CRITICS AUGUST 23, 2010
-
Read Later
READ LATERAvailable only to subscribers. SUBSCRIBE TODAY
-
Listen
ARTICLE AUDIO
- Font Size
Jonathan Chait has responded to my post about our lack of knowledge about the practical effects of stimulus spending. He seems to be taking on opinions that aren’t mine.
Chait begins his reply by claiming that I “oppose any stimulus at all.” This is a position which I did not present in the post, and which I do not hold. In fact, I have consistently advocated stimulus in the face of the current crisis, and generally in venues that are not as hospitable to this idea as The New Republic.
I was arguing in my post that we should approach stimulus with appropriate humility about our knowledge, not that we should never execute such a policy. That’s why the sentence in my post that immediately follows those Chait excerpted, is: “What I am trying to describe here is not a policy per se, but an attitude of epistemic humility.”
Chait then moves on to criticize the reasoning behind my imagined position against any stimulus spending.
His first argument is that he was only saying we can’t measure stimulus precisely, but that we still know enough to act with confidence:
First, and more importantly, I was arguing that the precise effect of the stimulus can't be measured. That doesn't mean we have no idea whether it worked. There is a general, though not unanimous, consensus within the economic field that increasing spending or reducing taxes temporarily increases economic growth. Basically, we do know the rules -- increasing the deficit in order to pave some roads and cut taxes for middle-income people will increase the size of the economy; the primary debate is just how much.
Now, it's true that the conservative movement has invested a great deal of time into throwing cold water on this basic consensus. I think this campaign should be viewed as largely political.
Chait correctly identifies this as the most important of his arguments, so I’ll spend the most time replying to it. The problems with this criticism are that: (1) it is false, (2) it is a straw man, and (3) by far most important, it doesn’t address my point.
1. It is false.
Chait is trying to define the position that stimulus will not increase output as intellectually illegitimate. (Though, again, this is not a claim that I have made.)
It is certainly true that a large majority of professional economists accept the view that “increasing spending or reducing taxes temporarily increases economic growth”—but that is very far from claiming that disputing it is largely a political campaign. Robert Barro, Professor of Economics at Harvard, John Cochrane, Professor of Finance at the University of Chicago, and Casey Mulligan, Professor of Economics at the University of Chicago, have each separately argued that it is somewhere between plausible and likely that the multiplier for stimulus spending under relevant conditions is indistinguishable from zero (i.e., that stimulative spending will not materially increase economic output). According to surveys of professional economists reported by Greg Mankiw, about 10 percent of economists do not agree with the statement that “Fiscal policy (e.g., tax cut and/or government expenditure increase) has a significant stimulative impact on a less than fully employed economy.” Both the Wall Street Journal and the Financial Times have run opinion columns expressing the view that a multiplier of zero is a plausible to likely theory.
I have not been afraid to call out influential conservative activists when I believe they are engaging in crank refusal to accept a scientific finding. But in a genuinely scientific field which has accepted a predictive rule as valid to the point that there is a true consensus—such that the only reason for refusal to accept it is crankery or, in Chait’s terms, “politics”—you don’t usually see: several full professors at the top two departments in the subject, when speaking directly in their area of research expertise, challenge it; 10 percent of all practitioners in the field refuse to accept it; and the two leading global general circulation publications in field running op-eds questioning it.
2. It is a straw man
If the U.S. government were to borrow and spend $1 trillion with the sole result of increasing U.S. GDP in Q4 2010 by $1, it would have “temporarily increased economic growth”—but no sane person would advocate such a policy. It would not be, in either the common-sense meaning of words, or in the terms of my post, a stimulus policy that “worked.” The relevant policy question is whether stimulus spending “temporarily increases economic growth” enough to make such a policy rationally advisable . Economists are all over the place on their estimates for impact of stimulus policy across the range that is relevant to the policy decision.
A great many leading economists may accept the proposition that enough stimulus spending will probably cause at least some increase in output for a short period of time in some circumstances, yet are still uncomfortable with the kind of stimulus spending strategy that is the actual subject of current political debate. In 2009, James Buchanan (1986 Nobel Laureate in Economics), Edward Prescott (2004 Nobel Laureate in Economics), and Vernon Smith (2002 Nobel Laureate in Economics) promulgated this statement:
“Notwithstanding reports that all economists are now Keynesians and that we all support a big increase in the burden of government, we do not believe that more government spending is a way to improve economic performance.”
3. It doesn’t address my point
It is nerdy-sounding, but I believe critical to this discussion, to distinguish between measurement and knowledge. I made a very strong claim about measurement, and a very specific claim about knowledge.
I claim that we cannot usefully measure the effect of the stimulus program launched in 2009 at all. We can call this a “natural experiment” all day long, but in the absence of a control case, we cannot know what output would have been had we not executed the policy. Econometric models are not sufficient to estimate this counterfactual. Therefore, there is no achievable level of output in the United States in 2010, 2011, and so on that would enable a definitive answer to the question, “What was the effect of stimulus spending on output?” See, for example, in my original post, the response of leading economists when confronted by unemployment with stimulus that turned out to be higher than they projected unemployment would be without stimulus:
Ms. Romer famously projected in January 2009 that without government support, the unemployment rate would reach 9%, but with support the government could keep it under 8%. It’s 9.5% today.
Some Obama administration officials privately acknowledge they set job-creation expectations too high. The economy, they argue, was in fact sicker in 2009 than they and most others realized at the time. But they insist unemployment would have been worse without the stimulus.
All potentially useful predictions made about the output impact of the stimulus program are non-falsifiable. Failure of predictions can be simply justified by this sort of ad hoc explanation after the fact.
And pace Chait’s argument that private forecasters’ models all estimate a positive effect from the stimulus (implicitly because they all econometrically estimate a lower counterfactual than actually occurred), see Stanford Professor of Economics John Taylor’s analysis that adds to this list alternative economic models from the European Central Bank and Harvard that show no material effect of the stimulus. This argument will always degenerate back into endlessly dueling regressions, because there is no ability to adjudicate among them via experiment.
This does not mean that we have no knowledge about the potential effects of stimulus spending. It simply means that we have no scientific knowledge about this topic. Macroeconomic assertions about the effect of a proposed stimulus policy are not valueless, but despite their complex mathematical justifications, do not have standing as knowledge that can trump common sense, historical reasoning, and so on in the same way that a predictive rule that has been verified through experimental testing can.
When using stimulus to ameliorate the economic crisis, we are like primitive tribesmen using herbs to treat an infection, and we should not allow ourselves to imagine that we are using antibiotics that have been proven through clinical trials. This should not imply merely a different feeling about the same actions, but should rationally lead us to greater circumspection.
Chait moves onto to his second argument, which is that in the grand scheme of things $800 billion is not really that much money in comparison to the size of the financial crisis and the other potential future calls on the treasury:
Second, we are not really taking a "wild risk" by devoting $800 billion to mitigating the deepest economic crisis since the Great Depression. The long term fiscal cost of the stimulus is quite minimal
Sorry, no sale. $800 billion is a ton of dough, even for the U.S. government. You can’t rationally justify a spending program simply by claiming that it addresses a very big problem—you also have to make the argument that it will really do something about the problem. If I proposed spending $800 billion dollars of the people’s money pursuing a cure for cancer based on Pyramid Power, this would be a bad idea even if I could present a chart that showed the fiscal cost of cancer over the next 40 years dwarfed this amount of money. The overall advisability of any given proposed stimulus program is a contested question rather than crank theory, but that response goes directly to the point—the open issue that advocates must address is how effective it will be.
Chait then moves on to his third and final argument:
Third, Manzi suggests that remedies be as narrowly targeted as possible, reversible, and tested prior to implementation. The stimulus was pretty narrowly targetted. It consisted of spending and tax cuts designed to increase consumption. It is completely reversible in the sense that the spending and tax cuts are temporary.
I guess “narrowly targeted“ and “completely reversible” are subjective terms.
I haven’t reviewed the final law in detail, but I did take a pretty close look at the House bill as the stimulus debate proceeded in 2009. As of that bill, only about 1/7th of the spending portion of the bill (about $600 billion was spending and about $200 billion was changes to tax law) was expected to be spent in fiscal 2009. A majority of the spending was projected for fiscal years 2012 and beyond. To pick a couple of big items, about $20 billion was for “Medicaid and Medicare incentive payments to encourage providers to improve healthcare IT” and another roughly $19 billion was for “energy efficiency and renewable energy programs,” both of which may be excellent ideas, but it’s hard to see these kinds of long-term infrastructure projects being targeted on rapid expenditures to ameliorate a recession. Even the $45 billion or so on classic infrastructure like roads and bridges was mostly projected to be spent in the out-years.
How reversible would be the combination of various infrastructure investments (“Well, congressman, we could stop the construction with half the bridge done”) and increases in various unemployment, welfare, education and other social services programs—which together comprise the bulk of the spending—is a debatable political question. But imagine two illustrative scenarios. First, the U.S. emerges over the next few months into a recovery. The government, subject to normal grumbling, is mostly given credit for handling things the right way. Obama is reelected in 2012 and Democrats regain or retain control of Congress. Or second, we realize that we are in Japan-style decade of stagnation. Unemployment is stuck in the neighborhood of 10 percent. The mood of the country is deeply pessimistic, and government programs are a lifeline for a good chunk of the population. In which of these two scenarios is it realistic to expect that the 2009 increases to food stamps, unemployment compensation, healthcare benefits, or HUD housing assistance will really be rolled back in 2012–2015? Neither, as far as I can see.
7 comments
Interesting response. Hopefully Chait will reply. On the effect of stimulus: Is there any evidence to suggest that spending on Cap Ex projects is more beneficial than public service pay and pensions, which typically account for 50% up of goverment budgets?
- IggyPop
August 24, 2010 at 10:14am
I am about as enthusiastic about defending deficit spending to stimulate a stagnant economy as I am defending chemotherapy as a treatment for cancer. Maybe Manzi has a better idea. About the economy, not the cancer. Being a libertarian, his better idea would be to do nothing and let the economy fix itself. Which it would do. Over time. Of course, that isn't much consolation to the currently unemployed, or to the millions whose businesses are collapsing along with the economy. My comment to Manzi's previous post was meant to highlight those who refuse to accept what has been proven, by Keynes' calculations, by the many studies since, and, for people like me, by observation. Of course, there will always be those with an inflation-sensitive bias, as the investor class loses much from inflation but gains little from government stimulus spending. I would be more receptive to Manzi if only there were more in the investor class and fewer in the everybody else class. But I suppose that would treat this as a moral issue, which most certainly it is not.
- rayward
August 24, 2010 at 5:20pm
rayward: "Being a libertarian, his better idea would be to do nothing and let the economy fix itself. " Perhaps his first idea might be unwind much of the ties that are binding the hands of business? Intel's CEO just noted at a swanky dinner last night that building a new integrated circuit factory costs $4B to build that factory in the US, versus $3B in another country. Further, he notes that 90% of that extra $1B is tax laws and regulations that are absent in other countries. And Fiorina noted that our corp tax rates are 35% versus 18.2% in the rest of the world, and noted that "companies go where they are welcome" "Capital is agnostic. It doesn't have a religion. It doesn't have a philosphy. It goes where it finds the highest return" And many other countries have a much more friendly regulatory regime. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20014563-38.html?tag=mncol;1n And this is what everyone seems to miss. Normally our recoveries are quick. Why is this one lagging on and on? Perhaps it is the policies we have put in place since this started. The people that create jobs are telling why they are hesitant to create more jobs here. I suspect you think they are lying just so that they can make even more money. Ignore them at your own peril.
- seattleeng
August 25, 2010 at 3:45pm
Seattleeng... key to note that that hardly in any country will you have the kind of security and infrastructure to do business in the way that you do business here in America. Go to Europe and see if corporate taxes are that much lower (sure, maybe in Monaco or something like that). If the benefits (widely considered) outweighed the costs, that is, if what you are saying were to be true, companies would have left a long time ago sir. Go to South America, see if it is that easy to do business there and export all the way back to the U.S. Or to Mexico perchance. If you were to counter that firms have already left for countries like China, I suggest you to look at what they pay people to work there: it's wages that in some cases might make the difference, not whether you take 40% out of a 20 million dollar bonus.
- candela
August 31, 2010 at 10:18pm
Thanks Mr. Manzi for a well thought response. I think that your best comment is highlighting the flaws of the stimulus package as stimulus. I think it was more a package to stabilize and save the financial system from catastrophe, rather than just a simple collapse in aggregate demand. Sure, there were a fair amount of investment projects added, as well as benefits for disabled, veterans, and the elderly, and who knows whom else. I don't think that this was a substantial percentage. I think that your second best comment is calling in Barro as an empirical authority on the subject: he does in fact argue that he has not found a statistically significant multiplier different than 0 (except in spending for war, and he also acknowledges that that the meat of his work on the subject is still ahead of him). He suggests he would be willing to consider a multiplier of 0.5, but not 1 or anything over 1. We will have to wait until his analyses and his confidence levels come out. The last thing I want to say is that mathematical models are derived from historical reasoning: they are not abstract musings imposed by a wacko liberal. Historical reasoning made precise constitutes the essence of mathematical models: they are descriptions of our historical analyses in the language of precision.
- candela
August 31, 2010 at 11:10pm
One of the saddest aspects of our current mess is that it might even be worse if the politicians had left it to the economists. This Republican thanks both the previous and present administrations for TARP. Without it, both main street and wall street would be in much worse shape than they are. The bad news is that it bailed out scum; the good news is that it worked and the scum's eagerness to get out from under has resulted in it costing less than expected. Nonetheless, since the people hate the scum, neither party is willing to defend it. The bankers are still with us, and will be for the future. Personally, I feel more relieved than thankful. Next, the stimulus. Most economists think it did some good; but all hate it. Some say it was too small to begin with, but a further stimulus would finish the job. Don't ask them for specifics on new expenditures. Some say it was flawed from the git go; should have been, and still should be, predicated on tax breaks for businesses or those who own or run them; and has thus far been useless. The economists spend much of their time calling each other names--freshwater or saltwater is the mildest epithet--and the last people whose opinions they would value are businessmen, particularly "small" ones. The politicians have ensured that the bailout would be as ineffective as possible, by politicizing it. The administration left it to congress to develop and congress has demonstrated that each party is more interested in blaming the other than adjusting course. None of the congressional politicians has had a new idea in three decades. All hope to be pitching their old ideas for decades to come. The auto bailout may yet turn out to be more effective than either the politicians or their constituents expected. Neither party would have let the carmakers, or, perhaps more importantly their suppliers, croak. Since the Ds were in power, they let the bondholders take the gas pipe. If the Rs were in power they would have let the unions have a taste of Zyclon B. My guess is that the fatal illness of the industrial unions has been delayed but not forestalled. The whole "debate" has been engaging; the millions who are in pain wish the debaters were enjoying it less and they were enjoying it more.
- lsernoff
September 2, 2010 at 12:27am
What Manzi and Chait seem to be debating is whether economics can make any claim at all to be a kind of science. As a physical scientist, I have some doubts about that and certainly there is a distressing amount of politics dressed up as "science" in economics. That is, it is really easy for someone to estimate the effects of the stimulus and get the answer that the estimator wants. But is it really impossible to measure and assign reasonable error bounds? If so, then we should simply ignore everything every economist says, forevermore. I have to say that I am not terribly impressed that 10% of economists think the multiplier is zero, given the fraction of economists whose politics appears to determine their economic models. Perhaps they are right, but something like 3% of climate scientists think the climate is not changing and the globe warming, and in a more subjective field it is not hard to get to 10% maintaining a contrary position despite substantial evidence. I think Manzi has demonstrated here that it is pretty damn unlikely that the stimulus spending has no stimulative effect. And it is just hilarious that he would cite a Wall Street Journal editorial as evidence of anything. The WSJ editorial page supporting the right-wing position? News flash! It's evidence of nothing other than the business as usual!
- JEFF FREY
September 4, 2010 at 1:30pm