The New Republic

I agree with Tim Noah about the implausibility of Cain bullshitting his way to running a successful pizza chain -- you have to know how to move product and maximize profits and you need to learn those things if you didn't grow up in the business. As for the question of, "Is it possible to bullshit your way through running a major trade association in Washington?", the answer is "Yes", so long as the association members are generally of like mind when it comes to what they want from the government and have a half-decent PR department and professional lobbyists -- each of whom could have been inherited from the previous administration. As for Texas and Rick Perry, I would defer all analysis of his shortcomings as a Presidential candidate to our resident Rick Perry expert, K2K.

- wildboy

November 15, 2011 at 11:28am

The image of Herman Cain above offers a wonderful opportunity for a caption competition.

- ironyroad

November 15, 2011 at 12:00pm

Good comment, wild.

- liberalref

November 15, 2011 at 12:06pm

Thank you wildboy. Tim Noah has a good post, except for his gratuitous cheap shot about Gov. Perry. First, one observation is the major differences between Perry and Cain is that Cain's campaign perfects the art of the serial excuse, while Perry takes every punch and comes back smiling. I admire his resiliency, and openness to admitting his mistakes. I went to watch Noah's link, and Perry was doing just fine until he turned to look at Ron Paul, at about 1:45 in this clip. I still maintain that any mortal would have turned to stone at the sight of Ron Paul's five-fingered-hand and facial expression of a gargoyle. Newsweek/DailyBeast confirmed my analysis two days later, that it was like a star athlete's "choke": "...But in the case of the CNBC debate, it wasn’t just anxiety that led to Perry’s “oops” moment, says Dr. Nicole Detling Miller, a visiting professor of sports psychology at University of Utah. When an athlete chokes during a big game, there’s usually a single moment of distraction that flips a mental switch, reducing even the most talented All Star to the skill level of a Little League benchwarmer. After analyzing the now-viral debate clip, Miller says that switch was apparently flipped for Perry the moment he looked at Ron Paul, who was standing next to him on stage. “His focus was disrupted and some emotion was conjured up, and that emotion took the place of whatever he was trying to process in his brain,” Miller said. “Maybe it was a look on Ron Paul’s face, or maybe it was just the sight of Ron Paul in general. I don’t know.” ..." http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/11/12/rick-perry-s-debate-performance-anxiety-why-he-chokes.html Herman Cain's five minutes in Milwaukee on Libya? I saw that yesterday at The Atlantic, so I shall copy my comment as USNK2 in disqus, here: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/11/marvel-at-how-little-herman-cain-has-learned-about-libya/248474/ "Libya? At the time, I was wrestling, as K2K, in comment threads at The New Republic, with Obama's dilemma. 1) obvious clarity that Qaddhafi's military at the gates of Benghazi was certainly a perfect example of why the Responsibility to Protect (R2P) doctrine was adopted by the United Nations after the 1998 (?) Hutu genocide in Rwanda, even though when to consider R2P is a slippery slope, e.g. Hamas in Gaza? Assad in Syria? 2) America's role in supporting our NATO allies when they are leading on calling for NATO military intervention, i.e., whether America always has to lead NATO. On this point, I agreed with Obama - it was one time he DID stand with our allies, France and UK in the lead, because of the direct impact on southern Europe, and the fragility of Tunisia and Egypt at the time. 3) timing between Obama's public call for Qaddhafi to go and then not doing anything. That was a very bad decision that emboldened Qaddhafi, who did wait at least 48 hours to see what Obama would DO, before renewing his military onslaught of civilians. Guess I am far more qualified to run for President than Herman Cain, who has yet to learn or think about these two-three key points, not that much of the msm delved into these two-three points at the time. one more "choke" moment for Cain. BTW, I continue to want to know what happened to the 40,000 Berbers of Zwara after March 15, 2011, the approximate day that Qaddhafi laid siege to Zwara by cutting off water and electricity. Thanks to The Atlantic for posting the primary source from the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel. My subscription renewal check will now go out in the snailmail. Very stimulating. Oh, I almost forgot to add that I continue to think Egypt's military should now go in and occupy Libya's eastern oil fields and water infrastructure to 1) create jobs for a million Egyptians, 2) use Libya's oil revenue to avert mass food riots in Egypt , and 3) assure everyone that Egypt, well, best to stop there... " "

- K2K

November 15, 2011 at 12:09pm

While I don't want to ruin the fun of the serious question trying not to ruin the fun, the question has to be rhetorical, right? Can leaders get by on bluster and bullshit alone? Any experience of more than a week with leaders of any kind should be sufficient to make clear that the answer is obviously yes, at least for a while. From that restaurant manager we've all encountered who doesn't understand that pissing off customers is bad for business to the guys who rode Enron right into the ground, from the cast of Jersey Shore to the President whose nuanced policy analysis of Iran was, "They're assholes," the world is full of idiots who've accumulated credentials and jobs and prestige (or all three) through bluster and bullshit alone. Hell, spend three minutes listening to Bachmann (the tax lawyer!) talk about taxes; does anyone here think those positions were arrived at through doing her homework? Or even cracking a newspaper?

- janus

November 15, 2011 at 12:53pm

I was wondering as well, how he rose to be the CEO of a major sized company. The man seems dumber than a post. Is he really smart (in things other than foreign policy, I mean), but doesn't think he needs to prove it, so doesn't give a shit about how he answers questions?

- NR409654

November 15, 2011 at 12:54pm

From what I have heard about Cain's tenure at Godfather's Pizza, the story of its return to profitability seems to be the typical conservative prescription for everything: he fired every employee and closed down every location that wasn't already profitable. In the business world this may count as genius, but it's not particularly innovative "make the pie higher" management.

- austinexpat

November 15, 2011 at 12:57pm

That was painful, the man is clearly not qualified to be President. Imagine him up against Barack Obama in a debate (please, oh please). Is Cain saying that the President didn't have all the information on the Libya oppostion that the intelligence community had?. "I don't know if that was or what not assessed" What, does Cain think that the President wasn't cleared for it? Didn't ask who made up the opposition? It's like Alan West (R-FL) who claimed that he had held a higher security clearance than President Obama. Dude, the President owns the security classification system.

- dubyadoubte

November 15, 2011 at 1:19pm

As you say, austin: the reason why businessmen (or women) are not automatically suited for political leadership is that a country isn't a business. A nation is not a profit-making entity per se and will not necessarily respond to classic commercial tools such as downsizing. You can't get rid of a bunch of citizens in the hope that the remainder will get scared and push up the production figures so as to get you through the lean times. The question of whether certain types of leadership experience are good, bad, or neutral for politics is, however, a broadly open one. The military, academia, transport logistics, family life, medicine etc all have different things to offer that shape particular approaches to problems of authority and decision-making.

- ironyroad

November 15, 2011 at 1:23pm

<> If you really think that the answer to these questions is in doubt, then you need to suspend your journalistic career for a year or two and go out in the real world. Hell yes, it's possible. It's routine.

- gwcross

November 15, 2011 at 1:28pm

Tim, I assume you've seen Margin Call, a crackerjack of a film about nincompoops running an investment company. Yes it's a film, but people in the know (not me of course) say it's about as true to life as it gets. Dan

- dbuck1

November 15, 2011 at 1:43pm

The analogy to the Woody Allen surgery scene is apt in particular reference to the line preceding the cited scene: "We're two big doctors; we're very big doctors; we're not imposters." When people are "into politics" they know about political issues. I think the general concensus is that Herman Cain is not into politics. He is either hawking a radio show, a t.V show or a book. Not that they are mutually exclusive (Gingrich sells books too, as does Palin a T.V. show but both have held political office). But Cain is closest to being an imposter.

- Nusholtz

November 15, 2011 at 2:23pm

Yes yes and yes. Simply hire great lawyers & assistants, who often come surprisingly cheap. Don't forget a non-disclosure clause. Works for any field (but *especially* a crappy food franchise)!

- Wonderland

November 15, 2011 at 2:30pm

Cain and Perry are perfect examples of the GOP's successful campaign to be a 'big tent' party. Even clowns are part of the circus.

- singlspeed

November 15, 2011 at 5:04pm

"You can't get rid of a bunch of citizens in the hope that the remainder will get scared and push up the production figures so as to get you through the lean times." Actually you can. Evidence: Stalin-era purges of the 1930s and Mao's Cultural Revolution. Oh, and don't forget the Khmer Rouge.

- AaronW

November 15, 2011 at 5:24pm

Dan, Nice to hear from you. I haven't seen "Margin Call" but I keep hearing good things about it, so clearly I should. Tim gwcross, Obviously I know there's gross incompetence by people in power all over the place. But a complete failure to do any homework whatsoever? Maybe I'm naive, but that still shocks me.

- Timothy Noah

November 15, 2011 at 5:39pm

Interesting book collection Herman has. He indeed probably has a passing or even extensive familiarity with most of them (I'll grant him the benefit of the doubt). What's unusual is that most of them look pretty old, and many of them really old. It's like he was something of an intellectual in his math major days but hasn't really done much current affairs/history reading in recent years.

- gmck1948

November 15, 2011 at 5:47pm

Whoops...I guess the Herman Cain interview was actually done not at home but at the offices of the Milwaukee Sentinel-Journal. Still, it's a pretty weird-looking collection.

- gmck1948

November 15, 2011 at 6:08pm

I sort of felt a little bad for poor Mr. Cain on the Uzbekistan question---I mean, really, aside from "Afghan" and "Pak" can anybody outside the Kennedy School of Government keep all those damned "-stan" countries straight? Tajikistan? Kyrgyzstan? What do they produce or export, anyway, besides consonants? But then I saw a clip from his appearance with Gingrich (in Utah, I think) where he was asked about defined benefit pension plans and he was equally flummoxed, literally blank until he said "Newt, why don't you go first on that one?" A much-heralded CEO can't answer a question about defined benefit plans? In my line of work I've worked with several CEOs of various sized companies and based on my experience they fall into two distinct categories; whip-smart masters of every detail of the business (usually founder CEOs unsurprisingly) and at the other end of the spectrum board of directors charming regurgitators of pure cliche and pablum who go on at length about nonsense like "synergy", "vision", "hockey stick growth planning", etc. but are actually fairly ignorant of how the company they lead operates. Mr. Cain I am now convinced falls into the latter category. Doubtless absolutely spectacular at the Club, on the golf course, at the dinners and with the board but an empty vessel whose almost astonishing absence of knowledge is now becoming a national joke.

- SteveJudd

November 15, 2011 at 11:49pm

"You can't get rid of a bunch of citizens in the hope that the remainder will get scared and push up the production figures so as to get you through the lean times."
AaronW sort of beat me to it. In retrospect, Irony, that seems eerily consonant with what the Republicans have been campaigning about: screw the "parasites" and thin the herd.

- GSpinks

November 16, 2011 at 4:34pm

cold thread that just made the top 5 comments? Today's Gallup Poll still has Cain 3rd, in double-digits, proving one can never underestimate the ignorance of the electorate, which I think is why the Founders created the Electoral College...Interesting that today is Newt Gingrich's videotaped interview with the NH U-L editorial board. http://www.unionleader.com/article/20111121/OPINION01/711219997 "Recording Cain: What’s he afraid of? Published Nov 21, 2011 at 3:00 am (Updated Nov 20, 2011) Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain does loads of media events. His entire campaign is based upon media coverage. Yet last week he decided to eliminate one type of coverage from the rest of his campaign. He would no longer allow video cameras to roll during long-form newspaper interviews. How strange. Cain continues to do television and radio. He’s not afraid of being recorded. He just doesn’t want to be recorded while newspaper journalists are interviewing him. We are hardly offended by that decision, as some might think. On the contrary, we’ll take it as a compliment. Cain’s decision was made after a video showed him fumbling an answer about Libya during a newspaper editorial board interview in Milwaukee — and right before he was to do an interview with this newspaper, which we wanted C-SPAN to record and broadcast. That wasn’t going to happen, a Cain campaign spokesman said, because “videos are typically used for television and it’s a newspaper. We decided we didn’t want to do the video.” Videos these days are used by everyone, even random people on the street who record candidates with their cell phones. The difference between television and newspaper interviews is not that cameras are present, but that newspaper interviews tend to be longer and more in depth. The Cain campaign knows this. It seems that Cain is fine with everyone seeing him give short, prepared answers, but not with everyone seeing him try to answer questions in which he has more than 30 or 60 seconds to respond. He would do well to rethink that decision, for it gives the impression that he’s got something to hide."

- K2K

November 21, 2011 at 11:58am