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Go Home John Podhoretz Returns For More Punishment

THE PLANK JUNE 17, 2009

John Podhoretz Returns For More Punishment

The Commentary editor follows up to say that his response to my critique of Robert Kagan:

was not a rebuttal; rather, I was making a point
about the bizarre nature of publishing a rather personal and ad hominem
attack on someone who is on the masthead of his own publication. If
Chait wishes to explain why that conduct is appropriate, that would be
interesting to read. It would be one thing if, sharing Chait’s disgust
with the argument posed by Kagan, the magazine’s editor, Martin Peretz,
removed Kagan from the masthead and then let Chait have at him. But
short of that, one might think Chait would owe a colleague a minimal
measure of respect. Or is that expecting too much?

Okay. First, a contributing editorship is an unpaid, seldom-updated honorific. Most editors and staffers at magazines couldn't tell you at any given time who most of their contributing editors are without looking at the list. Our contributing editors list has, and continues to have, people on it who have written rather unkindly about TNR writers or even the magazine itself without triggering Podhoretz's delicate sensibilities.

Second,  I wasn't making making an ad hominem attack on Kagan, I was refuting the substance (or lack thereof) of his argument. It's true that I called his column "fairly embarassing" -- because Kagan is an intelligent person who's capable of good work. I wouldn't have used the term if such a shoddy column were written by, say, John Podhoretz.

--Jonathan Chait

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21 comments

You two should just get a room.

- Simon Greenwood

June 17, 2009 at 7:46pm

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Jon Podhoretz is of the camp that believes that an organization should not have intellectual diversity amongst its members.  This is not surprising.  

- dylanposer

June 17, 2009 at 8:06pm

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JC:

Okay. First, a contributing editorship is an unpaid, seldom-updated honorific.

Whoa there!

Does that mean I'm not getting recompensed for my posts here? Say it ain't so. I'm counting on this dough to pay for my sex change operation.

And isn't this how Robert Kagan paid Charles Krauthammer to lay on his couch and shrink his brain?

It must be microscopic by now.

gw

- iambiguous

June 17, 2009 at 8:58pm

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Simon nails it.

- Wandreycer1

June 17, 2009 at 9:12pm

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simon, yeesh, you are gonna give me nightmares if you talk like that. have you ever seen JPod? He makes Cheney look sexy.

JPod is also ignoring how Christopher Buckley was run out of the National Review for having the temerity to endorse Obama in another magazine.

I know ratnerstar got dibs already but TNR has to have some standards, so if it is an unpaid honorific can I get my name on on one of them masthead thingys, instead of ratty? come to think of it, Kirchick has one, so maybe TNR is willing to lower itself for ratty, so what the hell, throw up both of us. if you do next time you are in Chicago boneill will get you drunk (but don't get to drunk or you might end up in his room, JPod would even be an improvement over that)

- blackton

June 17, 2009 at 9:15pm

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Good shot, Jonathan.

- scrubby

June 17, 2009 at 9:43pm

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So, how was the Chicago get-together last week?  We haven't been, ah, de-briefed yet, if you see what I mean.

- ironyroad

June 17, 2009 at 9:49pm

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Chait to Podhoretz: (with bad French accent) Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time...

People, you've got to remember the first rule of being a modern Republican: never let facts get in the way of a strongly-held opinion.  Everything that comes out of their pieholes and pens needs to be heard and read with that dictum in mind.

irony, I'm guessing nobody can remember the Chicago shindig.

- cspencef

June 18, 2009 at 1:25am

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Chait's got this one by several touchdowns, but for what it's worth, it's completely irrelevant whether or not Kagan is on the masthead.

I don't know about "embarassing", but it's certainly humorous watching a guy who presided over a murderous police state not that long ago being elevated to the status of a human rights reformer. I don't doubt the deep and wide sentiment among urban Iranians for reform, but where's the evidence that Mousevi represents anything more than co-option?

- Robert Powell

June 18, 2009 at 6:49am

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Re-try after "system abort".

I don't know about "embarassing", but it's certainly humorous watching a guy who presided over a murderous police state not so long ago being elevated to the role of human rights reformer.

I don't doubt the deep and wide sentiment for reform among urban Iranians, but where's the evidence that Mousevi represents less reform than co-option?

- Robert Powell

June 18, 2009 at 6:52am

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Sorry for the stuttering--some sort of disturbance in the Force.

One thing Chait misses in his dismissal of the effects of the Bush Administration on events in Iran is that it fostered the birth of the only democratic Shi'a-dominated government in world history next door in Iraq. It would be myopic to ignore the effect of this earthquake on Iran especially among the young, some of whom reportedly refer to Bush jokingly as "the thirteenth Imam" for his role in doing so. Obama's speech has been nice, but so far no where near as important.

We have made some of the worst foreign policy mistakes in our history by blundering into a situation about which we had little real information on the factions, issues, key players, culture, and history. At least a couple of those were in Iran. Why would anyone expect a smart guy like Obama to continue making the same mistake? In some respects "realist" = "not stupid".

- Robert Powell

June 18, 2009 at 7:25am

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I ave always marveled about how anyone cared about the political opinions of a group of people who sat at lunch tables in their college cafeteria grouped according to whether they were adherents of Stalin or Trotsky.  

- Shane Fergessen

June 18, 2009 at 8:35am

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  Stuart Wild wrote, "I ave always marveled about how anyone cared about the political opinions of a group of people who sat at lunch tables in their college cafeteria grouped according to whether they were adherents of Stalin or Trotsky.".  

  And then both teams created blogs and new adherents sprang forth. Some of those who once marveled, read the blogs and many commented. (It is cheaper then buying lunch, and one can still choose a side without taking a seat at the table.)

.

- michael

June 18, 2009 at 9:45am

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Touché, Michael. I do waste too much time with this crap.

- Shane Fergessen

June 18, 2009 at 10:15am

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So, J-Pod thinks that just because the two of you "work together" (in the loosest sense of the term) at a magazine, you should be ideologically compatible? Now that's what's wrong with the Republican party.

One of the things I've enjoyed the most about reading TNR is watching Marty Peretz go after John Judis. Not that I agree with Marty - I agree with John more - but I think it says a lot of about him that he tolerates someone with such divergent ideas at his magazine.

- benjamin81

June 18, 2009 at 10:32am

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  Nah, without a campaign I just lurk around until I can hurl a smart-ass reply.  But crap or not, this can't be avoided. Other sites on the web pick this up and the TNR Crew is photogenic enough to be seen on TV.  There is an alternative to wasting time, I even tried it but I like this more.

.

- michael

June 18, 2009 at 10:37am

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Benjaim

I second your opinon. Marty may not be a very good writer, but he has done a great job developing this magazine.

His talents obviously lie in being a good manager, developing the talent, and knowing when to leave them alone

Vis a vis Pod - I have always though he was boxing outside his weight class.

- tembrach

June 18, 2009 at 11:26am

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Chicago get-together was an excellent time.  We regaled each other with war-stories, discussions of Wittgenstien, deep analysis of current politics, and enjoyed more than one snifter of brandy.

Or maybe drank High Life and made dick jokes.  I can't remember.

- boneill

June 18, 2009 at 12:54pm

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Dick jokes about Wittgenstein? Now I'm really pissed I wasn't invited.

- cvillekid

June 18, 2009 at 1:32pm

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Clearly it was written in the stars that your meeting would be a convergence of intellectual witticisms and generally boorish behavior.

Good on yez!

- ironyroad

June 18, 2009 at 1:37pm

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To add to bone's summary, we talked about all of you.

- jhildner

June 18, 2009 at 2:19pm

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