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Go Home Maybe He Was Thinking "pro-choice"

THE PLANK OCTOBER 2, 2007

Maybe He Was Thinking "pro-choice"

BY TNR STAFF AND TNR STAFF

The Hill newspaper asked a dozen House members whether homosexuality "is a choice or something you're born with." Mississippi Democrat Bennie Thompson responded thusly:

"It's a choice. Without benefit of any science to the contrary, you know?"

Among those quizzed, only Thompson and Houston-area Republican Ted Poe (who first vacillated and said "it could be either") called it a choice. The genetic case is far from a scientific fact--but that doesn't mean we should assume it's a choice in the meantime.

Something tells me Thompson--who is no back-bencher: he chairs the House Homeland Security Committee--doesn't have multiple gay rights groups in his Mississippi Delta district. But I'm guessing his phone is ringing this morning. Maybe he can call Bill Richardson to comiserate.

--Michael Crowley

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37 comments

I've never understood the "choice" argument. Homosexuals acts are clearly a choice, but how can you choose to be attracted to a dude (or a lady, or whatever)? It makes no sense. If I could choose who I found attractive, I'd probably pick fat girls with bad skin or something, and die a happy man. And how is science going to tell us anything about the nature of choice? Science is an absolutely wonderful tool, but it has its limitations, one of which is "free will." Science can tell us whether homosexuality is caused by genetics, or the environment, or the devil, or whatever, but it has no insight into choice.

- ratnerstar

October 2, 2007 at 11:04am

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I also think this "choice/genetics" debate distracts from the more important issue that discriminating against homosexuals is patently unfair and unAmerican, regardless. Judaism can be a choice as well, but we don't bar interfaith marriages. In a free society people must be allowed to live their lives as they see fit, and enjoy equal protection under the law, regardless of what percentage of their makeup is due to nature or to nurture.

- adaglas

October 2, 2007 at 11:15am

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Makes an argument about it being a choice. He says, if you are a heterosexual man who is saying being gay is a choice: is there any way you would choose to place your cock in my mouth and me (deleted). It seems sort of juvenile but I think makes a really good point. Who would choose to do that (broadly). Gays? And why? Because they are gay. The argument becomes tautology, and meaningless.

- boneill

October 2, 2007 at 11:54am

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I like Dan Savage, but that's a poor argument. There are lots of reasons I might choose to do that. Maybe somebody offered me a million bucks. Maybe I'm trying to show solidarity with teh gays. Maybe Dan's holding a gun to my head. The point is, homosexual acts are clearly choices, as we understand "choice." Homosexuality, i.e. being attracted to members of your own gender, is not.

- ratnerstar

October 2, 2007 at 12:06pm

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I left out a lot, doing it from memory. I think he also said "joyfully, willingly, happily"- and yes, those could all apply to your million dollars or solidarity or a hamburger or whatever your reasons are, but I think you get the point. This: "The point is, homosexual acts are clearly choices, as we understand "choice." Homosexuality, i.e. being attracted to members of your own gender, is not." is very well put.

- boneill

October 2, 2007 at 12:18pm

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Geez, I wouldn't let Dan Savage perform oral sex on me for a freakin' hamburger! Not unless I was really hungry!

- ratnerstar

October 2, 2007 at 12:22pm

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Cheeseburger?

- boneill

October 2, 2007 at 12:30pm

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who says fat girls with bad skin would choose you? given your implication that fat girls with bad skin are better people but you don't like them soley because their appearance doesn't meet your standards why would they even want to be with you?

- blackton

October 2, 2007 at 12:39pm

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I don't think they're better people. I think they're less likely to be fielding large numbers of male suitors. It's all about minimizing competition. I'm never going to get a chance with Scarlett Johansson. But I might get one with Irene from accounting, so it would be nice if she were my ideal of beauty.

- ratnerstar

October 2, 2007 at 12:58pm

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actually, that even sounds worse. you are now admitting you would, if you could, choose them based on their level of desperation because you are pretty desperate yourself. Are you like the anti-James Bond? boy, I gotta imagine that makes you even more appealing.

- blackton

October 2, 2007 at 1:14pm

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first it seems as though you were just a pig, but now it seems as though you are not just a pig, but a loser pig at that. That said, I actually agree with everything you wrote. I know damn well that all single men are basically divided into these two parts. Pigs, and loser pigs. Until I moved to China I was a loser pig, and let me tell you how wonderful it was to be a pig. But now that I am married I am forbidden from... well everything.

- blackton

October 2, 2007 at 1:31pm

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Well, I'm a defense contractor, that's just how we are: heartless, unconcerned with human emotion, looking only at acquiring a competitive edge in new markets.

- ratnerstar

October 2, 2007 at 1:33pm

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I think ratnerstar makes sense, from an evolutionary standpoint. Women who aren't as good-looking have a less likely chance than good-looking women to sleep around, and that minimizes that chance of the male unwittingly raising another person's child- a disaster, speaking evolutionwise. Ratner is just accepting his ape-wrought ends.

- boneill

October 2, 2007 at 1:34pm

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Ratner: Can I buy you a drink Girl: Me? Really? But- but I am ugly. Ratner: Well, I'm looking at acquiring a competitive edge in a new market. Girl: You mean my vagina? Ratner: Yes.

- boneill

October 2, 2007 at 1:38pm

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Ratner: Can I buy you a drink Girl: Me? Really? But- but I am ugly. Ratner: Well, I'm looking at acquiring a competitive edge in a new market. Girl: You mean my vagina? Ratner: Yes. It's the free market, baby. Later on, I showed her my "invisible hand."

- ratnerstar

October 2, 2007 at 1:42pm

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then shouldn't men be hardwired to marry ugly broads then? Years ago Lou Costello said he wanted to marry an ugly broad, because if she left him he wouldn't care. For myself it was easy, I married a Chinese broad and being that I was the only Westerner in the whole city was reasonably certain that when my kids were born with blond hair and western features I was the father.

- blackton

October 2, 2007 at 1:46pm

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You guys are painting such a glowing picture of heterosexual dating, I might choose not to be gay anymore.

- drdannyu

October 2, 2007 at 1:48pm

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No, because we equate healthy features with fertility, and find that attractive. That said, because evolution has also given us brains (me moreso than anyone else), we can also analyze our choices based on how jealous we are and other personal preferences. Like, my girlfriend now is really hot- and obviously a little off, too, being with me- and I am in near-constant panic. But that is a choice you make depending on what you want to deal with, the trade-offs that are part of any human interaction. That's funny you are reasonable certian. Did I ever tell you I happened to be in China at that time? Ratty, the "invisible hand" line was great.

- boneill

October 2, 2007 at 1:50pm

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You could be part of this if, when you were 13, the coin you flipped when you were making your choice landed on heads. It isn't too late. Me, you and Ratty will go cruising for chicks around various bars and playgrounds.

- boneill

October 2, 2007 at 1:52pm

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Did you know, bone, that the best part of having a smokin' hot girlfriend is that she usually has lots of attractive friends you can introduce to random strangers from The Plank. Or so I've heard.

- ratnerstar

October 2, 2007 at 1:57pm

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"Like, my girlfriend now is really hot- and obviously a little off, too, being with me- and I am in near-constant panic." You gotta find the nozzle and re-inflate her.

- blackton

October 2, 2007 at 2:00pm

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bone, you lunkhead, it wasn't like that at all!! I really wrestled with the decision to be gay, since it meant sacrificing my heretofore uncontrollable attraction to women. But, with all the upsides (religious condemnation, familial distress, political scapegoating), how could I NOT eschew my otherwise inexorable passion for Cindy Crawford. It seemed to no-brainer. True, it was hard to convince myself that I was really into other guys, what with my underlying attraction to women being so strong, but when I considered how fun it would be to constantly have to defend my "lifestyle choice" against reactionary religious fundamentalists, I knew I had made the right decision.

- drdannyu

October 2, 2007 at 2:05pm

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"to be a no-brainer," that is.

- drdannyu

October 2, 2007 at 2:07pm

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I remember that day- you made the decision: I heard the sound of a million women weeping at once.

- boneill

October 2, 2007 at 2:13pm

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The entire varsity cheerleading squad made a collective suicide pact, and my efforts to dissuade them by taking a fun shopping trip for new shoes were for naught.

- drdannyu

October 2, 2007 at 2:17pm

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I for one would like to thank your wise and commendable choice. Perhaps you can convince Ratty, Bone to make the very small leap (what is it, two inches?) and join you, leaving more women for the rest. While my life is over, I do have of age nephews that can use the statistical help.

- blackton

October 2, 2007 at 2:21pm

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That's not all. Gay men are, without question, the best wing men that a straight guy could ask for.

- drdannyu

October 2, 2007 at 2:25pm

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My game must be off- I've had various girls do drastic things over me leaving them, but there was never a joint suicide pact. Drdan, I commend you, sir. Blackie, my friend, isn't it a little odd to describe your nephews as "of age"? It sounds like you are marketing them into sexual slavery. You have a wierd family.

- boneill

October 2, 2007 at 2:34pm

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The same reaction happened the day I decided to be straight

- adaglas

October 2, 2007 at 2:37pm

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That wasn't suicide by mass pillow fight by chance, was it?

- adaglas

October 2, 2007 at 2:38pm

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No, they did a series of back handsprings into an erupting volcano, as is an appropriate death for virgins. They had all, alas, been saving themselves for me.

- drdannyu

October 2, 2007 at 2:41pm

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Gay men are, without question, the best wing men that a straight guy could ask for. This is true, but it can be a blow to the ego: Girl: So what's up with your friend? Is he single? Me: Gay, sorry. Girl: Oh. Me: I'm not! Girl: Yeah, well. Hey, do you know Irene from accounting?

- ratnerstar

October 2, 2007 at 2:46pm

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I usually say he is taken- by the Devil! And then I end up playing Erotic Photohunt on the videogame machine alone.

- boneill

October 2, 2007 at 3:32pm

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are idiots

- purcellneil

October 2, 2007 at 3:55pm

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Wrong approach. Allow me: Girl: What about your friend? Me: He's gay. Girl: Oh. Me: So am I, but I don't think it's going to take. If only the right girl could come along to sway me! Jackpot.

- adaglas

October 2, 2007 at 3:57pm

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Post 22 should be on billboards across America -- well said, drdannyu. adaglas made me spill my coffee with #29. The rest of you -- I think I know Irene from accounting. She's now a Senator from New York. So be nice.

- purcellneil

October 3, 2007 at 9:46am

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Why is it something you choose or are born with? Has developmental psychology been completely thrown out the window?

- pjsmmjd

October 3, 2007 at 6:55pm

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