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Go Home The Norway Attacks Reveal the Parallels Between Islamists...

WORLD JULY 25, 2011

The Norway Attacks Reveal the Parallels Between Islamists and Islamophobes

BY KAREN J. GREENBERG

Last week’s heart-breaking massacre of teenagers and others in Norway makes it dismayingly clear that the religious warfare at the heart of Al Qaeda’s crusade against the West and its supporters has now found its mirror-image not in the random act of a deranged lunatic, but in a meticulously planned execution of the anti-Islamic ideology that has been spreading like a poison throughout European political culture for at least a decade. In the name of preserving a Christian Europe, Anders Behring Breivik conducted an ideologically inspired terrorist attack against those he believed were Islamist terrorist sympathizers. In many ways, this latest act of religious hatred, carried out in the name of cultural purity, signals the febrile acceptance of Osama bin Laden’s invitation to reignite the medieval holy war between Islam and the Christian West. 

Breivik’s terrorist attack is only the most stomach-churning byproduct of a European-wide Islamophobia that has progressively taken on more frenzied overtones. A 2010 study conducted at the University of Exeter, and funded by the Al Jazeera Center, documented a dramatic rise in the number of hate crimes against Muslims in the East End of London and elsewhere in the UK. In 2006, the European Monitoring Center on Racism and Xenophobia documented an increasing number of attacks on Muslims throughout Europe—including 180 small attacks in France over a two-year period and sporadic attacks on Muslim mosques and businesses in Germany, Spain, Italy, and elsewhere, often by neo-Nazi or similarly vicious and racist groups.

From Switzerland to Britain, the political pushback against Muslim populations has often occurred at a deceptively urbane level, particularly when it comes to matters of Muslim immigration, mosque-building, and integration. Norway’s Progress Party, to which Breivik belonged between 1999 and 2004, advocates a restrictive immigration policy that is largely acceptable in polite company. But non-violent Islamophobia is anything but house-broken, spewing of late increasingly virulent nationalist, anti-Muslim political rhetoric in Germany, France, Sweden, and elsewhere. 

For example, candidates with xenophobic anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant platforms, such as Holland’s Geert Wilders, the leader of the anti-Islamist Freedom Party, are increasingly popular. The growing strength of right-wing conservative parties in countries such as Hungary, Austria, Sweden, France, and Germany, meanwhile, has been accompanied by the rise of candidates with particularly anti-Islamic platforms. The recent economic downturn, and fears that it may soon worsen, have exacerbated such tendencies. Yet much of the anti-Islamic political rhetoric focuses not on economics, but on the loss of homogeneity, both religious and cultural. This past May, Wilders told an audience assembled at a church in Nashville, Tennessee: “In Europe we have been experiencing Al Hijra [conquest through immigration] for over thirty years now. Many of our cities have changed beyond recognition.” He went on to quote Italian journalist Oriana Fallaci. “In each one of our cities … there is a second city, a state within the state, a government within the government. A Muslim city, a city ruled by the Koran.”

Now that the simmering religious conflict in Europe has burst suddenly into public view in Norway, it is possible that Muslims extremists, skilled at fanning the flames of disenfranchisement and discrimination against immigrant communities, may use Breivik’s attack on the very idea of co-existence in Europe between Muslims and Christians as a pretext for carrying their holy war to a higher level. For Islamists, the preferred form of violent jihad remains the large scale attack—as we saw with the bombings in Madrid in 2005 and London in 2007. For right-wing opponents, prior to the bloodbath in Norway last week, the favored form of attack has been largely personal and small scale. Both Islamists and Islamophobes like Breivik agree, however, that they are engaged in a clash of civilizations on the grounds of religious identity. Members of both groups are willing to commit violence in the name of holy war. They share a return to the medieval context that Osama bin Laden so actively embraced.

Startling corroboration for this coincidence-of-opposites has now been provided by Breivik’s 1,500 page manifesto, “2083: A European Declaration of Independence.” Inspired vaguely by the Knights of Templar, it is as much a throwback to pre-modern times as bin Laden’s cave-dwelling opposition to modernity, integration, and tolerance. In Breivik, the Islamophobic radical right has revealed itself as the opposite side of an increasingly ugly coin.

Karen J. Greenberg is the executive director of the Center on Law and Security at New York University.

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Oslo that bastion of liberalism and acceptance has been shaken with the ugliest of crimes by a suspected deranged individual blond and very Norwegian of their own. Crimes of hatred happen. The question is are those Norwegians that disagree with Oslo,s liberalism invited into the overall dialogue? Are those that advocate violence Moslem, Christian promptly and ascertedly stopped or brought to trial for advocating hatred and violence from their pulpits or publications. We that disagree with providing praise to biggots like Jimmy Carter or terrorist criminals like Yasser Arafat. Or providing a Nobel peace prize before he deserved to Obama. Due conclude that the liberals in Norway are out of control. They have not been fair and honest. These does not condone on my part killings of innocents. But feeble minds like this suspected assassin do not have the capabilities of reason and restrain at the outrageous behavior of the liberals that control the government in Norway. They suppress free discourse they invite violence.

- JAIMECHUCH

July 25, 2011 at 8:48am

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Jaime Chuch: "Due conclude that the liberals in Norway are out of control. They have not been fair and honest. These does not condone on my part killings of innocents. But feeble minds like this suspected assassin do not have the capabilities of reason and restrain at the outrageous behavior of the liberals that control the government in Norway. They suppress free discourse they invite violence." The flower of Norway's social democratic youth are murdered in cold blood and you can "conclude that the liberals in Norway are out of control" and "outrageous behavior of the liberals that control the government in Norway." Sir, you have no decency!

- LawrenceGulotta

July 25, 2011 at 1:56pm

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Ah yes, let's kill all these children in the name of Christ. For only true believers in Jesus understand that his message was one of murdering innocents. These are the same "Christians" who slander Obama with lies, scream for the blood of immigrants, and now control the Tea Party and the Republican Party. Right-wing "Christians" are the children of Nazi ideology. In their ignorant hateful hearts, no different in any way from Osama bin Laden's, all crimes are permitted to "save the nation" or "in the name of the Christian nation." And far more Americans--cops, innocent government workers, immigrants, etc. have been murdered by right-wingers than by all the leftists we're supposed to be so afraid of. What is it about ideology that it breeds such violence?

- bufatutu

July 25, 2011 at 7:09pm

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European multi-culturalism tends to suppress politically incorrect speech. This post is an example. from a more complex analysis at: http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/07/24/3088679/norway-killer-espouse... assuming this is based on post-massacre interviews, this is beyond "fashionable hostility": "...German journalist Ulrich Sahm reported on the pro-Israel Israelnetz.com website that many of the youths who survived the massacre said they thought the killer, dressed as a police officer, was simulating Israeli crimes against Palestinians in the occupied territories. They believed that "the cruelty of the Israeli occupation" was being demonstrated to them, Sahm wrote. ..." [I confess to being stunned by the thought that educated Norwegian teenagers thought this. I kind of hoped that maybe a few Norwegians would realize the threat of this kind of brutal terror-murder is what Israeli Jews live with 24/7. Silly me. It is a Norwegian media company that owns Sweden's Aftonbladet, source of the 2009 blood libel against the IDF] I have been so angry at Norway's support for the palestinians that I offer my Ekornes armchair to anyone who will take it, having decided it too much trouble to burn it in effigy as my protest.

- K2K

July 25, 2011 at 7:21pm

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K2K, Yes, there is lots of antisemitism in Norway. There is a lot wrong with the country, but is this the time to bring it up? The Norwegian kids at the camp didn't deserve to be gunned down by a Nazi. LawrenceGullota was right to upbraid JameChuch, whoever he is, for being tactless and a pain in the ass.

- arnon

July 25, 2011 at 8:29pm

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One of the many problems which Norway is facing: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/world/europe/26police.html?hp=&pagewanted=print

- arnon

July 25, 2011 at 9:02pm

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arnon: I found it incomprehensible that even one well-educated Norwegian teenager even considered what was happening was "that "the cruelty of the Israeli occupation" was being demonstrated to them, Sahm wrote..." What kind of summer camp is that? and, the gunman was not a "Nazi". Lots of nuance in his political agenda - I would say more Nativist Nationalist deranged into destroying the forces that force politically correct multiculturalism onto everyone. Most only think of using violence - sometimes one actually does so. Going 'postal' has no boundaries...

- K2K

July 26, 2011 at 9:45am

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While Oslo Norway has been a cadre of liberalism and acceptance for all, now it shows that there are right wingers that include this deranged suspected killer. Is it possible to have a civilized conversation between all that will help solve the internecine antagonisms? Killing is the ultimate reaction of built hatred and frustration. Is unacceptable to the rest of us. But is going and going and going. When it happens we cry our hearts out. When it happens to innocent victims makes fear the worst of fears. There is too much antagonism all around us. Here Roger Cohen uses the worst of words inn his usual venomous style. He barks like a dog without brains. Roger Cohen brings the worst of the worst. He is typical yellow journalism, reason why the new York times has declined as a newspaper of influence and class. Has Roger Cohen contributed to better relations between leftists and right-wingers, between Jews Christians Moslems Seculars. The answer is an emphatic no. Roger Cohen is the mediocrity of mediocrities. Usually I avoid him like the plague. As a matter of fact I skip the commentators of the new York times. They are most of the time dishonest and superbly biased. This comment will not be posted by the new york times. They have strict censorship for open honest discussion. Their logo is new AllThe News that are biased are fit to print. I am hoping that the new partial owner Carlos Slim, the Mexican libanese super rich, will kick out the Ochs Schulbergers anti-Israel fanatics. Is this comment on-topic, yes. Is this comment abusive, no. Is it honest, yes. The new York times censors obstruct free civilized comments. Sent from my iPad On Jul 26, 2011, at 10:06 AM, chayim kalevzlata wrote: Of course it was not published on the new York times blog. Too honest and to the point. War against the anti-Israel crowd will continue until my last breath. I kid you not. Only a strong Israel and strong defenders will keep us going. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jaime Date: Monday, July 25, 2011 Subject: Norway liberalism and violence To: kalevzlata.chayim@gmail.com, garelj@verizon.net Oslo that bastion of liberalism and acceptance has been shaken with the ugliest of crimes by a suspected deranged individual blond and very Norwegian of their own. Crimes of hatred happen. The question is are those Norwegians that disagree with Oslo,s liberalism invited into the overall dialogue? Are those that advocate violence Moslem, Christian promptly and ascertedly stopped or brought to trial for advocating hatred and violence from their pulpits or publications. We that disagree with providing praise to biggots  like Jimmy Carter or terrorist criminals like Yasser Arafat. Or providing a Nobel peace prize before he deserved to Obama. Due conclude that the liberals in Norway are out of control. They have not been fair and honest. These does not condone on my part killings of innocents. But feeble minds like this suspected assassin do not have the capabilities of reason and restrain at the outrageous behavior of the liberals that control the government in Norway. They suppress free discourse they invite violence. Sent from my iPad

- JAIMECHUCH

July 26, 2011 at 11:03am

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LawrenceGulotta. Decency is to behave under rules of morality and accepted standard of society. Left wingers control Oslo Norway. Actively and dishonestly attack constantly those that disagree with their views. The greatest biggots like Jimmy Carter, and anti-Israel Obama get Nobel peace prizes. Violent terrorist Arafat also got his prize. When Israel was defending against islamo jihadist like Hamas and Hizbullah, some Oslo Norway elite wanted to take away the Nobel peace prize from Shimon Peres. And on and on and on. Yes the extreme left dominates political lives in Oslo Norway. They are a shame of shames. Countless killings of innocent Israelis are never criticized by the extreme leftists controlling Oslo Norway. Now we have the suspected killer labeled as Christian fundamentalist. When islamo jihadists commit crimes galore we have been advised not to use islamo labels. So Lawrence what are you a fool or a brainless extreme leftist, or both. Intolerance of the extreme left will bring counter violence. The extreme left is loosing the battle. Islamophobia is getting stronger and stronger. Lawrence is a natural reaction of defense against unfairness. Use your brains. Think think.

- JAIMECHUCH

July 26, 2011 at 11:21am

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K2K “arnon: I found it incomprehensible that even one well-educated Norwegian teenager even considered what was happening was "that "the cruelty of the Israeli occupation" was being demonstrated to them, Sahm wrote..." What kind of summer camp is that?” Perhaps, but is this the time to start blaming the victims? “..and, the gunman was not a "Nazi". Lots of nuance in his political agenda” K2K, you are just repeating what you have been reading on conservative blogs. Oh yea, lots of “nuance” in his views. He is a Nazi who doesn’t hate homosexuals and thinks that Israel is alright. He also thinks that there is no Jewish problem in Europe because the Nazis took care of that. He also wants to revive the anti-Semitic Knights Templar society who used to torture and burn heretics. Do you know anything about them? Read Walter Scott’s Ivanhoe if you want a portrayal of an evil Templar. He also loves 1984, probably because he identifies with the torturer O’Brien. The world of 1884 is what he wants to recreate. Also, don’t be fooled by his benign view of Israel. Anyone who tries to reach out to Islamicists in order to set two homogenous cultures continually at war with each other, as Anders, does, isn’t going to allow any room for the existence of a small country outside these perpetual warring camps. Unfortunately, I think his "manifesto" will be taken seriously by other Nazis in Europe. ON their websites they already see Anders as an "innocent" martyr who was set up by (you guessed it) "the Jews."

- arnon

July 26, 2011 at 2:51pm

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Jaime, you are just ranting.

- arnon

July 26, 2011 at 2:53pm

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Jaime Chuch: As an American, I pay every April 15th for the defense of Israel. If you don't love the Likud Party, Jabotinski, Revisionism, Greater Israel, then you are a fool. Sorry old boy, that line of reasoning doesn't cut it.

- LawrenceGulotta

July 26, 2011 at 2:57pm

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K2K, that Israel-Palestinian stuff sounds like made-up drivel. I doubt that a teenager who just survived a neofascist mass murder would say something like that w/o it being suggested to him/her first.

- ironyroad

July 26, 2011 at 7:13pm

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Here is a legitimate, responsible and humane conservative response to the massacre from a conservative point of view: "Oslo Killer Posted On My Site" http://www.frumforum.com/oslo-killer-posted-on-my-site

- arnon

July 26, 2011 at 9:03pm

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"I doubt that a teenager who just survived a neofascist mass murder would say something like that w/o it being suggested to him/her first." http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/07/a-crazy-conclusion-out-of-norway/242478/ From the JTA. One hopes this isn't true (h/t H.G) German journalist Ulrich Sahm reported on the pro-Israel Israelnetz.com website that many of the youths who survived the massacre said they thought the killer, dressed as a police officer, was simulating Israeli crimes against Palestinians in the occupied territories. They believed that "the cruelty of the Israeli occupation" was being demonstrated to them, Sahm wrote. UPDATE: Martin Kramer alerted me to these photos, apparently from last year. Take a look. Here are some more, of kids playing "flotilla." _________________ More: http://www.israelwhat.com/2011/07/26/this-unbearable-pain-and-the-work-we-all-have-a-duty-to-do/ There is something very rotten in the state of Norway if people there think that “this evil worm is just like the settlers in Judea and Samaria.” It is a distortion of proper feeling and proper thinking. It cannot be blamed on momentary anger and the need to look for someone to blame only. It comes from a deep seated hatred for the Jewish state of Israel, which has never done nor will ever do anything even close to what European or Arab countries have done and for much less justification.

- noga1

July 26, 2011 at 11:14pm

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Norwegian Ambassador to Israel: About terrorist attacks on innocent civilians: http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART2/263/499.html "ההבדל הוא שהפלסטינים שתוקפים את ישראל באמצעות פיגועים. לא משנה כמה זה לא מקובל ונורא, הם עושים זאת במטרה מוגדרת הקשורה בכיבוש הישראלי. יש שם יסודות של נקמה בישראל ושנאה לישראל. לזה אפשר להוסיף את האלמנט הדתי בפעולותיהם. בכל מקרה יש מוטיב עיקרי למעשים שלהם. The difference is that Palestinians are attacking Israel through the means of terrorist actions. Never mind how unacceptable or terrible it is, they are doing this with a defined goal that is related to the Israeli occupation. There are elements of revenge against Israel and hatred of Israel. To this you can add the religious dimension to their actions. In any case, there is a principle motive to their actions. (Translation: Camera) "במקרה של הפיגוע בנורבגיה יש לרוצח אידיאולוגיה שאומרת שנורבגיה, ובמיוחד מפלגת הלייבור, מוותרת על התרבות הנורבגית. אני יכול להעיר שאם האיש הזה נגד הגירה ונגד מוסלמים, זה מדהים שהוא לא הרג מוסלמים אלא פוליטיקאים נורבגים, ומנסה להרוס את האדמינסטריציה בנורבגיה In the case of the attack in Norway the murderer's ideology maintains that Norway, and especially the Labour party, is selling out Norway and its culture. I can comment that if this man is against immigration and Muslims, it is amazing that he did not kill Muslims but Norwegian politicians, and is trying to destroy the Norwegian administration. (Translation: noga) Contentious Interpretation: We shouldn't beat about the bush. The bottom line is you Israelis, deserve it. We, Norwegians, do not.

- noga1

July 26, 2011 at 11:17pm

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thanks noga - nice to know Goldblog is as stunned as I am. Below is the URL to Sahm's original post, in German. The day before the tragic massacre, Utoya Camp held a panel on Palestinian Statehood and the Israel Boycott, featuring Norway's Foreign Minister. I guess some of the survivors still had Israel-Palestine on their minds when Breivik showed up in police uniform. Silly me for thinking a political summer camp for Norwegian teenagers in 2011 would have a panel discussion on "How to Mitigate Drought/Famine in Somalia" or "Why is Norway a member of NATO and bombing Libya?" or " How can Norway help resolve the Pakistan-India Border Dispute in Kashmir?" you can use google-translate for English: http://www.israelnetz.com/themen/nachrichten/artikel-nachrichten/datum/2011/07/24/oslo-simulation-der-graeuel-israels/

- K2K

July 27, 2011 at 10:18am

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yeah arnon - when will you stop falsely accusing me of only reading conservative blogs? Most of what I know about the Utoya massacre and Breivik has come from the BBC and CNN. Just happened to find Sahm's post at Israelnationalnews.com that showed up at news.google.com because I was trying to find out if Norway's government had accepted Israel's offer of counter-terrorism assistance. No, Norway did not accept IDM Ehud Barak's offer. unlike British Colonel Richard "Kemp has also claimed to have relied on Israeli expertise in Afghanistan, stating that after finding himself unable to deal with the threat of suicide bombers, he received help from an Israel Defense Forces (IDF) anti-suicide bombing expert. He also claimed to have received help from the Mossad, Israel's intelligence agency, following the 2005 London bombings, and is well-acquainted with Israeli intelligence from past cooperation." from wiki Richard_Kemp

- K2K

July 27, 2011 at 10:34am

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K2K “yeah arnon - when will you stop falsely accusing me of only reading conservative blogs?” When you stop posting comments almost identical to those found in these blogs.

- arnon

July 27, 2011 at 1:13pm

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Basman are you still here?

- arnon

July 27, 2011 at 1:13pm

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Christopher Hitchens weighs in: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/07/26/christopher-hitchens-why-did-so-many-experts-blame-islamic-terrorists/#Comments "Pushed to its logical or pathological conclusion, this would involve something that Europeans and Americans have never seen before: a conflict between different forms of fascism in order to see which assault on multi-ethnic democracy was the most effective." In this he appears to be in agreement with Bret Stephens who wrote: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903591104576467773477916948.html "In a superb new book, "Heaven on Earth: The Varieties of Millennial Experience," Boston University's Richard Landes notes just how pervasive this kind of impulse has been throughout history and across cultures, and how much its many strains—Christian, Marxist, Islamist, Nazi, environmentalist and so on—have in common. Breivik, Mr. Landes says, was of a piece: "Like many active cataclysmic apocalypticists, he believed that the socio-political world is in huge tension, like tectonic plates about to crack, and if he can set off a small explosion in the right place it will unleash far greater forces." In this sense, Mr. Landes adds, "the thing he resembles most is the people he hates." He's right, and not just in regards to methods. Just as al Qaeda's primary fury has always been directed at Muslims who they view as apostates, traitors or stooges of the West, the main object of Breivik's hatred was what he called the "cultural Marxists" who dominated Norwegian politics. "If they refuse to surrender until 2020," he said of them, "there will be no turning back. We will eventually wipe out every single one of them." And, if I understand these two correctly, they would both agree with these two philosophers: From Bertrand Russell's "Mortals and others": "The moral of this story is that believers in every kind of ‘ism’ ought to hang together, however opposite their nostrums may be. They differ from ordinary people by the fact that they have a nostrum. One man’s nostrum is only endurable to the ordinary person when it is counterbalanced by another man’s nostrum. If the believers in any one ‘ism’ could convert the believers in all other ‘isms’ to their way of thinking the general run of mankind would find them so boring that they would exterminate them. This applies to the believers in optimism no less than it applies to the believers in pessimism. The pessimism of our age is generally explained as being due to the bad state of the world, but I believe it is quite as much due to the boredom, which we all endured in youth through the optimism of the Victorians." From Roger Scruton's "The Uses of pessimism": "The worst are precisely those who wish to sweep away the settled community of strangers, and to impose in its place either a divinely ordered 'brotherhood', or the conscripted unity of a society at war. The best are those who are no more convinced about anything, than they are convinced that convictions should not matter. Robespierre, Lenin, Hitler, Sartre, Mao and Bin Laden do not share many features. But they are united in one thing, which is the 'passionate intensity' that comes from demanding conviction and unity in the place of settlement and doubt."

- noga1

July 27, 2011 at 3:44pm

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Oh, btw, K2K, I trust you are duly chastised by arnon's snub. I know I would be crushed by it.

- noga1

July 27, 2011 at 3:53pm

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K2K: "Below is the URL to Sahm's original post, in German. The day before the tragic massacre, Utoya Camp held a panel on Palestinian Statehood and the Israel Boycott, featuring Norway's Foreign Minister." Sahm's post makes it pretty clear that he's relying on third-hand information. But if that, and the panel on Palestinian statehood, makes you feel better about the massacre, go for it. Personally, I'm waiting for Peretz's exegesis on how the Norwegians got what they deservedd.

- SMacEachern2

July 27, 2011 at 5:30pm

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"I'm waiting for Peretz's exegesis on how the Norwegians got what they deservedd." Isn't that ironic? I'd like to re-post this comment: Norwegian Ambassador to Israel: About terrorist attacks on innocent civilians: http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART2/263/499.html "ההבדל הוא שהפלסטינים שתוקפים את ישראל באמצעות פיגועים. לא משנה כמה זה לא מקובל ונורא, הם עושים זאת במטרה מוגדרת הקשורה בכיבוש הישראלי. יש שם יסודות של נקמה בישראל ושנאה לישראל. לזה אפשר להוסיף את האלמנט הדתי בפעולותיהם. בכל מקרה יש מוטיב עיקרי למעשים שלהם. The difference is that Palestinians are attacking Israel through the means of terrorist actions. Never mind how unacceptable or terrible it is, they are doing this with a defined goal that is related to the Israeli occupation. There are elements of revenge against Israel and hatred of Israel. To this you can add the religious dimension to their actions. In any case, there is a principle motive to their actions. (Translation: Camera) "במקרה של הפיגוע בנורבגיה יש לרוצח אידיאולוגיה שאומרת שנורבגיה, ובמיוחד מפלגת הלייבור, מוותרת על התרבות הנורבגית. אני יכול להעיר שאם האיש הזה נגד הגירה ונגד מוסלמים, זה מדהים שהוא לא הרג מוסלמים אלא פוליטיקאים נורבגים, ומנסה להרוס את האדמינסטריציה בנורבגיה In the case of the attack in Norway the murderer's ideology maintains that Norway, and especially the Labour party, is selling out Norway and its culture. I can comment that if this man is against immigration and Muslims, it is amazing that he did not kill Muslims but Norwegian politicians, and is trying to destroy the Norwegian administration. (Translation: noga) Contentious Interpretation: We shouldn't beat about the bush. The bottom line is you Israelis, deserve it. We, Norwegians, do not.

- noga1

July 27, 2011 at 5:44pm

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Israeli journalist, Ben-Dror Yemini: "... Anyone who seeks to justify murder, massacres, terror, is complicit in the crime. It is permissible to criticize immigration policies but there cannot be any connection between criticism of immigration and massacres. And even if most crimes and rapes are done by immigrants it doesn’t follow that all immigrants are criminals and rapists. The problem is that we are accustomed to exactly this type of routine rhetoric. A rhetoric that shows understanding towards terror becomes, in due course, a justification, not just rhetoric. It’s hard to forget the flotillas and the routine marches of the red-green alliance: Radicals from the Left and Islamist jihadists, in lock-step. Those who criticize multiculturalism do not march with terrorists or try to find justifications for massacres. The Left radicals, however, are on the side of Hamas. Vive la petite différence. "

- noga1

July 27, 2011 at 5:50pm

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noga: arnon's "latest snub"? at 1:13 pm? "When you stop posting comments almost identical to those found in these blogs." well noga, I guess arnon reads all sorts of conservative blogs and it must be a fault line of pure coincidence in the universe if he finds my comments at TNR "almost identical". maybe arnon thinks TNR is a conservative blog. as for me, thanks for your 3:34 pm comment - I do read Bret Stephens, but never read actual philsophers. as you know, I am currently engaged in World War One spy thrillers by John Buchan, and season 9 of MI-5, now on dvd. Episode 5 is quite a tongue-in-cheek thriller on secret Israel-Palestinian peace talks in London. One twist is the Lebanese terrorist trying to stop the Syrian sniper from assassinating the American President, but the moderate Palestinian negotiator is the one who gets shot (not fatal to him or his sense of irony). Apparently, if I am not a staunch defender of post-modern, transnational multiculturalism, and indeed, dare to criticize that fad, that makes me a conservative. Gosh, I feel like singing the Star Spangled Banner. oops - did that yesterday while watching the History Channel's two hour special on the American-British War of 1812 - when the Star Spangled Banner was written. bombs bursting in air, but our flag was still there, so very politically incorrect...

- K2K

July 27, 2011 at 5:56pm

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Since I have been boycotting Made in Norway since August 2009 (anyone want an Ekornes armchair from 2000?), I have no more emotion for the tragic massacre on Otoya Island than I do when bullet trains tragically crash in China. Stuff happens. People die. Really strange that Oslo police only have one small helipcopter and the crew was all on vacation. Bet the New York City Police Dept is scratching their head on that one. well, back to Buchan's 1924 "The Three Hostages" where hero Hannay is on his way to...Norway!

- K2K

July 27, 2011 at 6:05pm

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"I'm waiting for Peretz's exegesis on how the Norwegians got what they deservedd." SMacEachern2 Not likely, though there have been many Israel haters like the Jews obsessed Juan Cole who seem sorry that what happened in Norway didn't happen in Israel. He wouldn't say so directly but his tone of regret in this elliptical comment says it all: "In fact, the Europeans actually did do to the Palestinians in British Mandate Palestine exactly what Breivik bizarrely fears Muslims will do to Norwegians in Norway, and most Palestinians haven’t even replied with violence." http://www.juancole.com/2011/07/the-irrelevance-of-the-knights-in-a-global-society.html Saying most Palestinians didn't reply with violence is like saying most Germans didn't exterminate Jews. No, most didn't, but they supported and support those who did and do.

- arnon

July 27, 2011 at 6:22pm

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K2K: You shouldn't let arnon's comments upset you. I would quote Bertrand Russell on the subject of who irritates us but I fear it might be too much Bertrand Russell for one little thread, and off topic. Oh, what the hell. I'll quote him anyway: "THere are many ways in which [people] may be irritating, but one of the worst ways (to my way of thinking) is that of classifying everybody with some obvious label. People who have this unfortunate habit think that they have complete knowledge of a man or a woman when they have pinned on the tag that they consider appropriate. This is, I think, a predominantly feminine vice and belongs more particularly to women who entertain a great deal."

- noga1

July 27, 2011 at 6:26pm

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"I'm waiting for Peretz's exegesis on how the Norwegians got what they deservedd." SMacEachern2 Not likely, though there have been many Israel haters like the Jews obsessed Juan Cole who seem sorry that what happened in Norway didn't happen in Israel. He wouldn't say so directly but his tone of regret in this elliptical comment says it all: "In fact, the Europeans actually did do to the Palestinians in British Mandate Palestine exactly what Breivik bizarrely fears Muslims will do to Norwegians in Norway, and most Palestinians haven’t even replied with violence." No most didn't but this is like saying that most Germans didn't gas Jews. Most didn't but they supported those who did. Same here most Palestinians didn't but they supported and support those who do.

- arnon

July 27, 2011 at 6:26pm

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Here is a stunning story of Norwegian police incompetence: "Norway launches probe into massacre response" http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-28/norway-pm-announces-probe/2813468/?site=melbourne "More embarrassment had earlier been heaped on the police by the father of two teenagers on Utoya, who claimed that he was told to "Get your children to call us themselves" when he tried to alert police to the shooting. After receiving an alarming call from his daughter, Geir Johnsen rang police but said he was met with a wall of incredulity. "What happened is that I was absolutely not believed when I explained what my daughter on Utoya had told me. I was told if that was the case, the children had only to call the police themselves, even when I begged them to take me seriously," he told the local newspaper Fremover. Freddy Lie, who lost a daughter on Utoya, also said police had not believed him when he reported the shooting on the island. Officers had told him that "it's in Oslo that it's all going on" when he reported the shooting after one of his daughters raised the alarm." The powers that be in Norway are both arrogant and incompetent. Some the families of the dead children should sue them for negligence. Can ordinary people sue the government in Norway? I guess when you live in a utopia you don't have to worry about police protection.

- arnon

July 27, 2011 at 6:33pm

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I doubt SMacEachern2 needs an introduction to Juan Cole's rancid positions on Israel.

- noga1

July 27, 2011 at 6:40pm

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6:26pm EDT | noga1: that Bertrand Russell quote is so funny "more particularly to women who entertain a great deal" still laughing at the irony of that insight, whilst admitting I have never been to such fashionable dinner parties. I really need a break from the news. on my 12th day of high speed, now understand the value of YouTube videos of kittens riding roombas...and Budweiser commercials. arnon: not that you value my response, but I do not think it is Norwegian police incompetence as much as the apparent reality that they just could not comprehend such a violent, deliberate, coldblooded shooting massacre on Otoya. I imagine most Europeans consider such a mass murder tragedy can only happen in gun-loving red-state America. I await seeing Texas Governor Rick Perry at a debate podium, with his pistol at his side (just kidding - but he does carry whilst jogging. shot a coyote that threatened his dog.)

- K2K

July 27, 2011 at 7:08pm

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More in the same Colistic vein, reported here: http://mideastparalleluniverse.blogspot.com/2011/07/complexities-and-contradictions-of.html "Here is Alex Kane, a 20-something pischer who blogs at Mondoweiss occasionally: “An examination of Breivik's views, and his support for far-right European political movements, makes it clear that only by interrogating the nexus of Islamophobia and right-wing Zionism can one understand the political beliefs behind the terrorist attack.” (FYI, I don't link to Mondoweiss. You can find it on your own.) And here is Ellie Merton, Chair of Waltham Forest (London) Palestine Solidarity Campaign: “As far as I can see, globally, christian far right white supremacists work hand in hand with zionist fascists, since their aims are mutually inclusive.” And the breathtaking moral hypocrisy of author Henning Mankell exposed here: http://cifwatch.com/2011/07/25/cif-henning-mankell-and-the-audacity-of-evil/ "He also just penned an essay at CiF today (Norway attacks: Anders Behring Breivik will join history’s human monsters, July 25) on Norway’s terrorist attack which, in the context of asking why Anders Behring Breivik, the 32-year-old Norwegian, killed over 90 people, cites Adolf Eichmann, “the Nazi camp commander” who, along with Hitler, “thought [Jews] should be removed from the face of the earth” – and likens Breivik’s hate to what Hannah Arendt characterized as “the banality of evil.” No, I’m not surprised that such a radical anti-Israel activist would leverage the horrific terrorist act of one lone right-wing extremist to score political points against his enemies, but the breathtaking audacity of a public figure like Mankell, who simultaneously calls, in the name of justice, for the end of the modern Jewish state, while evoking the slaughter of six million Jews to condemn the violence of a lone terrorist, represents the nadir of moral hypocrisy."

- noga1

July 27, 2011 at 7:18pm

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Entirely expectable to see Peretz's acolytes trying to deflect attention from what happened in Norway.... arnon and noga1 make a ritualistic nod to feeling bad about it, but K2K is at least honest : "I have no more emotion for the tragic massacre on Otoya Island than I do when bullet trains tragically crash in China. Stuff happens. People die." and blaming "...the forces that force politically correct multiculturalism onto everyone..." for driving Breivik mad. He disapproves of the political fallout, not the outcome. So, my apologies: your posts aren't directed toward making yourself feel better about the massacre. You're quite content with it as it is.

- SMacEachern2

July 27, 2011 at 7:32pm

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"So, my apologies: your posts aren't directed toward making yourself feel better about the massacre. You're quite content with it as it is." http://www.zionismontheweb.org/antisemitism/EU-definition-of-antisemitism.htm "The EU's Definition of Antisemitism The purpose of this document is to provide a practical guide for identifying incidents, collecting data, and supporting the implementation and enforcement of legislation dealing with antisemitism. Working definition: ``Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non­Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.'' In addition, such manifestations could also target the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for ``why things go wrong.'' It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits. Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to: [-] Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective ... Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non­Jews. ... "

- noga1

July 27, 2011 at 8:02pm

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SMacEachern2 "Entirely expectable to see Peretz's acolytes trying to deflect attention from what happened in Norway...." Fuck you, Mac. Predictable antisemitic trash from the BIG MAC.

- arnon

July 27, 2011 at 8:25pm

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This from a post on Harry's Place: "Like a Fascist, or Communist, or an Earth First!er, or a Jihadist, Breivik is first and foremost a millenarian." Sounds right to me. Read "Heaven on Earth: The Varieties of the Millennial Experience" http://www.amazon.com/Heaven-Earth-Varieties-Millennial-Experience/dp/0199753598/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1311713016&sr=1-5

- arnon

July 27, 2011 at 9:58pm

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http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110727-norway-lessons-successful-lone-wolf-attacker?utm_source=freelist-f&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20110728&utm_term=sweekly&utm_content=readmore&elq=6abec1e1409c42f99524ac815867eb3d "Norway: Lessons from a Successful Lone Wolf Attacker" | STRATFOR "...From reading his manifesto, it is clear that Breivik, much like Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh, believes that his attack is the opening salvo in a wider campaign, in this case to liberate Europeans from what Breivik views as malevolent, Marxist-oriented governments. These beliefs are what drove Breivik to attack the Norwegian Labor Party. As noted above, it is also clear that Breivik planned and executed his attack alone. However, he also discusses how he was radicalized and influenced by a Serbian living in Liberia whom he visited there. And Breivik claims to have attended a meeting in London in 2002 to “re-found the Knights Templar.” This organization, PCCTS, which was founded in 2002, is not related to the much older official and public chivalric order also known as the Knights Templar. According to Breivik, the PCCTS was formed with the stated purpose of fighting back against “European Jihad” and to defend the “free indigenous peoples of Europe.” To achieve this goal, the PCCTS would implement a three-phase plan designed to seize political and military power in Europe. In his manifesto Breivik outlines the plan as follows: Phase 1 (1999-2030): Cell-based shock attacks, sabotage attacks, etc. Phase 2 (2030-2070): Same as above but bigger cells/networks, armed militias. Phase 3 (2070-2100): Pan-European coup d’etats, deportation of Muslims and execution of traitors. As outlined in Breivik’s manifesto, the 2002 meeting was attended by seven other individuals, two from England and one each from France, Germany, the Netherlands, Greece and Russia..."

- K2K

July 28, 2011 at 10:00am

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http://www.youtube.com/user/patcondell#p/u/18/zZtc2ma2GEQ "Goodbye Sweden" Pat Condell on Sweden amending their Constitution to enshrine multi-culturalism. from December 1, 2010.

- K2K

July 28, 2011 at 10:03am

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