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Go Home Arab Spring, My Foot

TEL AVIV JOURNAL OCTOBER 6, 2011

Arab Spring, My Foot

Or, better yet, “my ass.” The Arab Spring has been with us for nearly three quarters of a year. This is not a long time as history goes. But the annual flowers of the spare land have long ago vanished into the crude, mostly gritty sand that is the Middle East. It’s not, though, as if it is at all back to “normal” in the Arab world. And, frankly, we haven’t the slightest about what normal in the Arab world is or will be. The Muslims and the Jews and the increasingly scarce but differentiated Christians who constituted the region lived (and live) recreant lives. For centuries it was the People of the Book who were put on edge or to death, mostly for what they believed and also for what crimes the authorities fantasized they had committed. (In this way the Jews of the Near East—near where, exactly?—lived lives on the edge much as they did in Christendom. Of course, if there are maybe 2,000 Jews now in all the Arab lands, it would stun me. The near-million there were are now mostly in Israel, God bless them, and in Western countries which, God bless them, welcomed them, even France, like brothers and sisters, a new enunciation of fraternité.) The Peoples of the Cross were likewise persecuted—but sometimes the powerful states of Europe, both Catholic and Protestant, were able to extend a cloak of protection around Christian communities of the Levant. Though not, of course, around the Armenians. Or, for that matter, not around the Kurds either, who, mostly Sunni, some Shia, were in the Islamic orbit but distanced from that orbit’s—let’s face it—zealotry.

No one is to blame, I suppose. In any case, I won’t blame anybody. But the facts are the facts. Still, the Arab Spring did persuade even the most insulated Arab rulers to do something. The last of these rulers to move was certainly the least vulnerable to crowds, if crowds there could be. And actually in the last months there were occasional street protests against the Saudi monarchy, although they were quiet and reserved. Many hundreds were arrested and lost in the empty infinity of process-less administration. The al Mabahith al-’Amma, the political police, were busy, as the religious police always seem to be, going around swatting the backsides of men on the street who are not praying with sufficient fervor. But they guard public security according to very vague standards and with no enumeration of liberties. Ah, what is liberty? It’s not either an Arab or Muslim idea. Anyway, when I was in Saudi Arabia some 15 years ago there was no, no public auditorium or theater; the only places of public assembly were the mosques. Maybe there is now a site where a non-praying crowd can gather. But I don’t know of one. I do know that many videos are smuggled into the country, especially porn. But that is by people who are allowed to travel and have enough cash to spend lavishly. I’m acquainted with some, cynics who represent their country in Washington and at the United Nations. Cynics and free spirits: During the last meeting of the General Assembly I met a friend from my visit to the peninsula many moons past. He lifted the lapel of his smartly tailored sport jacket, Brioni maybe, which I think was next door to his hotel. And there it was: an insignia of two flags crossing, one American, the other the flag of the State of Israel. Long ago, in Riyadh, he confessed that he longed to go to Israel. But by late September of this year he had not yet made it. I assured that I could arrange to get him in without difficulty and in complete secrecy. He said, “It is not the Israelis of whom I am frightened.”

Anyway, the someone who did something was the ailing 88-year-old King Abdullah, whose putative successor is the 87-year-old Crown Prince Sultan, apparently even nearer death in a New York hospital, presumably Memorial-Sloan Kettering, than his half-brother. And he, too, has a known successor, Prince Nayef, age 77, with no known serious illnesses. His liability is that he is a social and political reactionary. Anyway, what Abdullah has done is to vest women with the right to vote ... sometime in the next few years. This provoked many huzzahs from the royal bleachers and was widely seen as the monarch’s effort, such as it is, to join modernity. Ah, yes, but Nayef is opposed to women’s suffrage as he is opposed to other manifestations of the contemporary world. In any case, the suffrage won’t be extended until 2015—leaving much space for retreat. Still, the royal act was much welcomed as the first instance of Saudi participation in the Arab Spring.

But not by everyone and not by people who really knew. Even Neil MacFarquhar’s cool dispatch in The New York Times exactly a week ago as I write made clear that the monarch’s pronouncement is not a major step towards anything.

A slightly more sassy commentary, “All the King’s Women,” by Simon Henderson, the distinguished commentator on Arab affairs at the Washington Institute, was published in Foreign Policy. Here’s an excerpt from Henderson’s piece:

Saudi watchers, certainly including yours truly, didn’t see this announcement coming. King Abdullah’s reputation as a reformer has dimmed in recent years. He doesn’t seem to have the energy to push for the needed consensus in the royal family and, more particularly, from the kingdom’s orthodox Sunni Islam clerical hierarchy. But the monarch did attempt to bridge these divides by painting the change as completely compatible with Islamic tradition. “All people know that Muslim women have had in the Islamic history, positions that cannot be marginalized,” he said, going on to note women’s contributions since the time of the Prophet Mohammed.

This reform, however, was the exception rather than the rule. In fact, King Abdullah hasn’t seemed to be making any decisions recently. A diplomatic friend recently described the monarch as “lucid for only a couple of hours a day.” And last week, there was what seemed to be the height of Saudi indecision: Yemeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh was allowed to return home from a Saudi hospital after recovering from injuries sustained nearly four months ago—despite an apparent agreement between Riyadh and Washington that, for the future good of troubled Yemen, this shouldn’t happen.

Whoever made the decision to ship Saleh back to Yemen is as of yet unclear, but credit for women’s voting rights should probably be given to the king’s daughter, Adila, who has been a known advocate of her gender’s increased participation in public life, particularly driving, for several years. Adila was also seen as being the moving force in the 2009 appointment of Norah al-Faiz as a deputy minister of education—the first woman to achieve such prominence in government. But, apart from allowing Adila to speak out, King Abdullah himself has hardly been noted for behavior toward women that would pass for enlightened in most other parts of the world.

In my 1994 study of Saudi royals, “After King Fahd: Succession in Saudi Arabia,” I included a cheeky footnote pointing out that then Crown Prince Abdullah had the full Islamic complement of four wives, “two of whom were semi-permanent and the other two ‘rolled-over.’” Good taste inhibited me from including the same information in my updated 2009 study, “After King Abdullah: Succession in Saudi Arabia.”

The king’s replenishment of wives, however, is having a notable effect on the House of Saud’s ever-growing family tree. The king’s youngest son, Badr, was fathered when the monarch must have been in his late 70s. And I have since discovered that Sahab, the daughter who married (or was married off to) a son of Bahrain’s King Hamad this summer, was only born in 1993, when King Abdullah would have been 70 years old.

How did King Abdullah manage to be so (pro)creative? No sniggering please but, via WikiLeaks, the State Department has provided us with a possible answer. A 2008 cable from the U.S. Embassy in Riyadh reports that King Abdullah “remains a heavy smoker, regularly receives hormone injections and ‘uses Viagra excessively.’”

The most surprising editorializing came in the Financial Times on September 27. It said that this was “No Saudi spring.” Now the FT is a pro-Arab newspaper, no ifs or buts. It certainly is an anti-Israel newspaper. For example, it still calls Tel Aviv the capital of the Jewish State. Try to grasp from this alone its view of Israeli reality. Moreover, in parallel with its demonization of Israel, the FT often exaggerates the virtues of individual Arab states and the virtues of Arab society as a whole. But not here. In fact, its commentary is devastating. Here is the editorial in whole:

Even if the latest promise of granting marginal political rights to Saudi women could be believed, it would be too little, too late. King Abdullah has good intentions regarding their position, but any step forward on rights tends to be matched by two steps back—and not just for women.

The king consulted with clerics before announcing women could vote in the next municipal election—though not the one due this week—and join the royally-appointed Majlis ash-Shura, a consultative body with no real power. The clerics’ consent suggests they see the promise as sufficiently meaningless not to pose any threat to the Wahhabi establishment.

They are right. This promise has been made before—when municipal elections were first held in 2005, women were also told that next time they would be allowed to cast their ballots. Not only did it take six years for “next time” to arrive; women have now been sold that particular horse twice. No one knows how long it will take before the new promise is tested. In the meantime, the rules that make women the wards of male relatives in even the tiniest legal matter—and the no less offensive ban on driving—remain in place, threading women’s lives through endless humiliations and impracticalities.

Gentle pressure by Saudi women—especially in business, where they have made inroads—combined with a need to pay lip service to global standards and genuine interest in reform has occasionally prompted tiny steps forward. In 2009, a woman was appointed deputy minister for education, and some limits put on clerical control over syllabuses and television content. But when it counts, the forces of reaction have the upper hand. When the Arab spring swept over the region this year, the king sided unequivocally with the status quo. Instead of reform came a cash splurge to buy the people’s quietude, more power for the security forces and religious police, a law making it a crime to criticise clerics and tanks to suppress the uprising in neighbouring Bahrain.

Saudi policy is racked by rivalries within the House of Saud and the inherent uncertainties of gerontocracy. But the rulers seem united in defying the march of history by holding on to their form of government: absolute monarchy balanced only by fundamentalist theocracy. In particular, they show no sign of permitting any political participation that would permit minority Shia to press their claims. Not only women, but all disenfranchised Saudis will have to bide their time a while longer.

Of course, I don’t judge the progress of the Arab Spring by what happens in Saudi Arabia. This is, after all, the last monarchy governing a meaningful Arab state and it is protected by its own cash which it distributes, as it did this year, whenever economic stringency invades the fantasy polity of kings and princes and their bankers who are very much welcomed in the financial centrals of the world: New York, London, Hong Kong, Singapore, Beijing, etc. The other royal statelets also are capital rich but they are penny ante polities. The Saudis rushed to rescue Bahrain from its Shia majority. I don’t blame them, by the way. But is this a safe and honorable diplomatic position for America? My guess is that nobody is thinking about this. Normative, shmormative.

A footnote: Wikipedia has a hilarious entry about the “Line of Succession to the Saudi Arabian Crown.” You’ll either laugh at its details or admire its intricacies. Maybe both. This is not modernity. And it certainly isn’t Arab Spring. My guess is that the royals will reign for many years to come.

Nor, frankly, is it Arab Spring in Libya either. There was hope early on that the civil war conducted between a certified madman and his troops on one side and a normal opposition would sort itself out, well, normally. As late as three weeks ago, in fact, almost everybody had Qaddafi on his way to one or another African strongman he had patronized and subsidized over the years, and there is no shortage of them. The one who takes him will suffer no opprobrium either, at least not in Africa. After all, there is no especial African Spring on the horizon, none at all. Qaddafi or Mugabe, what’s the difference? He could also end up in Saudi Arabia just like Idi Amin Dada who lived out his years on the hospitality of the Al Saud. Still, there is something of a new regime in Libya and we should be cautiously cheering for it. It does rule here and there. But it does not quite govern, although it has billions of dollars which Washington, the U.N., and the E.U. have finally liberated for the liberators. It is not easy to throw off a tyrant for a people that is not united, that is riven by different inheritances, that speak different languages, that has different approaches to God, very different, for a people that is actually many peoples.

In any case, the Libyan transition is now burdened with charges of human rights violations by Human Rights Watch, the bona fides of which I don’t especially trust. Still, on these present matters I have no evidence—only hunches. HRW is especially harsh, has an especial tick for blasting the good guys who aren’t perfect or who can’t impose the discipline of tolerance on angry young men in the midst of a revolution. And then there are the internecine quarrels of tribes and religious groups. I do not pretend that these are inventions. The central HRW figure in the Middle East is one Sarah Leah Whitson. She is a mendacious lady in a post that requires judgment, balance, and an allergy to bullshit. As a New Republic article by Ben Birnbaum proved, Whitson has led a jaundiced crusade against Israel with the kind of laughable indiscretion that in better days would have put her on the margins of public debate. But she has an obsession with an evil Israel that faces no enemies but itself. For example, in these days when any left-wing crackpot with a doctorate can get a job at some respectable institution, Norman G. Finkelstein, with a bibliography of anti-Semitic tracts, was denied tenure at DePaul University in Chicago.* He is actually laughable—if he weren’t so skillfully deceitful. Whitson calls his work “thankless but courageous.” I suppose she also thinks of her own libels of Israel as thankless but courageous.

Even if it is not quite Arab Spring in Libya now, Whitson had already detected substantial evidence of “Tripoli Spring,” way back when, on May 27, 2009, she published her “findings” in Foreign Policy magazine. Forgive me. But this reads like nothing less than a blow job. A blow job to Saif Qaddafi who also cast a spell on Harvard professors Joseph Nye and Stephen Walt, the second of whom is to Arab extremism as Lillian Hellman was to Soviet Communism and Stalin. Let us call it “craven”:

The brittle atmosphere of repression has started to fracture, giving way to expanded space for discussion and debate, proposals for legislative reform, and even financial compensation for families of the hundreds of men killed in a prison riot a decade ago. And while the reform initiatives, if we dare call them that, are fragile and tenuous (skirmishes are common between the would-be reformers and a security establishment quite comfortable using its untrammeled authority), political dynamism and vibrancy are appearing in a country that was closed in every way for decades.

I first visited Libya four years ago, just as it was gearing up for its self-rehabilitation in the international community, and I returned the following year, working on Human Rights Watch’s first official investigation in the country. The government was making all the right foreign-policy moves—agreeing to give up its weapons of mass destruction program and to compensate victims of the 1988 Libyan-backed bombing of Pan Am Flight 103. Soon after, Libya even settled the case of five Bulgarian nurses and a Palestinian doctor who were imprisoned for eight years, accused of infecting Libyan children with HIV. They had remained in detention despite overwhelming evidence that the infections were caused by the poor hygiene that characterizes Libya’s public hospitals.

But internally, the repression of Libyan citizens was as suffocating as ever. President Muammar al-Qaddafi’s Green Book, analogous in state-sponsored hallowedness to Mao’s red one, was repeated and rephrased in every meeting—by officials and citizens alike. Libya was a state of perfect direct democracy, I was told. Every citizen participated in making the country’s decisions—so no need for a private press. Vague promises for reform were uttered here or there, but during our visit, we heard no critical voices inside the country, public or private.

When I visited that same Libya this April, I was unprepared for the change. I left more than one meeting stunned at the sudden openness of ordinary citizens, who criticized the government and challenged the status quo with newfound frankness. A group of journalists we met with in Tripoli complained about censorship and the ease with which public officials could sue them for slander. But that hadn’t stopped their newspapers from exposing unsanitary hospitals or contaminated food supplies. One journalist said that, while he was wary of being prosecuted, he found delight in testing the boundaries. Quryna, one of two new semi private newspapers in Tripoli, features page after page of editorials criticizing bureaucratic misconduct and corruption, despite countless pending lawsuits against it.

Even more boldly, families of victims of the Abu Sleem prison killings, in which an estimated 1,200 inmates died on June 28 and 29, 1998, at the hands of state security forces, are organizing—forming their own association—after a decade of relative silence. Back in 2004, the government said it had established a commission to investigate the episode; no one is sure if such an investigation took place or what it may have found. Instead, the state has started to issue death certificates and offered up to 120,000 dinars (approximately $88,000) in compensation. Refusing the money, some victims’ families are instead demanding a real public accounting and justice for their relatives’ killers. The association has held a number of demonstrations despite threats of arrest and ostracism. And while members of the group spoke to us with great apprehension, the very presence of a public debate on abuses by the government’s internal police is breathtaking for Libya.

The spirit of reform, however slowly, has spread to the bureaucracy as well. A new draft penal code restricts the death penalty to murder convictions (previously, being convicted of a whole host of crimes could get one killed), even as it continues broad restrictions on speech and organizations. The critically important separation of the Justice and Internal Security ministries in 2004 is producing results. The Justice Ministry is now playing more of an oversight role, calling on Internal Security to obey court decisions and pursue cases involving alleged abuse by police officers. Judges are traveling abroad for training. International groups are working to improve prison conditions (the admission that Libyans might have something to learn from the rest of the world is a breakthrough in and of itself). Even the Interior Ministry is now headed by a more modern minister, Gen. Abdelfattah al-Obeidi, who has reportedly been tasked with overhauling Libya’s sclerotic police, who had grown accustomed to operating with impunity.

It all sounds tentative yet promising—and indeed, a group of about 20 lawyers to whom we spoke were debating that very question: Was Libya’s expansion of freedom just temporary, or the start of something permanent?

Many Libyans say the changes were unavoidable in the face of the open satellite and Internet access of the past decade, revealing to Libyans just how poorly their Great Jamahiriyaa, the formal name for their government, compares with the rest of the world.

But the real impetus for the transformation rests squarely with a quasi-governmental organization, the Qaddafi Foundation for International Charities and Development. With Saif al-Islam, one of Qaddafi’s sons, as its chairman, and university professor Yousef Sawani as its director, the organization has been outspoken on the need to improve the country’s human rights record. It has had a number of showdowns with the Internal Security Ministry, with whom relations remain frosty. Saif al-Islam is also responsible for the establishment of the country’s two semi private newspapers, Oea and Quryna.

Some say that Saif al-Islam’s efforts are nothing more than a bid to enhance his popularity before moving to inherit rule from his father. No surprise then, that he is pushing a softer image of Libya on the international stage. Even if that’s the case, it is impossible to underestimate the importance of the efforts made so far. Let’s hope this spring will last.

Three months after the publication of Whitson’s paean, the governments of Scotland, Great Britain, and the United States collaborated—or, rather, conspired—in the release of one of the organizers of the Pan Am 103 Lockerbie airplane massacre, Abdelbaset Ali Al Megrahi, whose innocence is being protested by Noam Chomsky and Desmond Tutu. Much honored by the worthies of the English speaking world, Tutu himself is a crackpot. In any case, Megrahi is responsible for the deaths of 270 innocents. But, in Qaddafi’s Libya, he was welcomed home as a hero. In October’s Vanity Fair, Philippe Sands reports that Saif was central in the talks leading to the murderer’s release. Saif also flew Megrahi home from prison in Scotland to freedom at the Tripoli military airport in his private jet. I’ve searched high and low: I cannot find a single statement of regret by Whitson about her adoring praise of the tyrant’s filial “accomplice.”

We are far from the end of the Libyan story. It is not Arab Spring there and it is not Tripoli Spring, proclaimed more than two years ago by the Human Rights staffer, either. Much blood will yet flow before another dictatorship, milder maybe than the colonel’s, rules in the Libyan Maghreb. Please do not fantasize that we are waiting for a republic, let alone a democratic republic. It is not in the cards. It is not in the culture. It is not in anything.

Nor should we expect anyone other than another pharaoh as a successor to Mubarak. He will not be a liberal or tolerant democrat. Of course, the pharaoh might be a star in the firmament of the Muslim Brotherhood. Or he may be (yes, among the Arabs, it will always be a “he”) one of the faceless bureaucrats who were dispatched from Cairo to be a plenipotentiary at the Arab League or even someone who has “diplomatic experience” at the U.N. If he comes from either of these establishments he will be a superlative liar, a liar even to himself. My guess is that, whoever he is, he will have to have made his peace with the generals. In the meantime, although having to make compromises with others, and especially the religious fanatics, it is the military that runs the show. But this military is a more civil (not more civilian) military, more civil certainly than the Iraqi military, which was really a Hitlerian military in its eagerness to carry out the macabre disciplines of murdering civilians. And more civil than the present Syrian military.

Whose brutality since the Ba’ath revolution has been legend, true and curdling legend. Yet please note that, despite the horrifying routines of the Syrian army towards civilians, the American government with its western European allies have vested action against Damascus in the Security Council where the last words are the words of those who veto. This is a predictable process, really a routine—except against Colonel Qaddafi’s Libya when France, the United Kingdom, plus Italy made it a NATO action and dragged America along (to be sure, with decisive technology) so that our country could claim to have led from behind. Apparently, Assad’s offenses are far less heinous than Qaddafi’s. At least that’s what we’d surely have to conclude from the differences in the way the western powers have treated their crimes: war against Qaddafi, diplomatic and financial sanctions against Assad.

Yet sanctions are routinely taken to the Security Council where they are bottled up in dishonest verbiage and in the guiles of not-so-delicate bluff. That’s about all diplomacy is these days. And let’s face it: It is not just Russia and China that are sheltering tyrannous Syria under cover of Security Council oratory. It’s also Brazil, India, and South Africa—which makes one ponder how committed these three governments really are to democracy, to constitutionalism, to humanism. OK, Brazil is not Venezuela; India is not Pakistan; South Africa is not its apartheid predecessor or, for that matter, Zimbabwe. But still... Along with the two gargantuan states across the Eurasian landmass, the trio finds common cause with the single most brutal Arab dictator and dictatorial system of the whole bunch. A big bunch. As I write, news comes from the East River that China and Russia have vetoed a much watered down condemnation of Syria. This article is also by Neil MacFarquhar, also in the Times. When will people realize that the U.N. is more than worthless? Or is it less than worthless?

Turkey, which nurses imperial memories and imperial ambitions in Syria, has put both rhetoric and gesture to work against the Damascene dictatorship. Not so long ago, Prime Minister Erdogan was an ally of the eye doctor. No longer. If he goes way out in front of the U.S. and its European allies in his belligerence against his southern neighbor, whether it be grudge or real enmity, he will be laying the groundwork of a cogent imperium in the eastern Mediterranean, threatening Greece and Cyprus, jeopardizing Israel, imperiling separately and all at once the old Ottoman antagonists: Persia, Iraq, Armenia. And, of course, the jumbled cartography of Syria, the old satrap of the sultan, the caliph. You may recall that I suggested Obama’s role in enticing Erdogan into lordly ambitions around the Mediterranean. But notice that in all of Turkey’s agitation against Assad he has neither pleaded not clamored for U.S. help. The Turkish prime minister believes that Assad is so weak that this is a one man job, palpably a one man job, his.

A Syria in disarray would be very much to his liking. And even were the country to be run by the Muslim Brothers it would be more congenial as a neighborly Sunni dominion than if run by the same theologically perturbing Alawites with their awkward alliances with the Shia and business-minded Christians.

I don’t know whether the latest news from Damascus suggests that the Syrian regime is truly desperate or not. But the dictatorship has pulled out its Israeli card. Ha’aretz reports from FARS, the Iranian News Agency, that Assad warned that “Syria will shower Tel Aviv with rockets if attacked by foreign powers.” And he said more to the Turkish foreign minister: “If a crazy measure is taken against Damascus, I will need not more than 6 hours to transfer hundreds of rockets and missiles to the Golan Heights to fire them at Tel Aviv.”

In addition, FARS reported that the Syrian president told the Turkish FM that he would call on Hezbollah in Lebanon to launch a rocket attack on Israel, adding: ‘All these events will happen in three hours, but in the second three hours, Iran will attack the U.S. warships in the Persian Gulf and the U.S. and European interests will be targeted simultaneously.”

Is Assad nuts? No doubt. This is the man with whom Barack Obama urgently pushed Israel to parley. In fact, this is the man on whom Obama pivoted much of his Middle Eastern policy. My, my: what this president doesn’t know about this region.

The fact is that Israel has stayed out of the ups and downs (and ins and outs) of the Arab Spring. But Assad’s menacing of the Jewish State in this circumstance is evidence of how hazardous any Israeli-Arab frontier line is. If I were an Israeli strategist I wouldn’t give up the Golan Heights for anything. And I surely wouldn’t go back to the 1949 lines either. Nor, for that matter, would I surrender the Jordan River (which is not “deep and wide,” despite what the folk song says, though it may be “chilly and cold”) either to the Hashemite kingdom or to the Palestinian rump.

The failure of the Arab Spring is only the last chapter in the long-time failure of Arabs to tolerate, to make peace among themselves, to learn from others, to accept that a belief is not always or even usually a fact, to recognize that a mirage is a mirage.

Martin Peretz is editor-in-chief emeritus of The New Republic. 

*CORRECTION: An earlier version of this article stated that Norman Finkelstein was denied tenure by De Pauw University in Greencastle, Indiana. Instead, the university was DePaul in Chicago. We regret the error.

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63 comments

Oh my. Truly one of the most incoherent articles I've ever read. Superficial analysis and groundless conclusions about a region that must be assessed on a country by country basis and about developments that have only begun to unfold.

- Thunderroad

October 6, 2011 at 1:50am

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When I was a kid in the 1960s, I remember that "what is the capital of Israel?" was one of the standard trick questions in television quizzes. To say "Tel Aviv" was to show that you knew the facts of the world and the reality of things and weren't one of those people who claimed Jerusalem as the capital just because you'd heard the name in Sunday school. To say that Tel Aviv is the capital has no negative or anti-Israeli implications.

- ironyroad

October 6, 2011 at 2:46am

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"To say that Tel Aviv is the capital has no negative or anti-Israeli implications." Really? I would consider anyone who says that to be anti-Israeli and even anti-Jewish.

- noga1

October 6, 2011 at 6:36am

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The Arab Spring thus far failed. To understand the Muslim world you have to read two best seller books by Vali Nasr. The Shia Revival and Forces of Fortune: The rise of the Muslim Middle Class and what it will mean to the World. Books of rich information and full of energy and hope. Are they going to be just utopian thoughts? Is it the fact that totalitarian dictatorships are very very difficult to crack? Is it the fact that the reliance on oil by the big and developing countries USA Europe China Russia India Japan, is an impediment for the riches to filter to the people? On a practical basis is to our advantage that nothing interferes with the flow of affordable oil to our economies. And so is the history of our civilization. If ain't broken don't fix it.

- JAIMECHUCH

October 6, 2011 at 8:06am

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The Arab Spring thus far failed. To understand the Muslim world you have to read two best seller books by Vali Nasr. The Shia Revival and Forces of Fortune: The rise of the Muslim Middle Class and what it will mean to the World. Books of rich information and full of energy and hope. Are they going to be just utopian thoughts? Is it the fact that totalitarian dictatorships are very very difficult to crack? Is it the fact that the reliance on oil by the big and developing countries USA Europe China Russia India Japan, is an impediment for the riches to filter to the people? On a practical basis is to our advantage that nothing interferes with the flow of affordable oil to our economies. And so is the history of our civilization. If ain't broken don't fix it.

- JAIMECHUCH

October 6, 2011 at 8:06am

You must be a subscriber to post comments. Subscribe today.

The Arab Spring thus far failed. To understand the Muslim world you have to read two best seller books by Vali Nasr. The Shia Revival and Forces of Fortune: The rise of the Muslim Middle Class and what it will mean to the World. Books of rich information and full of energy and hope. Are they going to be just utopian thoughts? Is it the fact that totalitarian dictatorships are very very difficult to crack? Is it the fact that the reliance on oil by the big and developing countries USA Europe China Russia India Japan, is an impediment for the riches to filter to the people? On a practical basis is to our advantage that nothing interferes with the flow of affordable oil to our economies. And so is the history of our civilization. If ain't broken don't fix it.

- JAIMECHUCH

October 6, 2011 at 8:06am

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Muslims believe that they may abrogate treaties with infidel states at will. Such treaties are merely truces. Their prophet, the desert warlord Muhammad, modeled this behavior. Muslims are enjoined to emulate their Prophet, the Perfect Man. The Israelis probably didn't consult Islamic scripture, but they certainly know all this from experience. They shouldn't give up another inch. Withdrawal from southern Lebanon led to Hezbollahstan, Withdrawal from Gaza led to Hamastan. Irony's error is believing that the Muslims can be appeased. But they will always come back for more. If Israel were to shrink to an inoffensive city-state of Tel Aviv, the final siege of Tel Aviv would be as bloody and merciless as the Turkish siege of Byzantine Constantinople in 1453.

- amidut

October 6, 2011 at 8:12am

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They posted my comment three times. Either they like me, eat your heart Tristan and go and look for Isolda. You see Tristan and Isolda is the opera by Richard Wagner the virulent anti-Semite and the national hymn of Nazi Germany. So when a blogger uses the name Tristan either he is a Jew hater or simply a self hatred Jew or basically an Iranian paid blogger. My conclusion he is a half witted fool that is able to write and read, but unable to think.

- JAIMECHUCH

October 6, 2011 at 8:15am

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Someone is anti-Jewish because they call Tel Aviv the capital of Israel, Noga? Are you aware of how disturbed you sound?

- IggyPop

October 6, 2011 at 8:34am

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"So when a blogger uses the name Tristan either he is a Jew hater or simply a self hatred Jew or basically an Iranian paid blogger. My conclusion he is a half witted fool that is able to write and read, but unable to think" Well, good morning to you too, Jaime. Congratulations, you managed to construct a post that didn't call all arabs and muslims cowardly dogs. Does this mean you're back on your meds? Anyway, since you asked, no, I do not use the moniker "Tristan" out of love for the horrendous Wagner. My given name is Vincent. I use "Tristan" to honor the name of the soldier that saved my life in Iraq. I came home - wounded, to be sure, but alive, thank God - but he, sadly, didn't. In point of fact, Wagner only constructed Tristan and Isolde into an Opera, he didn't invent the story. You might want to read a bit into Aurthurian legend. Not that facts would ever get into the way of good propaganda in your world. You may now return to calling me a paid iranian blogger because I point out to everyone here what a bigoted piece of shit you are. Have a nice day!

- Tristan

October 6, 2011 at 8:57am

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Give him hell Vincent. And thank you to you and Tristan for your service and sacrifice. Something that the Field Marshals, Fleet Admirals, and chickenhawks who roost on the Spine wouldn't understand. To the post at hand. The Arab Spring (my ass) has seen regime change and some liberalizing, without the loss of a single American serviceman. Gone is Khadaffy/Gadaffi/Qadaffi. The Bushies held him up as an indicator of the "success" of their disastrous Iraq policy. "See! Qadaffi was so terrified of what happened to Hussein that he gave up his nuclear program." That same dictator who had a crush on Condi Rice - felled by Barak Hussein Obama, as was Osama Bin Forgotten.

- dubyadoubte

October 6, 2011 at 9:46am

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...To say that Tel Aviv is the capital has no negative or anti-Israeli implications... Can use emending: ...To say that Tel Aviv is the capital (of Israel) does not necessarily have negative or anti-Israeli implications...

- basman

October 6, 2011 at 9:47am

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Wow--when Peretz goes on a rant, his mind is so consumed that he can't even retain the basic factual details of the people he loves to hate the most: Norman Finkelstein was denied tenure by DePaul University in Chicago, NOT DePauw University in Greencastle, Indiana.

- ccarrick@vzavenue.net-old

October 6, 2011 at 9:58am

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pleasant (enough) ramble through Peretz's musings, apparently roused from slumber by the Saudi promise that someday their women might get to vote in local elections without being able to drive to the polls. Syria is not Libya, which has some chance of becoming a stable country once again able to employ a million Egyptians who may thus be spared starving by Christmas - about the date that Egypt runs out of foreign exchange to import wheat (see Spengler for the latest update). I want Turkey to deal with Syria. I want Turkey to militarily occupy Hatay Province. I also want America to NOT sell Turkey helicopter gunships to use against Iraqi Kurdistan. Mostly I want Turkey to encounter Russian submarine missiles if Turkey dares to start a naval war over the offshore gasfields being developed by Cyprus with Israel. Kind of surprised Peretz fails to note this particular threat alert. or what will happen if eight million Egyptian Copts decide to all move to St. Catherine's monastery in the Southeast Sinai at once - which will be a good distraction for the alleged human rights activists. I shall end today's comment with the observation that I must have been brainwashed by Soupy Sales and Young Judea because I have always thought of Jerusalem as the eternal capital of Israel that was regained from foreign occupation in 1967, after my 15th birthday. Ok, all I remember from Soupy Sales was how much fun it was to eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for lunch.

- K2K

October 6, 2011 at 10:18am

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Of course Peretz doesn't want the Arab Spring to work, and will argue that it hasn't. If the Arab Spring is successful in Arab countries, then it will be harder for him to argue that killing Arabs is a good and necessary thing, the next time he has to argue that point.

- SMacEachern2

October 6, 2011 at 10:35am

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...then it will be harder for him to argue that killing Arabs is a good and necessary thing, *the next time* he has to argue that point.... When did he argue this in any context that has him arguing what you say he argued--that killing Arabs (of itself) is a good and necessary thing?

- basman

October 6, 2011 at 10:41am

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"To say that Tel Aviv is the capital has no negative or anti-Israeli implications." A country's capital is where the government head of State and its elected officials live and work. In Israel this happens to be Jerusalem. To say that Tel Aviv is the capital of Israel is like saying that New York is the capital of the US.

- arnon

October 6, 2011 at 10:56am

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the usual SMacEachern2 anti Peretzian crap.

- arnon

October 6, 2011 at 10:57am

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...A country's capital is where the government head of State and its elected officials live and work. In Israel this happens to be Jerusalem... Not so fast, Speedy. I want Jersualem to be considered the capital of Israel and I so consider it. But where there is international controversy and international law controversy, what you say is not necessarily the case. The Zivotofsky case going to SCOTUS this fall is al about that.

- basman

October 6, 2011 at 11:38am

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How is it that tnr.com has nothing on the homepage recognizing Steve Jobs today? I thought TNR was trying to keep its website reasonably modern and relevant. Is there *anyone* outside of politics whose death would be significant enough to merit recognition by TNR? Surely the problem couldn't be that the news came too suddenly for them to put an article together by the next morning -- everyone was anticipating this over a month in advance.

- jaltcoh.blogspot.com

October 6, 2011 at 11:41am

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Please do not fantasize that we are waiting for a republic, let alone a democratic republic. It is not in the cards. It is not in the culture. It is not in anything. There might not be sufficient evidence to the contrary, though there is at least some in the case of Libya. However, there is even less evidence of that that is the case. What's needed is to determine what heuristics would characterize democratic versus anti-democratic progress going forward and to observe without ideological blinders what happens in light of that standard. Otherwise, it was a fairly good article.

- sighthnd

October 6, 2011 at 11:52am

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"| IggyPop Someone is anti-Jewish because they call Tel Aviv the capital of Israel, Noga? Are you aware of how disturbed you sound?" I genuinely don't mind being considered "disturbed" by you.

- noga1

October 6, 2011 at 11:53am

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irony "To say "Tel Aviv" was to show that you knew the facts of the world and ..." To say "Tel Aviv" is to show that you're politically correct. The capital of a country is the city where the institutions of its national government have their main headquarters. The institutions of Japan's government are headquartered in Tokyo as are Russia's in Moscow, America's in Washington and Israel's in Jerusalem. Nobody questions that Tokyo is the capital of Japan or Moscow of Russia, what basis is there to question that Israel's government convenes in Jerusalem.

- sighthnd

October 6, 2011 at 11:58am

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"To say "Tel Aviv" is to show that you're politically correct." How is it "politically correct" to pervert reality, right and truth? It is only "politically correct" to say so when in the company of Palestinians or pro-Palestinian activists and you are interested in currying favour with them by catering to their desires and worldview.

- noga1

October 6, 2011 at 12:20pm

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Politically correct here is a open question. But to hold that the final status of Jersualem awaits final resolution may be seen as being politically correct in the sense of saying the right things to mollify convention or present company but may be seen too as being politically correct to a fault, say, in the sense of a perceived, good faith technical correctness--again see Zivotofsky. Zealotry will necessarilly jettison the latter and will necessarily assimilate the political correctness of the latter to some form of the former, say, placating Palestinians and their activists.

- basman

October 6, 2011 at 12:41pm

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The CIA World Fact Book (a great resource, incidentally) designates Jerusalem as the capital and follows that with a note saying "Israel proclaimed Jerusalem as its capital in 1950, but the US, like all other countries, maintains its Embassy in Tel Aviv." Noga, I think you're missing what I'm saying. It was perfectly possible, as my example of growing up in the 1960s was meant to illustrate, to be a strong supporter of Israel and to believe that Tel Aviv was indeed the capital. Given the presence of embassies in Tel Aviv and consulates or consulates-general in Jerusalem (which has an undeniably complicated status in international law) there is a prima facie aspect to that assumption. Perhaps I'd put it this way: there is nothing antisemitic or anti-Israeli in believing -- mistakenly, if you like -- that Tel Aviv is the capital. I know people who grew up in New Mexico and remember receiving pen-pal letters from kids elsewhere in the U.S. who wanted to exchange letters with kids "in a foreign country." It baffled them, but clearly there was confusion and ignorance at the root of it, rather than a calculated desire to insult the junior citizens of the state of New Mexico. That is a completely different matter from maintaining that Tel Aviv is the capital as a political statement intended to challenge Israeli law (and would be odd in turn, as presumably Palestinians don't even believe that Israel is a legitimate country, so what does it matter where they claim their capital is?). You can't assume, however, that everyone across the globe who says "Tel Aviv" in response to "Capital of Israel?" is doing so with malice aforethought.

- ironyroad

October 6, 2011 at 1:08pm

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arnon and sighthnd -- yes, I agree, I'm not disputing anything you say. But all I can say is that I was in my late teens before I encountered a newspaper article that made it absolutely clear that the Knesset was in Jerusalem, and I was confused for a moment. Often, it wasn't mentioned (or it didn't register), presumably because people don't necessarily write "The U.S. Congress, that meets in Washington DC, which btw isn't the same as Washington State . . ." Before, I had thought that it was Tel Aviv. Call me dumb as a fridge if you like, but I bet you I wasn't the only person who believed that and was a supporter of Israel too. Maybe it was different as I was growing up in Ireland and not the United States, but I'm not so sure that Americans who had no personal connection to Israel couldn't have made the same error back in the 1960s.

- ironyroad

October 6, 2011 at 1:22pm

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Jerusalem was never mentioned in the Koran, but was cited hundreds of times in the Bible. Jerusalem has never been the capital of a Muslim, let alone Arab, state. It was the capital of Jewish kingdoms for 1,000 years in antiquity and is the capital of the State of Israel today. The United States and other countries should not allow themselves to be bullied by the Muslims into separating Jerusalem from the Israel and the Jewish people. Come to think of it, we should end the illegal Muslim occupation of the Temple Mount, the holiest site in Judaism. By the way, a venerable Irish diplomat named Conor Cruise O'Brien energetically supported the Zionist cause.

- amidut

October 6, 2011 at 1:39pm

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Yes I know. He also wrote a great essay on Herzl and Zionism.

- ironyroad

October 6, 2011 at 1:45pm

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"I want Turkey to deal with Syria. I want Turkey to militarily occupy Hatay Province. I also want America to NOT sell Turkey helicopter gunships to use against Iraqi Kurdistan. Mostly I want Turkey to encounter Russian submarine missiles if Turkey dares to start a naval war over the offshore gasfields being developed by Cyprus with Israel." Sounds like K2K is breaking out the Risk board again. I'm in, but only if I get Kamchatka.

- wildboy

October 6, 2011 at 2:40pm

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This little boy knows what's what: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iQB5VQOBes

- noga1

October 6, 2011 at 2:44pm

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"Come to think of it, we should end the illegal Muslim occupation of the Temple Mount, the holiest site in Judaism." Amidut, you kid, right? The Muslims have been occupying the Temple Mount since 637 CE, when they took the city from the Byzantine Empire -- although, if you want to be technical, they have only had continued illegal possession since 1187, when they took the city back from the Crusaders. I guess those were illegal occupations since they were acquisitions by conquest without the consent of the prior owner, but it has been a pretty long time in either case and it's not like either the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem or the Byzantine Empire were exactly legal predecessors to the State of Israel. It's true that the Temple Mount is operated by the Waqf, which is a non-governmental Muslim organization, under a standing arrangement with the Israeli government. This is a written agreement between the State of Israel and the Waqf, no different in principle than the written agreement between the United States and the United Nations for the use of the UN complex of buildings on the East River. So that's an arrangement that's the very opposite of illegal, being evidenced by a written contract between a sovereign state and an NGO. In fact, as the sovereign in Jerusalem (certainly de facto if not de jure to other countries), the State of Israel has every practical right to fix any "illegal Muslim" occupation of the Temple Mount by terminating the Waqf's operational control of the Temple Mount and assuming full control of the site itself. Of course, even the most fervent Likudnik realizes that doing this would be to invite a firestorm of protest and anger in the entire Arab world, all for what seems to be a pretty vague concept -- if you're not going to start tearing down the Al Aqsa Mosque and Dome of the Rock to build a new Temple, what's the point of starting a war just so you can say that you run things in that location?

- wildboy

October 6, 2011 at 2:58pm

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wildboy: While the Waqf's control is legal, aspects of their conduct are not. For instance, there's the excavation of the grounds of the Temple Mount. Another issue: there is nothing important to the Muslims in Jerusalem other than denying it to the Jews. If that was not the case, why during the British Mandate did they bar the Jews from sitting in front of the Western Wall or anything else resembling a fixed place of prayer? Now that they can no longer enforce anything in front of the Wall, they now prohibit Jews from uttering any prayers or showing any signs of mourning when on the Temple Mount? They claim that it is because the Western Wall area is holy to Muslims as the location where Mohammed hitched his donkey when he ascended to heaven, but what did they do with the area when they did have control--they used it as a trash heap.

- sighthnd

October 6, 2011 at 3:36pm

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Well, sighthnd, we have now a new concept of universal legality. If something anyone does, invites "a firestorm of protest and anger in the entire Arab world" then it is automatically deemed illegal.

- noga1

October 6, 2011 at 3:47pm

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Noga raises a good point about how Islam has imposed a new law on the rest of the world through intimidation and fear. Islam is responsible for cultural vandalism everywhere it has gone. All pre-Islamic culture, including pre-Islamic Arab culture, is considered "jahilliyah", or ignorance, therefore physical artifacts may be destroyed or reverted to Islamic use. The behavior of the Waqf, or charitable trust, controlling the Temple Mount is of a piece with that.

- amidut

October 6, 2011 at 4:00pm

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Noga, do you think that kicking the Waqf out and having the Israeli government take control of the Temple Mount so that Jews can go there and pray whenever and wherever they want not going to lead to all hell breaking loose in the Middle East? If so, I would like to know what planet you have been living on these past 80 or so years. Yeah, yeah, I know that Islam = Barbarism and Muslims have nothing better to think about than to stick it to the Jews, they think everything non-Muslim is jahilliyah. That doesn't change the fact that (i) Muslims prevent Jews from doing what Jews want on the Temple Mount because Jews let them do it and (ii) Jews are smart enough to know that screwing around with existing arrangements on the Temple Mount has no good purpose other than to inflame the already inflamed. Just because there are hungry bears in the woods doesn't mean it's a good idea to go and throw sticks at them for the hell of it.

- wildboy

October 6, 2011 at 4:15pm

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Please note that while wildboy sarcastically denigrates the notion that "Muslims have nothing better to think about than to stick it to the Jews," nonetheless he has no problem comparing them to "hungry bears in the woods".

- noga1

October 6, 2011 at 4:20pm

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Oh, and simultaneously wildboy throws a piece of candy to the crazy Jews. Muslims are like hungry bears in the woods while "Jews are smart enough to know that ..." whatever. You see, according to wildboy, Muslims are not to be treated with the expectation that they react like sentient human beings with some capacity for reasoning. No no no. Smart Jews should know that and treat them as if they were as vicious and unpredictable as hungry bears in the dark. And then, smart Jews are expected to negotiate and sign agreements with these hungry unpredictable violent bears, hand over territories to them and trust them to keep their word. I have to say, I'm very confused.

- noga1

October 6, 2011 at 4:27pm

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basman "I want Jersualem to be considered the capital of Israel and I so consider it. But where there is international controversy and international law controversy, what you say is not necessarily the case. The Zivotofsky case going to SCOTUS this fall is al about that." Name another country whose capital isn't the seat of government isn't its capital. Name also a country where there is an international controversy about where its capital should be located?

- arnon

October 6, 2011 at 4:30pm

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wildboy "do you think that kicking the Waqf out and having the Israeli government take control of the Temple Mount so that Jews can go there and pray..." How does this follow from recognition of Jerusalem as its capital?

- arnon

October 6, 2011 at 4:32pm

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Speaking of bigotry: "Protocols of the Elders of Crazy" On anti-Semitism in the Arab world By ERIC T. JUSTIN, CRIMSON STAFF WRITER "“When someone is acting heartlessly, we say, ‘Your blood is blue.’ And then we normally add, ‘Like the Jews.’” The other students chuckled and some glanced in my direction, waiting for my response or perhaps my permission. I laughed. After all, this language lesson’s bigotry was very tame compared to other conversations I had had in Jordan. One of my parents is Jewish, and my Jewish identity has always been light, but for those Americans and Arabs I discussed my heritage with, I might as well have been wearing payots, tzitzis, and a star of David skullcap. After all, I was a demon, of sorts. Belief of my damning existence was everywhere, but I was definitely not supposed to actually be there. In Jordan, every day and nearly every facet of society was a reminder that I was dirty—the very embodiment of an “Other.” A whole genre of anti-Semitic “history” and literature mocked me in every bookshop, a whole field of anti-Semitic media from historical documentaries to music videos followed me on every television, and an interpretation of Islam that demonizes Judaism frequently bewildered me in conversations. I heard and overheard countless anti-Semitic remarks in the summers I have spent in Egypt and Jordan. In my experience, arguments about politics almost inevitably turned to “those Jews,” and conspiracy theories wafted comfortably through a room like cigarette smoke. It was suffocating. I anticipated encountering anti-Semitism, but I expected it to be avoidable. I could not anticipate, nor could I have truly imagined, its systemic nature. According to a Pew Poll released in July of this year, Muslims throughout the Arab World hold remarkably and consistently negative views on Jews. The favorability ratings of Jews in the Arab World (and its important periphery, i.e. Iran, Turkey, and Pakistan) range between one and five percent. A necessary caveat, of course, is that a question such as: “Do you hold a favorable, neutral, or unfavorable of x group?” does not provide data that can necessarily be categorized as bigotry. On the other hand, this poll in conjunction with an understanding of the role of Israel—rarely distinguished from “Jews”—in contemporary Middle Eastern thought reveals a region mired in rigid anti-Semitism. Too often we forget that nearly 850,000 Jews from regions as far from Palestine as Morocco, Yemen, and Iran fled or were expelled—often brutally and without property—from their historical lands following Israel’s creation in 1948. The emergence of Israel coincided with the existential political rebirth of the Arab world. For those countries neighboring Israel in particular, hatred of Israel earned the legitimacy of the state, and anti-Semitism became an accepted, government-sanctioned ideology in a sea of ideologies barred by oppressive states. The exaggerated attention given to Israel, particularly in the form of conspiracy theories, remains the clearest evidence of anti-Semitism. Take, for instance, the popularity of “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion,” a fraudulent treatise—originally of Russian origin—all about the pending Jewish plans for world domination. It is Harry Potter for skinheads. According to research conducted by the famed Princeton historian Bernard Lewis in “Semites and Anti-Semites,” former Arab leaders like King Faisal of Saudi Arabia, President Sadat of Egypt, President Nasser of Egypt, and President Arif of Iraq all read “The Protocols” as historical truth. Of course, it is difficult to gauge the popularity of these anti-Semitic books and anti-Semitic conspiracy theories among the general public. However, consider that in no state in the Arab world do even 30 percent of the people believe Arabs were involved in 9/11. I harbor no doubts that the popularity of conspiracy theories about Jews is similarly popular. Evidence that anti-Semitism remains a provocative force in the Middle East abounds today, as it did before. Western pundits recognize the cynicism of Syrian President Bashar Assad’s consistent referral to a “Zionist” agenda, but not the astounding gullibility of his audience to that popular concern. Moreover, one cannot understand the full reality of Egyptian mobs storming Israel’s embassy in Egypt without acknowledging how Egypt’s justified distaste for Israel, a natural byproduct of two lost wars, grew out of proportion. Let me be clear: Israel sowed and sows seeds of hatred. Sometimes, its actions were inevitable. But, at other times, costly mistakes were made. Polling data on Israeli views of Muslims reveal that the negative sentiments are very mutual. In fact, only 9 percent of Israeli Jews have a “favorable” rating of Muslims. Undoubtedly, anti-Muslim views among Israeli Jews are strong. However, I would posit that thanks to the physical presence of Muslims and the ever-critical eye of the world, Islamophobia is not pervasive in Israeli society or politics to anywhere near the same degree of anti-Semitism in the Arab world. Nonetheless, Israel’s Islamophobia remains relevant in modern politics as well. The truth is that I could show you thousands of articles and clips in mainstream Arab media across decades that prove the mainstream nature of anti-Semitism in the Arab world. If you think the political movers are removed from this movement, I could show you countless statements of prominent Arab leaders, of past and present, with revolting statements on Holocaust denial, “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion,” and other delirium. But, anti-Semitism, like any other form of bigotry, can only be partially comprehended through statements or polling data. Pointing out the grave and bigoted misconceptions about historical truth and present reality in the Arab World should not in any way free Israel from criticism or open Arabs to bigotry or generalizations. Nonetheless, stating the truth ought to matter regardless of its possible implications. And the myopic and all-consuming nature of anti-Israeli sentiments in the Arab World is too pervasive and unique to be explained solely by Palestine’s internal politics. Quite simply, one cannot understand mass politics in the Arab world without admitting the role of anti-Semitism. It matters." Eric T. Justin ’13, a Crimson editorial executive, is a social studies concentrator in Currier House. http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2011/10/3/arab-world-antisemitism-jews/

- arnon

October 6, 2011 at 4:34pm

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wildboy "do you think that kicking the Waqf out and having the Israeli government take control of the Temple Mount so that Jews can go there and pray..." How does this follow from recognition of Jerusalem as its capital? Good question, Arnon! I have no idea -- I have always recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital and happily visited the Knesset there two years ago with my family on my most recent visit to the country. Other countries may not want to officially recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital or move their embassies there from Tel Aviv, but that's really a minor problem for Israel given everything else it has to deal with these days. But all this narrishkeit about illegal Muslim occupations of the Temple Mount and such -- it is really silly. Jews run Jerusalem and let Muslims run the Temple Mount because it is in the Jews' interest first and foremost to not inflame a Muslim and Arab population both within and without Israel's borders (internationally recognized or otherwise) that habitually regards Jewish machinations on the Temple Mount with unreasonable suspicion. If someone mistakenly decided that it was in Israel's interest to now stop the Waqf from running the Temple Mount, there was nothing the Waqf could do about it although there sure would be a lot of problems in the broader Middle East arising out of that policy! In any event, you as a Jew are free to go and worship on most of the Temple Mount during specified times and in specified areas -- heck, you were once free to go inside Al Aqsa Mosque, until a meshugenneh Evangelical Christian tried to burn it down in 1969, when the Israeli government decided that the risk of such shenanigans was not worth the lives of Israeli soldiers and policemen who would die in the ensuing riots.

- wildboy

October 6, 2011 at 4:59pm

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Oh, and another thing, Arnon -- it's not like all Jews were ever allowed to go on the whole Temple Mount at all times, even in the days when the Temples stood. Yom Kippur is coming up, so you can spend some quality time in shul during the Mussaf service recalling that fact. As you probably know, that's the reason Orthodox Jews generally don't go on the Temple Mount today even where and when they are free to do so (Rabbi Shlomo Goren was an exception, as ever).

- wildboy

October 6, 2011 at 5:03pm

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basman: "the Zivotofsky case going to SCOTUS this fall is all about that." yes, but is it actually on the SCOTUS docket? not yet clear to me (quickie google) if they have decided to actually hear this case, or it is on the list of 'to be reviewed'. I wonder what Natalie Portman's passport says. arnon - nice find from what I assume is the Harvard Crimson. wildboy: while confessing to any number of beer drinking all nighters playing the board game Risk in 1971, these days, I just use my personal library of Atlases. Currently consulting my 1942 WW2 Atlas to follow the Pacific War after Midway in honor of the recent deployment from Key West, of the brand new destroyer, the USS Spruance. Considering what the Japanese Imperial Army/Navy did to Allied soldiers/sailors and so many Marines, it truly is remarkable that we got past most of the bitter hate in less than 50 years. Perhaps before anyone cancels the Temple Mount waqf, someone should re-consider why one lesson of WW2 was not learned: change the textbooks to change the defeated culture. Yes, I know the Saudis who pay for so many of the textbooks throughout the muslim world, finally promised to do so druing the Bush43 era, but no enforcement.

- K2K

October 6, 2011 at 5:24pm

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"but that's really a minor problem for Israel given everything else it has to deal with these days..." I agree.

- arnon

October 6, 2011 at 5:34pm

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K2K I am virtually certain that Zivotofsky will be heard this fall and of course therefore that leave or certiorari or cert or whatever you guys call it has been granted.

- basman

October 6, 2011 at 5:35pm

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thanks basman. according to wiki, Natalie Portman has dual Israeli-American citizenship, but she was born in Jerusalem, and I assume she uses an American passport since she grew up here and graduated from Harvard although her husband is French. just thniking Zivotosky can not be the only American in this passport conundrum. going to try to stay offline until Sunday. inner peace to all.

- K2K

October 6, 2011 at 7:17pm

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I think you need to try harder, K2K. Your post to me on the other thread was timed at 7:30! :)

- ironyroad

October 6, 2011 at 7:52pm

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....Name another country whose capital isn't the seat of government isn't its capital. Name also a country where there is an international controversy about where its capital should be located... Can't, though there may be some: so what? Part of a footnote from Wiki: ...The UN and most countries do not recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital, taking the position that the final status of Jerusalem is pending future negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. Most countries maintain their embassies in Tel Aviv and its suburbs or suburbs of Jerusalem... All I have been saying against anyone asserting otherwise is that all those who take this cited position are not necessarily anti Semitic, Palestinian fellow travellers, anti Israeli and so on. One can hold that view in good faith and be none of those things, including nowadays the American State Department and Hillary Clinton as appears to be the case in Zivotofsky.

- basman

October 6, 2011 at 7:54pm

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wildboy "do you think that kicking the Waqf out and having the Israeli government take control of the Temple Mount so that Jews can go there and pray..." The issue is not necessarily of kicking out the Waqf in order to permit Jews to pray on the Temple Mount. Rather, the issue is of permitting Jews to pray on parts of the Temple Mount which are not part of either the Dome of the Rock or Al Aqsa complex, particularly in light of the fact that the Temple might not be on the footprint of the Dome of the Rock (see http://www.templemount.org). Doing so probably would cause the Muslim world to go batty for the same reason the Muslim world went batty in 1929 when the Jews sat in front of the Western Wall for Tisha B'Av, it would be another manifestation of the Jews casting off the yoke of the Pact of Umar. "that habitually regards Jewish machinations on the Temple Mount with unreasonable suspicion." I think it's more complex than that. There are two classes of Muslims reacting to Jews' presence on the Temple Mount. One is those who understand what Jewish interests really are on the Mount, but believe that Jews should be subjugated as much as feasible which from their perspective is limited to the Temple Mount. The second group is perhaps agnostic about the subjugation of the Jews, but looks to their religious leaders for guidance as to what the Jews intend, many of whom are from the first group. The first group thus has the means to feed a larger second group the notion that Jews praying on the Temple Mount is a prelude to expelling Muslims from the Mount entirely. A parallel can be seen in the gun control debate in this country. There is a small core of NRA diehards who oppose all restrictions on gun ownership, no matter how limited to apprehending those who would use those guns for crime. By themselves, they would have no effect on national politics. However, there is a much larger group of Americans who want to preserve the right of the law-abiding to possess guns but have no per se opposition to laws making it easier to track guns used in crimes. The NRA thus lumps all gun regulation together so as to convince a larger public that a regulation that is targeted at criminal use of guns is really an attempt take guns away from the law-abiding. Replace the NRA with Muslim clerics, gun owners with the broader Muslim public and gun regulation with Jews on the Temple Mount, and you have a description of why Muslims are so animated by Jews on the Mount.

- sighthnd

October 6, 2011 at 8:30pm

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One item I forgot to mention about the location of the Temple relative to the Dome of the Rock: the only way to determine the location definitively would be through archaeological investigation, which the Waqf prohibits, I would maintain out supremacist convictions.

- sighthnd

October 6, 2011 at 8:35pm

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"All I have been saying against anyone asserting otherwise is that all those who take this cited position are not necessarily anti Semitic,..." Who said they were?

- arnon

October 6, 2011 at 9:15pm

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גמר חתימה טובה to you all too!

- arnon

October 6, 2011 at 9:20pm

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...Who said they were... If you don't want go back over the posts--which is like drinking bath water after the bath--take a guess.

- basman

October 6, 2011 at 9:45pm

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The glory days of TNR...I remember them fondly. It was the brief period after which Mr. Peretz had been mercifully spared of his blog and before Jon Chait had left.

- Jonas

October 6, 2011 at 9:57pm

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Got it, Basman.

- arnon

October 6, 2011 at 10:49pm

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The question of Israel divides genuine liberals from anti-western, anti-American, pro-Islamofascists. I see an internal struggle, an ambivalence toward the defense of western civilization, among liberals on TNR. Often the struggle is within the heart of a single individual. The situation is reminiscent of the split between pro-Soviet and pro-Western liberals in the early Fifties.

- bulbman1066

October 7, 2011 at 12:13am

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I'm with k2k in his quick assessment of this piece: a "pleasant stroll" though the Arab spring. I found it entertaining in a breezy, cheeky way and knowing in its own breezy, cheeky way. I like his reporting on the reporting, mixed with opinion, plenty of it, coming from Peretz of late and, guess what--I like his writing too. He's fun to read. He writes in an accessible way that compels attention. I don't have to agree with him to enjoy his pieces. So I keep scratching my head at all the venom he inspires in some.

- basman

October 7, 2011 at 2:37am

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Tristan is a half witted stupid imbecile. He eats his own shit. And has no arguments since he has no brains. He only gets upset when Barack Hussein Obama is so proud of his Moslem background. Moslems kill kill kill Iraq Pakistan Iran Syria Hezbollah Lebanon Hamas Gaza. He is proud of Tristan and Isolda the opera of Richard Wagner the virulent anti-Semite and the national anthem of nazi Germany. A sorry worm of a human imbecile. He was so taken with the Syrian story and forgot Syria and Hezbollah have thousands of missiles to be used against Israel. he write and reads and he does not know what it is all about. Well half witted Tristan had his brains affected by what he says was Iraq. Now we understand. Tristan go and look for your Isolda. He is an Iranian paid blogger abusing our freedom of speech. Post arguments you vermin. Put your brain in gear when you open your mouth.

- JAIMECHUCH

October 7, 2011 at 10:51am

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Posts 10/07/2011 - 2:37am and 10/07/2011 - 10:51am EDT come the latter right after the former. That, I stress, is their only connection.

- basman

October 7, 2011 at 12:02pm

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"Tristan go and look for your Isolda. He is an Iranian paid blogger abusing our freedom of speech" How do you know that? BTW, the name Tristan predates Wagner and Nazism by quite a few centuries. Are Jews supposed to drop the name "Fagin" because Dickens created a hateful Jew in that name? I don't get the gist of your comment, JAIMECHUCH. You have not said anything except create a lot of noise and heat.

- noga1

October 7, 2011 at 12:45pm

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just noting the Prius family from Japan has occupied the opposite corner of TNR's webpage from the far more imperialistic Shell Oil company of the Netherlands. Will the UN Security Council deal with this colonial revival? ok, both adverts beat the photo of Albert Einstein with tongue.

- K2K

October 9, 2011 at 4:13am

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Well. Tristan and Isolda opera of Richard Wagner the virulent anti-Semite and whose music was the national anthem of nazi Germany are icons of antisemitism. Check. Fagin and Dickens are icons of antisemitism like Shylock in the Merchant of Venice and Shakespeare are. Like George Bertrand Shaw came around and criticized the British for listening too much to Felix Mendelssohn music, maybe it was too Jewish or so happened to be. Seating at a theater performance of the Merchant of Venice when Shylock appeared there were cheers and applause from some members of the audience I whistled loudly against. anti-Semites had to be confronted. Well symbolism is all about. When violinist Isaac Stern firmly stated to never perform in Germany that was a symbol. When Daniel Barenboim is a resident musician in Germany and wants to conduct Wagner in Israel that is a symbol. Daniel Barenboim the pacifist that abhors Israeli military. Although he approved of Israel self defense in Gaza. Then he was stopped by Hamas when he wanted to perform in Gaza later on. Thus these are real symbols for antisemitism. Thus what are paid Iranian bloggers. They are posted to incite and divert free discussion. They insult their adversaries calling them names. The discussion then goes into personal attacks and counter attacks and the true information of jihadists and islamo fascism hatred and violence gets blocked off. When Tristan the Iranian paid blogger fails like many of his predecessors that's disappear, or change their names. Iran has invested their earned petrodollars to spread their terroristic propaganda into the free press, counting on naive well meaning bloggers to not talk about the hatred violence killings that are taking place in the Muslim world. Has Syrian Pakistani Iraqi Egyptian super violence been discussed. Has Iranian thousands of missiles planted in Syria Hezbollah Lebanon Hamas Gaza to be used against Israel been thoroughly discussed? Martin Peretz did mention it. Assad told the Turkish foreign minister that if Syria was attacked a la Libya fashion, he will take 30 minutes and shower Israeli cities with the thousands of missiles Syria has and have Hezbollah do the same from Lebanon. Hamas Gaza has been already showering missiles/rockets at Israeli civilians. What Assad and his Iranian masters don't realize is that Israel will bring enormous destruction to Syria and Lebanon. By the way, Hezbollah has placed the missile launchers in the center of all the villages Lebanon. Then as in Gaza will be civilian casualties, they will run to the UN and will have a Goldstone condemn Israel for war crimes. Do we have clear the scenario? Islamo fascists jihadists clever war strategy. In the meantime life goes on Muslims get their daily doses of hatred agains Israel against the Jews. So Tristan the Iranian paid blogger will call this what? Bigotry and use his favorite word shit, failed to mention camel manure he was assigned to shovel and goes living without taking a shower. It is understandable, water is scarce in the Middle East and only used by the elite. This is the truth and only the truth. And yes Tristan the paid Iranian blogger will mention the meds, all of them mention the same. It is about time they changed. On with the Arab Spring, now we are on the Autumn of Barack Hussein Obama so proud of his Muslim background. Will proceed to hide to be re-elected. Life goes on Gamar Hatimah Tovah Umehonah.

- JAIMECHUCH

October 10, 2011 at 5:01pm

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