points chaitless, and, I am still not sure if a few of the audience boos were not about Romney. Such a fascinating 3:51 segment. post-post-post analysis from: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/66488.html#ixzz1bMWyhGEw "Rick Perry's illegal immigrant attack persists" During Tuesday's Republican debate, Perry went for the jugular. | AP Photos By JIM VANDEHEI & MIKE ALLEN | 10/20/11 4:59 PM EDT "It’s hard to dispute that Rick Perry’s he-hired-an-illegal-immigrant attack on Mitt Romney was a cheap shot. It’s even harder to dispute that it worked beautifully. Put aside the fact that Perry’s broadside was recycled, and barely relevant to the debate. Just focus on the raw politics of it. The Perry campaign went into the debate well aware that it needed to accomplish a number of objectives, including rattling Romney, displaying toughness and turning the coverage away from scrutiny of Perry’s stumbling — sometimes bumbling — debate performances. Mission accomplished. ... Until the first segment of Tuesday’s debate, when CNN’s Anderson Cooper asked Perry a question about the rate of uninsured children in Texas. That’s when Perry did what Republicans expected him to do from Day One: He went for the jugular. In a moment his staff carefully studied and then choreographed in advance, Perry turned to Romney and pounded away. “You stood here in front of the American people and did not tell the truth that you had illegals working on your property,” Perry said during the heated back-and-forth with Romney. “The newspaper came to you, brought it to your attention. And you still, a year later, had those individuals working for you.” It was a high-risk move that, viewed through the lens of what Perry hoped to accomplish, worked. He finally looked like the Texas tough guy everyone expected to see in previous debates. Surely, many people found it off-putting. But he delivered the line without stammering or flubbing it, unlike past encounters. Romney, for the first time, lost his cool. More importantly, for the first time Romney said something on stage that plays right into the worst narratives about himself: that he will do or say anything to win. After saying he never employed an illegal immigrant — a claim he knew to be only technically true — he said, “I’m running for office, for Pete’s sake, I can’t have illegals,” Romney said on stage. So in one sentence he opened himself to charges of shading the truth and caring about employing an illegal alien not because it’s wrong but because it would hurt his campaign. And, finally, no one is talking about Perry’s uneven performance on stage. Instead, the media are reporting extensively on just the thing Perry’s campaign wanted them to be chattering about — the exchange over illegal immigrants. The morning after the debate, Obama adviser David Axelrod hit Romney over the comments, telling CBS’s “The Early Show” that it was an “unintentionally revealing moment” because it suggested Romney was worried about the illegal workers only because he’s running for office. ..." read the rest at: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/66488.html#ixzz1bMWyhGEw and, it forced Romney to suddenly fallin love with Iowa...

- K2K

October 20, 2011 at 7:17pm

K2K: ". . . apparently it is a church thing." Sure it is.

- ironyroad

October 20, 2011 at 7:26pm

It is amazing to me how such little things can change the course of history, like a molecular mutation in the genome that leads to intelligence (or a Supreme Court decision that put Bush in office). I remember in the debate between Reagan and Mondale after Mondale had correctly scored a point; Reagan dismissed it effectively by saying derisively "There ... you go again." Reagan said nothing else but it felt like Mondale was lying.

- Nusholtz

October 21, 2011 at 9:13am

"Apparently a church thing" hahah, no. Unless Perry has entered the Cistercians recently, it was an example of a jackass trying to sound hip. And then that jackass's communications director pulling him aside and giving him the spin and, hoipefully, whacking him upside the head. I remember the Gore walkup, it really was creepy. But I though Romney's hand on Perry's shoulder really was an effective technique for enhancing the you-are-an-imbicile point he was intending to drive home. And Libref is right, however the audience may have been predisposed to Romeny, it was clear to me they were specifically booing Perry's boorishness.

- Tristan

October 21, 2011 at 9:47am

Nush, nice comment

- Tristan

October 21, 2011 at 9:48am

Libref, Perry may have been boorish, but I feel sorry for him. Romney is SUCH an asshole. The condescending smile he bestows upon all and sundry, the false, indeed, falsetto, laughs he produces when someone attacks him ... I swear, if I were the subject of any of that, I might be tempted to deck him, and Perry in fact, I thought did a pretty good job of standing up to him. Perry may be stupid, mean, and corrupt, but he's not as much of a phony nothing as Romney.

- NR409654

October 21, 2011 at 10:05am

If Mitt makes it to the election, boy is he going to need that falsetto laugh! For example, when Obama keeps pointing out to him what a great model the Mass. health care reforms were and how Romney really, really should take credit for testing out what is becoming a successful nationwide application of the idea.

- ironyroad

October 21, 2011 at 1:32pm

I hadn't thought of that, Irony. Obama: Now I thought that Governor Romney had a great idea in MA, and directed my people to model the ACA after it. Bob Dole thought it was a good idea. So did Newt Gingrich and Richard Nixon. It's a centrist solution to a real problem. People in MA love it! Governor Romney, there are a lot of things you and I disagree on, but I commend you on your common sense solution in MA. Romney: Ha ha ha ha ha. Can I talk? Can I talk? Can I talk? Can I talk? Unsubstantiated accusation. Irrelevant comment about Obama's record. Unrelated platitude about liberty and freedom for the middle class. Time's up (whew!)

- NR409654

October 21, 2011 at 2:13pm

Mitt Romney is the front-runner (never mind Herman Cain's numbers, they will crash) so the partisans out here are gunning for him. I have not liked Romney one little bit, so I find it quite odd that I felt a twinge of sympathy for him, and that is because Rick Perry is a jackass. In a previous debate, Perry jabbed his finger at the elderly Ron Paul. Nice guy. Perry also turned his back when it came to the execution of man who was almost certainly innocent of a capital crime, Todd Cameron Willingham. I will take a political weather vane any day to the cretinous Perry. Some of you people have no taste.

- liberalref

October 21, 2011 at 2:23pm

Lib, when we're discussing which of the current dismal crop of Republican candidates is better, we're all beyond having any taste, including you ... :-)

- NR409654

October 21, 2011 at 2:34pm

Speak for yourself, NR.

- liberalref

October 21, 2011 at 3:41pm

Lighten up, lib ... unlike your comment, mine was a joke. The smiley at the end was intended to convey that.

- NR409654

October 21, 2011 at 3:59pm

Ah, people just don't learn out here, often enough, My comment was a joke too. I know, it's very dry humor but I just wrote about my penchant for dh the other day when yet another person missed that I was joking. I know you were joking because of the infra dig use of an emoticon. Geez. Can we have teplukhin2you and williamyard back? They were sharp and knew something.

- liberalref

October 21, 2011 at 7:48pm

Perhaps people miss that you are joking because of your occasional inability to correctly assess the surrounding tonal landscape, lib ref? Does it always have to be someone else's fault? Williamyard was exceptional in his ability to shift from humorous to serious and back in such a way that the reader could always swerve with him. I think that if you give it fair consideration, you'll see that there is nothing either internal to your remark, or in its relationship to NR409's comment, that would suggest dry humor. If you intended dry humor, it failed to cross the communicative bridge, and sounds instead rather testy. :( So, lighten up, indeed.

- ironyroad

October 21, 2011 at 8:21pm