The New Republic

Are we to understand that Obama's four-day visit caused 43% of Turks to regard us as their enemy? Or was there perhaps some problem in the relationship prior thereto? What could have given the Turks the idea that we are their enemy? Hmmm. Obviously, what Obama should have done is show up and lecture the Turks about their failings as Peretz would wish us to do. Then they would have understood that we are their friends. Or maybe there is some either great alternative that has occurred to Mr. Peretz. Will he not share?

- roidubouloi

January 6, 2011 at 2:00pm

roi asks: "Are we to understand that Obama's four-day visit caused 43% of Turks to regard us as their enemy? Or was there perhaps some problem in the relationship prior thereto?" Posted on Apr 6, 2009: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/04/06/turkish_media_praise_helal_oba.html "A front page headline in the popular newspaper Hurriyet proclaimed, in English, "Welcome Mr. President." The newspaper's message to Obama seemed to reflect the way many Turks feel about Obama's visit: "You are in a country that is a friend of the United States. However, you broke our hearts during the last 8 years. Now it is time to fix it." Taraf is reporting the findings of a recent poll: 52 percent of Turks have confidence in Obama, a major shift from Turks' negative feelings toward President Bush. "If [Obama] runs, he can even win the elections in Turkey," Taraf writes. "

- noga1

January 6, 2011 at 2:21pm

It's getting to the point where when Marty waxes philosophical about foreign policy, you can barely see John Bolton's lips move.

- Tristan

January 6, 2011 at 2:53pm

A Pew [link] survey in 2007 found that 67 percent of Turks regarded the US as the greatest threat to Turkey. So the number Marty cites would seem to indicate that more than one-third of the Turks who saw the US as their greatest threat under Bush no longer do so under Obama. I don't know what a comparison with Bush would have revealed. I can't imagine it would have been flattering to Obama. Are we supposed to feel sorry for Marty that he's too lazy to look up widely published facts?

- rhubarbs

January 6, 2011 at 3:07pm

heh, poor Peretz. Still, I suppose it's a huge failing on Obama's part that he failed to bring the number to 0. OR, Peretz will next bleed the argument into the notion that the fact that fewer Turks view us as a threat means that Obama has displayed his submissive, apologizing belly for all the world to see, and they no longer fear us as they should. Heads, Obama is awful. Tails, Obama is awful. The unfalsifiability of Peretz's hatreds and their conclusions would put neofreudians and young-earth creationists to shame.

- miceelf

January 6, 2011 at 3:29pm

The reasons for US unpopularity in Turkey are complex but Obama’s handling of relations is one potent ingredient in the Turkish view of America. Being unpopular is one thing but being thought of as an enemy is something else entirely. http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=more-roller-coaster-us-turkey-relations-on-the-horizon-2010-09-03 “More roller-coaster US-Turkey relations on horizon?” “The weakening Obama presidency has already some and is expected to have more upshots regarding its potency to fully control the foreign affairs, including the one with Turkey. One of the negative effects of growing skepticism over Turkey’s posture in the region, was reported first in the Financial Times, which argued that there is a healthy opposition in the U.S. Congress against selling arms to Turkey, a message that was delivered to Turkish PM Erdoğan by Obama. During my long conversations with the senior staff this week from the Armed Services Committee at the House of Representatives, I was told that the U.S. Navy has a goal of replacing or building 313 ships before the fiscal year of 2018, and currently it is well below these numbers. And that is why the subcommittee chairs have been reluctant to decommission any ships to other foreign countries, including Turkey. Arms sales decisions to foreign countries of the U.S. administration are to be approved by the House of Representatives’ Foreign Relation Committee, and so far the committee’s officials have been non-responsive to inquiries over the issue. Turkey’s ambassador to Washington, Mr. Namık Tan, denied news reports that claimed there was an arms embargo on Turkey or there is a serious crisis between the two countries.”

- apter22

January 6, 2011 at 4:09pm

“Turkey and Its (Many) Discontents The Turkish Public's Opinions of America Have Hit Rock Bottom -- but Turks Don't Think Much of Other Nations or Groups Either” From the link above: http://pewresearch.org/pubs/623/turkey “Negative views also appear to be growing among Turks with respect to the European Union and to Westerners in general. Such negativity toward the EU is likely associated with disillusionment over Turkey's stalled bid to join the union. For instance, the favorability rating for the EU dropped from 58% in 2004 to 27% in 2007.” I would suggest that Turkish view of the West has as much to do with the Islamization of that culture. The rest are mere excuses. If rejections of Turkey by the EU is a cause of resentment so is the Islamization and its poor record on human rights a cause for Europe’s rejection.

- apter22

January 6, 2011 at 4:18pm

Assuming the validity of this report by AK party-affiliated MetroPoll, these are disturbing poll results. They seem most attributable to the success of Erdogan regime efforts to reorient Turkey to an Islamist agenda.

- amidut

January 6, 2011 at 4:19pm

"Why Turks Feel Threatened by the US" September 5, 2007 http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/brmiddleeastnafricara/393.php?lb=brme&pnt=393&nid=&id= "Which Middle Eastern public has the largest percentage of people naming the United States as the country that poses the greatest threat? The answer, according to the most recent Pew Global Attitudes Project survey, is Turkey, a NATO ally and a country that is generally touted as the type of secular, multi-party democracy the United States should foster in the Middle East. Nearly two-thirds (64%) of Turkish respondents name the United States, which guarantees Turkish security as a NATO ally and has urged the EU to accept Turkish membership, as the country that poses the greatest threat to Turkey in the future, Pew found. Among the Middle Eastern publics asked the open-ended question by Pew, only in Turkey did a majority name the United States. Turkey is also the Middle Eastern country where public opinion toward the United States has slipped furthest in recent years. Fewer than one in 10 Turks (9%) have a positive view of the United States, a drop of 21 points from the already low level in Pew's 2002 survey. More than four out of five (83%) say their attitude is unfavorable, including 75 percent who feel very unfavorably. That's one of the highest negative percentages among the eight Middle Eastern countries surveyed by Pew in 2007, second only to the Palestinian public with 86 percent unfavorable. But unlike the Palestinians (whose attitudes toward the United States worsened after the 2003 invasion but have improved slightly since then), Turks have remained as negative as they were in March 2003 (84%). Moreover, not only do most Turks view the United States unfavorably, more than three out of four (77%) also look on Americans that way." If Obama is guilty of anything it’s of adopting a policy of conciliation that isn’t working. Probably Turkish churlishness is due to its own irrational expectations seeing itself as some sort of world power than to anything anyone else did to that country.

- apter22

January 6, 2011 at 4:23pm

What amidut said.

- apter22

January 6, 2011 at 4:24pm

Maybe he would have been more popular if he had condemned Israel for capturing that boat that ran the Gaza blockade. Lifting the sanctions on Iran looks like it would have brought his numbers up in Turkey now too. I submit that a United States president has little business trying to appease the Turkish electorate, especially if to do so you have to adopt a foreign policy similar to that of, say, North Korea.

- SFergessen

January 6, 2011 at 10:44pm

Noga, thanks for this nugget:

The newspaper's message to Obama seemed to reflect the way many Turks feel about Obama's visit: "You are in a country that is a friend of the United States. However, you broke our hearts during the last 8 years. Now it is time to fix it."

- icarusr

January 7, 2011 at 10:09am

"The newspaper's message to Obama seemed to reflect the way many Turks feel about Obama's visit: "You are in a country that is a friend of the United States. However, you broke our hearts during the last 8 years. Now it is time to fix it."" I like the phrase in the very abstract sentence "seemed to reflect." "Seemed" not did reflect. That's not reassuring. And broke our hearts? Do all Turks have the same heart? Are the Turks grown up people? Do they know the difference between someone who doesn't kow tow to their every whim and an enemy?

- apter22

January 7, 2011 at 10:52am

well done noga. What the hell is happening to Marty I have no idea. Amidut said more in one sentence, and far more coherently, than Marty did in his entire post.

- blackton

January 7, 2011 at 12:12pm

Marty Peretz is one TNR writer who I never bother reading. His reactionary comments seem very much out of place in what is a generally progressive magazine.

- Haole45

January 7, 2011 at 2:15pm

blakton, and all you fans/foes of Marty: I read the most interesting article about, literally, Marty's current state of mind in New York magazine. I literally went from total disgust over his recent rantings to sympathy and prayer: http://nymag.com/news/features/70310/index1.html It's kinda long, but fascinating.

- RJSampson1

January 7, 2011 at 2:59pm

Blakton, et. al: The above link is the second page of the story... Here's the correct link: http://nymag.com/news/features/70310/

- RJSampson1

January 7, 2011 at 3:04pm

yeah, the U.S. broke Turkey's heart by invading Iraq. BFD. The Turks are tied with the Russians as worst imperialists in history, but the Turks are STILL at it in Anatolia. Just ask the Kurds and the Alevis, the original occupants of Anatolia, how they feel about being Turki-fied and Sunni-fied under AKP. So, here we go again on that NYMag profile? When will The Spine stop? If Peretz was hoping for a reprieve, this post sure does not help - so very much without insight. At the very least, Obama proved his theory wrong: outreach to the world of Islam did not change just because Obama became president. I am too lazy to insert the original quote from Obama to that effect.

- K2K

January 7, 2011 at 3:47pm

It's not just diplomacy but military relations too. I blame Obama for the fact that Turkey wouldn't permit a land crossing into Iraq by the 4th Infantry Division during the invasion in 2003. Or Samantha Power.

- ironyroad

January 7, 2011 at 7:29pm

For all those who rushed to eulogize Peretz a few days ago, here is the latest news: http://frontpagemag.com/2011/01/07/in-defense-of-marty-peretz-2/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter "Wells broke the story that as of the first of this New Year, Peretz would be stepping down and given the new largely honorary position of Editor in Chief Emeritus. Moreover, it was reported that his popular blog on TNR’s website, “The Spine,” would be dropped from the magazine’s site. This turned out not be true. I spoke to Peretz, who is teaching in Israel, by phone. He pointed out to me that he is actively writing new blog entries- as he has the past few days. Moreover, rumors that he was forced out of the editorship are not true. He was contemplating leaving that post the last few years, he said, and only pleas by Frank Foer and Leon Wieseltier kept him from doing so. Involved in other projects, Peretz feels he had no time for the responsibility and day to day work of an editor in chief, and felt that now was the right time to relieve himself of the job. Moreover, the implication that the Board of TNR wanted him out are also not true; nor were the rumors that they had a controlling share in the magazine and that he had to bend to its desires."

- noga1

January 7, 2011 at 8:50pm

rjsampson, thanks, when I get the chance I will read it all, but this part touched me: Peretz participates now and then in a vigil in the East Jerusalem neighborhood Sheikh Jarrah, in solidarity with Palestinians threatened with eviction. The demonstration has drawn great attention in Israel, but there are at best 120 people there, he says. “Take away my friends, and there would be 115.” It is a shame he doesn't devote a hell of a lot more time to what he sees and does there.

- blackton

January 7, 2011 at 8:51pm

ironyroad is trying to mock what he imagines he reads in Peretz's mind, so it must be Friday. I do not see Peretz BLAMING Obama for Turkey's fickleness. What I see is Peretz telling Obama: Didn't I tell you that all your cheindalach towards the Muslim countries will end in nothing but more humiliation?

- noga1

January 7, 2011 at 8:57pm

OK, but "chalk this one up etc etc" is a noticeably a little more hostile and pointed than a resigned or even accusatory "what did I tell you . . .?" It's Friday -- and fwiw I'm in Los Angeles. Blame both.

- ironyroad

January 8, 2011 at 3:48am

I'll bet you are having fun. Well, Peretz is not an Obama lover, that's for sure, so his criticism would be coloured by a little bit of schadenfreude. So what? Your own response was somewhat lacking in charitableness too.

- noga1

January 8, 2011 at 7:47am

What's wrong with the Turks feeling threatened by the US. They should. Turkey was no help during the Iraq War and has been moving in the wrong direction for 10 years. Look at their relatinship with Israel, they screwed that one up. Now would be a good time to let Turkey know what we think. Pull our Nuclear Missles out and leave them exposed to a little Soviet menacing. Finally tell them that yes it was Genocide that they committed against the Armenians. And start throwing our support towards Greece and Northern Iraqi's. Turkey has had a free ride for too long as the 'Good' Muslim country. Let them grow up and start acting like adults who have to deal with reality.

- CRS9TNR

January 8, 2011 at 9:21am

Prof. Peretz is sometimes too quick to blame foreign setbacks on Obama that properly belong to G.W. Bush. But here an underlying point is valid, that an Islamist Turkey is no friend of ours. In that context, we should desist from hectoring the European Union to admit Turkey. How would Americans react if the E.U. demanded we open our borders to Mexico, and reserve Mexico one fourth of our seats in Congress and Presidential electoral vote? At least Mexicans have nothing against our religion and culture.

- hcunn

January 8, 2011 at 1:28pm

Noga, I don't think the intent of the article was to eulogize Peretz. But I take issue that the article in NYM was a "hit piece," as cited by your link. Rather, I think the NYM article was effective at humanizing the man. I do feel bad for him. I feel like, having lost so many things in his life, he clung overwhelmingly to his affection towards Israel -- while at the same time, admitting that things don't seem to be heading, politically, in the direction that many of us (including Marty) think is productive. And blackton, I couldn't agree with you more. It really is a shame that Marty continues to focus on events not related to what must be a wonderful stay that he's enjoying. I'm sure we've all had this experience with our elder family members as they age. They become more insular and single-minded -- and cranky! For my part, I was really touched that -- despite his cranky (and more often than not, hardly scientific) generalizations about Arabs and Muslims, he really is still a good soul who cares about people. I've always been impressed with his passion for the horrifying injustices in Africa, and his outrage that the international community doesn't seem to care. How I wish he would focus more on that, more on the importance of generosity to your fellow man (that he has demonstrated), and just start backing off the Arab world a tad. There's clearly, still, a lot of kind goodness in the man, and I'm betting that his stay in Israel will serve to round out some of the harder edges. Based on what he's said, I think he's on the right track. Losing your mag, your blog, and your wife of 40+ years would be hell on anyone. Here's hoping that he'll continue to see more Lux in Tenebris Lucet in the middle east, amongst all the pain.

- RJSampson1

January 8, 2011 at 2:25pm