The New Republic

Now, now, Marty... you should be aware of some currents beneath the Le Monde-Liberation surface. First, Sarko's got an excellent chance of gaining the Elysee, and he makes no secret of his admiration for the US and devotion to a no-BS tough stance against the islamists and the death cultists. Hard to see him playing the same kinds of Villepinesque games we're accustomed to. Second, the 1968ers' influence doesn't carry much weight with the Google generation, which brought the EU constitution train to a halt last year. Liberation's about to shut down for lack of readers ("they're all dying out", acc to one editor). As their behavior and rhetoric in the EU debate showed, these Frenchmen are much more pro-US than their elders, and may turn out to be more anti-jihadist too.

- teplukhin

September 26, 2006 at 6:19pm

I'm glad the Mouton Rothschild, etc. didn't go to waste! And if you drink the wine at dinner parties, the women's dress is most definitely influenced by Chanel and the food, whatever its trendiness, by the French. C'est pas rien, enfin. When it comes to its politics, I'm reminded of a Moynihan phrase (inappropriately used at the time): Benign neglect. When it comes to Bush's summer reading, you'd have to believe it to take it seriously. Camus was dashing. But Action Gratuit was born in the bones of WW 2 children. When it comes to French anti-Semitism, why did you buy French wines in the first place? It's always been there.

- Nancy Kirk

September 26, 2006 at 6:47pm

I'll certainly remember these wonderful ripostes the next time those pusillanimous Parisians suggest that occupying Iraq or starting a war against Hezbollah might not be such a good idea. History has certainly put them in their place!

- hschrader

September 26, 2006 at 6:54pm

...by boycotting French wine. The quality's all over the map, it's all overpriced, and even the famous houses put out a lot of junk. btw, now the picture's even more confused, with all manner of little garageistes bending over backwards to impress Robert Parker with California-style less tannic heavily fruity wines. Another example of how a pro-Americanism among the young lurks beneath the supposedly anti-Americanism of the elite culture.

- teplukhin

September 26, 2006 at 6:57pm

"When The New Republic was founded in 1914, its mission was to provide its readers with an intelligent, stimulating and rigorous examination of American politics, foreign policy and culture. It has brilliantly maintained its mission for ninety years." In the spirit of balance, I think Mr. Peretz should post a few cheap pot-shots at America. "America: a country that considers George W. Bush worthy of its highest office."

- huntlib

September 26, 2006 at 8:37pm

Indeed. Amusing as it may be to mock the French for their Frenchness, our country would be a lot better off if we'd listened to those cheese-eaters about the time most of these jokes were made. Mr. Peretz, a while ago I was forwarded an email about how men are like a chocolate bar. I have no idea how accurate it is, but judging by the FW:FW's in the subject line, a lot of people found it amusing. If you want to post it on TNR let me know.

- aculimic

September 26, 2006 at 8:47pm

of the lame forward?! Next up, jokes about how men are crude and women are pains in the ass. Or maybe we can learn if we're rednecks? Pretty please? Seriously, though, I'm working on my list of jokes about how Jews are wimpy (I mean physically, of course, and not including those Israeli bad-ass types), which, while no doubt silly, nonetheless reflect at some level the wisdom of the ages. You may be annoyed with it if you're a Jew-phile, and I'm no a Jew-phobe. However, I did stop drinking Jewish wine when I was 11.

- jhildner

September 26, 2006 at 9:00pm

who supported the war in Iraq feel entitled to poke fun at any nation that refrained from joining in that folly? Is this not the immature behavior of an ill-tempered child? Yes, the jokes are funny - but in this context, posting them is pathetic. ,

- purcellneil

September 26, 2006 at 11:09pm

TNR is starting the creep back to Freedom Fries and Idiocy Watch...are we that close to invading Iran?

- MrCookie1

September 26, 2006 at 11:20pm

However, I could live without Patton's quip: "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." --General George S. Patton He didn't much like Jews either and his comments and behavior towards the recently freed Jews of the concentration camps would make Goebbels proud.

- jacksondyer

September 27, 2006 at 12:27am

- primwallflow

September 27, 2006 at 3:36am

...but in all fairness, in response to these humorous reasons to despise the French, here are some serious reasons for Americans to admire them: Lafayette Entering the American Revolution De Tocqueville L'Enfant's plan for DC The Statue of Liberty Their knack for discovering & appreciating great American art (jazz, film) before Americans do. New Orleans Anything I missed?

- primwallflow

September 27, 2006 at 3:41am

I wonder how Patton would have felt at Yorktown, since it was French troops and the French Fleet that beat the British there.

- devdesa

September 27, 2006 at 8:21am

Let's consider that most of those jokes were told during the prelude to the Iraq war. Who's laughing now? Mr. Peretz, you're an asshole.

- devdesa

September 27, 2006 at 8:25am

I am a tad uncomfortable with devdesa's rather aggressive, somewhat flowery phraseology, I do recall that the aforementioned "Idiocy Watch" was a TNR creation circa 2001-2003 that was designed specifically to drown out any criticism of the march to this Iraq folly, a leap of faith that had TNR stripped down to their birthday suits and panting to take the plunge. So, while the French may be irritating creme puffs, the question, for Bush, his deluded neocon mentors and the Fellow Travelers at TNR is, four long and horrendous years later: Just who are the idiots now?

- MrCookie1

September 27, 2006 at 9:30am

are the jokes funny? Yes, most of them. I am tired of all the hypersensitivity from people who are not even French. What do you call someone who speaks 3 or more languages? Multilingual What do you call someone who speaks 2 languages? Bilingual What do you call someone who speaks only one language? American What do you call someone who can not even speak one language well? President of the US. The French, like the British and the Irish, are essentially like our cousins, if you can't bust on family than you can't bust on anyone. A little bit of mindless humor is a good way to start a day.

- blackton

September 27, 2006 at 11:36am

these are just jokes ...but they do capture something essential about the French. Re France's opposition to the war in Iraq, their motives were anything but high-minded. They were up to their necks in the UN oil-for-food fraud, had signed oil contracts with Saddam, and, in general, their whole attitude towards ME is appeasement of the Arabs. Then their latest spectacle at the UNSC where they first pushed (together with us) a proposal for cease-fire in Lebanon that included their leading of the UN separation force, but, when it reached, immediately proceeded to weasel out of their commitment. "Raise your right hand if you like French..."

- sabaka

September 27, 2006 at 11:36am

MrCookie- While I agree with you that TNR's support for the Joint Resolution on Iraq (and the war itself) is one of the great, undying shames in the magazine's history, I have to diagree with you about the genesis of Idiocy Watch. As I recall, Idiocy Watch came about in the wake of 9/11 and was focused on those who said wild, brutal, or foolish things about the collapse of the towers, or al Qaeda. Here's an early example: NOTEBOOK Idiocy Watch Cont'd Post date 02.22.02 | Issue date 03.04.02 Printer friendly E-mail this article "I had not the slightest emotional reaction [to watching one of the World Trade Center Towers collapse]. I thought: 'This is a really strange art project.' ... It was a most amazing sight in terms of sheer elegance. It fell like water. It just slid, like a turtleneck going over someone's head.... It was just beautiful. You can't tell people this. I'm talking to you because you're Canadian.... I just felt, like, everyone was overreacting. People were going on about it. That part really annoyed me." --Elizabeth Wurtzel, author of Prozac Nation and Bitch, interviewed in Toronto's The Globe and Mail, February 16

- JosephCuomo

September 27, 2006 at 11:46am

And here's another early Idiocy Watch, MrCookie: NOTEBOOK Idiocy Watch Post date 07.17.02 | Issue date 07.22.02 Printer friendly E-mail this article "On the eve of our great national birthday party and in the aftermath of Sept. 11, when millions of us turned to God and prayed for forgiveness of individual and corporate sins and asked for His protection against future attacks, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco has inflicted on this nation what many will conclude is a greater injury than that caused by the terrorists." --columnist Cal Thomas, responding to the court's ruling on the Pledge of Allegiance, June 28

- JosephCuomo

September 27, 2006 at 11:47am

Yes, you're correct that early on, Idiocy Watch was a showcase for bizarre assessments of 9/11, not disagreement there but as it unfolded, my memory -which could be faulty I admit - was that it expanded to include critics of the Iraq resolution. And if memory serves me, the ratio of liberal "idiot" comments v conservative "idiot" comment was weighted heavily on the former, not the latter. Not that there wasn't an occasional Cal Thomas or Pat Robertson nugget included.

- MrCookie1

September 27, 2006 at 1:20pm

Come on now, you are better than this!

- sherifkmoussa

September 27, 2006 at 1:25pm

should the Marseillaise always be sung as Gainsbourg did? teplukhin, i'm a little bit less optimistic about Sarko's chances. Is his assault on Bobigny a grandstanding attempt to paint himself as a toughguy to the rabble at the expense of the very institutions that he would need in the future? So far he just looks like an insulting wretch who's picking on overworked public servants and looking to make as many ennemies as he can-- his language doesn't even make him look principled. I can't find a single friend, aquaintance, former lover, colleague or household pet who finds him even remotely appealing. Disclosure : i can count my contacts with the French business world on my two hands without needing my toes. sorry. What 'sondages' have you been looking at? I'd love to take a look if you have the time to post some addresses. Do they include the field with Jospin crowding out Segolene Royal? (read in Le Monde that that old codger is putting his ducks in a row! ouf!) Anyway, these jokes are about as funny as any other Pole, Jew, Black, retard, pets in the microwave or blonde jokes. Which is to say, not very. Sorry Marty. What happened to the sabbath meditations that brought you to such a great intellectual place? This type of animus does not suit you, and I recommend you leave your 'fiel' for the 'trous de cul' who really deserve it. How's that for using 10 dollar French words?

- acgraves

September 27, 2006 at 1:31pm

MrCookie- Yes, you may be right that Idiocy Watch evolved, or devolved, into a castigation of critics of the Iraq war. But I simply have no memory of this. Does anyone out there have any examples of an anti-anti-Iraq war Idiocy Watch or two? As for the attacks being more frequently focused on the left, rather than the right, again, as I recall, the attacks early on were somewhat fair and balanced (so to speak), but you may be right, MrCookie, that once they turned their sights on critics of the Iraq war, the left may have wound up more frequently in the crosshairs.

- JosephCuomo

September 27, 2006 at 2:50pm

Sure, these jokes rely on stereotypes. Since when is stereotyping disallowed in humor? Humor's ability to offend is perhaps its greatest contribution to the rapidly shrinking sea of humility that once slaked the thirst of our collective unconscious, which, like the planet, we are unfortunately overheating. When we start disallowing something in humor then, as the expression goes, "the terrorists have won." Nothing should be disallowed in humor. Choose if you must not to laugh, but censor at your, and our, peril.

- williamyard

September 27, 2006 at 2:56pm

The sad thing is that with so many subscribers having left the ship, I bet that most folks have no idea what we're talking about when we discuss 'Idiocy Watch". My suspicion is that they're probably thinking we're the idiots! If I had to remember one particularly foul "Idiocy Watch" it was the one on Richard Gere. I remember he said something very Dalia Lama-ish about 9/11 and whomever was writing that at that time - can Lee Siegel account for his whereabouts during this time - just tore the dopey actor a new one. (without the aid of the legendary gerbil...)

- MrCookie1

September 27, 2006 at 2:57pm

it seems to be somewhat contradictory to tear George Allen a new one for his tasteless racist joke on the one hand and then turn around and berate an entire people by equating them with their government. (which, if you'll allow me to say so, might not be appreciated by some around here given the current administration). In the spirit of tit for tat, I shall share a French joke about Americans: Q: What is the difference between a yogurt and an American? A: A least the yogurt has culture! I would wager that little joke has absolutely no truth when it comes to the group on this website. Stereotyping can be stupid, and can abuse truth to the point of obscuring clear thinking.

- acgraves

September 27, 2006 at 3:29pm

You may be right, MrCookie, we may be among the few remaining subscribers from the old days, and, yes, there may not be many out there now who have any idea what Idiocy Watch is (or was). It's odd, but it seems that TNR may have erased all of the earlier installments. I still have the URLs for these, but they don't link up to anything any more. But I was able to locate a few of the earliest examples through other sources, including what may very well be the first installment of Idiocy Watch, from October 10, 2002: "Idiocy Watch" (The New Republic, 2001/10/02) The first installment of "the dumbest and most outrageous comments made about America's war on terrorism": "'America, America. What did you do - either intentionally or unintentionally - in the world order, in Central America, in Africa where bombs are still blasting? America, what did you do in the global warming conference when you did not embrace the smaller nations? America, what did you do two weeks ago when I stood at the world conference on racism, when you wouldn't show up? Oh, America, what did you do' - Former San Francisco Supervisor Amos Brown, speaking at a memorial service for the victims on September 17." Here's another: "Idiocy Watch" (The New Republic, 2001/10/05) Another installment of "the dumbest, most outrageous comments made about the terrorist attacks on America and our response": "'But the people, the American nation that Bush is invoking, is a people which is bloodthirsty, vengeful and calling for blood. They don't care whose blood it is, they want blood.... There will be no emancipation for women anywhere on this planet until the Western domination of this planet is ended.' - Sunera Thobani, professor at the University of British Columbia, speaking at a feminist conference in Ottawa, October 1." And one more: "Idiocy Watch #9" (The New Republic, 2001/11/01) It never stops, does it? The ninth installment of "all the dumb and outrageous things being said and written about America and the terrorists": "Someone asked a question about pure evil, citing the terrorist attacks on America as an example. With great presence, [Ruth] Rendell replied that we could not categorise such attacks as evil, since they were carried out from the highest motives and in the name of freedom. The audience hated this reply - there was a collective and audible shudder. Yet who reading Bin Laden's speeches can doubt it? There is no cynicism in the man - he has never heard of a spin doctor.... We need not sympathise with him to recognise a gulf between the pragmatic concerns of the west and the fervent beliefs of the east. How to bridge east and west is the question - and bombs are not the answer." - Jeanette Winterson, The Guardian, October 16."

- JosephCuomo

September 27, 2006 at 4:18pm

Have you heard this classic? What do you call someone who can speak 3 languages? Trilingual. What do you call someone who can speak 2 languages? Bilingual. What do you call someone who can only speak 1 language? An American...

- MrCookie1

September 27, 2006 at 4:19pm

I remember those! Can you find the Richard Gere one?

- MrCookie1

September 27, 2006 at 4:20pm

And (I'm sorry, I couldn't resist) yet one more: Notebook New Republic Monday, November 12, 2001 "A few weeks ago, Americans witnessed the enormous devastation that a small handful of fanatically committed individuals can wreak upon society. Perhaps it is now time for ordinary Americans to be willing to take a stand against those similarly tiny groups of educational terrorists in our midst [i.e., advocates of bilingual education], whose disastrous policies are enforced upon us not by bombs or even by knives, but simply by their high- pitched voices."---Ron Unz, chairman of English for the Children, National Review Online, October 26

- JosephCuomo

September 27, 2006 at 4:25pm

Yes, MrCookie, I just did locate the Gere one: "'In a situation like this, of course you identify with everyone who's suffering. [But we must also think about] the terrorists who are creating such horrible future lives for themselves because of the negativity of this karma. It's all of our jobs too keep our minds as expansive as possible. If you can see [the terrorists] as a relative who's dangerously sick and we have to give them medicine, and the medicine is love and compassion. There's nothing better.' - Richard Gere, in an interview with ABCNEWS Radio, October 10" ("Idiocy Watch #4" (The New Republic, 2001/10/15))

- JosephCuomo

September 27, 2006 at 4:28pm

MrCookie, do you remember a contest that TNR held some time back? Readers were invited to vote for their favorite installment of Idiocy Watch. But I can't remember who won. . .

- JosephCuomo

September 27, 2006 at 4:34pm

I think Lee Siegel may have won that one, under an alias...

- MrCookie1

September 27, 2006 at 4:35pm

Among all the early installments I was able to locate, here (after the fact) is my nominee: German composer Karlheinz Stockhausen talking about the collapse of the towers. "'That characters can bring about in one act what we in music cannot dream of, that people practice madly for 10 years, completely, fanatically, for a concert and then die. That is the greatest work of art for the whole cosmos. ... It's a crime because those involved didn't consent. They didn't come to the 'concert.' That's obvious. And no one announced that they risked losing their lives. What happened in spiritual terms, the leap out of security, out of what is usually taken for granted, out of life, that sometimes happens to a small extent in art, too, otherwise art is nothing.' - German composer Karlheinz Stockhausen, September 16" ("Idiocy Watch" (The New Republic, 2001/10/02))

- JosephCuomo

September 27, 2006 at 4:38pm

Elizabeth Wurtzel (see above)would have run a close second, in my view. But I think one would have to award extra points to Stockhausen, who said this only five days after 9/11. . .

- JosephCuomo

September 27, 2006 at 4:45pm

I chuckled often at Marty's anti-French jokes, but consider myself above holding an entire people in contempt for the transgressions of a few. Am I giving myself too much credit? Consider: "Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." (Norman Schwartzkopf). Well, I like it, for many reasons. Stormin' Norman's analogy is simple yet brilliant, whether it's true or not. I mean, how can you not like something that compares an entire nation to arguably the funniest instrument in the band? Plus, there's the concept of *going* deer hunting *with* an accordion. That can't be good. Does Schwartzkopf speak from personal experience? (Jeez, and I thought *Dick Cheney* was a bad guy to go hunting with.) Is the general a Dadaist or what? And his tone is light and mocking, not angry or aggressive. What are we to make of Schwartkopf's choice of tone? And how does the deer feel about all this? This joke reveals, in other words, far more--a multitude of emotions, biases, and characteristics--about the teller and his audience than about the French, the alleged butt of the joke. Which is one of humor's great gifts. Why are we laughing? (And what if the French *aren't* any good at going to war? They can still be crappy fighters and be good at plenty of other things. I can despise their failures in one venue while applauding their successes in others.)

- williamyard

September 27, 2006 at 5:12pm

I laugh at most everything you write, and often have to wipe the tears from my eyes you're so hysterical. I often brighten at the thought of reading your posts. What does this say about me? I like to brush off the question and chalk it up to a guilty pleasure. But sometimes I worry that humor is often used as a replacement for thought, since the first images that come to mind are the inevitably mind-tickling stereotypes that serve as an excuse not going any further. "Ah, the French, they're just... (fill in the blank)" and then you don't even have to refute the argument. How convenient. I think the reality must be that I just don't trust the masses enough to retain the necessary distance from humor. Ah, so sue me. Anyway, keep the posts coming, Bill Yard, no one will censor you here.

- acgraves

September 27, 2006 at 5:45pm

"Feel free to send this to friends if you like." Um...is Peretz starting a chain letter? Time to change your dosage again, Mr. P...

- porkido

September 27, 2006 at 6:52pm

yes, I have heard that one. And, by the way, you're game of oneupsmanship with cuomo to create the ultimate idiot pantheon is cracking me up. It's amazing what people will say-- I mean, you have to be an idiot not to even know when to hide your ignorance, right? I felt that way when I saw some of Buchanan's neaderthal pronouncements on the Daily Show the other night. "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." Twain, I think.

- acgraves

September 27, 2006 at 7:12pm

Here's one for Marty's list from Ted Nugent

- CJoseph

September 27, 2006 at 10:09pm

Link doesn't work; here's the URL: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/nugent.asp

- CJoseph

September 27, 2006 at 10:11pm

Let's stereotype four nationalities at once: Canada had the opportunity to be a country with British politics, American know-how, and French culture. Instead it wound up with British know-how, American culture, and French politics.

- CJoseph

September 27, 2006 at 10:28pm

"The French will only agree to go to war when we've proven we've found truffles in Iraq." --Dennis Miller. At least they'd have waited for proof, no? Not like invading Iraq because some drunk said his brother's wife's cousin or something said they'd heard there was maybe some stinky missile shells.

- moshplant

September 28, 2006 at 1:34am