SUBSCRIBE NOW WELCOME BACK. Do you want to continue reading where you left off? New Republic subscribers can pick up where they left off no matter which device they were previously using. SUBSCRIBE NOW

Go Home Tel Aviv Journal: If Palestine Declares Statehood, It...

TEL AVIV JOURNAL AUGUST 17, 2011

Tel Aviv Journal: If Palestine Declares Statehood, It Won’t Change Anything on the Ground

BY MARTIN PERETZ

The Arabs of Palestine have always nurtured a strategy to avoid negotiating a peace deal with the Israelis; and it is that they won’t negotiate at all unless Israel meets so many Palestinian preconditions that the map from which they and their Arab neighbors launched their wars would be completely restored in advance of talks. Poof: There was no Six Day War in 1967 and there was no Yom Kippur War in 1973. Forget both of these and smaller battles in between and after. Then, OK, let’s meet and see where we can go from here or actually there. Which, as Barack Obama didn’t quite have the nerve to say but certainly meant, is the armistice lines of 1949—yes, that’s exactly what he intended and almost said.

So, 63 years after, the president wants to enshrine the momentary configuration of where the fighting happened to stop as the formal and operative borders between the State of Israel and Palestine, notwithstanding that there are now two putative Palestines (the West Bank and the Gaza Strip) governed by two enemy regimes and that there is another one waiting to be birthed in Jordan. (Look, I like the Hashemites, sort of. But they don’t have long for this world. You believe in Arab Spring? Then why shouldn’t roses also bloom in Amman?)

It’s true that Obama’s scheme allows for a reciprocal transfer of real estate between Israel and the not quite nascent Palestine. But, given the fuss his administration has made even about Jewish land going back three millennia, like the City of David as if it had been a water hole or a mere parking lot for chariots, you have a sense of the utter ahistoricity of the president’s perspectives on these matters. The fact is that Jews and Arabs will not live neighborly lives once it is clear that Palestinian half-rule does not mean the restoration of the Mandelbaum Gate and the Jews excluded from their deepest history and their most sacred sites. (I know that many liberals and especially Jewish liberals don’t cotton to the idea of Jewish sacred sites and think it downright primitive. Ah, but a Muslim shrine! Well, you know the difference, of course you do.)

For nearly 20 years, the world sat quite comfy with the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, with help from the local Arabs, having occupied and then destroyed the entire ancient Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem which, according to the 1947 Palestine Partition and a later resolution, was supposed to be governed with the rest of the city, along with Bethlehem and other localities, as a corpus separatum. Included in this territory was the Hebrew University on Mount Scopus and the Hadassah Hospital, then, as now, the most advanced patient care institution and medical school in the region. Of course, the internationalization of Jerusalem, which the Zionist authorities accepted, never came to pass. All of “east Jerusalem” was governed by King Abdullah I, who made sure that no glory attached to what we are now endlessly told is the third holiest city in Islam. The internationalization scheme was dead. In response in 1949, Israel took “west Jerusalem” as its capitol, which almost no foreign government recognized formally, but all duly and dutifully sent their emissaries up to Zion for business.

Even given the facts established by the Jordanians in old Jerusalem and the neglect by them of the West Bank (called by history and modern Zionism, Judea and Samaria), the Israeli prime minister offered to restore the captured lands to Arab sovereignty. But already then—that is, 1967—Colonel Qaddafi was in power in Libya. He cast a thrall over the Arab League and established the principles of Arab diplomacy with Israel: no peace, no recognition, and no negotiations. It is grotesque that Qaddafi has lasted so long and, as late as last year, could command the attendance of the whole malfunctioning “Arab family” (except for Lebanon, a sick member by itself, which was offended by a diplomatic slight) plus King Juan Carlos, Ban Ki-Moon, the chairman of the European Commission, the chairman of the African Union, and a special representative of People’s China at yet another conference on the “situation” in Palestine.

Palestine may or may not secure some sort of recognition for itself at the forthcoming meeting of the General Assembly, when the emissaries of dictatorships come to New York for a big shopping spree. But it will not much change things on the ground. In fact, the more the Palestinians deal in symbols the less ground they will have left to claim. This should be the lesson of the last four and half decades. So long as the Palestinians refuse to negotiate there will be less to negotiate about. Israel is a dynamic society. It cannot, it will not wait for the Arabs of Palestine to adjust to reality.

Take the new construction announced a few days ago by the Israelis for Ariel, 11 miles east of the Green Line, a literal agricultural line, green as in agriculturally developed, in case you wondered. Yes, it juts into the West Bank. But it is also 33 years old and has some 18,000 inhabitants. Now, 277 housing units will be built—and more if the Palestinians don’t come to the table quickly. This, by the way, is neither a right-wing community nor a religious one. And it boasts a university with 11,000 students, of which close to 1,000 are Arab. There is no way that Ariel will be forfeited to the Palestinian Authority.

The issue in Jerusalem is very different. And more intricate. It is, aside from being a Jewish city, also an Arab city. With Arab history, Arab hopes, Arab actualities. The cartography of a settlement in the city will take as least as much ingenuity as good will. Moreover, there is land to the east of the municipal lines on which “Arab Jerusalem” can be expanded as “Jewish Jerusalem” was expanded. Again, I have little idea of how exactly the “whole” city will be governed and even if it will be as a “whole.”

But there are certain principles that cannot be ignored. The first of these is that this tiny place is the heart of Jewish history. The second, and by extension, is that the city is also the heart of Christian history. Together this goes back three millennia to King David, omitting the trajectory from Abraham for wont of evidence. So, frankly, Arab caviling with Jews over a house that belonged to Haj Amin Husseini, the Hitlerite Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, but was in an old Jewish neighborhood, is more than slightly obscene. Indeed, the denial of the epochal past of Jews and Christians (after all, they are intimately bound) is not worthy of the Muslims who recognize it in the Koran. Remember, then, that if there were no Jewish temple there was no Jesus or Jesus figure, and the entire history of Christianity collapses.

Israel is altering the face of Jerusalem. And so are the Palestinians, the latter through unrecognized and illegal immigration from the West Bank to the city. Hundreds and hundreds (there are no really vouchable numbers) from Hebron have moved into Silwan. I believe that this is evidence that many Palestinians simply do not want to live under Palestinian jurisdiction. Another 12,500 Arab residents of the Holy City have simply become citizens of Israel which, apparently, in their situation was easy to achieve. Wouldn’t you rather live in Israel than in Palestine? As the restive Arabs of Israel, Palestinian nationalists all, would also rather be Israeli citizens than citizens of Palestine.

After all, there is the difference between a free and prosperous country and … whatever Palestine will be, God help them.

Yet, in Tuesday’s Jerusalem Post, there appeared a balanced editorial comment, “The PA economy,” pointing to the impressive (but relative) prosperity in Judea and Samaria and also to its literal dependence on Israel. But remember that Palestine would not be impoverished Egypt or backward Jordan. So there is reason to move on.

The major impediment to moving on is actually the relentless psychodrama of the president about new Israeli construction in the territories which is little and far between. It has squeezed the Palestinians into a corner where many of them and certainly most Israelis did not want them to go. Maybe it gave Obama some moral thrill to castigate one of America’s most faithful allies. After all, he has not had many thrills at all. But the utter collapse of his Middle East diplomacy can be traced to his and Hillary Clinton’s apoplexy over a small neighborhood here and another one there. And all of this rancor when the two of them were still playing out the charade of Bashar Assad as a force for peace. Shame on them for being so insistently stupid and for purporting to have the moral credit for going into hysterics over a few hundred apartments in a Jewish neighborhood that was founded in 1973 and already has 40,000 residents.

A post-script on building in Jerusalem. There is a danger that the government is courting, and it is in the construction in neighborhoods for ultra-orthodox Jews. It is a matter with a different timbre than the disputes between Jewish Israelis and Palestinians who also need housing. The demographic balance of Jewish Jerusalem is shifting sharply towards the ultra-orthodox. This is an ongoing disaster. For other Jews it means the curtailment of freedoms, the narrowing of public and private culture, the miring of the city in a backward and unproductive economy rooted in psychotic aversion to the real world. For the Arabs of Jerusalem it means hardly being seen at all.

Martin Peretz is editor-in-chief emeritus of The New Republic.

SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS

Show all 48 comments

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

48 comments

Mr. Peretz: Isn't it time you got over your deep disappointment with Obama? You were not the only one to be duped! Here are the latest shenanigans from the White House: http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/08/16/obama-bush-jerusalem/ Can you believe it? Jerusalem has always been the preferred seat of ultra orthodox Jews. Who were those Jews which the Jordanians expelled from East Jerusalem in 1948? Have you ever read Agnon's novels and short stories about Jerusalem? Do you mean these ultra orthodox Jews have no rights in democratic Israel because they look strange to you and embarrass you, for some reason?

- noga1

August 17, 2011 at 12:15am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

All this amounts to is that Israel has the military power to continue violating the Fourth Geneva Convention and UN resolutions, until it doesn't. That day will come. Particularly if the Arabs resolutely refuse to legitimize Israel's illegal settlements as the ransom for Israel ending its occupation of them. Contra Peretz's wishful thinking and boasting, time and demography are not on Israel's side.

- roidubouloi

August 17, 2011 at 12:29am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Thank you, Marty. I'm glad that intelligent pro-Israel sentiments can still be expressed somewhere in the liberal blogosphere. The neighborhood around Israel is currently in serious disarray. Roid should rethink his mantra about the constraints of time and demography.

- amidut

August 17, 2011 at 8:21am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Excellent as always. To add insult to injury. Read today's article in the new York times about Syrian attacks and fleeing Palestinian refugees from a Syrian town. But withouth shame Hillary Rodham Clinton states that the USA will not demand the demise of Bassar al-Assad unless Saudi Arabia and Turkey come forward first. the Obama-Hillary duet were prompt to demand Egypt's Mubarak, but Hellas he was a friend of the USA. Of course we know that the troika Obama-Hillary-Nancy Pelossi are secret intimate friends of Bassar al-Assad. What do they see on this giraffe look alike merciless dictator. Nobody knows. But that we know is that the troika Obama-Hillary-Nancy Pelossi is treacherous and completely untrosty. They are backstabbers. When Barack Hussein Obama says I am a friend of Israel and will always stand by you, just you rich Jews give me your money for reelection. Tou are dealing with a kier backstabber. We need to cut this horse manure. Tha Palestinians have their country Jordan. 20% of Israel's population are Arab Moslems some Christians fully Israeli citizens protected and respected as Israelis. They want to be and remain Israeli's. Thus Judea and Samaria east and west Jerusalem and all of the liberated territories all will remain Israel. No negotiations. Israel is the only country that protects free worship for all religions. The Moslem countries under all of their savage dictators respect and protect nobody but themselves .they keep killing unarmed civilians wit impunity. The obama-hillary-nancy pelossi troika condones these atrocities. Palestinian authorities ,secular and religious, just constantly promulgate hatred and violence against Israel against the Jews. Who are you kidding, you can not compromise with these savages that a your enemies. It is ludicrous and in comprehensive. The only rationale is a strong Israel. You can not talk to a rabid hyena, you have to defend yourself.

- JAIMECHUCH

August 17, 2011 at 8:27am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

I just realized with shock and thunder, that next to this article is the advertisement for the reelection of the treacherous backstabber Barack Hussein Obama and Michele LeVaughn Robinson Obama. They are asking for Jewish money. In between other things besides Obama insultiinsulting the prime minister of Israel at every opportunity. Michele met in private and in secret with Bibi's wife Sarah and only after repeated requests by Sarah. No reporters allowed. Well there are many rich Jews donating money for Barack Hussein Obama reelection. Surely there must be other reasons than antagonism towards Israel. Although the part owners of the new York times, the Ochs Schulbergers, have always been rabid anti-Israel American Jews. Possibly there are a bunch of rich American Jews that are also rabid anti- Israel chaps. And as Mary Martiromo says on CNBC at the end of day trading of the Stock Market " do you know where your money is". Well the rich American Jews, the anti-Israel gangs, know. They are helping that treacherous back stabber condoner of Syrian murders, the one and only Barack Hussein Obama and second in command Hillary Rodham Clinton. Where are the Saudis putting their money for? Would it possibly be for bending for the Saudi king by the American president?

- JAIMECHUCH

August 17, 2011 at 8:58am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Peace on earth. Good will to humankind. Do these values apply to the spot on earth where many human religious beliefs seem to have originated?

- skahn

August 17, 2011 at 9:44am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

"Rabid Hyena?" Do you really believe that, Jamie? I really think that kind of rhetorical demonizing is a bit beyond the pale. And it's racial stereotyping. Jews have suffered enough from that kind of branding. I know. I grew up in the Fifties in an anti-Semitic family of immigrants from what used to be called Yugoslavia. The things they said around the dinner table are still etched in my mind's eye. Your defense of Israel's national sovereignty I can admire, and in many ways obviously I agree with. But you just got a little too emotional in your argument. I never liked Assad and still remember when the NYT magazine did a puff piece several years ago about him and his fashionably dressed wife attending a government-sponsored event. The charming dictator and his beautiful wife out on the town. Please. What bullshit. And it did not lead to a liberalization of human rights for Syrian citizens. Ok, dictators today wear Armani suits rather brown shirts, I though after finishing the article. Actually, I agree with you that Israel would be committing appeasement, even political suicide, by putting Judea, Samaria and the other liberated territories on the negotiating table. And if I were an Arab, I would certainly want to be a citizen of Israel. It actually IS a functioning democracy and allows its citizens rights, which only other countries such as Tunisia and Egypt hope to institute after their citizens brought down their respective military dictatorships during the Arab Spring. As far as Obama being a "kier backstabber" wanting money from rich Jews for his campaign chest..well I can definitely see your point there. But I'm a cynic. All politicians are basically whores to me. We contribute to their campaign chests so that when they do get elected they'll screw the OTHER guy rather than us. Cynical but that's how I feel. And I also agree that "the only rationale is a strong Israel." I just thought you got a little hot under the collar. But despite that I really admire your sincerity and feelings about Israel. It was been in a constant state of war since its founding. And despite that, it has managed to furnish in so many ways, which border on a Biblical miracle in itself.

- rewiredhogdog

August 17, 2011 at 9:47am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

And let nobody forget that Oslo Norway gave The Nobel peace prize to Barack Hussein Obama before he could accomplished anything. Well they thought that BHO ascendancy to the American presidency was good enough for a Noble peace prize. Are the Oslo Norway ultra-leftists in charge really racist bigots? only when it comes to be rabid anti-Israel, which they are. But this is not consider anti-Jewish, only pro Muslim jihadists. Have you heard anything from the Oslo Norway crowd about Bassar al-Assad killing unarmed anti government demonstrators? Why are they silent these ultra-leftists creeps? And they are surprised when one of their own goes on a killing spree. Oh yes and they call him a Christian fundamentalist. Oslo Norway ultra leftists are not only a sorry site of decrepitude. They are dishonest example of human manure. And that goes for all the ultra-leftists around us.

- JAIMECHUCH

August 17, 2011 at 9:51am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

You see, I was just saying how we needed a poster on here that could make Peretz look coherent, rational and, fair. Welcome, Jaime! ps... only dipshit anti-arab zealot bigots repeatedly use the presidents middle name in the perjorative. Peace!

- Tristan

August 17, 2011 at 9:59am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

skahn. It applies only when Israel respects, guards, and protects all religions in Jerusalem, and in all parts of liberated Judea and Samaria.

- JAIMECHUCH

August 17, 2011 at 10:00am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Tristan big ass. Barack Hussein Obama uses it all the time. He is proud of his middle name as you are .........etcetera etcetera etcetera. It is the truth. But you can not handle the truth. It is Barack Hussein Obama and he is mighty proud of his middle name and anti-Israel diatribe. If it hurts you use Vaseline both in your mouth and rear openings.

- JAIMECHUCH

August 17, 2011 at 10:05am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Peretz has cojones, I'll give him that. He has been continually unwilling to turn a blind eye to the unremitting hostility of Arabs to Israel and to the security arrangements this fact requires. But when he tries to minimize the significance of Israel violating international agreements to expand settlements, I believe his staunch pro-Israel chauvinism has gone a bridge too far. Even Israel's friends and supporters, of which I am one, cannot defend it. And not just morally but practically: it gives Israel's enemies aid and comfort and fosters a growing international consensus against what is seen as Israeli imperialism. It creates a coiled-spring resistance and political cover for Obama's pandering to the Arab world. Along with roid and others, I do not like where this is going.

- JackR

August 17, 2011 at 10:09am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Is Tristan a paid Iranian blogger, paid to insult and distract, abusing the open forum? Yes he is. Is for TNR to kick these cackarouches out.

- JAIMECHUCH

August 17, 2011 at 10:11am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

I am sure glad there aren't any trolls to be found at the TNR website, especially when we discuss Israel and Middle East. I continue to read the informative, civil, and useful comments with interest and admiration. Keep up the good work, everyone!

- skahn

August 17, 2011 at 10:12am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

JackR. Whatever Israel does or does not the international community is worthless. They have demonstrated that over and over again. When they are silent about the slaughter being committed by the Syrian dictator against unarmed defenseless civilians. Are you for real criticizing Israel for constructing in the liberated territories? Do you believe that Barack Hussein Obama and his second in command Hillary Rodham Clinton have any credibility and moral or immoral authority to criticize? International agreements are non existent entities. Just watch how Palestinian leaders, secular and religious, constantly allow hatred and violence against Israel and against the Jews a daily occurrence. Where are the international ""community"" and agreements condemning these actions by the Moslem leaders? There is no excuse for naiveté There is no excuse for murderous condoning. Like heck I am going to ostracize Israel for defending themselves. For building in their own land that they liberated from the attacking hyenas Jordan Egypt and Syria. The big mistake that Menachem Begin did and other Israeli prime ministers, was to not annex Judea and Samaria East Jerusalem Hebron and wherever sites like the tomb of Rachel and the tomb of Joseph. Palestinians have their country Jordan. Israeli Arabs, Moslem and Christian, are proud and very happy to be Israeli citizens (20% of the population) They say it clear and loud, they will never move to Moslem controlled countries, never. If that is not clear then day does not exist and night does not exist. Even Barack Hussein Obama and second in command Hillary Rodham Clinton understand. It is over to pick on Israel to be righteous among the evil jackals and hyenas that the Moslem leaders are. If that is not clear, then the day is not day and the night never existed.

- JAIMECHUCH

August 17, 2011 at 10:42am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

very well written, Peretz, except for your unrelenting bigotry against ultra-Orthodox Jews. yes noga, Obama's State Dep't taking Jerusalem out of "Israel" is beyond belief. I do think Ariel is the single biggest thorn in the palestinian's view of "settlements". there are a few rational pals who like attending Ariel U, but not amongst even the most pragmatic of official-paldom. Interesting that Israel just announced new housing in Ariel.

- K2K

August 17, 2011 at 10:45am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Jaime's rapier intellect not only discovered my latent anti-Jewish sentiments, but my secret employer as well! Curses! My masters in Tehran will NOT be pleased. Oh, it's spelled "cockroach" by the way. It's ok, we can tell English obviously isn't your first language. Try looking up the big words in your dikkktionary.

- Tristan

August 17, 2011 at 10:47am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

skahn. Too bad you can not stand open honest free discussion. Certainly the Arab Iranian countries do a better job for your likings and lickings. I wonder how are they covering the Syrian slaughter of unarmed civilians . You see be free and open your mouths in a Moslem controlled country, and what do you get, a grave. And oh yes 500 hundred virgins. Ain't bad ain't bad at all.

- JAIMECHUCH

August 17, 2011 at 11:04am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

rewired hog. You remind me of Jackie Mason's routine. He says that at the end of the show this old Jewish lady came to him and told him not good your routine is too Jewish too Jewish. If you have better words about the slaughter going on in Syria. And how yourself are indifferent to this criminality, you not only disappoint. If you are afraid , you come out for what in the diaspora considered Jews as cowards. Truly I am sorry for you. But heck we live in a free society, you can always be a wimp like Barack Hussein Obama. And do not come an tell me that when I am commenting on a wrong and use my own adjectives that are more than proper, you call me anti-Arab anti-Moslem. A schlemiel is a schlemiel is a schlemiel. Grow up if it is not too late and be a mensch. The Moslem countries surrounding Israel are rabid hyenas, fair and square. And Israel has to be powerful and in constant guard. Too bad that the truth does not get through blocked brains.

- JAIMECHUCH

August 17, 2011 at 11:19am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Tristan you failed miserably in your incitement and personal attacks. Notice that this paid blogger had no arguments but personal attacks to distract open discussion on the subject at hand. Paid bloggers by the Iranians dictators are typical on our free speech sites. I ass the moderator to get rid of this cackarouches. Hey my IPad 2 corrected the word. If it is not Tristan is a bed bug that fails miserably to distract.

- JAIMECHUCH

August 17, 2011 at 11:25am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

I can't be sure, but I think Jaime wants me.

- Tristan

August 17, 2011 at 11:34am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Jaime - we have a basic, probably unbridgeable difference: you do not appear concerned about actions that might tend to exacerbate Israel's isolation. I certainly do. Given the intensity of your conviction on this point, I do not believe anything I might say will move you one iota to share my concern. So.....up I give.

- JackR

August 17, 2011 at 11:43am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

rewired hog. I have now read the rest of your comment. You might be calm on what is going on. But I am really astonished at the total absence of outrage about the Syrian slaughter of unarmed civilians going on. What is happening a whole nation with Barack Hussein Obama has become anesthesiazed? Are we zombies, has Barack Hussein Obama effectively accomplished the job of the body snatchers in that famous movie of the 1950's, and converted all of you into living vegetables? Shame of shames, sad ugly.

- JAIMECHUCH

August 17, 2011 at 11:47am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Jack R. Yes we disagree. If Palestinian incitement is ok and not being criticized. The only answer is for Israel to be assertive. At the end of the day it is Israeli property won fair and square when they were attacked by Egypt Syria and Jordan. Judea and Samaria and Jerusalem have grown prosperous, the building of more housing ironically provides jobs to Palestinians from Abbas leadership, this corrupt leadership that keeps the Palestinians unemployed and only fed with hatred towards Israel and the Jews. It is time to call a square a square. I am for honesty and truth. I am not a lousy liar politician. Too much damage has been done to our moral fiber. Too long has been the untruthful attacks against Israel have been going on. We know Israel is in a state of war with the Moslem lead countries. False propaganda is the arm of the Islamic jihadists. Iran and the other bunch. And they have as allies the extreme left, the Oslo Norway, the deligitimazers, the anti-Jews haters. This is a whole picture of self defense. At the end of the day you fight back with the truth the way Jews always fought and won. Well you give up, fine I will not.

- JAIMECHUCH

August 17, 2011 at 12:09pm

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Jack R. You are concerned a bout buildings in Israel. And you are not touched by the slaughter of innocent civilians going on in Syria ? There are no civilized words to be said in this civil site. I am really deeply sorry.

- JAIMECHUCH

August 17, 2011 at 12:17pm

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Obama's attitude to Israel has to be seen as the rational product of his primary education about it on the knees of Rashid Khalidi and maybe Edward Said as well. It's no use trying to re-teach him about history now. He cannot relate to it except though coldness and hostility. I will say this again to Marty: give it a rest. This recent exposure of the almost Orwellian pettiness of this WH's policies, in having someone cleanse "Israel" from the records with a systematic search and delete really tells me all that I need to know about the greatness of the current "leader of the free world".

- noga1

August 17, 2011 at 12:25pm

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Jaime - you assume too much. You cannot know how I feel about events in Syria, since I was commenting on a policy of the Israeli government, not about Syria at all. It should be possible to address one issue without being discredited by the failure to address another issue, even if it is geographically proximate. For the record, I share your outrage and dismay over the murderous actions of the Assad regime, but they do not wash away my concern for the short-sighted actions of the Netanyahu government.

- JackR

August 17, 2011 at 1:57pm

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

The racist Peretz trying to justify the actions of the apartheid regime. The world is laughing at us for our support of the apartheid regime at the UN. What doesn't matter is our veto. The reality on the ground is changing everyday. No apartheid will survive indefinitely.

- MSA70

August 17, 2011 at 4:42pm

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

"The world is laughing at us " I am curious. Can you provide some evidence of the "The world is laughing at us" ??

- noga1

August 17, 2011 at 5:39pm

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

MSA70 "The racist Peretz...." The racist antisemite MSA70 has put in his two cents. Now we can go on with the discussion.

- arnon

August 17, 2011 at 5:50pm

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

MSA: The apartheid regime that we support at the U.N. is the one led by Bashar Assad. No one who gives a damn about truth can seriously accuse Israel of being an apartheid regime. It's nothing more than a cheap smear that is used by liars and Jew-haters to demonize Israel. Either you are abysmally ignorant or deliberately malicious. In either case, you make it obvious that your posts deserve to be ignored entirely.

- willjames77

August 17, 2011 at 5:54pm

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Damn, reminds me of good old times. Peretz, welcome back from the cold.

- rmakover@swbell.net-OLD

August 17, 2011 at 7:08pm

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Ahoy there, willjames and makover!

- noga1

August 17, 2011 at 7:39pm

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

I don't think that Martin Peretz is a "racist" and I also think that much of what he said is true. However, it's beside the point. While the Palestinian UN bid instead of negotiations probably won't work Israel will have spent more time and effort to stave off an outcome that a decade ago wouldn't even have come up. Right now Israel is playing defensive and spends more time diplomatically blocking Arab maneuvers to delegitimize it. Much of this could have been avoided if Netanyahu had not only said that he agrees to a two State solution but would have actively removed remote settlements and annexed those settlements closest to Jerusalem and Stated that the rest of the territory could be turned into a Palestinian State if and when the PA decided to negotiate seriously a lasting peace accord with mutual recognition. In the meantime Israel should keep its army there but not to protect settlements. To protect Israeli civilians from attacks of the kind that is coming from Gaza. As it is, Netanyahu claims victory but has been making desperate noises about going to Ramallah begging for a peace accord. This is the wrong way to go. If the Palestinian Arabs smell weakness they’ll just tear Netanyahu apart. The only way for Israel to move forward is to take out the settlements deep in the territory annex those closest to Israel and keep the army in place there till Palestinians decide to negotiate. This would shut up those who keep harping about international law. I read the other day of some right wing Knesset members who are working to annex the whole of the West Bank. These guys must be living in a different universe if they think that doing so would keep the State Jewish and safe.

- arnon

August 17, 2011 at 9:34pm

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Recently I made friends with Mustafa an Egyptian that lives in America. A manager of a well to do motel in north Baltimore along Pulaski highway. We chatted at length. He being a Moslem me being a Jew. Both of us secular. When I mentioned that Israel never teaches their people hatred Towards Moslems he simply was left speechless. Thus our future conversations were about daily life, no longer about the Israeli Moslem discourse. It was very educational. Instead of me writing about hatred practiced by Moslem leaders against Israel and against Jews I will simply state that Israel does not promote against Moslems. At this point if there are Israelis like rabbi Ovadia of the Shas party spreading hatred against Moslems he is to be considered imbalanced and crazy. Sadly he is revered by his followers and yields power because of significant seats the Shas party has in the Israeli Knesset. He does not represent the majority of Israelis, or Jews for that part. Israeli Arabs mostly Moslems some Christians represent 20% of Israeli population with equal rights and protection and respect, I have said it before, Israeli Arabs would rather live in Israel than in any Moslem controlled country. All religions are practiced freely in Israel. All ways of life are practiced freely in Israel, gays are free and respected. This is the Jewish way. Mustafa and I are friends, from the moment we met and hopefully forever. Is a nice chapter in my life. One that gives me real pleasure. One that gives me hope for the future. Mustafa is 50 years old, I am 75. Maybe before I meet my destiny, maybe there will be real peace, prosperity in the Middle East. Time will tell.

- JAIMECHUCH

August 17, 2011 at 11:49pm

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

As an addendum I finally contacted my two senators and my representative. I demanded an investigation on the lack and almost total absence of response by the State Department towards the slaughter of unarmed civilians in Syria by Bassar al-Assad army. I will follow contacting the Senate Foreign Relations head, that happens to be John Kerry Senator from Massachusets. By the way he has been completely silent about the massacres taking place in Syria. I wish more people should contact their Senators and Representatives. That is if you are as disturbed with this killings of unarmed civilians by the government in Syria, simply because they are peacefully demonstrating against the oppressive regime of Bassar al-Assad. How many martyrs are to be before this slaughter is stopped. Over 2000 people have been killed, all unarmed civilians. And the slaughter continues.

- JAIMECHUCH

August 18, 2011 at 12:05am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Israel officially annexed "East" Jerusalem after the 1967 war (which is why Ramat Shlomo in North Jerusalem - built on a rocky hillside formerly occupied by goats - ok, palestinian owned goats - should never have been considered a "settlement" by Obama), and extended Israeli "laws, jurisdiction and administration" to the Golan Heights in 1981. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_Heights yes, hello willjames and makover! As to Syria? Only Turkey can lead on trying to stop Assad's military rampage. And the Kurds really complicate what Turkey can or will do. I just do not see what more the US can do except the new pressure for EU nations to stop importing oil from Syria, to further starve Syria of foreign exchange with which to buy more weapons instead of food. yeah,good luck on getting John Kerry to do anything about Syria except talk, and talk, and talk. just thinking about Kerry talking is making me sleepy :) I think Assad needs to keep killing until the entire country rises up - and maybe even Hezbollah cracks as collateral damage. Where will all the Iraqi Christian refugees who are in Syria go? Considering the reports of tanks and now gunboats, I am actually surprised the death toll is so low. Bashir is not going full metal like his father did in Hama.

- K2K

August 18, 2011 at 8:17am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Attack on Israel from Sinai killed a number of Israelis: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/19/world/middleeast/19israel.html?_r=1&hp

- arnon

August 18, 2011 at 9:06am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkt_L7QHxiY Palestinian TV on the Western Wall plaza: "We look out over [Islamic] holiness and on sin and filth (Jews' praying at Western Wall) in an area that used to have [Arab] people and homes. When they [Israelis] disappear from the picture, like a forgotten chapter in the pages of our city's history, we will build it anew. The Mughrabi Quarter will be built here (on the Western Wall Plaza)." And then, there is this: http://simplyjews.blogspot.com/2011/08/and-you-still-think-its-all-about.html 'It takes 20 seconds for Nabil Shaath, PLO's Head of Foreign Relations, to reveal the "secret" in an interview in Arabic to Lebanon's ANB TV, on 13 July, 2011"

- noga1

August 18, 2011 at 2:04pm

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

And then, there is this: http://simplyjews.blogspot.com/2011/08/and-you-still-think-its-all-about.html 'It takes 20 seconds for Nabil Shaath, PLO's Head of Foreign Relations, to reveal the "secret" in an interview in Arabic to Lebanon's ANB TV, on 13 July, 2011"

- noga1

August 18, 2011 at 2:05pm

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

thanks noga. good thing the WH & their press corps have Syria as a distraction from Jerusalem. I am flu-ish today, and trying to stop wondering whether the Bedouin are a now transnational organized 'people'. The Bedouin of Jordan were pressuring the hashemite King to strip (some) palestinians of their Jordanian citizenship. The Bedouin of the Sinai are most likely involved, possibly with Gaza Pals in the attacks arnon cites. The Turks are bombing (air strikes) alleged PKK "terrorists" inside northern Iraq. and cars are on fire in Berlin???

- K2K

August 18, 2011 at 2:39pm

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Another stream-of-consciousness article/blog about nothing but Peretz' hatred for Obama for proposing what has long been the only possible basis for peace. I am tempted to say that Palestine's declaration/achievement of statehood this fall, if nothing else, will convince people like Peretz that you can't defy everyone in the world, including your one and only remaining defender, and still expect to have your way. If there is a vote in the U.N., I think the U.S. should simply abstain--we have suffered enough on Israel's behalf.

- mlottman

August 18, 2011 at 3:59pm

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

mlottman: "we have suffered enough on Israel's behalf." How did you suffer, Lottman? Did you hurt your arthritic wrist composing anti-Zionist, anti-Peretz antisemitic diatribes?

- arnon

August 18, 2011 at 5:25pm

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

"...Sinai is populated mainly by Beduin. When Israel controlled Sinai from 1967 through 1981, the Beduin were willing to cooperate with Israel on both civil and military affairs. When Egypt took over in 1981, it punished the Beduin for their willingness to work with Israel. Perhaps as a consequence of this, perhaps owing more to regional trends emanating from Saudi Arabia, since the mid-1990s, the Sinai Beduin, like neighboring tribes in the Jordanian desert and, to a degree, their Israeli Beduin brethren, have been undergoing a process of Islamification as the loyalties of more and more tribes have been transferred to regional and global jihadist forces. ..." Caroline Glick's attempt to make sense of the Bedouin in her column today about the broader post-Mubarak Egypt-Sinai-Israel mess. the jpost banner just flashed "22 warplanes take off from SE Turkey", which is either about Syria but more likely the Kurds hiding in Iraq. http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=234386

- K2K

August 18, 2011 at 5:34pm

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

"I am tempted to say that Palestine's declaration/achievement of statehood this fall" I will appreciate it if mlottman, who seems to have some knowledge of the Palestinian narrative and the UN's history vis a vis th ePalestine question, will explain to me how it will be possible for the UN to vote for an Arab state in Palestine, based on the 1947 UN partition revolution without first striking out that resolution? UN resolution 181 divided Palestine into a Jewish and Arab state: two states for two people, one Arab, one Jewish. Based on what the Palestinian FM declares in this vid: http://simplyjews.blogspot.com/2011/08/and-you-still-think-its-all-about... the Palestinians have not accepted that resolution as the basis for their independence. And according to him, never will. How can the UN then endorse a resolution which stands in contradiction to a previous resolution?

- noga1

August 19, 2011 at 11:03am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

Based on what the Palestinian FM declares in this vid: http://simplyjews.blogspot.com/2011/08/and-you-still-think-its-all-about... the Palestinians have not accepted that resolution as the basis for their independence. And according to him, never will. How can the UN then endorse a resolution which stands in contradiction to a previous resolution?

- noga1

August 19, 2011 at 11:03am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

http://simplyjews.blogspot.com/2011/08/and-you-still-think-its-all-about.html

- noga1

August 19, 2011 at 11:05am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

http://www.latma.co.il/latmatv.aspx?listId=5&ItemId=0 hysterical segment on Palestinian Independence.

- K2K

August 23, 2011 at 11:38am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

SHARE HIGHLIGHT

0 CHARACTERS SELECTED

TWEET THIS

POST TO TUMBLR

SHARE ON FACEBOOK

Close