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Go Home Afghanistan Reconsidered: What the U.S. Should Do Now

POLITICS MARCH 22, 2012

Afghanistan Reconsidered: What the U.S. Should Do Now

Back in July of 2010, TNR asked nine experts to explore what the United States should do next in Afghanistan. In the twenty months since that symposium, much has changed. Tragic developments—such as the downing of a military helicopter that claimed 38 Americans and the recent massacre of 16 Afghan civilians by a U.S. Army Staff Sergeant—have stoked widespread discontent with the current course of action, and have many rethinking their commitments to the mission. Given the new circumstances, we invited our original contributors to follow-up on the suggestions they offered two years ago.

 

Leon Wieseltier. I do not believe that the war in Afghanistan can be won by anyone except the Afghans, and I do not believe that they will win it. For us, this is a war against al-Qaeda, which, in Afghanistan but not in Pakistan and elsewhere, we have largely won; but for the Afghans this is a war against their own demons, religious and secular—against theocracy and kleptocracy; and it is war against their historical refusal to embrace the unifying force of a national definition, their preference for tribe over nation. After ten years I do not see any significant change for the better in this regard, even if the security situation improves in Helmand and Kandahar. We have been undone by our strategy: since it is a campaign for hearts and minds, counterinsurgency’s success depends upon the sentiments of the hearts and the convictions of the minds, and those cannot be determined by military means. In such a war, the weak Afghans have a strong hand; and they have played it.

And how long will those provinces remain stable and safe when our protection is withdrawn? My distant impression—and I am not remotely expert on these matters—is that the Afghans want our externalities—our soldiers and our dollars—but are not prepared to accept our internalities—the accountable democratic institutions that we hoped to help them create. And so the war is a story of waxing and waning without end. Also, it is sloppy of me to refer to “the Afghans,” because there are many people in Afghanistan who ardently want to bring their country into a decent modernity. For this reason, my certainty that this war is futile, and that therefore we should quit it, torments me (pardon the melodrama, but what follows is not a small matter): we will be abandoning Afghanistan—the women, the women—to the Taliban, who seem completely unreconstructed to me. But I don’t see what else we can do, except to remain there indefinitely, which would give the Afghans even less incentive to rely upon themselves and would eventually become indistinguishable from a mere occupation.

So I think we should go, and confront our enemies ferociously in western Pakistan and Yemen and Somalia and elsewhere. I would add only that our departure has been made more inevitable by Obama’s bizarre handling of the war. Announcing the date of its expiration to our enemies was an act of extraordinary strategic incompetence. And escalating a war that he wanted to end seems a little cynical—excuse me, pragmatic. Soon the president will have his wish and no longer be a war president. We will not have been defeated in Afghanistan—from the standpoint of our security, we got what we came for. But the dream of a new Afghanistan will remain a dream. I wish that I could be persuaded otherwise, but even idealists—especially idealists!—need to keep their eyes open and see things clearly.

 

Fouad Ajami. America’s time is up in Afghanistan. Staff Sergeant Robert Bales had nothing to do with this moment of reckoning. There is something unacceptable about a war we wage with little debate, and precious little attention. Say what you will about the war in Iraq, George W. Bush claimed and defended it, paid a political price for it, and suffered the wrath of the war’s opponents. From Susan Sarandon to the Dixie Chicks, it was the fashion to weigh in on the war in Mesopotamia. Iraq multiplied the ranks of the strategic analysts. For all the divisiveness of that time, it was nobler than the silence and oblivion that attend the Afghan war.

This is Barack Obama’s war, but it causes him no anguish. Nothing here of the torment that ate at Lyndon Johnson over Vietnam. The Afghan campaign is politically manageable, the Obama devotees give it a pass, and the Republicans (save for Ron Paul) have no coherent alternative to offer. They have no use for Afghanistan, they bristle at paying for the war, but they can’t step forth and proclaim what they truly believe: that this is not a winnable war. A year or so ago there was a case for giving the war a chance. But our country is trapped there, hostage to the Afghan warlords and the Afghan furies. It is time to concede what the late Richard Holbrooke knew about the war he was asked to oversee: There is nothing there for us, there is no possibility that we can put together an order that would survive our withdrawal.

 

Anna Badkhen. “Our trouble,” Barry Lopez wrote once about our five-hundred-year history of vandalism, avarice, slaughter, and exploitation in North America, “has been that from the beginning we have imposed, not proposed.” After 500 years of abuse we are beginning to rediscover our relationship with our own land. And after more than a decade of war, during which we have been trying—mostly unsuccessfully, often catastrophically—to impose our social and economic ideas in Afghanistan, it is time we begin to rediscover our role there.

The winding down of the U.S. military engagement should become the beginning of a new kind of interaction between Afghanistan and the United States—one in which we listen.

We may not like what we hear. We may hear, as I have in villages in Northern Afghanistan, that many Afghans—yes, women, too—embrace the Taliban, and that no central government has any credibility with the population. That such lofty and beautiful ideas as democracy and public education for women are irrelevant, and that accessible and quality healthcare, passable roads, and viable distribution of water for irrigation—all far less telegenic than a classroom full of uniformed girls in neat white headscarves—are more important. But if the sincere answer to the question we keep asking—“What are we still doing in Afghanistan?”—is to make something better, then we must stop trying to do so on our terms.

This will require humility. This will require a common sense of shame. This will require the American public, not just the government, to take responsibility for every death in the war that was so enthusiastically supported in 2001, not just Staff Sergeant Robert Bales’ massacre of sixteen villagers last week. This will require challenging the notion that our social ideas are, in Lopez’s words, “superior if not unimpeachable.” Only then can the United States begin to do what it must in Afghanistan: Help the people whose lives it has been methodically undoing in a way they want to be helped, not in the way we think they should.

 

Steve Coll. I don't think the assumptions on which the American exit strategy is based are looking very convincing at the moment. The political foundation for the military transition strategy is pretty shaky, and I don’t see much willingness to step back from those assumptions, which have been on a kind of automatic pilot, and ask the hard questions about what the alternatives might be if those assumptions are wrong. My fear is that the center will not hold when 2014 arrives. All this technocratic planning on transition and security handover—that whole narrative—depends on there being a political center and a government that’s unified enough, with security forces that aren’t crumbling, to prevent an ethnic-based civil war that’s even worse than the one we have right now. It’s important to start thinking ahead about some of those political questions, and I don’t see that happening right now. The last few years, the White House has been sticking to its plan, but it’s pointless to couple that outward resolve with an internal refusal to deal with reality, which is what I’m afraid is going on.

 

Amitai Etzioni. I long argued that before we promote the full slew of human rights, we should attend to the most basic of them all: to protect life. Not because other rights are unimportant but because they are contingent on keeping people alive. We are failing this test in Afghanistan as we are about to leave after the elections, and leave a country in which killing will be rampant. We should try to work with the ISI, which has some leverage over the Taliban, to see if, in exchange for our support, they would try to avoid a civil war in Afghanistan and ensure that it will not serve again as a haven for terrorists. If not, we better have the drones ready.

I am not surprised that we shall not leave behind a stable democratic country; I never believed we could engage in nation building in this part of the world. And I am not surprised that we shall leave behind a country even more corrupt and subject to drug lords that we found. I am distressed about the size of the cemeteries Afghanistan will need.

 

Ahmed Rashid. The three recent gruesome incidents only highlight that Afghanistan is facing a serious political, military, and social meltdown. There is still time to rescue it from such a fate post-U.S. withdrawal, which could repeat the civil war that resulted from the Soviet withdrawal in 1989 and the failure then of the U.S. and the Soviet and Afghan communists to negotiate a political settlement. The Obama administration needs to put its emphasis on the present slow-moving but ongoing negotiations with the Taliban, despite a temporary suspension of the talks. The talks need to move rapidly: first with steps to build trust between the two sides, followed by military confidence-building measures that could reduce the violence perpetrated by both sides, and eventually political negotiations leading to power-sharing between the Afghan government and the Taliban. But divisions within the Obama administration and the Kabul government on talking to the Taliban have so far prevented a faster pace, while the U.S. elections could reduce Obama’s capacity for risk-taking in the negotiations. Yet the U.S. cannot withdraw from Afghanistan leaving behind a continuing civil war. The only feasible option is for the U.S. to help negotiate an end to the civil war before 2014 and its withdrawal. The alternative could be a multi-dimensional civil war that would devastate the region.

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32 comments

Only a small percentage of Afghans want real freedom. They want their culture to on as it has for thousands of years. That's their idea of freedom. Their major export is heroin. I saw a documentary last year where an Afghan poppy farmer said that he knew that what he was doing was harming people, but that he had to support his family. Maybe he shouldn't have a family, if the only way he can support them is by selling death. And, remember, Taliban women agree with what their husbands and brothers and fathers are doing to Afghan women. That country is a nightmare. Its "leader," Karzai, is one of the most corrupt SOB's on the planet. Let's get the hell out of that place.

- magboy47.

March 22, 2012 at 1:00am

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Anna Badkhen is by far the senior expert of this bunch. I always trust her words. She doesn't pretend to be a visionary, yet the remarkable scope of her vision and perspective of Afghanistan is invaluable. I hope she abandons modesty for her next book[s], as I anticipate an elevated experience when I again read the long form of her nonfiction literature. Amitai Etzioni has also earned his designation as "expert." He sounds like a fellow supporter of the policy of a continued robust drone strike capability. This pleases me. However, his idealistic notion of partnership, or even merely cooperation, with ISI is borderline laughable, at least in terms of how an American leader could sell that politically to Americans. Leon Wieseltier & Steve Coll make excellent points, lending the heft of their moral & political analyses to bring us just a tad closer to practical solutions. No one can say they've been absent from the debate, or that they've ever downplayed the significance and the tragedy of this ridiculous conflict. Hopefully Taliban leaders & US policy makers will meet to discuss & act on Ahmed Rashid's ideas in a neutral office building in Qatar soon. Fouad Ajami's contribution is a sad joke.

- Konstantin

March 22, 2012 at 1:11am

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What we need above all are reasonable expectations. Afghanistan is not a real country, but like Pakistan a sort of Frankenstein monster assembled from spare parts of the British Raj. Largely illiterate and dirt poor, it competes with Bangladesh, Congo and the like for the very bottom in most measures of development and suitability for conducting our style of war. The Bush people, after blowing a very real chance to achieve our principal goals in the last months of 2001, realized this and kept the committment modest in relation to Iraq where we had, and have, much greater interests involved. Democrats, who needed to demonstrate toughness to counterbalance their position on Iraq by calling for escalation in Afghanistan, have now gotten what they asked for. It's tough to admit you were wrong, especially when the costs in blood and treasure have been higher than need be, but that's where we are. We need to maintain a very heavy intelligence and covert operations capability in place, and leave the nation building to those whose nation is to be built.

- Robert Powell

March 22, 2012 at 4:30am

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Susan Sarandon and the Dixie Chicks. The benefit of being a mere commenter is that we are allowed to make such ridiculous statements. But not those who wish to influence policy, TNR contributors included. A reasoned argument has the potential, the power, to persuade; ridicule does not.

- rayward

March 22, 2012 at 8:11am

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That's a pretty tough slice to serve up, Robert. By my lights you are right on the money.

- jacko

March 22, 2012 at 8:18am

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To piggyback on Konstantin and Ray... did no one screen Ajami's ridiculous tripe before including it with the rest of these well reasoned opinions? "This is Barack Obama’s war, but it causes him no anguish. Nothing here of the torment that ate at Lyndon Johnson over Vietnam. The Afghan campaign is politically manageable, the Obama devotees give it a pass, and the Republicans (save for Ron Paul) have no coherent alternative to offer" Yet another seer capable of reading the President's mind. How odd that his telepathic properties can be so fine tuned, yet he misses the fact that, "Obama devotees" though we may be, the VAST majority of those of us loyal to the President have nonetheless been screaming for him to order a withdrawal from A-stan as fast as humanly possible. As for this being "Obama's war"... well, words fail me. Fouad was apparently born in January 2009. I'll say this, his logic sucks but his grammar and syntax are exceptional for a 3 year old.

- Tristan

March 22, 2012 at 8:29am

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I read in this discussion . . . absolutely nothing of any use whatsoever. A lot of fingerpointing, mostly by people who have been consistently wrong. If indeed we could have achieved our goals in Afghanistan in 2001, it is a pity that we threw it away for a pointless war in Iraq where we had no bona fide interests at all. We did succeed, however, in destabilizing the region and encouraging Iran to press forward in its pursuit of nuclear weapons so that we would not be tempted to regime change there. And all for terrorists and WMDs that weren't there. The lesson of Afghanistan is not to employ military force unless there is a goal that is achievable by military force and a clear idea of how to achieve it, taking into account obvious contingencies. Then do it, don't distract yourself with useless detours. And if the mission has failed, know how to cut your losses and get out.

- roidubouloi

March 22, 2012 at 9:59am

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nationalism is nearly impossible with out literacy and multilingualism. Osama is dead. Karzai is corrupt. Let's leave.

- Neurobass8

March 22, 2012 at 10:27am

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The central problem in Afghanistan is one of not following one of the traditional principles of war: that of objective. We had accomplished our objective in Afghanistan back in 2002, but failed to acknowledge it...and thus leave...with our heads held high and our brave servicemembers and treasury unbled. Calling Afghanistan "the good war" did not help as there is no such thing. Wars may be necessary, akin to surgery, but never "good" in their own right.

- Yossarian

March 22, 2012 at 11:49am

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-Tristan, I too would hesitate to call Afghanistan "Obama's war", but your rage at the term seems excessive. Obama approved of the mission from the very beginning of his presidential campaign, he compared it favorably to our efforts in Iraq and he increased our troopl levels from 38,000 in 2008 to 100,000 by 2010 while funding more than doubled from $44 billion to $94 billion over the same time frame. Before inferring that Ajami is a 3 year old, how about you tell us what leprechaun is actually responsible for this.

- jkodak

March 22, 2012 at 11:52am

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Because Obama approved of the invasion of Afghanistan does not mean he, or most, approve of the way the war was abandoned fecklessly to pursue Saddam Hussein, or the timidity with which the US approached the capture or killing of bin Laden at Tora Bora, a huge and costly error. I strongly suspect that Obama would have withdrawn from Afghanistan rather than "surge," but it was necessary to demonstrate that there really is no way forward in order for withdrawal to be possible. It was the right move, if not strictly for military reasons (but then war is politics by other means).

- roidubouloi

March 22, 2012 at 12:09pm

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jkodak - President's don't own wars. Afghanistan is America's war. But if somebody is going to attach a presidential name to this particular cluster fk, then at the very least include Bush. Bush, who after a few short months turned his full attention to ivading Iraq and let the situation in Afghanistan become a quagmire from which there could never be anything resembling victory. Did Obama campaign on escalating and "winning" A-stan? You bet. I can think of no other issue on which I disagree with his decisions more, and I'm about as firmly in the President's camp as you can get without working in the West Wing. But... with all evidence pointing to an unwinnable, unending quagmire facing the US, Bush chose to keep those 30,000 or so troops in place, tilting at the same windmills. Bush chose to continue backing that moron Rumsfeld when the SecDef stood in front of a troop assembly BEGGING for the equipment needed to do their job and complaining that in Iraq and A-stan they had to dig through scrap metal to protect against IEDs, and say "Well, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you want." Meanwhile, they had the means to send such protection to the troops at greater expense and chose not to. No one with any understanding of what has occurred since the first days of the invasion into Afghanistan could possibly call this "Obama's war". To do so, and further to add to this by claiming that unlike, say, LBJ the war causes him to personal angst, is to reveal a curiously skewed bias against Obama, however much he may have - and still may - been in favor of an escalated mission. It ignores every action and lack thereof of the criminally negligent former administration. It is as dumb as calling this the Obama economy. Thus my "rage". Oh and also I fought over there, so, yeah.

- Tristan

March 22, 2012 at 1:43pm

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There is no justification for violence against Afghan civilians, something that is continually practiced at lower levels of intensity than the recent dramatic massacre of the family by an American NCO. By and large, all reporters on the war that I trust, e.g. Dexter Filkins, have said in one way or the other than we are either not wanted, or plain out hated by the regular population. If a war is going on and nobody really knows why we are there and the objective has become so nebulous as to be ungraspable and the leadership of the country we are supposed to be assisting is corrupt and venal and seen as such by the population, then we are just going around and around on a deadly carousel, spraying out Afghan and American blood as it turns. It would be nice to go back ten years and change history -- we do Afghanistan well, we capture or kill Osama bin Laden at Tora Bora, we don't do the Iraq madness, we use the initial good will in Afghanistan to really help a functioning society to re-emerge. Whatever. We can't. At this point, the classic proposition surfaces again -- at some point, we have to leave, and the Afghans will be left with their country. They know it. The Taliban know it. We know it, but Wieseltier, Ajami et al are too interested in scoring adolescent non-points against Obama to admit they know it too.

- ironyroad

March 22, 2012 at 1:48pm

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Truman said the buck stops here. The president is the commander in chief. He is responsible. He inherited the good, the bad and the ugly. He has been at the helm. He is responsible. He should be recognized for the good things, he should be recognized for the bad things. To just separate the blame on BHO for either is wrong. To just assign only the good is wrong. With all and all the republicans should not win, they are enemies of the middle class, they are enemies of America. And definitely USA should not get militarily involved in neither Syria nor Iran. In Afghanistan we are supporting a corrupt leader, Karzai and his family are deeply involved in the heroin business and a very profitable one. In Pakistan we need to keep a close eye on Islamist terrorists and the nuclear Pakistani arsenal. And keep a close eye on Iranian Islamist fanatic terrorists. And BHO has, and is, doing a good job. And I hope BHO becomes a job creation fanatic, he has done some but we need more. But republicans no, they are enemies of the middle class, and not too smart as far as foreign policy goes.

- JAIMECHUCH

March 22, 2012 at 3:05pm

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ironyroad, I think your thesis about JaimeChuch has just gained some very, very strong support.

- roidubouloi

March 22, 2012 at 4:59pm

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I read the multi-author post and the comments with increasing despair. Thank you very much. (Tristan does seem to make some sense, but I am biased.) I live in the woods, not in the most noxious area, but we do have some stagnant water and some mosquitoes, and occasional risks of mosquito borne diseases and tick borne diseases. The US has about as much chance of saving/cleaning up Afghanistan with our military/aid efforts as I do of ridding my woods of mosquitoes and ticks by running around and firing an rpg or a machine gun every time I think I hear a whine.

- skahn

March 22, 2012 at 9:17pm

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leon: But I don’t see what else we can do, except to remain there indefinitely, which would give the Afghans even less incentive to rely upon themselves....Announcing the date of its expiration to our enemies was an act of extraordinary strategic incompetence Does Leon not see the contradiction in these 2 sentences? The point of announcing a departure is to let the Afghan government know we would not remain indefinitely, hence giving them that incentive to rely upon themselves that Leon wants. And Tristan is right, this is America's war. The question we never came to answer ourselves was what would constitute victory. Defeating Al Qaeda and their supporters in the Taliban has been won. Turning Afghanistan into a Democracy is a pipe dream. I do have one dissenting point, I do not believe we have to leave Afghanistan entirely, simply remaining in Kabul and turning it into as much of a modern metropolis (by Middle eastern standards) could present a good contrast to the deprivations of the Taliban in the countryside. However I also realize it would require the city to be a heavily militarized city so whether modernity and militarization can go side by side I do not know.

- blackton

March 22, 2012 at 9:20pm

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It's not modernity and militarization side by side so much as modernity and foreign military presence -- unless modernity is (to some degree at least) an organic development of that society that generates its own legitimacy, it will not take root. Indeed, even if it is organic to that society, it can still be crushed -- see Cambodia in the Khmer Rouge era for an example.

- ironyroad

March 22, 2012 at 10:20pm

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-roid "I strongly suspect that Obama would have withdrawn from Afghanistan rather than "surge," but it was necessary to demonstrate that there really is no way forward in order for withdrawal to be possible. It was the right move, if not strictly for military reasons (but then war is politics by other means)." Even the Vietnam era Henry Kissinger would have found this reasoning morally comtemptible. If it were actually true, then Obama would make Dick Cheney look like de Gaulle by comparison. Honestly roid, what should we make of a president who blows billions and orders thousands to their deaths, not because there was no better alternative (order withdrawal), but merely to confirm a political point. I'm glad we have no such president. I'm disturbed you crave for one.

- jkodak

March 22, 2012 at 11:35pm

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What is the Galicianer dishonest self hatred Jew anti Israel apologizer of Iran talking about? Has he been touched by the half witted or the whiner degenerate? The king du stinky baloney is now delirating non sense. Maybe the whiner can lend them some chickens for you know what....

- JAIMECHUCH

March 23, 2012 at 12:10am

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The Galicianer dishonest self hatred Jew with his short attention span, wants but he can't. All problems are due to the continuous advancement in the legal liberated territories. He knows nothing else, he can not learn nothing else. He has degenerated with the half witted and with the whiner chicken molester. Adieu king of the rotten baloney. Tu est pure merde. Tu ne pas seule voyeur des autres.

- JAIMECHUCH

March 23, 2012 at 12:27am

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How about this for a guiding principle: when a country neatly divides its year into "Winter" and "The Fighting Season", don't go there to fight a war. A kid came back to my neighborhood a few weeks back after having had his legs blown off by an IED over there. Nice family, great kid---played hockey at our high school. Neighbors all rallied, held-fundraisers and a local contractor donated a new ramp for the front of the house. Meanwhile, all my liberal friends cheer about how tough our President is and how he's successfully "taken the foreign policy issue off the table" for November. The "Bush Doctrine", the "Obama Surge"...meaningless slaughter is wholly non-partisan as near as I can tell. This is madness. End this was now. Bring our people home.

- SteveJudd

March 23, 2012 at 1:00am

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End this "war" now, (obviously).

- SteveJudd

March 23, 2012 at 1:01am

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I don't agree, jkodak. Your implicit assumption is that our continued presence in Afghanistan increases the slaughter and suffering in the service of a political or military objective of ours at the expense of the people of Afghanistan. I think that was the case in Vietnam, from beginning to end, but is not presently the case in Afghanistan. To the contrary, I think that our continued presence there, despite problems, suppresses violence and is a service to the people of Afghanistan. Thus, I do not think it morally imperative that we leave and I don't think that Obama is morally at fault for increasing the effort. Unfortunately, the effort is futile. We are holding back the sea, we cannot do it forever, and I think it is not in our interest to continue to bear the burden, even though bearing it indefinitely, or at an increased level of effort, would be morally defensible, and it the view of some is even morally compelled. I don't think it is compelled; it is not our moral responsibility. The cost is too high, and hence we should go. But it required an additional moral exertion to demonstrate that.

- roidubouloi

March 23, 2012 at 10:22am

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The Galicianer dishonest slanderer self hatred Jew has the audacity of talking about morality. Of course he has no shame of distorting the truth and be an apologizer for Iran and a coward. How can he live with himself and his conscience if he has any.

- JAIMECHUCH

March 23, 2012 at 4:14pm

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I think maybe you are on the wrong thread, Jaime. Did you take a wrong turn somewhere?

- roidubouloi

March 23, 2012 at 4:39pm

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-roid, You have me mistaken for some anti-war leftist. I agree with you that our presence there is probably lowering the indigenous death rate. I was referring to the deaths of the men and women under Obama's command. Hell I'm not even a supporter of the president, but the most cynical mindset I am willing to assign him is that he doubled down on Afghanistan during the campaign in order to demonstrate he was no national security softy and yet still draw a contrast with Bush. I am not at all prepared to think that he thought it was all pointless from the very beginning. I now see that you seem to be making more of a utilitarian argument that the lives saved may have been worth the lives lost even though they were our own. I doubt this is true, but this argument is much, much less troublesome then the one I thought you were making.

- jkodak

March 24, 2012 at 1:30am

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We didn't go to Afghanistan to save lives, but to take them. Unfortunately, Tommy Franks decided to let Afghan "allies" provide the blocking force at Tora Bora rather than either the American Marines or paratroopers that were available to do the job. At that point we had essentially failed in our primary mission, rendering nearly irrelevant the later diversion of troops to Iraq. We eventually succeeded, but in Pakistan. Whether this was worth the cost of hanging around for another decade I can't say, but I do know that more people are being killed in Mexico as a result of the ridiculous "War on Drugs", and that's every bit as much our responsibility as the collateral damage in Afghanistan. Time to declare victory in both places.

- Robert Powell

March 24, 2012 at 5:12am

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I agree with you, jkodak, that we should not be asking our young people to risk their lives and give their lives in Afghanistan. They are not a professional military, although they are volunteers. We should only be asking them to take these risks and losses if it is in defense of the security of the United States. But I do think that there were, and still are, too many who believe that some kind of victory is possible and that this would serve the security interests of the United States. I also believe that the thinking behind the surge was that, while it might cost more money, it would, due to a preponderance of power, actually reduce American losses as compared with the then status quo. Hence, I cannot fault Obama for the attempt to make it work. I don't think he was spending lives, American or Afghani, to make a political point, nor do I think that he did so. Certainly, however, there are Americans who would be alive today if he had ended it immediately.

- roidubouloi

March 24, 2012 at 12:42pm

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We never had anything to "win" in Afghanistan. The idea that the 9/11 attacks came from there is obviously untrue--the attacks came from Hamburg primarily. The fact that some planning may have been done in Afghanistan is irrelevant. With the communications used OBL could just as easily have done the planning in a Holiday Inn somewhere. It was important to kill OBL and his top cohorts, but they had been in Pakistan since we let them go there in late 2001. The rest has been all about the self-delusion of people like Obama who imagine that we can go anywhere and do anything if we're just willing to send enough troops.

- Robert Powell

March 25, 2012 at 6:18am

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I think that broadly speaking Obama has been extremely parsimonious with American forces -- Af-Pak is an exception but the reasons were legitimate enough (one could come out on both sides of the decision). I strongly doubt that he believes we can "go anywhere" -- indeed, that he doesn't believe it, and is therefore not really a genuine American -- is the continual drumbeat from the GOP primary candidates.

- ironyroad

March 25, 2012 at 6:58pm

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"Extremely parsimonious" is a far more accurate a description than "go anywhere and do anything if we're just willing to send enough troops."

- roidubouloi

March 25, 2012 at 10:31pm

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